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Marine Le Pen loses EU parliament immunity
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Captain Smoker
Member
Come on, this is a hyperbole fallacy.
"Obama supports universal background checks on gun purchases. CommuNazi dictator!"
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Hyperbole
Noone is going to prosecute you if you share this shit on shady forums and noone accuses you.
But if you are the #1 politician in polls and share this stuff on Twitter to millions of people chances are you are fucked if there is a law like this.
It's not like she didn't do "worse" stuff like the story with the EU money.
BossDarkseid
Member
Elfotografoalocado
Banned
The fact that US politics are a hyperbole circus full of lies where fallacy and treason makes you win doesn't mean that it's the same everywhere.
The EU Parliament has a rule where if you use the kind of spurious arguments she uses, you lose inmunity. If she weren't a prosecuted criminal nothing would happen to her. The reason we are happy is, well, she is. (A prosecuted criminal)
Btw, nobody uses Holocaust images in EU politics.
She would be banned on this forum the first day, the EU Parliament will not protect a Nazi from prosecution.
BossDarkseid
Member
Almost anything would do that. Look at Jeff Sessions today. WH admits he talked to the Russians and Trump supporters decry it as fake news. Also she either gets to be subject to the same laws as everone else or she becomes part of the establishment she professes to hate so much. :/
they could see it like that surely, but she broke the law. There is no arguing about it and she now gets prosecuted.
MEP immunity is waived consistently.
Parliamentary immunity exists to protect against politically motivated prosecution, not for anything else.
Nester99
Member
Yeah. Don't know why this is really being reported on, it's not shocking or out of the order. Parliament votes on immunity procedures like this one all the time, and usually it is indeed waived so that national investigations can continue.
It will be voted on as well: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/oeil/popups/ficheprocedure.do?reference=2017/2021(IMM)&l=en (not much info)
Onlinehero
Member
So some groups are or were? Explain that again.
Oh wait, you're a troll, nevermind.
TatteredHat
Member
France has hate speech laws
Le Pen broke hate speech laws.
Le Pen hides behind immunity to avoid being prosecuted for breaking hate speech laws.
Le Pen's immunity gets revoked.
Seems perfectly reasonable, it's not some sort of "leftist conspiracy" of whatever the fuck people are calling it.
Le Pen broke hate speech laws.
Le Pen hides behind immunity to avoid being prosecuted for breaking hate speech laws.
Le Pen's immunity gets revoked.
Seems perfectly reasonable, it's not some sort of "leftist conspiracy" of whatever the fuck people are calling it.
Riposte
Member
Jesus. And people are trying to make free speech look stupid.
Muffin1611
Banned
Well, American free speech is pretty stupid.
That French law isn't really good either though.
Alx
Member
It's a limit on the maximum she could face, not what is expected. 3 years (not five) and 75k would be what a true ISIS propagandist would get, in her case she would probably get less, or even could leave free of charge.
The Spoony Hou
Member
I'm sorry but you're the bigot here. Implying there's an overlap between immigrants and ISIS only generates more hate against innocent immigrants.
Yes all that but it's still a bad move, the best calculated move should have been after the elections which by then she would be politically dead nor in any position to make much noise. That's how they should have done it from where I'm standing
.Orniletter
Banned
Lock her up ! Lock her up !
(For real, she's a disgusting human being and a gigantic threat to Europe)
(For real, she's a disgusting human being and a gigantic threat to Europe)
John Kowalski
Banned
Yo parliamentary immunity is dubious at best
Like always, 3 years is purely theoric and it's reserved to the most extreme cases. There is 0 chance she will be condamned to any jail time in this particular case.
If this has been done before as seems to be the case acc to posters including for things like speeding tickets I'm fine . If this were a complete one off I may have had more questions.
However how does this immunity thing work then if it can be revoked ? Like what's the point ? Isn't immunity supposed to be like immunity ? Or is this revoked under very special conditions (eg request by judges / eu vote as in this case ?) obviously the second part is more rethorical/ a technical point but I'm wording if immunity can be revoked easily why offer it ? Or I guess maybe rename it conditional immunity ? Eu political types can maybe shed some light on how this works in most cases ? Or is the law to protect persecution in the persons non native eu country eg french mep being immune to prosecution in Germany ?
However how does this immunity thing work then if it can be revoked ? Like what's the point ? Isn't immunity supposed to be like immunity ? Or is this revoked under very special conditions (eg request by judges / eu vote as in this case ?) obviously the second part is more rethorical/ a technical point but I'm wording if immunity can be revoked easily why offer it ? Or I guess maybe rename it conditional immunity ? Eu political types can maybe shed some light on how this works in most cases ? Or is the law to protect persecution in the persons non native eu country eg french mep being immune to prosecution in Germany ?
Just to be clear because it seems it hasn't be said on the topic, the problem here is she made this explicit pictures viewable for minors without any warning or protection:
Cette procédure s'appuie sur l'article 227-24 du Code pénal, qui dit que le fait «de diffuser (...) un message à caractère violent, incitant au terrorisme, pornographique ou de nature à porter gravement atteinte à la dignité humaine ou à inciter des mineurs à se livrer à des jeux les mettant physiquement en danger, soit de faire commerce d'un tel message, est puni de trois ans d'emprisonnement et de 75.000 euros d'amende lorsque ce message est susceptible d'être vu ou perçu par un mineur
This procedure is based on article 227-24 of the Penal Code, which states that "disseminating ... a message of a violent nature, inciting to terrorism, pornographic or of a nature that seriously undermines the dignity or to incite minors to engage in physically endangering games or to trade in such a message, shall be punished by three years' imprisonment and a fine of EUR 75,000 when that message is likely to be seen or perceived by a minor.
Basically you can show a graphic picture as long as you do the necessary to make it not easily available to a young audience.
Any of you going to explain why or nah?
It's more like a safeguard to deter countries from unduly meddling with MEPs, and thus, by extension, the European Parliament.
Basically, it's an interlocking procedure where both the country in question and the EU get to have a say. If a country determines that a MEP has committed a crime as per local law, they are required to request for the MEP's immunity to be lifted - and the EU can block that request if it thinks it is a politically motivated accusation, and thus protect the MEP in question. Otherwise, when the case is clearcut - such as brazenly breaking a law or aforementioned speeding tickets - they can just quickly agree and go along their merry way.
Here's a kinda barebones Q&A on the European Parliament subdomain of Europa.eu
Here's some legalese on the issue from the same subdomain.
I posted a Google link on the last page that links to these things. They explain in detail how it works. But basically it is to ensure that nobody can be sued for what they have as political opinions.
The immunity is also different depending on the country. The immunity for Le Pen goes as far as the immunity she would have in the French Parliament.
Bruh we think the world revolves around us and our view of things. This happens in a lot of threads about the EU in general.
ValkyrUser
Member
Thank you for posting this. Makes far more sense now.
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