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Marine Le Pen loses EU parliament immunity
- Thread starter w3bba
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Spiritwalker
Member
Good. Le Pen is a dangerous racist who needs to be stopped.
Gun Animal
Member
EXACTLY
Seldomly Jambon
Member
Hahaha perfect 👌
It's a law to prevent utilizing violent content for political gain. I fail to see how that is "terrible" in any way.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Well this thread got even more interesting really quickly.
The EU can't persecute anyone, courts from different countries can.
And there are limits to freedom of speech, including stuff like hate speech or holocaust denial for example.
Edit: apparently this isn't a French law but a EU parlement rule regarding its members. What she is being persecuted in France is for using EU funds for something illegal I think.
Gun Animal
Member
would a leftist member of the EU parliament lose their immunity for retweeting graphic holocaust photos?
Fuck free speech, I hope we start enforcing the Communist Control Act again.
I'm sorry, are you suggesting immigrant and refugee groups belong to ISIS?
Also, supporting bigotry against ISIS, lol that's not a thing.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Please note that she's only losing her parliament immunity for this particular case and it has nothing to do with the FN fund misappropriation case.
Le Pen just loves to stir shit.
Le Pen just loves to stir shit.
Captain Smoker
Member
From an older article:
https://news.vice.com/article/marin...for-tweeting-photos-of-islamic-state-killings
This is the legislation we are talking about: https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affi...Texte=LEGITEXT000006070719&dateTexte=20151217
Section 3 ter : De l'enregistrement et de la diffusion d'images de violence
Article 222-33-3 En savoir plus sur cet article...
Modifié par LOI n°2014-873 du 4 août 2014 - art. 43
Est constitutif d'un acte de complicité des atteintes volontaires à l'intégrité de la personne prévues par les articles 222-1 à 222-14-1 et 222-23 à 222-31 et 222-33 et est puni des peines prévues par ces articles le fait d'enregistrer sciemment, par quelque moyen que ce soit, sur tout support que ce soit, des images relatives à la commission de ces infractions.
Le fait de diffuser l'enregistrement de telles images est puni de cinq ans d'emprisonnement et de 75 000 euros d'amende.
Le présent article n'est pas applicable lorsque l'enregistrement ou la diffusion résulte de l'exercice normal d'une profession ayant pour objet d'informer le public ou est réalisé afin de servir de preuve en justice.
Google Translate:
Section 3b: Recording and dissemination of images of violence
Article 222-33-3 More about this article ...
Amended by LOI No. 2014-873 of 4 August 2014 - Art. 43
Constitutes an act of complicity in the voluntary assaults on the integrity of the person provided for in articles 222-1 to 222-14-1 and 222-23 to 222-31 and 222-33 and is punishable by the penalties provided for by These articles shall knowingly register, by any means, on any medium whatsoever, images relating to the commission of these offenses.
Disseminating the recording of such images is punishable by five years' imprisonment and a fine of 75,000 euros.
This Article shall not apply where the recording or broadcasting is the result of the normal exercise of a profession for the purpose of informing the public or is carried out in order to serve as legal evidence.
Welcome to every thread about european politics ever.
Sickboy007
Member
If the parliament votes for it, sure.
Parliamentary immunity is not a right, it's a privilege.
Gun Animal
Member
Wow, this thread gone to places very quickly oO
I think the Immunity is just for the tweets, and that she can be proseccuted for those. Retweeting the images can be connected to supporting ISIS, but more so promitng violence on a public platform. Something that is prohibited for elected officials.
If i get it from german sources correctly the vote was initiated by a request from the french judical system. (Source)
Edit:
Thanks for that! Couldnt find the right legal grounds (and i dont speak/understand french)
I think the Immunity is just for the tweets, and that she can be proseccuted for those. Retweeting the images can be connected to supporting ISIS, but more so promitng violence on a public platform. Something that is prohibited for elected officials.
If i get it from german sources correctly the vote was initiated by a request from the french judical system. (Source)
Edit:
Thanks for that! Couldnt find the right legal grounds (and i dont speak/understand french)
Lol at the idea of people using logic along the lines of "muh rights!" to defend her. Free speech obviously has limits; some of them are defamation, slander, libel. Free speech pursued to the full extent of possible stupidity is what has lead to "fake news" and "alternative facts" entering our collective lexicon. Using graphic imagery to fuel negative sentiments towards a large group of people that incidentally happen to be the same colour or from the same country is transparent and disgusting.
Alx
Member
Hm, I wasn't too sure about the relevance of the accusation, but presented that way it makes sense : publishing a capture of an act of violence can be seen as being accomplice to it. I guess it also gives her enough arguments to wiggle out of the accusation, since she clearly wasn't supporting the perpetrators of the act, but criticizing them.
BossDarkseid
Member
So your entire point seems to be that you think some immigrants support ISIS and that you don't believe the EU would do the same to a more left-leaning politician?
It's also a problem that she used ISIS propaganda pics.
But yeah, once again.
- French law states you cannot post violent or terrorism-inciting images (with certain caveats and so on, that's really just the most basic reading of the law)
- Le Pen broke that law, and when an investigation started she stated that she can't be interrogated by French judges because Fuck you, I'm a MEP.
- French judges promptly asked the EU to remove that obstacle to allow for the case to continue.
- EU complied, which could be considered a formality as it has happened before, particularly to her, and (likely again) to little effect. National law trumps EU interests in that regard, as a few MEP have found out in the past. For example, some Brit got slapped with a juicy fine for slander a while ago and tried to hide behind her MEPdom, which didn't work either.
There is a Polish MEP from the EPP who lost his immunity over a speeding offense. The parliament respects the rule of law.
Sgt. Kabukiman
Banned
Time for Danny Glover to do us all a favor.
She has so many cases it can become confusing.
She was being sued by French judges for her tweeting of beheadings, who asked the European parliament to revoke her immunity for that specific case so that they can indict her. The law about publishing gruesome content is French law that applies to every French people and anyone on French soil during the act.
Other French judges are trying to pin her for fictional work, which imo is much more important in regards to the Presidential election. She is also protected by her immunity, which hasn't been revoked for that case.
She was being sued by French judges for her tweeting of beheadings, who asked the European parliament to revoke her immunity for that specific case so that they can indict her. The law about publishing gruesome content is French law that applies to every French people and anyone on French soil during the act.
Other French judges are trying to pin her for fictional work, which imo is much more important in regards to the Presidential election. She is also protected by her immunity, which hasn't been revoked for that case.
Gun Animal
Member
Alx
Member
Which is quite ironic when Le Pen is all about "getting our national authority back", but then hides behind her European MP status when same authority is asking to see her.
Muffin1611
Banned
How the fuck can you be bigoted against a terror organization? The hell are you getting at?
Camp Freddie
Member
It is a French law. A quick google shows that only professional journalists are allowed to publish violent material.
Under French law, the maximum penalty for distributing violent images is three years in prison and a fine of up to 75,000.
The EU allows MEPs to claim immunity to national slander/libel/censorship laws under some sort of parliamentary privilege. But it's not guaranteed and the immunity can be revoked or denied.
Apparently, it was a law designed to stop 'happy slapping'.
It seems like a shitty law, since violent images seem poorly defined. But the French legal system is very different to the UK/USA so I'm not sure how it works. I think judges get more leeway and decisions don't set precedents due to the civil law system there.
But defending Le Penn from a poorly-worded law is not a hill I'm going to die on, especially when her actions in this case are absolutely abhorrent (spreading Daesh propaganda in a twitter tantrum, to show that the National Front is not like Daesh?). When they came for the fascists, I said karma is a bitch.
Under French law, the maximum penalty for distributing violent images is three years in prison and a fine of up to 75,000.
The EU allows MEPs to claim immunity to national slander/libel/censorship laws under some sort of parliamentary privilege. But it's not guaranteed and the immunity can be revoked or denied.
Apparently, it was a law designed to stop 'happy slapping'.
It seems like a shitty law, since violent images seem poorly defined. But the French legal system is very different to the UK/USA so I'm not sure how it works. I think judges get more leeway and decisions don't set precedents due to the civil law system there.
But defending Le Penn from a poorly-worded law is not a hill I'm going to die on, especially when her actions in this case are absolutely abhorrent (spreading Daesh propaganda in a twitter tantrum, to show that the National Front is not like Daesh?). When they came for the fascists, I said karma is a bitch.
There is also nothing political about allowing people to stand trial for their offenses. It is just that by these people's own choice that a lot of these waivers had to be given to FN members that keep breaking who seem to think they could get away with it. They're even Googleable: Google
Neither is spreading graphic images of violence. The MEPs are just respecting french law
Some white people are members of the KKK, therefore it's cool to be a dick to all white people.
Some Christians bomb abortion clinics, therefore it's cool to hate on all Christians.
You see why even though "some" (the vast, vast, vast, vast minority) of refugees and immigrants are ISIS agents, it's not cool to hate on refugees because of that???
walking fiend
Member
Why do I sniff antisemitism?
Ragnar Blackmane
Member
As long as it keeps Le Pen from taking power and buries her and her Putin funded ultra-nationalist anti-EU and anti-Islam Front National under some mud I don't care how inoffensive some people think the material in question is (note: according to French law it's serious enough that a judge requested revocation of parliamentary immunity so charges can be pressed).
Her father (who was pretty much a literal Nazi and proven atisimitic Holocaust denier) and his influence on his daughter and the Front Nationale should have done that years ago, but I'll take this. Hopefully Anti-Trump sentiment and hopefully common sense among the electorate will do the rest.
Her father (who was pretty much a literal Nazi and proven atisimitic Holocaust denier) and his influence on his daughter and the Front Nationale should have done that years ago, but I'll take this. Hopefully Anti-Trump sentiment and hopefully common sense among the electorate will do the rest.
Ain't that the truth, heh. Pushing for Frexit but trying to abuse immunity as a member of the European Parliament.Which is quite ironic when Le Pen is all about "getting our national authority back", but then hides behind her European MP status when same authority is asking to see her.
Write a letter to the French Departement of Justice and Supreme Court then, it's part of French law and what she did is a punishable offense and it has been long before her tweets, this is not some conspiracy to get her out of the election even if some people would like to think that.
Starfish_Oxide
Member
This really smells of a targeted technicality to get her out of the French governmental elections.
Talk about a flimsy law. Another win for democracy.
Talk about a flimsy law. Another win for democracy.
Captain Smoker
Member
It's not that flimsy if you think about it and it wasn't invented for Le Pen.
Why the fuck would she share this shit anyway?
If you wan't to see IS propaganda videos, just google it.
Even Journalists and news agencies who are allowed to share this stuff usually blur the graphic part of the videos and images.
I'll quote it again:
This is the legislation we are talking about: https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affi...Texte=LEGITEXT000006070719&dateTexte=20151217
Section 3 ter : De l'enregistrement et de la diffusion d'images de violence
Article 222-33-3 En savoir plus sur cet article...
Modifié par LOI n°2014-873 du 4 août 2014 - art. 43
Est constitutif d'un acte de complicité des atteintes volontaires à l'intégrité de la personne prévues par les articles 222-1 à 222-14-1 et 222-23 à 222-31 et 222-33 et est puni des peines prévues par ces articles le fait d'enregistrer sciemment, par quelque moyen que ce soit, sur tout support que ce soit, des images relatives à la commission de ces infractions.
Le fait de diffuser l'enregistrement de telles images est puni de cinq ans d'emprisonnement et de 75 000 euros d'amende.
Le présent article n'est pas applicable lorsque l'enregistrement ou la diffusion résulte de l'exercice normal d'une profession ayant pour objet d'informer le public ou est réalisé afin de servir de preuve en justice.
Google Translate:
Section 3b: Recording and dissemination of images of violence
Article 222-33-3 More about this article ...
Amended by LOI No. 2014-873 of 4 August 2014 - Art. 43
Constitutes an act of complicity in the voluntary assaults on the integrity of the person provided for in articles 222-1 to 222-14-1 and 222-23 to 222-31 and 222-33 and is punishable by the penalties provided for by These articles shall knowingly register, by any means, on any medium whatsoever, images relating to the commission of these offenses.
Disseminating the recording of such images is punishable by five years' imprisonment and a fine of 75,000 euros.
This Article shall not apply where the recording or broadcasting is the result of the normal exercise of a profession for the purpose of informing the public or is carried out in order to serve as legal evidence.
Mr. Giggles
Member
Yeesh, tweeting beheadings?! Wtf, nobody wanna see that shit.
Palette Swap
Member
They haven't. People are still benefiting from safety nets that come from our idea of solidarity, they're still free and have a free press, they're still under a fair rule of law.
That these all deserve reforms and fine tuning is obvious, but that doesn't mean we should burn it all down to please crooked and incompetent chicken little brown shirts.
Starfish_Oxide
Member
So if I posted an image (do paintings count) of Louis XVI mid-guillotine would it be punishable under this law?
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