Gareth Bale
Member
With respect, I don't think you understand what 'war is a necessary evil' means. It doesn't mean that every war is justified.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Marines urinating on Taliban bodies
- Thread starter Harry Potter
- Start date
- Status
With respect, I don't think you understand what 'war is a necessary evil' means. It doesn't mean that every war is justified.
Agree with you completely. I think a problem today is war has become so tidy for the most part that people have lost the horror and tragic side of what war really means.
War is mans most primal behavior and as a species that has supposedly come so far we so eagerly run back to it.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Well Iraq comes to mind.. Basically every bit of information used to start the war was false...
Pollux
Member
cheststrongwell
my cake, fuck off
Think he means Iraq.
speculawyer
Member
These guys know better. I understand the desire to take out your anger on people that are trying to kill you and you buddies. But they also have to know that such behavior will act as recruiting material for their enemies.
That's a slide from Colin Powell's bogus presentation to the UN about why we needed to invade Iraq.
The entire "yellowcake uranium from Nigeria" and "aluminum tubes for centrifuges" thing should have put people in jail. A lot of people.
speculawyer
Member
src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/Powell_UN_Iraq_presentation,_alleged_Aluminum_Tube_for_Uranium_Enrichment.jpg
Completely unprofessional. They should rightly be charged. For being so fucking dumb and perfoming the act, filming+posting to YouTube. Marines should be better than that.
That said, I don't really give a fuck about those Taliban shitheads. Those who have been sanitized to what war actually is (an ugly, dirty business despite Hollywood glamorization) through media will have indignant outrage. Those who have experienced war and looked at another man with the knowledge that he will do his best to kill you so you better do the same to him will acknowledge this type of shit is one of many outcomes that WILL happen. It has been happening since war was invented and will continue to until it ceases to exist. The shit is not pretty. When violations occur, we should punish those responsible. But if you are suprised by this, you are naive.
That said, I don't really give a fuck about those Taliban shitheads. Those who have been sanitized to what war actually is (an ugly, dirty business despite Hollywood glamorization) through media will have indignant outrage. Those who have experienced war and looked at another man with the knowledge that he will do his best to kill you so you better do the same to him will acknowledge this type of shit is one of many outcomes that WILL happen. It has been happening since war was invented and will continue to until it ceases to exist. The shit is not pretty. When violations occur, we should punish those responsible. But if you are suprised by this, you are naive.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Not all wars are as stupid as Iraq invasion. People often gain independence too, from wars.
At some point a war might be a necessary thing to do since some bloke just too stupid to be persuaded with kind words and nice gesture.
I didn't say that they wouldn't use it. Just that it wouldn't be that great. It wouldn't exactly inspire me. It wasn't nonsense, it was irony.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
With respect I know exactly what the term entitles and I can agree that some wars are a necessary evil...even some actions such as Hiroshima can be view and justified as such...
I majored in history and have spent a large chunk of my life studying the Pacific front so I don't say these things without a fair amout of academic exposure to it..
Joel Was Right
If you smell burning, it's probably the generators acting up. Report it anyway.
Wonder how those who say they don't care would feel if this footage were to be replayed on Middle East television
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Agreed. But it is still the lowest form of human behavior no matter how necessary it is at times...
NullPointer
Member
I'd also throw in our invasion of Panama, among others.
Pollux
Member
While true, the overall goal was to create a stable democracy in the ME with the idea that this would increase American security. International politics of which war is an extension is not based on a hypothetical moral order derived from some sense of justice, but rather from nation-states competing for power and the furtherance of their national interests in the global arena.
With that in mind, the Iraq war and the goal to create a democracy in the ME was something that would have made the US more secure and provided a boost to US interests in the region if it had been successful; from the point of view it doesn't matter if Bush lied to start the war, the war was still legitimate from an American POV since it's end goal was to further American interests.
I am against all religious fundamentalists including Taliban. Also, I can comprehend the rage these soldiers feel against them as they are forced to fight these people and this could be a way to release it. But there are rules even in war created by humans for the sake of perceived civility. There are no absolutes, especially in war that we who sit behind the computer or tele or radio etc and watch others fight for our sake. However, as aforementioned, lines must be drawn otherwise it becomes a battle on two fronts; and one of them can not be killed by a physical weapon.
Pollux
Member
Ah, my mistake. Iraq is the furthest thing from my mind when it comes to tubes for centrifuges, when I think centrifuge I think Iran. See my above post about Iraq to answer your point (to the one who posted the picture).
Pollux
Member
**shrug. Probably already has been.
cheststrongwell
my cake, fuck off
Man, I don't think you understand the mindset of radicals. They go ape-shit over cartoons.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
Beats me, I don't think most people in the ME care about the Taliban.
On the bright side a lot of them are idiots who can't really fight, so if it leads them to a killbox, Darwin and the world benefit.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
First of all, it is not our job to create a stable democracy in the ME, as noble as the idea is.. And second all of the shitheads we took out these last 6 years or so WE PUT IN to help create that stable democracy...
Gareth Bale
Member
'War is a necessary evil' isn't a justification for every single war. It's implication is that war has to be an option (for various reasons).
an act far more terrible than a soldier peeing on a body (though that's unacceptable too).
DR2K
Banned
Wish I could say I gave a shit about the Taliban. They're pretty low on the human scale, you know blowing girls schools up and all, so piss away.
We send these guys to kill, murder, etc. . . in the name of our country. So are they being punished because of the "desecration" or because it isn't politically correct to do so?
We send these guys to kill, murder, etc. . . in the name of our country. So are they being punished because of the "desecration" or because it isn't politically correct to do so?
tl;dr : it's okay to kill innocent people in the name of american economical interests
Witchfinder General
punched Wheelchair Mike
I know the US is planning to pull out of Afghanistan but things like this only feeds into anti-foreign forces sentiment, helps protect the Taliban and make recruitment for them easier and makes an already volatile situation worse.
This is hardly helping with the "hearts and minds" approach.
This is hardly helping with the "hearts and minds" approach.
cheststrongwell
my cake, fuck off
You don't have to know how to fight to strap a bomb on and blow up some cafe.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Yes.. I never stated otherwise. Like I said I understand the use of the term. People often hide behind it to justify wars, not saying you are doing that now.. And that doesn't make war any less disgusting or foul.. It is still the lowest form of human behavior
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Eh, I disagree. I really think for a terrorist recruiter this kind of video from the scale of 0-10 this video is a fifteen. A godsend.
And you shouldn't compare what you might think to what they might think. It's not like any soon-to-be terrorist has the same upbringing as you.
And hell, I can even imagine a filthy rich middle eastern bloke sitting in his penthouse in Burj-Al-Khalifa in Dubai might get upset by this... imagine those who are living under the dusts or war on their daily life might think...
Although at this point I think we are going circles with this so I am just going to stop.
But a lot of people that seek to harm others will see a lot of benefit from the existence of this kind of video.
manos: The hans of fate said:
These kind of comments, for me personally, are very disheartening, because they are completely dismissive about all the sad and very unfortunate circumstances that often surround those who might not have any other choice but to comply when they are picking up guns or strapping a belt full of explosives on their clothing.
We go apeshit over symbols. It's like a mirror.
Joel Was Right
If you smell burning, it's probably the generators acting up. Report it anyway.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Yep. I would definitely love to hang out with people who would pee on dead bodies. I mean in terms of mental health, it's no different than teabagging in Halo, amirite?!
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
So can the people in Iraq vote in free elections today? Yes or no?
Pollux
Member
1. But it's in our interest to have another stable democracy, it doesn't matter if the idea is noble or not.
2. Just goes to show that we failed.
Stop looking at war and foreign policy through a lens of morality and look at the actions of states as ways to further their interests.
Take the bombings of Iranian scientists, we can all probably agree that Israel and the USA are behind that. No evidence but it does make sense. It's highly illegal to assassinate foreign nationals, but it's in Israel's interest (from their POV) that Iran does not gain the capability to build a bomb, so in Israel's mind the targeted killings of Iranian scientists is justified.
In Iran's mind it is in their best interest to get a stable nuclear program up and running since they look around, see North Korea, and realize that if they can get a bomb then the USA and other Western powers will leave them alone and it will give their government a sense of legitimacy. While from the US POV it's in OUR interest for Iran to not get a nuclear capability since that means that another theocracy survives in the ME. A non-nuclear Iran, in the mind of the US, is an Iran which is still potentially able to be the victim of a regime change through economic sanctions or other methods.
Nobody is right in international relations, it's just state-actors trying to further/protect their interests. The US has more power, hard and soft, than anyone else in the world - especially Iran - thus while it may not be morally right to fuck over the Iranian people in order to destroy their economy to hopefully institute a regime change of a regime the US put into power, it's in the US (perceived) interest to do so.
1. They shouldn't done it
2. If they are actually taliban, this shouldn't be blown into such a big deal. I don't really care too much.
3. If they are civilians, that's a whole different story.
I'll bet worse things happened in WW1 and 2, but now we live in a world of internet so we get to see these types of things ourselves.
2. If they are actually taliban, this shouldn't be blown into such a big deal. I don't really care too much.
3. If they are civilians, that's a whole different story.
I'll bet worse things happened in WW1 and 2, but now we live in a world of internet so we get to see these types of things ourselves.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
Eh, look up Japanese Skull and Life Magazine, you didn't even need the internet then.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Gareth Bale
Member
Ok. When you say war is the lowest form of human behaviour, how do you apply that to the actions of the Allied nations in WWII?
NullPointer
Member
But no problem with the people who blow heads off from half a mile away for a living? OK.
Guess I didn't realize piss was so important a substance.
Do you want to know what many of those allied troops did to the enemy? Both alive and dead? And what the Axis did to allied troops?
cheststrongwell
my cake, fuck off
I've seen a lot more murderous apeshitting from Islamic fundies these last 10 years than from anyone else.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Did I say that? Stop putting words in my mouth.
Joel Was Right
If you smell burning, it's probably the generators acting up. Report it anyway.
Do us both a favour and don't talk about Iraq with me again, Manos. We don't know each other so lets avoid developing a dislike for one another based on politics
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
When Fiat Currencies fail people will need a real value of wealth to survive!
Can you answer the question?
iraq is worse off today than it was under saddam hussein - yes or no?
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
No. Is security better than the Freedom to vote and assemble? Yes or No?
Gareth Bale
Member
Completely missing the point of my question.
NullPointer
Member
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
That's because Islam is the 'face of the enemy' right now.
Wonder who will be next. Chinese? Or maybe the Russians will return to its lost crown someday.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
1) It's in any countries best interest to have lapdogs bow to them..
2) We failed and thousands and thousands of people have died because of our meddling... Very little of it can be classified as a necessary evil
Somebody has to... I am not some tree hugging zealot but I do think that wars have lost all concern for human life.
I fully understand the reasoning for a lot of things that have happened in the middle east but just because the US MIGHT gain something from doesn't make it a necessary evil
- Status
Similar threads
- Poll