With all due respect what the hell does that have to do with the topic?
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Mario 64 and FF7; two revolutionary games, which shaped/impacted the industry more?
- Thread starter enigmatic_alex44
- Start date
With all due respect what the hell does that have to do with the topic?
MAX PAYMENT
Member
I'm having a hard time figuring out what ff7 revolutionized and what Mario 64 didn't revolutionize.
The innovations of SM64 is taken for granted nowadays because they've been featured in many games since.
What the fuck are you on about?
We can say FF7 was the first "AAA" game. Huge budget, cinematic affair. FF7 had a massive influence on popularizing JRPGs.
Are we talking about influential in solely gameplay mechanics or are we talking about influential on what is going on in the industry?
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Well, sure, we can say that, just like we can say Halo invented the FPS.
doesn't make it any more true.
Just like it doesn't make it true that Mario 3d is the 'father of 3d gaming' when Jumping Flash existed
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Have you actually played either Mario 64 or Jumping Flash?
This is probably the best response.
Yeah I have. Have you? How is Jumping Flash not a 3d platformer?
WHAT THE FUCK!?
Bjomesphat
Banned
So GAF, who's going to break it to him first?
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Its a 3D platformer in the same way that the crate jumping parts of Half Life are a 3D platformer, except HL has a fully analogue camera.
Like, if you literally cannot see the difference in control systems between jumping flash and mario 64 and how one makes use of 3D space in a different way than the other, there is nothing to be said to you.
Break what to me? This fantasy that Mario 64 is somehow the first 3d platformer when it's not? If you want to say it's the most influential 3d platformer, that's fine... but to say it's the 'father of 3d platforming' as if it created the created the 3d platform genre is an utter falsehood. By that logic, FF7 is the 'father of the jrpg' because it immensely popularized the genre
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Okay, lets trace the lineage;
HLs shitty parts that everyone hates -> Jumping Flash -> Mirrors Edge
Mario 64 -> every 3D third person game ever created
Sgt.Pepper
Banned
Goldeneye 64 owes a lot to Mario 64.
This is actually a good point when I think about it. I was thinking too generally of just platformers but pretty much any game that works in 3D owes itself to Mario 64, analog controls, open world, non-linearity, the way the camera rotates to get the best angle etc. And there was a whole decade before this "cinematic" period kicked in. I'm changing to Mario.
Damn the mid to late 90s were so good, it's making my brain fight itself.
He is not wrong jumping flash was released before Mario 64 and was a 3d platformer
or do you mean something else?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyQI10yfl1E
Hmmm. Here is the protagonist of Jumping Flash jumping on enemies, taking massive leaps in 3d space on various platforms and collecting 'collectables' before exiting the stage. Show me how that is in any way similar to Half-Life.
Bjomesphat
Banned
Well, the thread is about influence in the industry, not the first 3D platformer.
And to be the father of something, that implies you had offspring. Jumping Flash spawned no other entities but Jumping Flash 2 and 3. No one looked at Jumping Flash and said, "let's copy that!"
Eh, goldeneye owes more to the FPS's released beforehand.
You're both splitting hairs here. You know goddamn well what he meant by "father of platforming". Trying to downplay Mario 64 just make both of you seem desperate.
fvng said:
Good think Mario 64 influenced more than platformers then, like GTA III and pretty much every single 3D game where you use the analog stick. And lol at your post history. It begs the question, have you ever played Mario 64?
Bjomesphat
Banned
And there were platformers before Super Mario Bros. Just because something came first, doesn't make that something the father of everything that came after.
Calamari41
41 > 38
Mario 64, easily.
Ocarina of Time was built off of the Mario 64 engine, and Ocarina of Time brought us Z-Targeting. What did Final Fantasy 7 bring about, even indirectly, that has been as big to the industry as Z-Targeting? Cutscenes? Come on now.
Ocarina of Time was built off of the Mario 64 engine, and Ocarina of Time brought us Z-Targeting. What did Final Fantasy 7 bring about, even indirectly, that has been as big to the industry as Z-Targeting? Cutscenes? Come on now.
fvng
Member
We are talking about Mario 64 not Zelda. Stay on topic
You literally just said Mario 64 had a bigger impact because Zelda pioneered Z targeting, lol. Ok then
Uncle Rupee
Banned
FF7 shaped the industry way more.
Its announcement sent shockwaves through the industry, and made Playstation a legitimate platform. Lots of Nintendo fans bought a Playstation instead of an N64 just to play this game.
Its announcement sent shockwaves through the industry, and made Playstation a legitimate platform. Lots of Nintendo fans bought a Playstation instead of an N64 just to play this game.
fvng
Member
Absolutely true. In fact this may be the most critical effect of FF7. It gave legitimacy to a competitor of Nintendo and Nintendo has been second or third place ever since.
IronicSonic
Member
This. Nothing revolutionary en FF VII beside it's production values. Mario 64 and Tomb Raider set the blueprint of all 3D gaming in one way or another, basically
I do believe Mario 64 sold more than FF7. Not only that, RPGs are most definitely not a more popular genre than almost every other genre with 3D movement.
Calamari41
41 > 38
Zelda was built off of Mario 64. Without 64 there is no Ocarina.
The topic is about how influential a game is to the industry. I consider "having the game that invented Z Targeting built directly off of your bones" to be pretty influential.
If "FF7 inspired the Playstation to be a success" counts, then so does my point. I mean, how is this question answerable if you can't talk about the games that were inspired/impacted by Mario 64 or FF7?
Bjomesphat
Banned
Jumping Flash is the father of Half Life confirmed.
Does the Wii not count?
If we are talking about the gameplay evolution and setting the road for almost all 3D games that would follow, mario 64 is the obvious answer since it defined a lot of things that haven't changed a lot since then.
The only thing ff7 did that was unheard of is the marketing and the budget that it had used and nothing else. Cutscenes and that kind of gameplay were already set in stone but noone marketed it that much and this is the only reason ff7 was such an important product.
Looking back though they were both very important products, but regarding the game industry itself mario is the king
The only thing ff7 did that was unheard of is the marketing and the budget that it had used and nothing else. Cutscenes and that kind of gameplay were already set in stone but noone marketed it that much and this is the only reason ff7 was such an important product.
Looking back though they were both very important products, but regarding the game industry itself mario is the king
Hey now you realize it finally now people can finally get why FF6 doesnt really matter to the west thx to FF7. FF7 fathered jrpgs in the west so what you say is true for both games but you guys pretend a revolution only counts for one game but not the other.
Does that make MuuMuus the original scientists?
This answer is all that needs to be said. Mario 64 basically invented 3D platforming. Most games set in 3D worlds owe some debt to Mario 64. FFVII is Final Fantasy. IMHO it's not even the best FF game out there.
Do western RPG's really take that much inspiration from Final Fantasy 7? Because when I think of a game like Skyrim, I seem to draw more parallels to Super Mario 64 than FF7.
The Wii never counts.
The Wii never counts.
Pretty amazing seeing posters trying to downplay the importance of Mario 64, I'd like to see what 3D games would be like without it. I can't think of a single game from the PS1 era that had the same level of control and movement that Mario 64 had. Hell, you've got people saying Sunshine and Galaxy don't match up with how Mario controls in 64. To disregard Mario 64 is just foolish.
Mario 64 'invented' 3d platforming as much as FF7 'invented' 3d rpgs. If you say Mario 64 is the most influential 3d platformer, I'd agree. If we're going to call Mario the father of 3d platformers, I guess we can call Sony the 'father' of 3d gaming, due to them pushing and prioritizing 3d at a time when Saturn was 2d focused.
Audioboxer
Member
Both did in their respective fields, that's the only answer you'd get from me.
Mario 64 in platformers.
FF7 in JRPGs.
Mario 64 in platformers.
FF7 in JRPGs.
fvng
Member
So we are now going from saying Mario 64 influenced platformers going forward to any game that had 3D movement?
So much reaching in this thread
Well to be honest no other game that i ever played offered the same amount of freedom and movement like mario 64 did... The closest thing that came to it was prototype but that game was dull. This is a sad thing if you put it in perspective
How did you reach this argument? Holy shit