Support NeoGAF

[SolVanderlyn]

Ok, so, everyone loves Mario RPGs. They're probably one of the most loved spinoff series out there. They're spinoffs with spinoffs of their own, even - Super Paper Mario and Sticker Star take the Paper Mario formula and create their own unique take on the series, with SPM combining RPG elements with traditional Mario platforming and Sticker Star creating a streamlined handheld experience. True, SPM and SS aren't as lauded as the mainline RPGs, and SS gets downright spit upon at times, but it still speaks volumes for Mario RPGs as a whole when they create spinoffs despite already being spinoffs themselves.

Let's look back at each Mario RPG, where it came from, and what it offered:

Super Mario RPG:

A joint effort between Nintendo and Squaresoft, the RPG giant of its time, SMRPG began the unlikely marriage between the red plumber, stats, and storyline. This title introduced the action combat system that every future Mario RPG would build on, requiring timed button presses to attack or defend with more efficiency. Perhaps the most unique aspect of SMRPG is in its ousting of Bowser as the main villain, instead introducing Squaresoft's own gang of baddies: The Smithy Gang, a group of interstellar hooligans bent on conquering the Mushroom Kingdom. While the story was still relatively simple compared to standard RPGs, it really shone in its fusion of the standard "quest to save the world" that grandiose games such as Final Fantasy were known for and the traditional Mario charm of the mainline Mario games. The script relied heavily on humor and a unique brand of quirkiness, but never shunned its purpose to deliver a story centric Mario game: you felt the presence of the Smithy Gang in each area of the Mushroom Kingdom that you visited, and their omnipresence created a sense of urgency that the world needed to be saved. Another staple that SMRPG introduced was the gathering of seven stars, which would later be repeated in Paper Mario and The Thousand Year Door.

Paper Mario:

While it began as Super Mario RPG 2, with incessant promises from Nintendo Power that the graphics "weren't finished yet", Paper Mario eventually embraced its paper aesthetic and created a franchise of its own. Squaresoft had fallen into disagreement with Nintendo for various reasons, so this next entry in the RPG series was left to Intelligent Systems, the developer of the Famicom/Advance Wars and Fire Emblem series. Paper Mario built heavily on its predecessor, but left behind a bit of the standard RPG flair that Square had injected into SMRPG in favor of a more simplistic Mario-esque flavor. Hit points and flower points were drastically scaled down, and the battle system was retooled to accommodate Mario as its primary player, with partner characters being limited to one at a time. This time around, however, partners had uses outside of battle, leading to more emphasis on light puzzle solving than in SMRPG. The biggest change between the two titles was, of course, the graphical style, with Paper Mario abandoning the isometric view for a two dimensional side view. The story was less "epic" and Final Fantasy-esque, but one could argue that it contained much more whimsy and charm as a substitute.

Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door

A direct, by the numbers sequel to Paper Mario 64, TTYD left the Mushroom Kingdom for the unique setting of Rogueport. Unlike the transition from SMRPG -> Paper Mario 64, most things stayed the same from 64 -> TTYD, likely as a result of same name branding and the fact that it kept the same developer this time around. At face value, TTYD is a reskin of PM64, with new areas, plot, and characters. However, if it ain't broke, don't fix it: as seen by the Metacritic link above, TTYD is the most highly rated Mario RPG, with fans singing its praises to the far corners of the internet. TTYD shines in how it refined the 64 formula: it took full advantage of its paper aesthetic, with Mario turning into paper planes, paper boats, and rolls of paper, and benefited also from the boost in hardware from the Gamecube, allowing many characters on screen at a time. TTYD also boasted incredibly creative segments where you would suddenly be placed in the control of the enemy

Spoiler

or so you think, as in the Dooplis scenario

, recreations of classic platforming in the Bowser segments, and entering pipes that led to the backdrop of each area. TTYD may have treaded extremely similar ground as the game that came before it, but its execution left it a beloved entry in the franchise.

Mario and Luigi:

Developed by Alphadream, this was the portable cousin of Paper Mario. Opting for a more straightforward, yet still extremely recognizable and creative 2D sprite style, Mario and Luigi's main attraction was - you guessed it - the spotlight on the Mario Bros, rather than just Mario. The battle system was again an action oriented, timed button pressing affair, only this time it forewent the partner system to focus entirely on Mario and Luigi. Bros attacks and abilities hogged the spotlight in and out of battle, with the Mario Bros working together to spin, roll, and hammer their way across the Beanbean Kingdom. Oh, that's right: the M&L series took us to another new land, with its own race of people, the Beanish, paralleling the Toads, and brought us to uniquely laughter oriented locales. Bowser once again took a role as a supporting character, leaving the spotlight to new villains from the Beanbean Kingdom. Perhaps the biggest treat for fans of SMRPG was the return of Yoko Shimomura as the series composer, lending a similar atmosphere to Mario's first RPG outing. (Sunken Ship theme remix, anyone?)

Mario and Luigi: Partners in Time

Bringing us back (quite literally) to the Mushroom Kingdom, PiT took full advantage of the DS and used its dual screens to offer refinements to Superstar Saga's gameplay. Playing off of the "dual" theme, Mario and Luigi teamed up with baby versions of themselves, with much of the game taking place in the Mushroom Kingdom's past. The alien race of Shroobs took the center role as the main enemy, harkening back to the "group villain" role the Smithy Gang played in SMRPG. PiT made some controversial changes, such as removing the overworld for a point and click world map, but it was by and large a very similar game to Superstar Saga.

Mario and Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story

This is where the M&L series really started to diverge. While it kept its turn based, timed button pressing battle system, BiS forewent the Bros moves established in the first two games and instead gave control over to the King of the Koopas, Bowser himself, for the overworld segments of the game. Bowser fought alone, but was much more powerful than Mario and Luigi combined. As a result, he fought stronger enemies. He also came equipped with his own moveset, entirely unique from either Mario Bro. Bowser also introduced giant battles to the series, creatively using the DS turned on its side for extremely unique and satisfying boss battles. Mario and Luigi were, of course, still central players in the story and in gameplay, but their roles changed signficantly: for a good portion of the game, they remained stuck inside of Bowser, and their gameplay segments played out on a strictly two dimensional plane. Bowser was definitely the star of this game, even if the two Mario Bros were present throughout; he carried the brunt of the story and was in charge of at least 90% of the game's map traversal, with Mario and Luigi only becoming able to retread his steps towards the end of the game.

Mario and Luigi: Dream Team

The first 3DS entry, and perhaps the most polarizing entry in the M&L franchise, Dream Team gives the spotlight back to Mario and Luigi. Well, actually, it mostly gives it to Luigi; the game was released in 2013, Nintendo's Year of Luigi, and gives extra attention to Mario's neglected bro. Taking on a unique dream world mechanic, Dream Team has a normal and dream version of each area of Pi'llo Island. The normal areas function much like those from the first two entries, while the dream worlds were reminiscent of the areas inside of Bowser in BiS, only this time with their own unique dream world gameplay. While the game was incredibly progressive in the sense that each new area introduced a new ability and way to approach the game, it was also derided for its extensive tutorials, which were perhaps a side effect of attempting to cram so much newness into every area. Overall, Dream Team has the most advanced presentation in the M&L series, with gorgeous spritework and a fantastic OST, and is an incredibly innovative entry not only in the RPG spinoff series, but in the Mario franchise as a whole. Its experimental nature leaves it rife with flaws, however, leaving it as highly praised by some as it is lambasted by others.

And then we have the two black sheep.

Super Paper Mario

Released for the Wii as a pseudo-sequel to The Thousand Year Door, Super Paper Mario abandons its RPG heritage for a strong focus on platforming. The text heavy plot, an emphasis on characterization, a quirky setting, and the existence of hit points are all carried over from Paper Mario proper, but gone are the turn based battle system and 3D field maps, replaced with the traditional 2D planes that classic Mario games are known for. While not an RPG in the traditional sense, SPM still features an intricate, chapter based plot, and is also the only instance in the series where Luigi becomes a playable character.

Paper Mario: Sticker Star

Deviating from the series' position as the "console" branch of the Mario RPG series, Intelligent Systems released Sticker Star for the 3DS. Sticker Star heavily relies on stickers as a gameplay mechanic, with each sticker resembling a real world object, such as a pair of scissors. Apparently a victim of a development crisis, Miyamoto himself signficantly turned the tables on the game during the time it was being made. IS was given orders to remove "non-Mario" characters and to make them instantly recognizable faces from the franchise, as well as to de-emphasize the text heavy focus that the series was known for, opting for a game with little to no dialogue, plot, or character interaction. Needless to say, this upset quite a few fans. Nonetheless, many praise the game for its stellar soundtrack and captivating world design.

Having looked at each game, I have to ask:

-Where do you want to see the Mario RPGs, heading forward? Would you like to see a continuation of the series we have now (Mario and Luigi and Paper Mario?) Or would you rather see something entirely new?

-What do you feel was the best representation of the Mario franchise as an RPG? Your answer could be a singular game, or a sub-series as a whole.

-What do you want to see in the next Mario RPG? Yoko Shimomura as its composer? Square's return to the franchise? Handheld or console?

Bonus question:

-What was your favorite segment of any Mario RPG that you played?

Will come back later with my answers.

 

[Magnus]

The Paper Mario aesthetic was a huge turn off for me after the excellence of SMRPG. Square's lack of involvement also showed. I gave the first PM a shot and was so disappointed. I hear they got better and that I should have given them more of a shot, but eh.

I played the first Mario & Luigi (Superstar Saga on the GBA) and was very pleasantly surprised. I can't remember why I didn't press on and finish it. Great game.

I tried Dream Team out last year, hoping it would recapture the first M&L's Magic, but it was just such a bore. Way too much exposition and dialogue for really terrible, uninspired new characters. I fell asleep while playing it. Sold it.

I'd love another game in the vein of the original SMRPG.

 

[Theanine3D]

-Where do you want to see the Mario RPGs, heading forward? Would you like to see a continuation of the series we have now (Mario and Luigi and Paper Mario?) Or would you rather see something entirely new?

Both of these series have gone off the deep end. Ideally I would like to stick around, but get back on track with what made people love them. In Paper Mario that means bringing back partners and more traditional RPG gameplay. Mario & Luigi needs to stop treating the player like they are 5 years old with endless tutorials. Most people playing RPGs are probably older teens and adults anyway. I think these series still have a lot to offer if they just go back to their roots.

-What do you feel was the best representation of the Mario franchise as an RPG? Your answer could be a singular game, or a sub-series as a whole.

Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars. It nailed it in every category I look for in a RPG. While I loved PM64 and enjoyed PM:TTYD along with the first several M&L games, they were all much too focused on humor. SMRPG was much darker in tone (several segments in the game legit scared me when I was a kid) and had more sad moments. This is why I feel SMRPG is a more balanced game than the rest and why I prefer it. I like a Mario RPG that makes me laugh, but I also want something a bit more emotional at times too!

-What do you want to see in the next Mario RPG? Yoko Shimomura as its composer? Square's return to the franchise? Handheld or console?

I want to see a fully 3D Mario RPG with no fixed or overhead camera, with the same production quality as Super Mario Galaxy, and the same level of memorable grandeur as that game. The Paper Mario and M&L series are great, but game technology has advanced immensely since those series were introduced - it's beyond time we got a real 3D Mario RPG. Just imagine what they could do with today's tech if they actually fully took advantage of it.

Yoko Shimomura is a must. But no, keep Square away from Mario games. They can't even handle their own RPG series well anymore. (I'd dig a Silicon Studio Mario RPG though!)

Console RPG please!

-What was your favorite segment of any Mario RPG that you played?

Booster Tower in Super Mario RPG:LOTSS. It was the part of the game with the most laughs for me. I love the antics of the Snifit gang and Booster (hilarious character!)

 

[Skellig Gra]

Just the exact opposite of sticker star please.

 

[whyreggielie]

Go the Paper Mario route and bring it back to the traditional RPG.

 

[Hours Left]

Let's go in the direction of another traditional Paper Mario. I'll drive.

 

[Rockk]

-Where do you want to see the Mario RPGs, heading forward? Would you like to see a continuation of the series we have now (Mario and Luigi and Paper Mario?) Or would you rather see something entirely new?

A traditional Paper Mario game. Honestly was never a big fan of the Mario and Luigi RPGs past Superstar Saga. I still haven't played Dream Team despite owning the special 3DS version.

-What do you feel was the best representation of the Mario franchise as an RPG? Your answer could be a singular game, or a sub-series as a whole.

Thousand Year Door. I really like the first Paper Mario though. Both games are really charming but I feel like the first one has a bit more of a whismical feel to it. But the Thousand Year door has better partners, gameplay, puzzles, and just all around everything. Both are 10/10 games though.

-What do you want to see in the next Mario RPG? Yoko Shimomura as its composer? Square's return to the franchise? Handheld or console?

Console Paper Mario more or less like the first one and Thousand Year Door. I just want one more. Super Paper Mario was good but it wasn't what I wanted. And I haven't even played Sticker Star because it seems to lack a lot of things that made Paper Mario great.

-What was your favorite segment of any Mario RPG that you played?

I love the Peach segments in Paper Mario. It's a really interesting idea of exploring wtf Peach is actually doing when she is kidnapped. It's annoying on repeated playthroughs but I would personally rather have them there then not.

 

[PassiveObserver]

Super Mario RPG is the only one I have fond feelings for.

 

[Xemnas89]

I've always preferred the Mario and Luigi series over Paper Mario so I'd love to see that series stick around. The last game held you're hand to much but the game underneath the hand holding was great I thought. However if we could get a high production console Mario RPG composed by Yoko Shimomura I'd be all over it.

 

[DVG]

I never played super mario rpg but I definitely plan to do it. The first two paper mario games I absolutely LOVE. I haven't played through the first one in many years though but I just recently started again. Super paper mario I also love but I see that as an entry that they tried once and shouldn't do it again, it was more of a one and done kind of thing. Sticker star I absolutely hated. I purchased every mario and luigi game over the summer but only had the time to play the first one which I also loved. Mario RPGs are just so special to me. Bowsers inside story sounds very strange to me with the way they changed the gameplay but I've heard its the best one so I'm not too worried about it. I'd love to see a new paper mario on wii u based off the design of the first two. That would be amazing. I'm also really interested in seeing a mario and luigi title on a console rather than handheld, in a fully 3D environment. If paper mario can make the jump to handheld then so can mario and luigi. And if it can't be that then it would still be interesting to see a fully 3D mario rpg on the console. I hope we'll see that or paper mario soon

 

[Hubbl3]

I don't really care for the Mario & Luigi games or the Paper Mario games, but I would love another Super Mario RPG game done with Captain Toad's graphics engine. I'd also really like for Square-Enix to have no involvement with it.

 

[billy beane]

I've always wanted a Nintendo RPG. I want a Smash Bros. like roster and representation of Nintendo, with Super Mario RPG gameplay and writing. I also like Kingdom Hearts idea of each world being themed as a Disney movie, and this would work perfect for Nintendo games. Hyrule is one world, Zebes another, Eagleland, Corneria, Mushroom Kingdom, etc. Idk maybe it wouldn't work, but it's always been a dream.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

I've always wanted a Nintendo RPG. I want a Smash Bros. like roster and representation of Nintendo, with Super Mario RPG gameplay and writing. I also like Kingdom Hearts idea of each world being themed as a Disney movie, and this would work perfect for Nintendo games. Hyrule is one world, Zebes another, Eagleland, Corneria, Mushroom Kingdom, etc. Idk maybe it wouldn't work, but it's always been a dream.

Nintendo needs to apply the Smash Bros formula to other genres, yes.

My two dream projects are "Nintendo RPG" and "Nintendo Wars" where Nintendo franchises all have armies with hero characters and fight in huge battles with each other.

As far as Mario goes, and this is as someone who adored Super Paper Mario, I'd really just like to get a proper followup to The Thousand Year Door. That ship has probably sailed, however.

 

[Sinople]

It should be noted than Alphadream was established by former Square staff members from the then Osaka team, which developed games like Saga 3, FF USA and... Super Mario RPG.

 

[legacyzero]

There was only one great SMRPG, and that was the original from Squaresoft and Nintendo.

Super Mario RPG is the only one I have fond feelings for.

 

[AzureTranquility95]

The next logical step is a sequel to TTYD. And there's still no Mario RPG on Wii-U. Seems like a good fit. The ultimate Paper Mario RPG, combining the best elements of the previous four games.

Mario & Luigi could receive an entry using the new 3DS features like what happened with DS, but Dream Team was a large enough game that I hope if they do make a second 3DS game, that it's not quite as bloated with tutorials and padding.

I understand Super Mario RPG was a one-time partnership between Nintendo and Square, so it's good that it's gotten re-released on Virtual Console to preserve it. A sequel doesn't really seem necessary with M&L and PM already present. Not sure what a new Mario RPG series could be like though. M&L was made to be for handhelds and Paper Mario for consoles(Sticker Star aside).

 

[lt519]

What a lovely post! My favorite is SMRPG and I think that formula could still do it justice but with a 3D view. Every game has been fantastic (including Super Paper Mario you heathens) up until the 3ds installments, they need to get back to form.

My favorite segment has to be the whole nerd lizard chapter in Super Paper Mario, that whole script was gold.

 

[Krejlooc]

First is still the best and my favorite imo.

 

[Shig]

I do kinda understand where Nintendo was coming from with differentiating Paper Mario from M&L, but it feels like something that should have just been sorted out by spacing releases for both series out and 'taking turns' every 2-3 years, rather than thrusting one of the series into an identity crisis.

If one of the teams has some pent-up ambition during their off years, put them to work on a Zelda RPG, because it's insane that that hasn't been explored. Zelda has had precious little genre-bending experimentation despite a pretty heavy release schedule, and the series' sword-and-sworcery trappings and colorful casts of characters would be perfect for the party-based RPG format.

 

[DylanTackoor]

I just want more thousand year door.

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

I have played them all and all I want is a game like The Thousand Year Door again, it's easily the best easily and one of my top games of all time.

 

[Smashman45]

Always had a lot of fun with the RPGs, even with the weird and less revered ones. I have fond memories within all the 3 series of games. Can't really choose which I prefer.

As of now, going forward, all I really want is a Paper Mario like the first 2 games on the Wii U. While I would love a continuation and further improvement of TTYD's audience system for battles, something different would be fine as well. I understand they want to keep the series fresh, and I enjoyed SPM and SS problems aside, but I feel they should really just improve on the formula had with TTYD.

 

[Ants]

Having looked at each game, I have to ask:

-Where do you want to see the Mario RPGs, heading forward? Would you like to see a continuation of the series we have now (Mario and Luigi and Paper Mario?) Or would you rather see something entirely new?

I would like to see the Paper Mario series continue as they were in TTYD, as I think an overwhelming majority would. Particularly, I enjoyed the really fine-tuned number system of PM1, a little more than TTYD, where power creep threw it somewhat out of whack.

I honestly don't have any strong opinions on the M&L series.

-What do you feel was the best representation of the Mario franchise as an RPG? Your answer could be a singular game, or a sub-series as a whole.

Paper Mario and TTYD blow M&L out of the water, and SPM is a strong entry as well, although it certainly couldn't reasonably be called an RPG, just an action game with RPG elements. M&L definitely has the franchise overall beat for representing Mario as an RPG.

HOWEVER, I think it is important to make a distinction I don't see get a lot of notice. Mario RPG series, specifically Paper Mario and TTYD, are not Mario spin-offs, but Yoshi spin-offs. This distinction is somewhat minor, but I think it's clear when you look at details. Paper Mario borrows a huge number of enemies from Yoshi's Island, like the Bandits, for example. It also has the characteristic of the Yoshi games that I love the most: it is an exploration of physical artistic mediums in a digital one. Yoshi games cover crayon drawings, pop-up books, and crochet, while Paper Mario games cover papercraft and stickers. There's also a huge amount of visual call-outs to Yoshi games in PM. I apologize for the huge wall of text but I'm gonna copy/paste a breakdown I did on another site, because I found it fascinating.

Also, the introduction to the game blew our minds. The reason why is that it is almost shot-for-shot the introduction to Yoshi's Island. I'm gonna lay it out real quick with some screenshots.

We start out with the transition from day/night to night/day, respectively. You begin in the normal world and transition to the special world with an attack by Koopa forces. The game begins with you just going to a party, hobnobbing with the guests, and making your way to Peach for some pleasant alone time. Not unlike the stork, whose job has being going peacefully and uneventfully the whole time.

As we approach Peach (and the conflict with Bowser), we are treated to a sudden change in tone. The music drops in volume and the colors drop in value. This also comes with a lack of funny/goofy writing. All the characters say to you here is basically "Peach is waiting for you up ahead." The aesthetic of the area has become serious and somber. There is no whimsy waiting for you ahead.

So, Mario and Peach exchange words, and it's sweet. Then Bowser comes in and rips Peach's castle out of the ground. Now, we're accompanied by a starry sky as well. Immediately after, we're treated to a hopeless boss battle, and Mario gets cold-clocked right out into the sky. He spins out of control as he descends into the clouds, and drops into a clearing. When he makes it to the ground, he's helpless. A collection of strange beings he's never seen before group around him.

So, we see the inverted day/night transitions in the two games, but that doesn't really mean much. The transition from day to night as you enter the special world of a story is a common element of fiction. But there's more to this.

When Bowser strikes Mario, he spins, just as the stork did before dropping Mario and beginning the descent into adventure.

Mario descends into the clouds and out of sight. In Yoshi's Island it takes this opportunity to introduce Yoshi, but in Paper Mario, you get a similar break in action as the title of the game appears. Very cinematic move on Paper Mario's part, there.

Then comes the biggest aesthetic parallel of both works' intro: the clearing. Mario lands in the clearing completely helpless. He is surrounded by strange beings he's never seen before. They offer their aid on his journey, as well as a purpose.

This clearing is almost identical to the Yoshi's Island one, and the strongest piece of evidence they were trying to call a thematic parallel. The foreground and background have very similar shapes to them (notice the gap in the center foreground, with symmetrical foliage on either side, as well as the hanging canopy in the background; these elements frame the scene). Additionally, Mario is surrounded by friendly, but unfamiliar creatures, willing to aid his quest when they see him in this helpless state (infancy/unconsciousness). They circle him, and protect/rejuvenate him, before he is carried off to adventure.

This is a really strong aesthetic parallel, because Paper Mario and Yoshi's Island are, in my opinion, two of the most cinematic and strongly characterized game in the entire franchise. It's really a statement for Nintendo to, right off the bat, liken Paper Mario to the beloved Yoshi's Island, and I think that statement pays off in spades.

-What do you want to see in the next Mario RPG? Yoko Shimomura as its composer? Square's return to the franchise? Handheld or console?

I think console for sure. It lends itself to designing more extended gameplay sequences, and you can do more impressive things graphically. However, as loved as the games are, I feel like they're too niche to succeed on Wii U so it'll likely end up on 3DS for that reason.

-What was your favorite segment of any Mario RPG that you played?

It's gotta be the Glitz Pit. It allowed for a reasonable pacing of combat:story, and justified a lot of interesting fights. It also was a great place to grind post-chapter. And the wrestling parody was great.

 

[Nekofrog]

I rented Mario RPG when it came out. Kept it for 27 days past its due date much to the anger of my grandparents. It was pretty much my favorite game of all time until I played it a few more times a few years ago and realized how absurdly shallow it is.

Once you get past the initial aesthetic and wow factor of Mario characters in an RPG, it's really a meh game that in my opinion is so loved due to nostalgia.

I skipped Paper Mario 64, played TTYD upon release, and have played it once every two years since. TTYD is truly the best Mario RPG there is, and it's practically a crime that it never got a true sequel. It has only one segment that is meh (Puni Puni chapter), the rest is just amazing environment after amazing environment with impeccable pacing. The Glitz Pitz, the murder mystery on the train, Twilight Town, it's just hit after hit. Couple this with some of the best writing ever to be featured in an RPG, and man. Stellar.

 

[daydream]

Having looked at each game, I have to ask:

-Where do you want to see the Mario RPGs, heading forward? Would you like to see a continuation of the series we have now (Mario and Luigi and Paper Mario?) Or would you rather see something entirely new?

I don't have any particular wishes. Nintendo has done no wrong by the series so far and I trust them to keep it this way. Most importantly, they should never listen to the fans.

-What do you feel was the best representation of the Mario franchise as an RPG? Your answer could be a singular game, or a sub-series as a whole.

I don't think any of the games have been a particularly accurate representation of the Mario franchise, thankfully. They really knock it out of the park with the creativity they pour into every single entry. My favourite is Paper Mario.

-What do you want to see in the next Mario RPG? Yoko Shimomura as its composer? Square's return to the franchise? Handheld or console?

Don't care as long as it's good. Don't think Square is coming back, though.

Bonus question:

-What was your favorite segment of any Mario RPG that you played?

If I had to name one segment, I'd go with the Shy Guy's Toybox chapter from Paper Mario.

 

[cloudstrife]

A new Mario RPG entry for the Wii U using Mario 3D World/Captain Toad's engine, a great story, and no handholding.

 

[Crimsonclaw111]

This thread has really got me wanting to play Super Mario RPG and Paper Mario again.

I'll probably buy the Virtual Console version of each, since one has a dead battery and I'm not sure where the other is...

Thanks op

 

[Gsnap]

Where do I want to see them go?

We need a new one similar to Mario RPG and it needs to look like Captain Toad Treasure Tracker.

That's basically all I want.

 

[Ryouji Gunblade]

Preferably more Super Mario RPG (same mechanics) or more Mario and Luigi (without the attack pieces).

 

[Wreck-It Ralph]

Bowser's Inside Story was my favorite Mario RPG. I want more like that. What I played of Dream Team (the demo) was severely disappointing.

Thousand-Year Door was also great. I'd love to see a true sequel to it. The Paper Mario art style would look amazing in HD.

I also loved Sticker Star, though I wouldn't really call that one an RPG. It's more of an adventure game with turn-based battles. Despite liking the game, though, I hope they don't go that direction again, because I don't know if I could stand the bitching that would ensue.

Oh, and I hope they get whoever did the music for Sticker Star back for the next game. Whatever you think of the game itself, you can't deny that it had great music.

Also the people saying the original SMRPG is the best are nutso. That game feels so ridiculously dated compared to both the Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi games.

 

[princemarth23]

I really want a true sequel to TTYD. Mario and Luigi games are fun, and I didn't completely hate Sticker Star and Super Paper Mario, but TTYD just worked for me on so many levels and I want more of it.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

Should be noted that.

1. Miyamoto was the producer during conception of the franchise.
2. Miyamoto also had EAD develop some of the graphics on the first Paper Mario.
3. Vanpool made up 50% of the staff on Paper Mario: Sticker Star.

 

[samn]

I've tried both Mario & Luigi DS games and they're just... dull. I end up walking around barren ugly environments with little idea of how to progress and not much interest in the story. After a few hours the pacing completely sags and I stop playing.

I enjoyed what I played of SPM so I'd like to try TTYD at some point.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Go the Paper Mario route and bring it back to the traditional RPG.

Trying to make it a traditional platformer but also an RPG was a horrible fucking idea.

 

[thesurfshop19]

Can we combine the writing of M&L:SS, the structure of PM:TTYD, and the party system of SMRPG?

 

[John Harker]

I wouldn't be surprised for crossovers here.


For me, this thread kinda makes me a little sad since I only played Suoer Mario RPG, Super Paper Mario and Sticker Star.

Thought SS was pretty dull and stopped after 8 hours, really liked SPM and the cast of characters, and Super Mario RPG is legend status

 

[TI82]

Super Mario RPG, great.
Paper Mario, great.
Thousand Year Door, SUPERB.
Mario and Luigi, great.
Partners in time, bad.
Super Paper Mario, bad.
Bowsers inside Story, decent.
Sticker Star, HORRIBLE.
Dream Team, haven't played yet.

The series has seen an obvious downward trend. Haven't played Dream Team but I've heard bad things. Hopefully they learn from the obvious mistakes...

 

[GenericBadGuy]

When I think of the Mario RPGs I think of absolutely stellar writing. TTYD blew me away with how clever it could be at times, and certain little quirks of these games have stuck with me for longer than a vast majority of games due to the sheer charm of the franchise. Little unexplainable things: the sound effect when a character gets the confused "?" above their head (I've been trying to figure out how to make this my text tone off and on for years), the facial expression and tone change when Goombario's dad busts his ass repairing a gate only for it to be flattened, a boo lamenting the loss of his bro ("Gary noooo"), and my genuine confusion in the Doopliss chapter. It's just genuine good, smart, clean fun.

I hope the series continues in some way, and my only wish is for some great writing, characters, and setting, and for these sort of moments to continue to be included.

 

[Septimus Prime]

To me, Partners in Time is the best of the non-SMRPG (which stands on a class of its own but doesn't feel that much like a Mario game to me) Mario RPGs. It has just the right balance of exploration, story length, and side quests, and it also caps your level and power at just the right place so that you don't become ridiculously powerful. The Bros. moves are also a huge step up from its predecessor in that they don't consume any points but rather involve items from the Mario series. Mario and Luigi tossing a Fire Flower at each other or kicking a Koopa shell back and forth just makes the game feel very Mario-like.

The Paper Mario games, on the other hand, all start off fantastic but get super boring, with dragged out dialogue, toward the end.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

I really, really, really, really want a "Mario RPG Monsters".

There's so many cool Mario foes and such, it's a shame we haven't had a game where you get to collect and fight alongside them. One of the reasons I'm excited about Puzzles and Dragons, Mario Edition, is that it's the closest we've come to such an idea, although I imagine it's not that in-depth since the puzzle element of the game is the main genre over an RPG.

You could probably check off another checkbox with this, by making it a game focused on Bowser as the protagonist, leading his army of minions. There's a lot of styles you could go with...a modified version of Paper Mario, where your partners rather than set characters, are monsters that you raise.

One idea I had was something along the lines of Denpa Men, a mix of RPG and Dungeon Crawler. You'd play as Bowser, and could collect over 100 unique Minions---ranging from the little guys like Goomba and Koopa, to the big players like Petey and the Koopalings---who'd serve as your Party Members alongside Bowser. The main "gimmick" of the game was that all the minions would be extremely expendable to Bowser, they wouldn't permanently die or anything, but basically you could bring all the Minions you have with you into each Dungeon. Each Minion would be very limited in what they could do, and wouldn't last long, so you'd need to wisely use them depending on the difficulty of each fight to make it through each Dungeon. Minions could level up, but their stat growth would be rather minimal. Bowser himself is the only really in-depth party member, but can only do basic attacks, so you need the Minions assistance or else you won't last long. For example, Bowser can't use items, only the Minions can.

The plot would involve Dry Bowser returning as his own character, who takes over the Mushroom Kingdom when Bowser is away. Now, Bowser must travel through the Mushroom Kingdom...transformed into a strange, nightmarish landscape, rescue his minions from Dry Bowser's control, and defeat him and rescue Peach.

 

[88Titan88]

Wow, very good thread, congrats OP!
As for the direction I want the series to continue in, I guess a comeback to a Mario RPG-esque style would be nice with the technical and visual capabilities of the 3DS, and with a bit the Nintendo touch we all love to introduce new things to the formula.

 

[Stimpack]

Super Mario RPG is the only one I have fond feelings for.

Same here, it's still probably in my top 10 games of all time. I wish the others were nearly as good.

 

[doemaaan]

Yea, nice thread. I've had Paper Mario on my Wii's virtual console for like 3 years now and am probably only halfway through. I really need to finish it so I can start TTYD.... Tired of hearing how amazing that game is.

 

[Mory Dunz]

When I think of the Mario RPGs I think of absolutely stellar writing. TTYD blew me away with how clever it could be at times, and certain little quirks of these games have stuck with me for longer than a vast majority of games due to the sheer charm of the franchise. Little unexplainable things: the sound effect when a character gets the confused "?" above their head (I've been trying to figure out how to make this my text tone off and on for years), the facial expression and tone change when Goombario's dad busts his ass repairing a gate only for it to be flattened, a boo lamenting the loss of his bro ("Gary noooo"), and my genuine confusion in the Doopliss chapter. It's just genuine good, smart, clean fun.

I hope the series continues in some way, and my only wish is for some great writing, characters, and setting, and for these sort of moments to continue to be included.

Yeah, the writing has always been a strongpoint.

I think the one thing PM needs if it goes back to its roots, is having the full party particiapate in some cutscenes. So they can interact with each other. It would build on making them compelling.

To achieve this, I would be fine if they went for a smaller party. Like 3-4 instead of the usual 6-7(?).

 

[tokkun]

They really need a change in direction to get me to come back to the series. Dream Team was just awful. The gameplay really suffered from constantly being interrupted with tutorials to the endless Luigi gimmicks that were never fun to begin with. The other big problem is the writing. The character-related jokes with Mario, Luigi, and Bowser are getting old and a lot of the other writing has a forced meme quality to it, like the excruciatingly long segment with the bodybuilder/mountain climber dialog. Maybe they need to have the next game star Peach or Toad so they can try to get some fresh jokes in.

 

[EndlessFloydian]

Yeah, for me I believe PM64, TTYD, and M&L:SS are the standouts of the entire RPG series, but I haven't played all of the Mario RPGs, either. Outside of the ones mentioned, I've only played bits and pieces of M&L: PiT.

Going forward, I've recently gotten the gut feeling that Nintendo may merge the M&L and PM series into one franchise of some sort, but who knows.

Just put out a Mario RPG game that is as good as TTYD and/or M&L: SS, and I'll be happy.

 

[StormyTheRabbit]

Paper Mario is one of my favorite games of all time. Still have my CiB copy.

TTYD is also one of the best games I can remember from my childhood, I remember pre-ordering it 2 FUCKING YEARS before it came out at Gamestop when I read about it (ugh.)

Lets just go back to that.

Mario and Luigi are great though for handhelds. I say use both for each respective system, handheld and console.

 

[bounchfx]

I would freakin slay something to get a remake of Super Mario RPG on 3DS or Wii U. That shit would look GLORIOUS with todays graphics.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

Oh yeah, ranking wise...

Mario RPG is a solid game, but I sort of consider it "Baby's First RPG". As a kid it was decently challenging, but playing it now, I realize how easy it is. There's not a lot of options available in terms of equipment and such, basically just buy the newest stuff when you reach a shop, and you'll be set. The game doesn't give you a lot of choices like other RPGs, so you're pretty much always more or less good to go, and for better or worse it's really easy bar a few tough spots here and there. Culex, as an adult, is now painfully easy.

It also feels like it isn't a Mario game at moments, such as the Mole Town not using Monty Mole, and this is good and bad. One of the reasons I love Paper Mario is seeing all the classic foes with more personality, which Mario RPG skimps out on a bit in favor of new characters, who aren't bad, but it's nice to see a new take on a familiar face. However, I'd like to see a new Mario RPG that takes a few Mario characters and throw them in a strange world...

Paper Mario is probably the best RPG series for me, with the first and second being about equal. I think they're a bit tougher than Mario RPG, but not by too much, you just have less HP total and not a traditional party to rely on, so you gotta be a bit more cautious. There are also more variables to watch out for, like where to put stats, and more equipment variance. It's great seeing classic Mario foes as party members, and is the main draw---one reason while Super and Sticker Star aren't as well liked. Writing is top-notch, with an enjoyable story. To be honest, I do feel Thousand Year Door can get exhausting at points, and repetitive---the Glitz Pit, Twilight Town, the end game, I got worn out playing it, but looked on the experience fondly. I think Paper Mario 64 has the better pacing, but isn't as good when it comes to the story.

Super Paper Mario gets a lot of hate, but I think it's a game everyone needs to experience once. I feel like the designers had a lot of fun with it, and there's lots of neat, yet sometimes frustrating, set-pieces and styles. Out of all the Mario RPGs, I'd say Super Paper Mario is the closest I'd say to being a work of art---take that as you will. It ditches many classic Mario characters for weird, abstract dudes, but I find the story to be probably the best of the Paper Mario games, and is quite ambitious and surprising. The biggest downside is the game can be annoying, and it seems like it was designed to test the player's patience at points. It's one of those games I love, yet probably couldn't bring myself to replay. If you hated Super Paper Mario, according to Miyamoto you're the reason we got Sticker Star, so thanks a lot.

Sticker Star---well, the game actually had promise. It looks nice, and sounds GREAT---I love the music, and was pissed they chose the weaker songs for Smash Brothers. The idea to focus on the core Mario cast could've been cool, had we seen development of dudes like Bowser Jr., Kamek, and such, who don't appear much in the other RPG games, but, well, the game doesn't do that. And the battle system could've been cool, something like Battle Network or Baten Kaitos with a unique battle system relying on collectibles, but is just lacking depth and too easy. It's really the biggest waste of potential for me. I don't think it's horrible, I had quite some fun with it and sort of liked how it was set up like a classic Mario RPG, and I'd be willing to give Intelligent Systems another shot at such a game, provided they make the battle system more meaningful and write a good story to go with it.

Now, Mario and Luigi...I agree that the games are overall weak, with the original being the only one I considered really good. But, upon playing it, I realize it actually has a lot of problems like its sequels, pretty bland areas to explore with a lot of lengthy fights, intrusive tutorials and mini-games when you just want to progress, and a weaker world overall. Superstar Saga is still pretty humorous, which I think saves it, but the problem with the sequels are they really turned down the humor and are really bland, and the setting in those games are on the weak side. There also aren't that many memorable characters in the games besides a handful, either. But what kills it, I think, is that the platforming elements which have become more pronounced just end up being more frustrating than fun, and the battles tend to be very long and dragged out, even against normal foes. I actually find them to be the most difficult Mario RPGs, and the bosses for example in Partner in Time turned me off because of how long they were.

Dream Team, I think, is a step in the right direction though. I'm tempted to say upon revisiting the original, it might edge out over Super Star except when it comes to the setting and characters. I'd also like to see AlphaDream continue with it, but we need a big shake-up this time around, a really well-thought out world, more interesting characters, and perhaps something cool like Wario and Waluigi, or, hell, let Peach and Daisy become the playable leads!

 

[Megatron]

I really need to finish these games. I really like them but have only finished super paper Mario.

Is Mario and Luigi: superstar saga on the WiiU yet?