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[Enter the Dragon Punch]

it's hardly a derail when he's the subject of the thread and there's every possibility he's doing this for self-serving reasons to begin with

Nope, it's still a derail trying to make this about Kern's stupid personal decisions and GamerGate.

I made this thread because I like World of Warcraft and legacy realms are a hot topic. I didn't make it so we could all get together to discuss how awful Mark Kern is.

People know he can be a shitheel most of the time - but this is about World of Warcraft, not him.

 

[HStallion]

It's a remark that was made on stage some years ago at Blizzcon, when a fan asked if legacy servers were considered and the lead designer replied "You think you want them, but you don't".

I did not know that. Still might not be the first thing you want the guys at Blizzard to read when you're hoping they are actually going to help out the fans and create Vanilla Servers.

 

[Nimby]

it's hardly a derail when he's the subject of the thread and there's every possibility he's doing this for self-serving reasons to begin with

yeah let's talk about the car he drives too, that's totally relevant

 

[SpiceMelange]

I'll try to steer the discussion away from that GG thing.

How do you guys think they should handle the vanilla servers long-term? I have a feeling after the honeymoon phase or a year after the last raid (naxx) people will be bored again. Should they make progressive servers expansion to expansion? Seperate vanilla into some sort of "eternal" server and a "progressive" one that will eventually go to BC and beyond?

 

[NoblesseOblige]

yeah let's talk about the car he drives too, that's totally relevant

I tried to find what he drives on twitter but it's just full of his jackassery instead. Sorry, I have failed you.

 

[Acerac]

Didn't that dude proudly declare he was pro-GG on Twitter? Also, what a waste of paper bringing that petition to Blizzard in addition to completely missing the point of the "You think you do but you don't" comment.

Mind elaborating what the point of the comment was, if you think it's being missed?

 

[Enter the Dragon Punch]

I'll try to steer the discussion away from that GG thing.

How do you guys think they should handle the vanilla servers long-term? I have a feeling after the honeymoon phase or a year after the last raid (naxx) people will be bored again. Should they make progressive servers expansion to expansion? Seperate vanilla into some sort of "eternal" server and a "progressive" one that will eventually go to BC and beyond?

I think the best way for them to handle it, provided they have the source code for TBC and later as well still, is to offer two alternatives:

1) servers that are only ever on a certain expansion

2) progression realms that start at Vanilla and turn into "pristine" realms when it hits the later content (I.E. no heirlooms, lfd, etc in patch 3.2 or later)

Howver, the only way I see the latter working is if they charge another, seperate sub fee. That's a lot of work that I doubt Blizz would do for $15 a month

 

[Wickerbasket]

I'll try to steer the discussion away from that GG thing.

How do you guys think they should handle the vanilla servers long-term? I have a feeling after the honeymoon phase or a year after the last raid (naxx) people will be bored again. Should they make progressive servers expansion to expansion? Seperate vanilla into some sort of "eternal" server and a "progressive" one that will eventually go to BC and beyond?

I'd like for the servers to progress yearly up to and through Wrath.

They could stagger the servers so that there would always be a server on one version of the game.

Or they could just have plain vanilla servers. I'd pay for that too.

It's not a new idea, other MMOs have done it.

 

[Sophia]

I think the best way for them to handle it, provided they have the source code for TBC and later as well still, is to offer two alternatives:

1) servers that are only ever on a certain expansion

2) progression realms that start at Vanilla and turn into "pristine" realms when it hits the later content (I.E. no heirlooms, lfd, etc in patch 3.2 or later)

Yeah, that's kind of what I'd like to see. A big thing that helps is that Vanilla/BC era Warcraft doesn't rely as heavily on catchup mechanics either, so even the first type of servers would still be progression based.

 

[echoshifting]

Man it would be so cool to do Blackwing Lair again

40 people though

 

[Enter the Dragon Punch]

Man it would be so cool to do Blackwing Lair again

40 people though

Suppression room :')

 

[Sophia]

Man it would be so cool to do Blackwing Lair again

40 people though

I'd love to do vanilla Naxxramas myself. I never got to see it back in the day, like most players, and there's enough significant changes from the Wrath version that'd make it worth it.

 

[echoshifting]

Suppression room :')

Best looking sets too, for several classes

The shoulders I got for my Warlock in BWL is still my favorite thing I've ever gotten

 

[Sesuadra]

I'll try to steer the discussion away from that GG thing.

How do you guys think they should handle the vanilla servers long-term? I have a feeling after the honeymoon phase or a year after the last raid (naxx) people will be bored again. Should they make progressive servers expansion to expansion? Seperate vanilla into some sort of "eternal" server and a "progressive" one that will eventually go to BC and beyond?

Good question. I would actually be alright with the new player models we got. they look just so much better. so graphical stuff they could keep.

after 6months/a year...why not open the Portal and give the expansion on one server, leave the game in vanilla state on another. something like that.

 

[Retrofluxed]

I'd like to see a server that cycles from vanilla, to BC, to Wrath and resets. Give about 1 1/2 to 2 years per expansion.

 

[echoshifting]

Yeah I would definitely want the chance to stay at a certain expansion level. The whole point of this is to experience all the old content and I might not manage to do that on Blizzard's timeline.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

I'd love to do vanilla Naxxramas myself. I never got to see it back in the day, like most players, and there's enough significant changes from the Wrath version that'd make it worth it.

This so much, never did vanilla naxx, I would resubscribe for that.

 

[Aadrian1234]

Only played like a few hours of the WoW trial and being used to FFXIV (avatar checks out), i wasn't exactly having the best time in the starting areas. What would be the best way to summarize to a complete newbie (i know MMO terms and basic MMO knowledge from my time in FFXIV) on the differences between legacy and current? I've tried to play because of friends but it takes like an hour and i start feeling like i should do something else instead and never return to it afterwards.

Chances are is if a friend decides to play it and there's a way to try it for free, i would probably try it yet again

 

[Neiteio]

I don't play WOW (not interested in MMOs) but there's clearly a very passionate community that loved this game in its original state. Hopefully they get what they want. Always a bit sad to see communities pulled apart.

 

[petghost]

I don't play WOW (not interested in MMOs) but there's clearly a very passionate community that loved this game in its original state. Hopefully they get what they want. Always a bit sad to see communities pulled apart.

No because someone involved has opinions some people disagree with therefore it is unethical to let him be involved with anything ever despite how many people stand to benefit.

 

[stuminus3]

Well this thread went to shit.

Someone get Mark Cerny on the phone, he'll fix everything. He's lovely.

 

[Maximus.]

I understand WoW still has a large community, but I am surprised the sub pricing hasn't decreased after all these years. Wonder what the scenario would be if they made this happen.

 

[ZangBa]

I'd be down for a TBC server, but Vanilla is cool, too. I'd like to see the pricing model for this, Blizzard is likely to eventually implement this, I think.

 

[Khezu]

I have no idea if vanilla servers are something I would stick with, but I would definitely love to try it out for a bit.

 

[bishoptl]

I'll keep my fingers crossed for a Blizzcon announcement. Would be hype.

Please don't hijack this thread with GG nonsense. It's really not needed. Start a new one up if you feel so strongly about it.

Leave the backseat modding to staff, please.

 

[bishoptl]

yeah let's talk about the car he drives too, that's totally relevant

You need better analogies, bud

 

[partyphone]

this is a guy who got fired as CEO of Red 5 Studios partly because he spent $2 million on a bus that couldn't actually drive.

so we know for sure he doesn't drive the Firewall bus.

 

[JudgmentJay]

Only played like a few hours of the WoW trial and being used to FFXIV (avatar checks out), i wasn't exactly having the best time in the starting areas. What would be the best way to summarize to a complete newbie (i know MMO terms and basic MMO knowledge from my time in FFXIV) on the differences between legacy and current? I've tried to play because of friends but it takes like an hour and i start feeling like i should do something else instead and never return to it afterwards.

Chances are is if a friend decides to play it and there's a way to try it for free, i would probably try it yet again

Off the top of my head... compared to current WoW, vanilla had basically 0 quality of life features, raiding was only accessible to a small percentage of hardcore players, raid encounters were often buggy and way overtuned and some bosses required weeks to months of hardcore raiding to take down, regular dungeons took hours to complete and often ended in failure unless you were with a good group, you had to actually engage with the community to get groups and physically walk to dungeons, open-world PvP was a thing and yet PvP gear didn't exist (for a long time anyway) so raiders would just steamroll everyone else, flasks (high-end consumables) required insane amounts of materials to make and vanished upon death, leveling took a relatively long time, there were gaps in the questing where you were better off grinding, and you could die really easily, especially at low levels.

It was great.

 

[Resseh]

Blizzard should just release day 1 wow and never update it

 

[Squire]

They're not going to do anything and Mark is a sad panda GGer that's lucky Mike gave him the time of day.

"THEY ALREADY KNEW EVERYTHING"

No, they said what would get you the fuck out of the building as fast possible without calling security.

 

[KojiKnight]

That they bothered with Kern is kind of bleh... but the information on vanilla servers was interesting... wish the topic hadn't included Kern's name, would likely have helped prevent some of the derailment.

 

[John Kowalski]

I don't know what's worse, the gator implications or the anime boobs twitter header.

Hope Blizzard puts up some Vanilla servers, big step for MMO archiving.

 

[Giever]

Leave the backseat modding to staff, please.

You can't leave the backseat modding to staff, that's just regular modding!

 

[UnblessedSoul]

Vanilla servers by themselves would be pretty boring, progression servers for each expansion would be better, mainly wrath and tbc

 

[Karak]

You seem to be conflating Mark Kern and Mark Cerny. They're two completely different people.

Bahahaha. Oh man.
But when it comes to Vanilla I assume they had some pretty good metrics to decide what to support and what not to support and understand that dropoff is expected to a certain point. Going to be interesting for sure.

 

[Hazaro]

I get the impression he wants to be part of setting something up.
The problem is Mark is a lunatic and shouldn't be anywhere near in charge of anything (See: Entire development and 'leadership' of Firefall).

That said it's nice what he did here.

 

[Carl2291]

Leave the backseat modding to staff, please.

Sure thing, sorry about that.

It's just so irritating to see what should be positive news be hijacked by people with an agenda. This should be celebrated, no matter what kind of personal views the guy has. We might finally be getting official legacy servers!

 

[BreezyLimbo]

I get the impression he wants to be part of setting something up.

The problem is Mark is a lunatic and shouldn't be anywhere near in charge of anything (See: Entire development and 'leadership' of Firefall).

Oh god he was responsible for that

please no

 

[partyphone]

Sure thing, sorry about that.

It's just so irritating to see what should be positive news be hijacked by people with an agenda. This should be celebrated, no matter what kind of personal views the guy has. We might finally be getting official legacy servers!

the point is Kern isnt the best person to be spearheading this effort. he's toxic and he's a massive fuckup. don't pin your hopes on him.

 

[captainraincoat]

why not release wow vanilla on consoles?
the original game would surely run fine on ps4/xbox

 

[ChrisMahoney]

Nostalgiac players don't remember how terrible vanilla raiding would be. Have fun farming hours and hours for flasks. Have fun fighting bosses we already know every optimal strategy on

 

[Meia]

Announcement at Blizzcon this year.

What I'm expecting. Have to announce something as even the newest WoW expansion will be out by then. Can probably see it being a separate "game" to WoW, with currently paying subs having access to it while a cheaper sub being for it compared to basic WoW.


I honestly think that's probably the only thing they're going to have a problem with figuring out. You can't just have it it's own server probably like "RP" or "PvP", since many players that would want it may already be character capped(or close to), and even if not it'd probably be a mess to have two different clients sharing the same server group. They're probably just trying to figure out the logistics of monetizing it to be worth the hassle of doing it.

 

[meanspartan]

As WoW gets older and older and settles into just a couple million subscribers, I think they'll be more open to Vanilla Servers and other ideas like that.

I love the idea, I'm not saying I'd be that into it or anything but I'd love it as a sort of virtual "tourism". I played WoW 2010-2013, and was obviously too late for Vanilla. So it'd be nice to have a look.

 

[JudgmentJay]

Nostalgiac players don't remember how terrible vanilla raiding would be. Have fun farming hours and hours for flasks. Have fun fighting bosses we already know every optimal strategy on

I remember, which is why I wouldn't raid. I'd just casually level a character or two and enjoy the leveling process. Maaaybe do some end-game dungeons if I find a solid group/guild.

 

[meanspartan]

Nostalgiac players don't remember how terrible vanilla raiding would be. Have fun farming hours and hours for flasks. Have fun fighting bosses we already know every optimal strategy on

Ya, I don't doubt that once the general public is let in (as opposed to the super hardcore who had to figure out how to get on an unofficial vanilla server) we'll start seeing things like "I get this is vanilla, but JUST change this and I'll be happy!".

 

[SOR5]

why not release wow vanilla on consoles?
the original game would surely run fine on ps4/xbox

They showed a dynamic camera for Legion which looks friggin great and could really work on consoles

 

[Cormano]

Heres hoping.

 

[Dyson Industries]

Sure thing, sorry about that.

It's just so irritating to see what should be positive news be hijacked by people with an agenda. This should be celebrated, no matter what kind of personal views the guy has. We might finally be getting official legacy servers!

Act irritated because the point man on your project rolls around in shit, then tracks it on the carpet. The only agenda I see is your hand-waving of a guy with bloody reprehensible personal view which he has no problem sharing. Well, he can suck it up then.

 

[Jacksinthe]

To everyone who doubted me when I told you they still had code:

Na-na na-na boo boo, stick your head in doo-doo.

-

That being said from my high horse, I don't think much will come of this, TBH.

 

[Bacon_Boss]

I'd be interested in vanilla with some misc additions, most importantly being:

-All current races
-The use of modern models and textures
-Paladins and Shaman on both sides
-Class balance more akin to how players would have wanted it then. It was basically the warrior club back in Vanilla. They were the only tanks, and the only class who could deviate from their "main" role with any level of success. You had arms warriors dominating PvP and geared Fury Warriors dominating PvE in addition to every single tank being a warrior.

If your rolled Paladin to swing a giant hammer in Vanilla and ended up healing because that was literally the only useful thing you could do, then the game was less fun. Sure plenty of people kept their paladins and had fun anyway, but it doesn't keep it from being a denial of what the 3 spec system suggested classes might be able to do.

Hell come to think of it skip the Vanilla servers and give us TBC servers