There are people in the comics that believe that Spider-Man is made up by the medias to attract tourists to New York.
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Marvel's Jessica Jones |OT| A.K.A. Marvel's A.K.A. Jessica Jones *spoilers for S1*
- Thread starter TheOddOne
- Start date
There are people in the comics that believe that Spider-Man is made up by the medias to attract tourists to New York.
eastx
Member
No particular reason to believe the full details of what Loki or Scarlet Witch did would be public knowledge. Even if it was, people wouldn't necessarily believe the mind control aspects of it, either.
GordonHalfman
Member
I thought it was sort of a problem either way, since if popular acceptance of stuff like mind control is so implausible then why did Jessica think a single amateur video would convince people?
I was never exactly clear what she planned to do with the video. Was she hoping to change public perception to the point where legal precedents around mind control would have to be made, or just to get a jury to acquit Hope (via nullification presumably), or was she hoping for someone like SHIELD to come along and do something extra judicial to Kilgrave.
Either way it seemed like the testimony of Simpson + Kilgrave's parents would have been a better starting point, especially since Kilgrave's dad seemed to have a grasp on the scientific basis for his powers.
I was never exactly clear what she planned to do with the video. Was she hoping to change public perception to the point where legal precedents around mind control would have to be made, or just to get a jury to acquit Hope (via nullification presumably), or was she hoping for someone like SHIELD to come along and do something extra judicial to Kilgrave.
Either way it seemed like the testimony of Simpson + Kilgrave's parents would have been a better starting point, especially since Kilgrave's dad seemed to have a grasp on the scientific basis for his powers.
Once (ep 9)
Killgrave's parents came into the picture, they really didn't need him on video. They could have used the lab notes, his parent's testimony
I wasn't bothered by people quickly dismissing mind control. I mean, they are still coming to terms with superheroes and aliens which is probably impacting their personal beliefs and faith. Adding another huge holy shit factor might be too much for many people to deal with.
The issue I had was
The issue I had was
what made Jessica immune to the virus? She wasn't initially able to fight it, but she kills Rena and suddenly she is cured? Doesn't make any sense. Certainly there would have been others that developed an immunity to it as well. Why is Jessica so special? I mean she did say she heals faster when she had a broken rib, but I didn't know if that was serious or sarcasm. But that's all the more we got about it so it never made sense to me.
She was the longest under his influence, slowly built up some resistance and then came the big moment.
Was my problem with this as well.
Too bad she didn't hire Matt. Dude would have won her that case easy with all the victims she can bring forth + the tapes + Killgrave's parents. In a world with a Norse god and a giant green rage monster beating the hell out of space aliens from a rip in space, I don't buy that people would just scoff at persuasive mind control despite all evidence to the contrary.
GordonHalfman
Member
Yeah agreed. It was a particular stumbling block for me because (ep9)
Jessica's video plan just seemed so shit. Apart from being unreliable even if it had gone exactly as planned the video wouldn't even show someone stabbing themselves or similar, it would just show them apparently planning to stab themselves before being interrupted by the fail-safe. Hogarth even said at one point that the video would be dismissed as staged and I don't remember Jessica really coming up with a counterpoint to that.
The way I took it was
that his parents were not immediately credible and keeping Kilgrave locked up is not something to half ass*. They wanted something rock solid and undeniable so that it couldn't be dismissed or not taken seriously. Consider that Hogarth despite seeing everything and actually believing he can mind control people, she still lets him out. Mind you I don't think video proof of a guy saying something and another person doing that is incontrovertible evidence either but I still think that was the intent.
*I know, Jessica herself fucks this up constantly
*I know, Jessica herself fucks this up constantly
The show didn't really establish how long he controlled her I don't believe. Malcom should have built up the same resistance since he was under his control for a long time.
But the big moment didn't make sense as to why it had that effect as the tipping point.
A big point about Malcom is that he actually wasn't under his control all the time but was still doing it for the drugs.
But yea, the logic behind how she becomes immune is fuzzy. I don't think it's that important for how little that ripples out in the story but they shouldn't have brought attention to it with the vaccine idea that lasted for less than an episode.
Attack on New York?
Aliens in London?
Sokovia lifting into the skies?
Government conspiracies.
PeskyToaster
Member
I don't think he was under constant control which is what the drugs were for and why he felt so guilty.
I recall it being said that she was controlled for eight months.
That's true. Probably more motivated by the drugs.
Ah I missed that.
HappyPuppy
Member
The sister really was the most pointless character in the show.
I found her so irritating and obnoxious.
Killgrave picked the wrong twin
The Artisan
Member
in the comics. But I don't think they specified in the show's version.
So considering how the series didn't want to even try attempting "normal" cases where Jessica investigated stuff which had nothing to do with Kilgrave, what would a second season even be about? Her investigating IGH? Finding other specials? Fighting Nuke again? Looooool. Sounds like a bad idea...
The Artisan
Member
one idea that just popped in my head is, maybe after defenders part 1, Jessica and luke will have an amalgamated show starring both of them. Instead of each of them having renewed seasons.
YourMaster
Member
My guess is that it will indeed center around IGH. I think this is the reason they were introduced the way they are, and it fits as it is a shady organization she has to investigate and they specialize in making people 'superhuman' so she there will be some opportunities for fist-fights.
On an unrelated note, and perhaps I'm not the first person to notice this, but having your parent die seems to be a prerequisite to getting super powers. I get my info mostly from the movies and series, but all the comic book shows on right now seem to rely on 'dead parents':
- Jessica Jones: Becomes powerful in accident killing her parents. (Main villain also kills parents).
- Daredevil: Fights crime because criminals caused his fathers death. I believe main villain also motivated by death of his father.
- Agents of Shield: Revolves around a hacker orphan joining shield to find out what happened to her parents. Main villain joined Hydra because his parents are dead.
- Arrow: Becomes superhero for father who kills himself for Arrow to live. Mother dies later.
- The Flash: Key motivation is finding out who killed his mother and framed his father for it.
- Superman: Parents die to send him to earth an orphan.
- Batman: Becomes a hero because his parents get shot.
- Spiderman: He's somehow an orphan already, so becomes a hero when dad-figure uncle dies.
- X-men: I believe most of them just happen to be orphans.
Can't comic book companies afford some proper writers that can give a character some actual dept and personality without resorting to the same tropes?
Have I missed a contemporary comic book movie/tv series where all parents are alive and well?
EDIT:
Ok, I'm sure you're right. Then I don't remember how he came under the influence of that 'father figure' old hydra guy. Anyway, they are all dead now, no more living parents.
The Artisan
Member
Goku's an orphan too. I feel like parts of his arc were very largely inspired by Superman.
I don't really feel that Jessica Jones works particularly well as a "me too" sort of character. Her entire existence in the comics these days is basically "Luke Cage's wife" which isn't really a particularly significant role. If they combine the two, I would expect it more to be a Luke Cage show featuring Jessica Jones. On the other hand, if they combine Luke Cage and Iron Fist, they could have a Heroes for Hire series going pretty easily. It's just a difference with how the dynamics work imo.
The Artisan
Member
yeah, just a random thought I had. I can't tell how good or bad of an idea it'd be. they are making the antman sequel a duo movie though, I think.
Mind control isn't directly observable either, so it's acceptable that people wouldn't believe it right off the bat, even if aliens and superpowered people exist.
The skepticism is not that different from real life, really. It's not like there's a threshold that people cross and go "well A and B exist, so everything is automatically possible now".
The Artisan
Member
I don't really get the impression that there are public testimonies about stuff from the movies. They're all managed and hushed up by the powers that be, so the average cop or citizen will likely not know the specifics.
The Artisan
Member
what I mean is that the civilians of that universe should not be so skeptic of the "impossible". it's not just superpowers. it's aliens too; the people of that universe have discovered that they're not alone in the cosmos.
a man who has mind control powers shouldn't be immediately dismissed. but that's just how I feel about it.
I think the more important factor in this case is who is claiming it. If Tony Stark came out and said people need to be careful of this person, and showed his photo, I think most people would buy it. Jessica Jones is a small time PI with a terrible home office, and she turns people off from first impressions. Not a lot of cred.
The Artisan
Member
Yeah, you have a point there but if Jessica were to warn people of an individual who was capable of said power, I'm just saying it shouldn't be dismissed based on the stuff that's happened in this universe. I guess trusting Jessica is another issue.
This was a breath of fresh air. I wish Marvel would allow for more of these tightly-knit stories driven by interesting characters who are more than "I have a superpower, hear me roar" and not everything needing to be "saving the world from a big bad". The set up for season 2 does not look promising in this regard but damn that was good if a bit elongated at times.
I imagine someone from Shield could have popped in and said, "Yea it's possible.", or at least investigate. After Avengers 1 & 2, I imagine any sort of possible mind controller would be taken very seriously.
That said, it's one of those things where you just have to separate the TV show from the rest of the MCU otherwise you'll go insane.
Coulson et al would get fucked up by Kilgrave.
exmachina64
Banned
Just finished it. Took me quite a while to finish it because I've been extremely busy but I caught up on the last six episodes in two marathon sessions.
It's not perfect. It definitely suffers a little bit from presuming that people will commit to the whole series because certain characters and subplots get a bit intrusive (I'm especially thinking of Hogarth, here) and it didn't quite hook me as quickly as the likes of House of Cards or Sense8.
...But once it did, damn. That's at least in part down to Tennant, who was fantastic in those last few episodes. Don't buy the complaints that it starts off good and goes off the boil, if anything it was more the other way around for me.
Very good series. Guess I ought to watch Daredevil now, huh.
Also, I can't be the only one thinking of incredibly mundane uses for Kilgrave's powers, right?
It's not perfect. It definitely suffers a little bit from presuming that people will commit to the whole series because certain characters and subplots get a bit intrusive (I'm especially thinking of Hogarth, here) and it didn't quite hook me as quickly as the likes of House of Cards or Sense8.
...But once it did, damn. That's at least in part down to Tennant, who was fantastic in those last few episodes. Don't buy the complaints that it starts off good and goes off the boil, if anything it was more the other way around for me.
Very good series. Guess I ought to watch Daredevil now, huh.
Also, I can't be the only one thinking of incredibly mundane uses for Kilgrave's powers, right?
Diprosalic
Banned
i was wondering if they did the "nuke the fridge" scene on purpose?
speeking about the fight scene in her appartment when they hit nuke with a fridge.
i thought it was funny
speeking about the fight scene in her appartment when they hit nuke with a fridge.
i thought it was funny
Incendiary
Banned
Finished it up today. Tennant is by far the standout performance, he should really play bad guys more often and basically all his scenes were the best of the show.
Overall I liked the earlier episodes more when it felt more noir. I think they could have done more if they'd kept Kilgrave as an overhanging menace for a few more episodes where you saw what he could do. Also a few of the side plots were dumb and took away from the good parts. And a lot of characters suffered from Dumb For Sake of More Episodes at some points. I think Daredevil had an overall better supporting cast, mostly because Matt's friends were few and kept integral, while the majority of the supporting cast were bad guys. In this one there was only one villain (but awesome) so a majority of the supporting cast felt ancillary to the main plot and took away from the show. It was basically "okay, when is this seemingly random side plot involving other characters going to be fucked up by Kilgrave."
Still enjoyed it a bunch, though, and it's better than a vast majority of other television shows. I hope if we get a season 2 we get a little bit more of private eye Jessica and some cases, maybe involving minor superheroes or something.
Overall I liked the earlier episodes more when it felt more noir. I think they could have done more if they'd kept Kilgrave as an overhanging menace for a few more episodes where you saw what he could do. Also a few of the side plots were dumb and took away from the good parts. And a lot of characters suffered from Dumb For Sake of More Episodes at some points. I think Daredevil had an overall better supporting cast, mostly because Matt's friends were few and kept integral, while the majority of the supporting cast were bad guys. In this one there was only one villain (but awesome) so a majority of the supporting cast felt ancillary to the main plot and took away from the show. It was basically "okay, when is this seemingly random side plot involving other characters going to be fucked up by Kilgrave."
Still enjoyed it a bunch, though, and it's better than a vast majority of other television shows. I hope if we get a season 2 we get a little bit more of private eye Jessica and some cases, maybe involving minor superheroes or something.
Just watched ep 10. This series is so stupid, ugh. Every time ten minutes before the end of the episode everybody collectively loses their brain so our dastardly villain can get away once again. Which would work fine as a Scooby Doo series of episodes, but it plays it completely straight. So much trashed potential.
(also what's up with Jessica doing her touching scenes with a carrot colored face all the time, makeup is so, so bad)
Right now I'm just soldiering on because I want to know how it ends, but if they don't fire the writer, I'm not going to watch the next season.
(also what's up with Jessica doing her touching scenes with a carrot colored face all the time, makeup is so, so bad)
Right now I'm just soldiering on because I want to know how it ends, but if they don't fire the writer, I'm not going to watch the next season.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
You've just watched the low point.
Black-Wind
Member
I don't see why Shield would get involved unless news of this person is verified, proven and sent to them by a reputable source or someone shines a spotlight on him. (as in, Kilgrave is exposed. Sure, maybe Kilgrave could control someone with pull or someone who works at shield by chance and make them do things that they clearly wouldn't do before leaving them I guess but that seems unlikely )
The main reason people wouldn't take this seriously is because ANYONE can say that they were mind controlled (as show in the show, once the idea comes out people jump on it as an excuse) and no one can prove it. A character like Kilgrave under normal circumstances would never get exposed. He's low key af and is too petty to make himself a target by drawing attention to himself through rising in power.
That's why Simpson
killed black detective, he didn't want Kilgrave to be exposed and put into "the system", he wanted him dead and unknown.
YourMaster
Member
Not only did I dislike that that scene as much as Dad skywalker killing all the jedi children, I also would have liked to see more of that character he shot.
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