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[Simply Sarah]

Seeing that pleased me, and cemented my belief that Bendis had never read the other Secret Wars books when he wrote that Ultimate End pile of shit. The last issue was incredibly off in its characterization of

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Doom, who's just the usual tyrant who robbed everyone of their freedom and thoughts

.

It's not super surprising, honestly.

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Hickman's Victor has always been more of an arrogant, but still generally thoughtful and not ill intentioned, Victor von Doom; whereas it seems like many (most?) other writers in recent times have treated him more as an explicitly malevolent and power hungry Doctor Doom.

That said, this is Bendis so it's at least even odds that he didn't actually care about what was happening elsewhere.

 

[Sou Da]

It feels good to be FF fan right now. Real good.

Also the explanation for why Miles survives and has his family is great.

 

[Lashley]

Can someone explain that bit at the end with T'Challa? I didn't understand what was happening

 

[PsychBat!]

I'm glad they didn't compromise with a different writer and/or artist.

 

[Squire]

Gotta say, the thing that shocked me the most about this crossover is, it's the biggest crossover in Marvel History. Look at who was unimportant.

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Spider-Man (Peter), Hulk, Most of the Avengers and X-Men.


That rarely if ever happens. Nevermind Black Panther being the first black hero to be a main character in a DC/Marvel company crossover.


Speaking of the Avengers, they straight up failed. And never got redemption for it. A total shocker. The Illuminati turned out to be the biggest winners.

I think it's more that

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Reed and T'Chala both realized illuminati should have never even been invoked. It took help from people they would've never considered on that level to fix everything. A handful of Avengers, Maximus, Maker, Doom, Reece. Reed had to work with his family, whom he should've gone to in the first place and T'Chala had to set aside his rivalry with Namor.

Illuminati didn't save a damn thing, really. The two guys at the top just finally stopped thinking their shit doesn't stink.

 

[Dalek]

Can someone explain that bit at the end with T'Challa? I didn't understand what was happening

Same here-I'm not sure it made sense to me.

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He did use the Time Gem and traveled back to the start of the Avengers run where he first witnessed the Incursion with Black Swan. Only this time it didn't happen, and he spoke with the students and demonstrated Wakanda's space division.

As to what he actually DID with the gem, I have no idea.

 

[Squire]

It feels good to be FF fan right now. Real good.

Also the explanation for why Miles survives and has his family is great.

It really does. I'm so glad I read F4/FF. I love the family now and Doom as well. It was so worth it.

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

I think it's more that

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Reed and T'Chala both realized illuminati should have never even been invoked. It took help from people they would've never considered on that level to fix everything. A handful of Avengers, Maximus, Maker, Doom, Reece. Reed had to work with his family, whom he should've gone to in the first place and T'Chala had to set aside his rivalry with Namor.

Illuminati didn't save a damn thing, really. The two guys at the top just finally stopped thinking their shit doesn't stink.

True,

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the illuminati themselves didn't do shit, really it was Doom in that juncture. And the two leaders afterwards

But more to the point

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What happened to the Avengers was super dark. Especially after the climactic Infinity fight, that's a team collapse the likes we have never seen.

 

[Sadist]

Gentlemen, it was a fun ride reading with you.

As for the final issue...

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- Namor getting his one douchey oneliner. Never change you smug little bastard.
- Okay, who else kind of cheered when Maker got sliced up like a pizza? Pretty epic.
- Doom vs. Reed, very cool.
- Reed giving the thumbs up for Vic's qualities was a cool moment.
- "Thanks for the burger!" Man, that was all it took for Owen to place Miles in the main universe. And Owen was so nice in giving his mom back! Molecule Man is a pretty nice guy.
- So Reed, Franklin, Malcom and the Future Foundation are recreating the universe? That makes sense. Not bad Reed. Not bad.
- Everything lives! Awww even Doom got a happy ending.

Loved the event overall.

 

[BrokenFiction]

Gentlemen, it was a fun ride reading with you.

As for the final issue...

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- Okay, who else kind of cheered when Maker got sliced up like a pizza? Pretty epic.

Loved the event overall.

I wondered if this was a call back to the original Secret Wars where

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Doom slices up Klaw into little sections

(spoilered not b/c the OG Secret Wars needs it, but knowing it might spoil what happens now)

 

[Squire]

True,

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the illuminati themselves didn't do shit, really it was Doom in that juncture. And the two leaders afterwards

But more to the point

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What happened to the Avengers was super dark. Especially after the climactic Infinity fight, that's a team collapse the likes we have never seen.

Yeah.

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That's why it's probably a good thing both the team and the concept of what the Avengers are and should be is splintered in ANAD.

 

[Manmademan]

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From what I could understand, things are *mostly* the same but different and there's a few extra Earths in the Solar System now?

eh? where did you get that idea

 

[The Silver]

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So is Panther now the only person on earth who still remembers battleworld and all that? Well Doom could still remember maybe.

From Squadron Supreme it seems the incursions still happen, wonder how that got sorted out.

 

[PsychBat!]

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Miles probably remembers. To what extent, I have no idea.

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Interview about the last issue with Tom and Jonathan

Damn it, now they added a new question to the mix.

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What Gem did T'Challa use?

I'm thinking reality.

 

[B-Dubs]

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So is Panther now the only person on earth who still remembers battleworld and all that? Well Doom could still remember maybe.

From Squadron Supreme it seems the incursions still happen, wonder how that got sorted out.

I think it might be that

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only a handful remember the events of Battleworld, like only those that managed to survive it

.

 

[Manmademan]

I think it might be that

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only a handful remember the events of Battleworld, like only those that managed to survive it

.

That would make a lot of sense. There's a handful of characters all across the ANAD books that CLEARLY remember the events of TRO, Battleworld, or both.

Interview about the last issue with Tom and Jonathan

Damn it, now they added a new question to the mix.

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What Gem did T'Challa use?

I'm thinking reality.

I like this particular bit:

Brevoort: It's effectively a new multiverse. The biggest and most important thing here that nobody in the world will like, and that I'm the only one that keeps poking at, is the fact that the Marvel Universe is no longer the 616. I don't know if by the end of "Secret Wars" #9 there are 616 universes yet. There will be an infinite number of them. Realities that we've known and new ones that we've never visited before are being constantly created, and then mapped and explored by Reed and his family.

doing away with the "616" bit was one of the few big things everyone agreed marvel was going to do re: the housecleaning.

 

[Aceun]

What a great conclusion. I love that Miles

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got his mom back because of a cheesburger. I had a cheesburger today in his honor

Eh... I'll just spoiler tag everything

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Black Panther with the infinity gauntlet was epic. And I loved his final contingency of going back in time.

The one interesting thing is how this sets the stage for ANAD.

Not sure if this is the right way to think about this but here goes nothing:

Original 8 Month Gap: The moment of the first incursion happens to the moment that everything dies.

8 Years of Battleworld: Duration of Doom’s singular omniverse before everything lives.

All New All Different 8 Month Gap: Reed and the Future Foundation begin creating the multiverse that begins when the first incursion should have happened.

Marvel Universe Prime (ANAD): The 8th iteration of the marvel universe created in the image of 616 with some notable changes including key battleworld players like Old Man Logan, Miles and Maker.

 

[B-Dubs]

That would make a lot of sense. There's a handful of characters all across the ANAD books that CLEARLY remember the events of TRO, Battleworld, or both.



I like this particular bit:



doing away with the "616" bit was one of the few big things everyone agreed marvel was going to do re: the housecleaning.

What I hope they decide to do at some point is

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a series with Reed, Sue and all the kids exploring the new multiverse

. I'd read the shit out of it.

 

[Manmademan]

What I hope they decide to do at some point is

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a series with Reed, Sue and all the kids exploring the new multiverse

. I'd read the shit out of it.

I suppose, but it would be a weird series with no torch or thing along with them

 

[Lashley]

What I hope they decide to do at some point is

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a series with Reed, Sue and all the kids exploring the new multiverse

. I'd read the shit out of it.

This.

Be silly if they don't.

 

[Mudcrab]

Interview about the last issue with Tom and Jonathan

Damn it, now they added a new question to the mix.

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What Gem did T'Challa use?

I'm thinking reality.

Hickman: Yeah, I have to turn in those script passes. I'll probably do those in the next couple of weeks, now that all of this is locked down. I'm not exactly sure what I'm doing next. I'll figure something out. Tom and I have talked about some stuff -- it's definitely not "Secret Wars II."

Brevoort: [Laughs] I might have an idea for something. We'll talk later. I might or I might not, because you may hear this and go, "Oh, no! I don't want to do that!" [Laughs]

So as far as definite projects for you in the immediate future, it's just creator-owned books?

Hickman: Yeah, I have a bunch of stuff that I'm doing at Image. The biggest thing is that I'm going to write and draw a book again, which I've really missed doing. All of that will get announced pretty shortly, here.

Marvel has been really good to me, and I've had a good time working with them. If I can manage my work schedule, I would absolutely love to continue to do more books with them. And I'm happy, which is nice.

Hnnnngh I forgot about SHIELD and look at that, hope for the future!

I suppose, but it would be a weird series with no torch or thing along with them

I wouldn't say so especially if the point is about

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Reed being Dad and not Mr. Fantastic for awhile.

 

[PsychBat!]

Well regarding the 616 stuff,

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everyone saw that the Marvel Universe was now called "The Prime Universe" near the end of the issue

.

 

[Menome]

eh? where did you get that idea

I've just gone back to that final T'Challa segment and realised I read it wrong.

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I thought it mean that there now 12 planets in our system, when in fact they were looking at a different galaxy. It didn't help the next segment got entitled 'The Prime Earth' as though there were now more of them.

 

[Jack Remington]

So a couple questions for Marvel going forward:

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Is Reed now effectively God in the MU, or does he lose that power gradually as the multiverse is created?

Is Owen Reece now canonically the source of all power in the MU?

 

[B-Dubs]

So a couple questions for Marvel going forward:

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Is Reed now effectively God in the MU, or does he lose that power gradually as the multiverse is created?

Is Owen Reece now canonically the source of all power in the MU?

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Owen is the source of the power Reed's using at the end. That power might be gone, split between all the different Owens and everything's back to normal now.

No idea where you got that second idea.

 

[Busaiku]

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I like that Victor getting his face back is visual representation that yes, Reed would do a better job.

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

This was one heck of an event boys and girls.

 

[Sadist]

Talking about people remembering battleworld...

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Ms. Marvel remembers that the world was ending; She referenced it when she talks about Bruno and her having a moment in volume 1. I guess most heroes will remember just that and not Battleworld itself

Regarding the ending...

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I don't consider Reed a god, but more of an historian working with Molecule Man to bring back the universe. He might be... "free" to sculpt some worlds but overall he and Malcolm try to restore balance.

 

[ghostmind]

Hopefully we get the rest of the SHIELD series soon - Hickman will hopefully be back in the MU sooner than later.

 

[IHaveIce]

Hickman has to come back. honestly I don't want another writer on the FFs for a while.

Also he is the only one to to write about future Franklin and Valeria, and they still have immense potential

 

[Neoxon]

The way Secret Wars ended was just fantastic (no pun intended). The explanation for Miles being brought over was also amazing (again, no pun intended).

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He got his mother back thanks to a cheeseburger, that's just awesome.

 

[Sou Da]

Talking about people remembering battleworld...

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Ms. Marvel remembers that the world was ending; She referenced it when she talks about Bruno and her having a moment in volume 1. I guess most heroes will remember just that and not Battleworld itself

Regarding the ending...

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I don't consider Reed a god, but more of an historian working with Molecule Man to bring back the universe. He might be... "free" to sculpt some worlds but overall he and Malcolm try to restore balance.

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It's shown in other books that the most of the MU saw the incursions coming and then they just suddenly stopped for them.

 

[Neoxon]

Well regarding the 616 stuff,

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everyone saw that the Marvel Universe was now called "The Prime Universe" near the end of the issue

.

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That honestly seems like a better name for the main Marvel Universe than Earth-616.

 

[PsychBat!]

Hopefully we get the rest of the SHIELD series soon - Hickman will hopefully be back in the MU sooner than later.

Oh man I hope so. I love SHIELD.

 

[Sinatar]

Absolutely fantastic ending. Definitely a very Hickman ending too.

Well hey, now that the event is finally over I guess they can finally move this thread to community! Oh... right.

 

[Parallax]

It feels good to be FF fan right now. Real good.

bittersweet, but i feel you.

 

[PsychBat!]

Absolutely fantastic ending. Definitely a very Hickman ending too.

Well hey, now that the event is finally over I guess they can finally move this thread to community! Oh... right.

I'm still salty that this got moved within two months and the ANAD thread is still going.

 

[duckroll]

Damn, that ending shows that Hickman totally understands the nature of the Fantastic Four and the relationship between Reed and Doom better than any other Marvel writer today.

I feel vindicated.

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The extra touch that maybe Reed could only have done what he did and be better at it than Doom in the end because Doom did it -first- and Reed learned from his mistakes is so fucking good. They've always been competitors, often seeking the same thing by different means, and the fact that they complete each other and push the other to be better is what makes the entire story amazing.

Edit: I'm moving the thread back to OT for at least 2 weeks. Since the event is FINALLY over, it's valid to get more eyeballs if people are looking for a place to discuss the event itself.

 

[Mudcrab]

bittersweet, but i feel you.

This right here but I can't imagine a more fitting tribute.

I feel vindicated.

Damn you called it alright.

Edit: I'm moving the thread back to OT for at least 2 weeks. Since the event is FINALLY over, it's valid to get more eyeballs if people are looking for a place to discuss the event itself.

and thank you duckroll.

 

[Deleted member 13876]

Edit: I'm moving the thread back to OT for at least 2 weeks. Since the event is FINALLY over, it's valid to get more eyeballs if people are looking for a place to discuss the event itself.

Awesome.

 

[Jack Remington]

I think I'm going to do a re-read of the entire run soon.

I wish we could have gotten one with no interference from really stupid outside events. No AXIS. No Steve suddenly being old. No Thor suddenly being unworthy (though Hickman admirably managed to work through this one).

It is really, really jarring to be reading a series about the team dealing with incursions and a parallel series about Avengers worlds and whatnot and then suddenly, hey, Tony Stark is evil, and hey, Steve is old and Falcon is Cap now, and no one even mentions any of this shit.

Just wish we could see what it would have been like if Hickman had been the only person doing universe-wide events during those two years.

Edit: Based duckroll! GOAT mod.

 

[mreddie]

Didn't Hickman skipped AXIS with the Months Later thing?

 

[Deleted member 13876]

I think I'm going to do a re-read of the entire run soon.

I wish we could have gotten one with no interference from really stupid outside events. No AXIS. No Steve suddenly being old. No Thor suddenly being unworthy (though Hickman admirably managed to work through this one).

It is really, really jarring to be reading a series about the team dealing with incursions and a parallel series about Avengers worlds and whatnot and then suddenly, hey, Tony Stark is evil, and hey, Steve is old and Falcon is Cap now, and no one even mentions any of this shit.

Just wish we could see what it would have been like if Hickman had been the only person doing universe-wide events during those two years.

Edit: Based duckroll! GOAT mod.

AXIS proved not everyone can work within these constraints. I think he did a great job to pull some meaningful character moments from those things even if they weren't ideal.

 

[thetrin]

Haven't read #9 yet, but I have it, and I'm so ready for it.

The unfortunate side effect of living in the Japanese time zone.

 

[Jack Remington]

Didn't Hickman skipped AXIS with the Months Later thing?

You still had to read up on it to understand what was going on, and Tony was still inverted IIRC.

 

[The Silver]

I think I'm going to do a re-read of the entire run soon.

I wish we could have gotten one with no interference from really stupid outside events. No AXIS. No Steve suddenly being old. No Thor suddenly being unworthy (though Hickman admirably managed to work through this one).

It is really, really jarring to be reading a series about the team dealing with incursions and a parallel series about Avengers worlds and whatnot and then suddenly, hey, Tony Stark is evil, and hey, Steve is old and Falcon is Cap now, and no one even mentions any of this shit.

Just wish we could see what it would have been like if Hickman had been the only person doing universe-wide events during those two years.

Edit: Based duckroll! GOAT mod.

So how bout that phoenix egg?

 

[duckroll]

I don't think it's really fair to look at it from a "what could Hickman have done if no one else were writing Marvel comics" perspective, because for better or for worse, it is a collective world. Hickman would not be able to tell this story if there wasn't a collective universe to begin with, and no one wrote all that alone. That's the nature of comic crossovers and events. Hickman has handled this better than probably anyone else in the past few decades, but without a playground created by so many others to begin with, it wouldn't be the same.

Even the ending itself hints at that concept.

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Hickman happily accepts that he is Reed and that while he is a planner and a mastermind, he can't build universes alone or they lose all meaning. Some of you just want him to be Doom instead.

 

[Mudcrab]

So how bout that phoenix egg?

Hickman gave the dude an 8 month time skip and dealt with the inversions and Odinson stuff and Bendis still couldn't help out with the Nation X/Phoenix Egg.

I don't think it's really fair to look at it from a "what could Hickman have done if no one else were writing Marvel comics" perspective, because for better or for worse, it is a collective world. Hickman would not be able to tell this story if there wasn't a collective universe to begin with, and no one wrote all that alone. That's the nature of comic crossovers and events. Hickman has handled this better than probably anyone else in the past few decades, but without a playground created by so many others to begin with, it wouldn't be the same.

Even the ending itself hints at that concept.

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Hickman happily accepts that he is Reed and that while he is a planner and a mastermind, he can't build universes alone or they lose all meaning. Some of you just want him to be Doom instead.

These are fair points and really if you read the interview Kid Kamikaze posted above, along with the others from CBR, it gives pretty good insight into the various summits they had while planning things out.

 

[Sou Da]

These are fair points and really if you read the interview Kid Kamikaze posted above, along with the others from CBR, it gives pretty good insight into the various summits they had while planning things out.

Bendis just sat those out huh?