Marvel's The Avengers |OT| (Dir. Joss Whedon) [Spoilers unmarked]

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#51
I'm not into comic at all so this might be a stupid question but why no Edward Norton as Hulk?
He doesn't exactly have the personality required for an ensemble film like this. If you see behind the scenes for this film, you can see how the cast genuinely like and get along very well with each other. That likely won't happen if Ed Norton was in the cast. He's well-known to be prickly and uncooperative with director and cast members.
 
#53
Plus Ed Norton claims to have gotten the short end of the stick during the production of The Incredible Hulk.
By that, he means he wanted to decide the final cut of the movie but Marvel didn't want to give it to him since he's an actor not director.

Ed Norton is known for being difficult to work with IIRC.
 
#56
He doesn't exactly have the personality required for an ensemble film like this. If you see behind the scenes for this film, you can see how the cast genuinely like and get along very well with each other. That likely won't happen if Ed Norton was in the cast. He's well-known to be prickly and uncooperative with director and cast members.


Sure seems that way to me.

And no, it's cause Marvel hired him to redo the script and have editorial input, but then changed their mind when they were paranoid they'd get another Ang Lee film instead of an action oriented one.

Doesn't matter as Ruffalo is doing a great job.

Point is, Feige does make mistakes sometimes. He was notoriously tight on the budget for this film. Whedon at one point had to go ahead with something and hope they liked it and realize they'd have to spend some money or fire him. He ended up getting the extra cash he wanted.
 
#57
Point is, Feige does make mistakes sometimes. He was notoriously tight on the budget for this film. Whedon at one point had to go ahead with something and hope they liked it and realize they'd have to spend some money or fire him. He ended up getting the extra cash he wanted.
Whoa, source?
 
#60


Sure seems that way to me.

And no, it's cause Marvel hired him to redo the script and have editorial input, but then changed their mind when they were paranoid they'd get another Ang Lee film instead of an action oriented one.
LOL. No one said he has no friends in the industry. It doesn't mean he's easy to work with. And you don't need big ego in an ensemble film like this.

http://www.nerve.com/entertainment/...s-you-should-never-fight-for-creative-control

He's the kind of actor who wants to have complete control of many aspect of the film process, which would have been fine if the director and producer are in collaborative state of mind but if they are not, then it'd be just conflict after conflict. These kind of reputation don't just stick on an actor for no reason. It builds up over the course of their career. Also asks yourself as to why he hasn't got many film roles lately despite having an arguably good talent in acting. Also, note that the actors listed on that page are famously known to be hard to work with and not surprisingly their career hasn't exactly been illustrious lately.
 
#62
LOL. No one said he has no friends in the industry. It doesn't mean he's easy to work with. And you don't need big ego in an ensemble film like this.

http://www.nerve.com/entertainment/...s-you-should-never-fight-for-creative-control

He's the kind of actor who wants to have complete control of many aspect of the film process, which would have been fine if the director and producer are in collaborative state of mind but if they are not, then it'd be just conflict after conflict. These kind of reputation don't just stick on an actor for no reason. It builds up over the course of their career. Also asks yourself as to why he hasn't got many film roles lately despite having an arguably good talent in acting. Also, note that the actors listed on that page are famously known to be hard to work with and not surprisingly their career hasn't exactly been illustrious lately.
Then ask yourself, why would Marvel even consider asking him to rewrite the script, knowing how they reacted to Ang Lee's version of the Hulk?

For that kind of reputation, why would Marvel even consider it?

As far as why he hasn't gotten many film roles, that's a no brainer.

He's more interested in directing/script writing, which is why he did a comicbook film in the first place. He's been working on Motherless Brooklyn which he'll be writing/directing/starring in. Everything else has been projects for friends or things he's really interested in.

Besides, Norton and Letterier got along great. There's plenty of reports where collaborated well, it's when Marvel decided to get involved and become a third director that things went to the crapper quick.
 
#64
Dies Iræ;37057689 said:
Whoa, source?
http://io9.com/5681811/is-marvel-nickel+and+diming-the-avengers-to-death

Could Joss Whedon's Avengers movie already be in trouble? That's what some inside sources are claiming. Marvel is reportedly trying to squeeze costs on the film, leading to delays — and some key behind-the-scenes people have already walked away.

The rumor comes from Bleeding Cool's Rich Johnston, who has a pretty decent track record in these sorts of areas. Plus, as Johnston points out, Marvel has a record of being tight-fisted — they got Robert Downey Jr. for an ultra-low salary in Iron Man, they dumped the expensive Terrence Howard for Iron Man 2 and reportedly offered Mickey Rourke just $250,000 to be in the film. And rumor has it they won't hire Jon Favreau to direct another movie because he's too expensive, and they almost didn't hire him for Iron Man 2. So it does have the ring of truth.

How cheap is Marvel being? According to Johnston, they want The Avengers to cost about as much as the first Spider-Man film, at least in real terms. That's $139 million in 2002 dollars, or around $160 million in today's dollars. So, not cheap, but on the low end for a summer blockbuster — especially given that Downey Jr. is probably charging a higher rate these days, and there are several other stars in the film. Adds Johnston:

Some people say it can't be done. Others say it can be done – even if then, in certain well heeled Los Angeles bars, they assure each other that it can't. And while some people have walked off the project, others are planning a longer game. Basically do the work, then when they run out of budget (which they believe they will) trust that Marvel Studios and their investors will pony up the extra necessary cash rather than leave the movie unfinished.
So let's hope that Johnston's sources are wrong — or that Marvel loosens the purse strings. Joss Whedon is the master of getting a lot done for very little money, but even he can't work miracles,
 
#65
Then ask yourself, why would Marvel even consider asking him to rewrite the script, knowing how they reacted to Ang Lee's version of the Hulk?

For that kind of reputation, why would Marvel even consider it?
I'd say Marvel likely let him wrote the script in the hope of appeasing him but when they balk over the script's direction, they want to get off and he didn't take it kindly. You seriously think Marvel is going to make a 2nd Hulk movie that runs as long as Norton wanted it while the 1st one didn't even do a good business in the first place? I know it's popular to side with the artistic direction but at the end of the day film making is also a business and you can't run a business losing money.

Moreover, it's not the first time Norton insinuated himself into production role while he's supposed to be *acting*. If he wants to do writing then he should do it properly via the right channel. It's unprofessional for an actor to refuse promotional work for a film just because your script wasn't accepted. Think about it. His role in the film first and foremost was an actor. Not a scriptwriter. Being an actor means he's obligated to do all the promotional work associated with it and that's not writing the script.

He's more interested in directing/script writing, which is why he did a comicbook film in the first place. He's been working on Motherless Brooklyn which he'll be writing/directing/starring in. Everything else has been projects for friends or things he's really interested in.
He did a comic book film as an actor. He should check what being an actor actually means. Yeah work with friends. You know what they say about people like that? It's usually because he can't work well with other people. As a result, only his friends tolerated him.
 
#66
The trailers/teasers have done nothing for more, nor have they given me the slightest idea of what this is about outside of "let's make a bunch of money." And everything seems to have been shot like a non-cinematic television show. Bleh
The only thing I got from the umpteen trailers/teasers is that RDJ is a smart-ass (again) and there is one street in the US that gets exploded over and over again. I hope there is more than one set piece because thats all you see in the trailers.


looking forward to it though, enjoyed the other movies leading up to this - probably seeing it next Thursday after work.
 
#68
Re: Norton

Marvel hired him to star and to rewrite Zak Penn's script. When the movie went into post, Norton lobbied for final cut. Marvel said no because: a) that wasn't his job, and b) Norton's cut would have been 2.5 hour character piece, while Marvel wanted a shorter, leaner action movie. When Norton didn't get his way, he refused to promote the movie.

The producer that Norton butted heads with wasn't actually Kevin Feige, but some other guy whose name I can't recall and who ended up leaving Marvel a little bit later. Norton was open to returning for the Avengers since the main guy he didn't get along with was gone, but Marvel didn't want a repeat of the situation especially since on a movie like the Avengers where there's already a bunch of variables in play as it is. That, and Ruffalo was Whedon's pick for Banner anyway.
 
#69
I'd say Marvel likely let him wrote the script in the hope of appeasing him but when they balk over the script's direction, they want to get off and he didn't take it kindly. You seriously think Marvel is going to make a 2nd Hulk movie that runs as long as Norton wanted it while the 1st one didn't even do a good business in the first place? I know it's popular to side with the artistic direction but at the end of the day film making is also a business and you can't run a business losing money.
Well at least we can both agree that a long run time is counterproductive to making the most money with showings...

Moreover, it's not the first time Norton insinuated himself into production role while he's supposed to be *acting*. If he wants to do writing then he should do it properly via the right channel. It's unprofessional for an actor to refuse promotional work for a film just because your script wasn't accepted. Think about it. His role in the film first and foremost was an actor. Not a scriptwriter. Being an actor means he's obligated to do all the promotional work associated with it and that's not writing the script.
.. except here we disagree again.

The fact is, he was hired to rewrite and have editorial input. So it's hardly "just being hired to act" Marvel was very unprofessional, and as we've seen repeatedly, they penny pinch and upset cast and directors alike. Or to put it your way, it's not the first time Marvel has made some stupid decisions.

As far as promotions go, that's amusing revisionist history. CGI wasn't finished until a week or two before release date. This is because Marvel received a longer film and freaked out and went nuts arguing with Letterier and Norton over what to cut. As a result, more time was spent editing and arguing than promotion.

Also, Norton had to move onto other projects, so you can hardly place all the blame at his doorstep. Marvel knew when they hired him he had other commitments as well. Marvel doesn't want to take ANY of the blame for a Hulk movie as you'll see by Fiege continuing to make decisions like not making another Hulk film despite the character stealing the show in this one.

Regardless, you're flat out wrong about Norton being only an actor. Did you even see the original screenplay?

He did a comic book film as an actor. He should check what being an actor actually means. Yeah work with friends. You know what they say about people like that? It's usually because he can't work well with other people. As a result, only his friends tolerated him.
Y'know, this whole fanboy spat thing is endlessly amusing, but it's crapping up an otherwise fun thread. Can we split this discussion off if we have to keep it going?

Again, Norton was brought on to rewrite the script, which is hardly just being hired as an actor.

I suppose all actors who choose projects wisely like Daniel Day Lewis and Leonardo DiCaprio are just primadonnas who don't work well with others. Whereas guys who will sign onto projects without reading them aren't.

It's not as black and white as you make it out to be. But if that's how you see things, no amount of reasoning is going to convince you otherwise.
 
#70
Re: Norton

Marvel hired him to star and to rewrite Zak Penn's script. When the movie went into post, Norton lobbied for final cut. Marvel said no because: a) that wasn't his job, and b) Norton's cut would have been 2.5 hour character piece, while Marvel wanted a shorter, leaner action movie. When Norton didn't get his way, he refused to promote the movie.

The producer that Norton butted heads with wasn't actually Kevin Feige, but some other guy whose name I can't recall and who ended up leaving Marvel a little bit later. Norton was open to returning for the Avengers since the main guy he didn't get along with was gone, but Marvel didn't want a repeat of the situation especially since on a movie like the Avengers where there's already a bunch of variables in play as it is. That, and Ruffalo was Whedon's pick for Banner anyway.
This is true.

But still, Feige has made some poor decisions in the past, while excelling in others.

And yeah, Marvel and Whedon both wanted Ruffalo, and they're right in this case.
 
#73
Also, Norton had to move onto other projects, so you can hardly place all the blame at his doorstep. Marvel knew when they hired him he had other commitments as well. Marvel doesn't want to take ANY of the blame for a Hulk movie as you'll see by Fiege continuing to make decisions like not making another Hulk film despite the character stealing the show in this one.
Huh. Is it their fault that Norton can't manage his time? Maybe if he hadn't busy arguing about what should or should not be in the final cut (which is not his job in the first place), he'd actually have time to promote the film.

Y'know, this whole fanboy spat thing is endlessly amusing, but it's crapping up an otherwise fun thread. Can we split this discussion off if we have to keep it going?
Eh, you're the one who's fanboying him. And you seem convinced that it's professional to refuse to promote a film despite getting paid for it as an actor and I don't agree. So at least you're right in that there's nothing left to talk about.

I suppose all actors who choose projects wisely like Daniel Day Lewis and Leonardo DiCaprio are just primadonnas who don't work well with others. Whereas guys who will sign onto projects without reading them aren't.
The last time I checked, DDD and Leo are still working in lots of quality projects whereas the only thing resembling good quality in Norton's future plate is the next Bourne film.
 
#81
Yeah, guys. Lets discuss a film that nobody will see for another 3 weeks.
Technically that's not true since I'm seeing it next week and it opens wide next week as well for most countries other than US and Japan. But I don't understand why we have to confine our discussion about the film within a week before the movie's release.
 
#82
Technically that's not true since I'm seeing it next week and it opens wide next week as well for most countries other than US. But I don't understand why we have to confine our discussion about the film within a week before the movie's release.
No, I agree with you. I was being facetious in regards to the guy complaining about fanboy ranting.
 
#90
I think Norton would have been a bigger draw and that would have created a little more excitement for the film. I wanted him in the film and was disappointed he was not in it. That being said I think Ruffalo will do a good job. None of us know all the details behind what happened with Norton and and Marvel studios so I'm going to refrain from blaming one side or the other.
 
#91
I think Norton would have been a bigger draw and that would have created a little more excitement for the film. I wanted him in the film and was disappointed he was not in it. That being said I think Ruffalo will do a good job. None of us know all the details behind what happened with Norton and and Marvel studios so I'm going to refrain from blaming one side or the other.
Post-salma norton is not as interesting.
 
Looks like The Daily Telegraph broke the review embargo:

Not only is The Avengers the superhero movie we had to have.

It is the superhero movie you have to see.

This truly epic action picture positively pulses with panache, wit and excitement throughout.

Upcoming US summer blockbusters such as The Dark Knight Rises and The Amazing Spider-Man had better be at the peak of their powers to match the absolute blast that is The Avengers.
 
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