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Mask Efficacy |OT| Wuhan!! Got You All In Check

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N

nbcjr

Member
llien said:
Remind me, what is the Swedish strategy again?
www.bbc.com

Coronavirus: Why Dutch lockdown may be a high-risk strategy

As coronavirus spreads rapidly the Dutch official stance has been criticised as cold-hearted.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com



A shame if she's not fired.
Click to expand...
www.thesun.co.uk

Top medic stripped of duties and removed from TV after 2nd trip to holiday home

SCOTLAND’S chief medical officer has resigned after being caught flouting coronavirus lockdown rules with trips to her holiday home. Dr Catherine Calderwood, 51, was pictured walking with he…
www.thesun.co.uk www.thesun.co.uk
 
prag16

prag16

Banned
Cybrwzrd said:
Lincoln stripped Habaes Corpus rights during the Civil War.

Being told to stay indoors to protect yourselves and others is not even in the same universe as that.

Mind you, if you "muh freedomz" folks want to bitch about being told to stay indoors, I'd support the military being used to detain "muh freedomz" folks who refuse to follow the rules. And there is precedent for that.
Click to expand...
Yeah I'm sure everyone the left would be super thrilled with Trump declaring martial law and even delaying the election. That'll go over just great.

No, there's no real precedent for this particular situation in United States history. We're in uncharted waters when it comes to these kinds of drastic measures to 'contain' (or whatever they're calling the efforts this week) a virus.

I just hope Sweden stays the course. The world (at least those not yet joining in with the mass hysteria) is counting in you, Swedes.
 
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cryptoadam

cryptoadam

Banned
So Canada has done 330K tests. Its pretty close to 1% of our population. We will be there by tomorrow.

Is that enough of a survey to make a rough estimate of how many people are infected? This would put Canada at about 1.5 million people infected (and 307 deaths).
 
D

dionysus

Yaldog
cryptoadam said:
So Canada has done 330K tests. Its pretty close to 1% of our population. We will be there by tomorrow.

Is that enough of a survey to make a rough estimate of how many people are infected? This would put Canada at about 1.5 million people infected (and 307 deaths).
Click to expand...

Only if they tested people at random could you extrapolate to the entire population, instead of symptomatic people.
 
Sakura

Sakura

Member
cryptoadam said:
So Canada has done 330K tests. Its pretty close to 1% of our population. We will be there by tomorrow.

Is that enough of a survey to make a rough estimate of how many people are infected? This would put Canada at about 1.5 million people infected (and 307 deaths).
Click to expand...
It's not random testing so no. It's not a survey. 330k tests also doesn't mean 330k people.
 
cryptoadam

cryptoadam

Banned
Anyone find it odd that almost all countries had a peak on March 24th? They all were at all time high or close to it that for reported cases.
 
betrayal

betrayal

Banned
DragoonKain said:
I’m not saying the article is wrong. I just find it ironic that patient zero came from eating a bat or pangolin. So it was transferred via food at its inception.
Click to expand...

I think it is more or less certain that the virus was certainly not transmitted to humans by eating a bat. No idea why this nonsense still persists among many people and in any case the first transmission to humans was certainly not through eating.
 
makaveli60

makaveli60

Member
Very interesting read about this whole situation the world is in right now and the consequences for the future. I suppose most of you will find this bullshit, but a few might value it:
https://www. eque dia. com/ the-conspiracies-behind-covid-19-and-how-it-will-change-your-financial-future/
Delete the spaces from the link to open it.
 
Alx

Alx

Member
DragoonKain said:
After this pandemic is over, we really need to divert some defense spending on keeping these hospitals fully stocked with everything they need for another pandemic. We need to be prepared for not just another coronavirus, but for something worse. All hospitals need to have enough beds, masks, ventilators, catheters, IV bags, gloves, etc to cope with all this.

I think global warming is going to make these more frequent, with animal species migration and packing certain breeds in areas together where they weren't used to, we'll see more animal infection spreads, which eventually will make their way to humans.
Click to expand...

I don't think being completely ready is feasible in the long term, at the peak of the epidemy you would need 10 or 50 times the usual amount of ICU beds, which means that in a regular situation you'd have 90% of those gathering dust. And sooner or later someone will say "we don't need those any more, there is other stuff that needs funding too" (that's what happened in many European countries, where the stocks of masks created after H1N1 were destroyed and not renewed)
There should definitely be more beds and stocks in general in most countries, but most importantly there should be a plan to quickly increase production of whatever critical device is needed (today it is ventilators, tomorrow it will be something else). Also have better training of the population so they know to switch to "safe mode" at the drop of a hat.
 
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betrayal

betrayal

Banned
A short update on the doubling rates (the higher the better). The doubling rates and the development of this number reflect quite well the situation of the countries and their current position on the timeline of this crisis. The number in brackets was the doubling time on 31 March. Green means a plus of at least two days. Red means no or even a negative change.

Turkey: 5 (+1 up from 4 days)
US: 6 (+1 up from 5 days)
UK: 6 (+1 up from 5 days )
Canada: 6 (+1 up from 5 days)
Brazil: 6 (already was 6 days)
Poland: 7 (+1 up from 6 days)
France: 7 days (already was 7 days)
Belgium: 8 (+3 up from 5 days)
Denmark: 9 (-1 down from 10 days)
Netherlands: 9 (+3 up from 6 days)
Spain: 9 (+3 up from 6 days)
Australia: 10 (+4 up from 6 days)
Finland: 10 (+2 up from 8 days)
Germany: 10 (+3 up from 7 days)
Switzerland: 12 (+4 up from 8 days)
Italy: 13 (+3 up from 10 days)
South Korea: 34 (+6 up from 28 days)
 
Jezbollah

Jezbollah

Member
I was chatting to a friend from South Africa yesterday. things are soooo fucked there.

If it wasn't bad enough that cigarettes and alcohol sales have been banned, they've been deploying the Army to go into townships. There have been three people shot dead by them for not adhering to the lockdown.
 
autoduelist

autoduelist

Member
Been watching a lot of vids from across the spectrum.

My gut feeling at this point:

Corona deaths are being somewhat overreported to some degree, as skeptics claim.
However, both sides are correct to a degree. There are still plenty of legit corona deaths.

I think we are seeing a lot of people with preexisting conditions die quickly, meaning we are frontloading many deaths that would normally be spread over a year or two [cancer, etc] into a couple month time frame. This is causing a huge spike in deaths, but most are simply 'quickened'. We also have just enough 'healthy' victims to put the fear in us, but not as many as our worst fears might think. I put healthy in single quotes because we hear '30 year old'and think young and healthy, but we have no idea if they actually had some undiagnosed issue like cancer in at least some cases, and i doubt they have time for full autopsies at this point.

If i am correct, i think we will see a huge spike, but far less 'natural' deaths over the next two years or so. We will also likely have a wave 2 when people venture outside again, but that is unavoidable.

I consider this best case scenario. While it is never good to lose those we love early, if i am correct this means we're a bit safer than expected.

I also think it is worth remembering for every death, there are many people who were asymptomatic or recovered from a non-fatal doozy.... either way, this means there are a lot of immune people already, and the sooner we can identify them the better, because perhaps we can use those people as frontline volunteers for high spread risk jobs [food prep, whatever].

Note this doesn't mean i think this is nothing to worry about. I don't want it, and i wish all the safest of times. Social distancing makes sense. But i don't think we should be giving up our rights, etc. It does mean i think this will pass faster than we think, and we're engaging in a bit of the old mass hysteria, just this time more justified than normal.

So... way worse than the flu, but about the best case scenario for a world wide pandemic if we had to have one - highly contagious, low mortality rate with the illusion of high mortality rate. Opinion subject to change, it already did once to get me to this point.

Its interesting to see people react. Tim pool, normally pretty level headed, has gone a little off the deep end on this one. I definitely think he's stuck in worst case scenario mode. I think we're gonna be alright.
 
womfalcs3

womfalcs3

Banned
betrayal said:
A short update on the doubling rates (the higher the better). The doubling rates and the development of this number reflect quite well the situation of the countries and their current position on the timeline of this crisis. The number in brackets was the doubling time on 31 March. Green means a plus of at least two days. Red means no or even a negative change.

Turkey: 5 (+1 up from 4 days)
US: 6 (+1 up from 5 days)
UK: 6 (+1 up from 5 days )
Canada: 6 (+1 up from 5 days)
Brazil: 6 (already was 6 days)
Poland: 7 (+1 up from 6 days)
France: 7 days (already was 7 days)
Belgium: 8 (+3 up from 5 days)
Denmark: 9 (-1 down from 10 days)
Netherlands: 9 (+3 up from 6 days)
Spain: 9 (+3 up from 6 days)
Australia: 10 (+4 up from 6 days)
Finland: 10 (+2 up from 8 days)
Germany: 10 (+3 up from 7 days)
Switzerland: 12 (+4 up from 8 days)
Italy: 13 (+3 up from 10 days)
South Korea: 34 (+6 up from 28 days)
Click to expand...

Doubling rates are basically dX/dt*1/X, where X is the number of infections and t is days. As you can see, as the number of infections rise, it's easier to get long doubling times. The doubling time can decline as the actual rate (dX/dt) is rising.
 
D

darkinstinct

...lacks reading comprehension.
betrayal said:
A short update on the doubling rates (the higher the better). The doubling rates and the development of this number reflect quite well the situation of the countries and their current position on the timeline of this crisis. The number in brackets was the doubling time on 31 March. Green means a plus of at least two days. Red means no or even a negative change.

Turkey: 5 (+1 up from 4 days)
US: 6 (+1 up from 5 days)
UK: 6 (+1 up from 5 days )
Canada: 6 (+1 up from 5 days)
Brazil: 6 (already was 6 days)
Poland: 7 (+1 up from 6 days)
France: 7 days (already was 7 days)
Belgium: 8 (+3 up from 5 days)
Denmark: 9 (-1 down from 10 days)
Netherlands: 9 (+3 up from 6 days)
Spain: 9 (+3 up from 6 days)
Australia: 10 (+4 up from 6 days)
Finland: 10 (+2 up from 8 days)
Germany: 10 (+3 up from 7 days)
Switzerland: 12 (+4 up from 8 days)
Italy: 13 (+3 up from 10 days)
South Korea: 34 (+6 up from 28 days)
Click to expand...

Doubling rates are an early indicator, but really the only important number is daily new cases. If you still have 4.500 new cases a day, then it doesn't matter if you double every 13 days. It's also disingenious to compare the number of new infections with the number of cured people per day. That might be an indication for how much stress those new cases put on the health system (but the Italian health system is already stressed), but it doesn't allow you to realistically measure the crisis. If/when the daily new numbers drop below 10 per day is when you can realistically lower restrictions, because then you still have the possibility to track all their contacts. But make no mistake, the moment that number rises again the measures have to return, at least in the affected regions. And some stuff like stadiums and universities, basically everything where loads of people meet with no ability to control them, will be closed until there is a vaccine, there is no other solution.
 
betrayal

betrayal

Banned
womfalcs3 said:
Doubling rates are basically dX/dt*1/X, where X is the number of infections and t is days. As you can see, as the number of infections rise, it's easier to get long doubling times. The doubling time can decline as the actual rate (dX/dt) is rising.
Click to expand...

That is true, but dX and dt alone do not mean anything. The virus usually has an exponential growth. So it doesn't matter if you have 10, 100, 1,000, even 10,000 cases a day. Doubling time is a measure of exponential growth in the sense of how fast it's growing. If not slowed down, i.e. without countermeasures, the doubling time would now be two days, one day or even less.

Regarding exponential growth and why doubling time is an important indicator:
"...exponential growth curves are deceptive. Our minds evolved in a linear world, and we don’t fully ‘grok’ things that are exponential.

For reference, please remember the following:
  • Double something 10 times and its 1,000 x bigger.
  • Double something 20 times and its 1 million x bigger.
  • Double something 30 times and its 1 billion x bigger.
..."

Source: https://www.diamandis.com/blog/coronavirus-exponential-implications


darkinstinct said:
Doubling rates are an early indicator, but really the only important number is daily new cases. If you still have 4.500 new cases a day, then it doesn't matter if you double every 13 days. It's also disingenious to compare the number of new infections with the number of cured people per day. That might be an indication for how much stress those new cases put on the health system (but the Italian health system is already stressed), but it doesn't allow you to realistically measure the crisis. If/when the daily new numbers drop below 10 per day is when you can realistically lower restrictions, because then you still have the possibility to track all their contacts. But make no mistake, the moment that number rises again the measures have to return, at least in the affected regions. And some stuff like stadiums and universities, basically everything where loads of people meet with no ability to control them, will be closed until there is a vaccine, there is no other solution.
Click to expand...

The example with "If you still have 4,500 new cases a day, then it doesn't matter if you double every 13 days." makes no sense without context. The US would be happy if it only had 4,500 cases per day. This would mean that the virus would vanish and the health care system would be able to cope with this minimal impact.

As already mentioned, the doubling period is an indicator that allows conclusions to be drawn about how the development is. The Doubling time of COVID-19 allows for a comparison of the success of containment measures. The individual case numbers per day, on the other hand, do not say anything at all, because they alone are not in a meaningful context and ultimately say very little.

If the doubling duration increases, then the growth rate, another important number, automatically decreases. In contrast to the growth rate, however, the doubling time, together with the current situation of the health care system, which is known to everyone in their respective countries, provides a reliable indication of whether the virus leads to an overload of the health care system or not.
 
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womfalcs3

womfalcs3

Banned
betrayal said:
That is true, but dX and dt alone do not mean anything. The virus usually has an exponential growth. So it doesn't matter if you have 10, 100, 1,000, even 10,000 cases a day. Doubling time is a measure of exponential growth in the sense of how fast it's growing. If not slowed down, i.e. without countermeasures, the doubling time would now be two days, one day or even less.

Regarding exponential growth and why doubling time is an important indicator:
"...exponential growth curves are deceptive. Our minds evolved in a linear world, and we don’t fully ‘grok’ things that are exponential.

For reference, please remember the following:
  • Double something 10 times and its 1,000 x bigger.
  • Double something 20 times and its 1 million x bigger.
  • Double something 30 times and its 1 billion x bigger.
..."

Source: https://www.diamandis.com/blog/coronavirus-exponential-implications




As already mentioned, the doubling period is an indicator that allows conclusions to be drawn about how the development is. The Doubling time of COVID-19 allows for a comparison of the success of containment measures. The individual case numbers per day, on the other hand, do not say anything at all, because they alone are not in a meaningful context and ultimately say very little.

If the doubling duration increases, then the growth rate, another important number, automatically decreases. In contrast to the growth rate, however, the doubling duration, together with the current situation of the health care system, which is known to everyone in their respective countries, provides a reliable indication of whether the virus leads to an overload of the health care system or not.
Click to expand...

Viruses don't have exponential growth during their infectious cycle. You can say it has exponential growth only in the first half of the cumulative curve, but it really has a logistic curve throughout the cumulative curve.

So dX/dt, and by extension the second derivative, does matter, because you want the inflection point at some point.
 
betrayal

betrayal

Banned
womfalcs3 said:
Viruses don't have exponential growth during their infectious cycle. You can say it has exponential growth only in the first half of the cumulative curve, but it really has a logistic curve throughout the cumulative curve.

So dX/dt, and by extension the second derivative, does matter, because you want the inflection point at some point.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's right. But the fight against the spread of the virus right now really is only about the first half of the increase (exponential growth).
And fortunately, the measures taken against the first half of the increase (exponential) are also effective for the curve after the exponential increase. In other words, if we are able to stop the exponential growth, then we are also able to flatten the curve towards the end.
 
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H

hariseldon

Unconfirmed Member
www.thetimes.co.uk

Britain has millions of coronavirus antibody tests, but they don’t work

None of the antibody tests ordered by the government is good enough to use, the new testing chief has admitted.John Newton said that tests ordered from China were able to identify immunity accurately only in people who had been severely ill and that Britain was no longer hoping to buy millions of ki
www.thetimes.co.uk www.thetimes.co.uk

China fucking everyone again.

Britain has millions of coronavirus antibody tests, but they don’t work

None of the antibody tests ordered by the government is good enough to use, the new testing chief has admitted.

Professor John Newton said that tests ordered from China were able to identify immunity accurately only in people who had been severely ill and that Britain was no longer hoping to buy millions of kits off the shelf.

Instead, government scientists hope to work with companies to improve the performance of antibody tests and Professor Newton said he was “optimistic” that one would come good in months.

However, Dame Deirdre Hine, the public health expert who chaired an official review that criticised failures of modelling in the 2009 swine flu pandemic, said that it was “difficult to understand” why the government had not planned for more testing.


Meanwhile, the scientist tasked with evaluating the antibody tests for the government said that it will be “at least a month” until one is good enough to offer to millions of people.

Professor Sir John Bell, regius professor of medicine at the University of Oxford, said: “Sadly, the tests we have looked at to date have not performed well. We see many false negatives (tests where no antibody is detected despite the fact we know it is there) and we also see false positives.

“None of the tests we have validated would meet the criteria for a good test as agreed with the MHRA [Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency]. This is not a good result for test suppliers or for us.”

Sir John acknowledged that “large-scale testing is therefore a strategy which will be crucial for getting us back to our normal lives in the coming months”. He said: “The government will be working with suppliers both new and old to try and deliver this result so we can scale up antibody testing for the British public. This will take at least a month.”

Professor Newton, of Public Health England, was appointed to oversee testing last week as Matt Hancock, the health secretary, responded to criticism of the failure to increase checks quickly enough by promising to use private labs and hit 100,000 daily tests this month.

Professor Newton said that his priority was three “mega labs” for testing NHS staff and that he did not expect university and commercial labs to be much help in hitting the target.

“That’s a very clear message: we are not relying on lots of people coming forward to help us to achieve what’s required and we shouldn’t get too distracted by that,” he said. “There’s a big, big ask at the moment which is quite specific [on testing NHS staff]. So a lot of these companies who are offering their capacity may not be directly related to that ask and therefore they might not be as helpful at the moment.”

The antigen test to see who has the virus will be crucial in allowing NHS staff back to work if they do not have the virus, and a separate test that tells who has recovered from infection is seen as crucial to ending the lockdown.

The government has ordered millions of antibody tests but yesterday Mr Hancock said that “we still don’t have any that are good enough”.

Professor Newton said that all of the tests failed evaluations and “are not good enough to be worth rolling out in very large scale”.

Some of the tests have not been total failures, but Professor Newton said: “The test developed in China was validated against patients who were severely ill with a very large viral load, generating a large amount of antibodies . . . whereas we want to use the test in the context of a wider range of levels of infection including people who are quite mildly infected. So for our purposes, we need a test that performs better than some of these other tests.”

The government is still looking for commercial tests but it has accepted that rollout is months away.

Previously officials had spoken of sending millions of home test kits in days, but Professor Newton said “the idea that we might have it in days was based on the fact that we might just buy the existing test, and at the moment the judgment is that that wouldn’t be the best thing to do. It would be better to try and improve the test”.

He added: “The scientists in Oxford who have been evaluating them are working with manufacturers to say, ‘We’ve tested your test, and it doesn’t seem to perform quite well enough, but we think we can work with you to improve it.’ So it is a little bit uncertain but there are commercial partners able to work with us. I’m optimistic.”

Dame Deirdre, who chaired the official review into the swine flu, said: “I am finding it difficult to understand why both the antigen testing and the antibody testing is taking so long to get off the ground.”

In 2010 Dame Deirdre’s report said that ministers and officials had “unrealistic expectations of modelling, which could not be reliable in the early phases when there was insufficient data. Once better data was available, modelling became extremely accurate.”

She said: “I think that if there is anything perhaps where the response could have been better this time it is on the whole question of testing.”

The government also risks losing an opportunity to buy 400,000 tests a week from South Korean manufacturers, because of officials’ failure to respond to the offer, it has been claimed. Ten days ago a British businessman approached health officials after a Korean investor who has connections with LG helped to persuade five manufacturers to sell their diagnostic tests to the UK. Steve Whatley, who runs a financial technology business, said: “We just need a letter saying, ‘Subject to the tests being proven, then the UK will take x amounts of kits per week for x long.’ ”

At-risk doctors kept waiting
Less than a third of doctors with symptoms of Covid-19 are able to get tested for the disease, according to a survey by the Royal College of Physicians (RCP) (Kat Lay writes).

It also found that one in five did not have access to the personal protective equipment they need to safely treat coronavirus patients.

Andrew Goddard, the RCP president, said the findings of the survey of 2,513 respondents, were “a stark indication of the incredibly difficult situation facing our members working in the NHS”.

Matt Hancock told Sky News yesterday that 8 per cent of NHS frontline staff were self-isolating and off work.

However, the RCP’s survey suggested the figure could be as high as 14 per cent.

Many of those off work are thought to be in isolation because of a member of their household with symptoms.

The poll found almost nine out of ten doctors could not access Covid-19 testing for someone in those circumstances.

Professor Goddard added: “The government’s current strategy to deliver testing that would support NHS staff to return to the workforce as quickly as possible clearly isn’t working.”

He called for the government to publish its plan, timeline, and the challenges that it expected.
Click to expand...
 
betrayal

betrayal

Banned
hariseldon said:
www.thetimes.co.uk

Britain has millions of coronavirus antibody tests, but they don’t work

None of the antibody tests ordered by the government is good enough to use, the new testing chief has admitted.John Newton said that tests ordered from China were able to identify immunity accurately only in people who had been severely ill and that Britain was no longer hoping to buy millions of ki
www.thetimes.co.uk www.thetimes.co.uk

China fucking everyone again.
Click to expand...

But this may not be a fault of the tests, because even using more sensitive methods in the lab we can see the antibody levels are quite low.
Click to expand...

It is not clear what the threshold is for UK approval - one Chinese manufacturer believed to have been turned down by the Government claims its test is up to 98.6 per cent accurate.
Click to expand...

Source: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8190949/None-UKs-coronavirus-antibody-tests-good-use.html

Same subject. Different narratives.
But only one of them leaves out half the information.

It's not the Daily Mail.
 
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nush

nush

Member
hariseldon said:
China fucking everyone again.
Click to expand...

Order tests kits from China to fight against infection spread around the world by china.

1Ml5.gif
 
T

Teslerum

Member
autoduelist said:
I think we are seeing a lot of people with preexisting conditions die quickly, meaning we are frontloading many deaths that would normally be spread over a year or two [cancer, etc] into a couple month time frame. This is causing a huge spike in deaths, but most are simply 'quickened'. We also have just enough 'healthy' victims to put the fear in us, but not as many as our worst fears might think. I put healthy in single quotes because we hear '30 year old'and think young and healthy, but we have no idea if they actually had some undiagnosed issue like cancer in at least some cases, and i doubt they have time for full autopsies at this point.
Click to expand...

I have a problem with your reasoning here. Essentially, why are you going straight to cancer?

People are living long lives with for example Diabetes or more relevant a variety of lung or immune system related deficiensies. Yet, they are just as vulnearable as any cancer patient. Those people certainly weren't going to die in the next 1-2 years.
 
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betrayal

betrayal

Banned
Austria is planning the first reductions of the restrictions. Also Germany starts to develop a plan for a gradual lifting of the lockdown.

Because of the corona crisis, Austria has some of the strictest restrictions in Europe. Now the country is planning to relax the measures very slowly and cautiously.

Austrian Chancellor Sebastian Kurz (33, ÖVP) announced in a press conference that he was trying to "carefully formulate a plan on how to proceed after Easter". The first relaxation: from 14 April, small shops and DIY stores will be allowed to open, as well as state parks with entrance restrictions.

But before any relaxation can take place, the "exit restrictions will be extended until the end of April," Kurz said. The obligation to cover your mouth and nose will be extended to public transport.

Kurz introduced the timetable for relaxation with an appeal: "Easter week will be a decisive week for us. Decisive for whether the resurrection after Easter, as we all so desire, can be as possible." The prerequisite is that citizens absolutely adhere to the current measures.

Shops: From 14 April onwards, small specialist retailers (less than 400 square metres of shop space) and DIY stores will be allowed to open. The rule is: only one customer per 20 square metres and regular disinfection of the sales area must be guaranteed.

From 1 May onwards, all shops, shopping centres and hairdressers will be allowed to open.

Schools: The Matura, the Austrian high school graduation, is to take place. For this, high school graduates will be allowed back to school at the beginning of May. For the rest, students will study at home until at least mid-May. But for parents, too, the following applies: "Care in the schools is still guaranteed and can be used - by everyone who needs it," Kurz said. A new decision is to be made at the end of April. The semester at the universities must be completed digitally, he said.

Restaurants, hotels and bars: Pleasure must still wait in Austria. There is no concrete starting date here yet. At the earliest, there should be openings in mid-May, and the decision on this should be made at the end of April. If there is a date then, the staff will wear masks, only open during the day and not occupy all tables, reports the news portal Oe24.

Events: There will be no events with many people until the end of June. After that a new decision is to be made.

Beauty: For massage, cosmetics and manicure it will probably take the longest time until things return to normal, because there it inevitably comes to physical contact. This area is to be kept quiet for the time being.

Gyms, sports facilities and swimming pools: No opening planned so far. The situation is to be reassessed at the end of April.

Cinemas, theatres and cultural facilities: Again, everything will remain closed. The situation is to be reassessed at the end of April.

Oe24.at had already reported on loosening up before the press conference. A prerequisite for the timetable is that less than 100 people a day are newly infected in Austria. And: Masks and distance to other people would also be necessary for the next months.

As the news portal further reports, the home office obligation in Austria is to be gradually reduced from May onwards. Here, too, the same applies: Masks and distance from other people are mandatory.

Oe24 also reports that there are still to be clear restrictions when travelling. According to this, summer holidays in the distance will probably not be possible, neither by plane nor by car or train should one be allowed to travel to other countries. But still: Holidays for Austrians in their own country should be made possible.

Chancellor Kurz said at the press conference that "freedom of travel - as we know it - does not currently exist. As long as the coronavirus keeps the world busy, it will remain so."
Click to expand...

Source: https://www.bild.de/politik/inland/...en-ab-dem-14-april-oeffnen-69876214.bild.html


According to the plan, the retail trade, restaurants and, in certain regions, schools are to be reopened first. Large events and private celebrations would have to remain prohibited for the time being, however.

The restrictions are to remain in effect until April 19.

As soon as sufficient masks are available, a compulsory wearing of masks in buses and trains, in factories and buildings should be introduced, the report continues. Certain branches of the economy could initially resume operations as "islands" if they do not provide for too much customer contact.

As a prerequisite, the paper mentions that the infection rate should remain below one. This means that an infected person infects less than one other person. Currently the rate is one.
Click to expand...

www.bild.de

Coronavirus – Merkel über Zeit nach Krise: Europa braucht eine Wiederbelebung

Die Bundesregierung treibt die Planungen für die Lockerung der Einschränkungen wegen der Corona-Pandemie voran.
www.bild.de www.bild.de


I think it is very good that the infection rate must be below 1 as a prerequisite.That means that herd immunity is obviously not the goal and that it is considered realistic to keep the growth rate below 1 with more relaxed measures, which I believe is realistic.
 
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Ornlu

Ornlu

Banned
autoduelist said:
So... way worse than the flu, but about the best case scenario for a world wide pandemic if we had to have one - highly contagious, low mortality rate with the illusion of high mortality rate. Opinion subject to change, it already did once to get me to this point.
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I applaud you for the bolded statement. There's a ton of people whose opinions have changed or have been forced to change; but they'll be damned if they are ever forced to admit that! :messenger_grinning_sweat:

Teslerum said:
I have a problem with your reasoning here. Essentially, why are you going straight to cancer?

People are living long lives with for example Diabetes or more relevant a variety of lung or immune system related deficiensies. Yet, they are just as vulnearable as any cancer patient. Those people certainly weren't going to die in the next 1-2 years.
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I largely agree with the poster you are quoting; it doesn't seem outrageous to say that younger people dying (as outliers) would point toward them having underlying conditions (maybe not even known to them) which cause their death when their bodies are stressed terribly by this respiratory virus.

It could be compared to the athlete who appears to be at peak athletic performance, who suddenly has a heart attack and dies in the middle of competition at age 17. That happens, and usually is later found to be caused by a heart defect. So in that case, the underlying cause of death is a heart defect, but the stressor which caused the problem to become apparent is the athletic competition.
 
holygeesus

holygeesus

Banned
So on the one hand I have a guy who has watched a few videos and tells me everything is going to be fine, yet on the other hand, frontline NHS workers telling me it is worse than being reported. Who to believe?
 
mekes

mekes

Member
holygeesus said:
So on the one hand I have a guy who has watched a few videos and tells me everything is going to be fine, yet on the other hand, frontline NHS workers telling me it is worse than being reported. Who to believe?
Click to expand...

I struggle to see how it will be all fine, but of course there are scenarios where that could be the case. But that will take extreme precaution from the public at large in order to come to fruition. And strong choices made by government to put restrictions on travelling. It would take a lot to achieve and I worry that the government and public by large wont work towards that.

On the other hand, I was shown screenshots from an icu nurses group chat. In north London it seems all of the worst case scenarios being spouted are true. Not enough PPE, not enough beds, nurses drafted in without the correct training being tasked with caring for the sick and dying. Lots of venting as you could imagine, and they are allowed that.

Personally, I’m of the opinion that if you get your own house cleaned up, you don’t let people in from the outside to mess it up again. That would be my biggest concern with this situation. We should protect our own as best we can.
 
Cunth

Cunth

Fingerlickin' Good!
I went to the doctor to get a flu shot today. I was creeped the fuck out going there. Nurse was in like full face mask protection with goggles and everything
 
Lanrutcon

Lanrutcon

Member
DV27 said:
I was chatting to a friend from South Africa yesterday. things are soooo fucked there.

If it wasn't bad enough that cigarettes and alcohol sales have been banned, they've been deploying the Army to go into townships. There have been three people shot dead by them for not adhering to the lockdown.
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Suspected deaths. Nothing conclusive so far. Townships are basically lawless informal settlements where basic utilities are shared and the population density is nuts. 3 people getting shot by police is more noteworthy for the fact that the police went into the township, rather than the fact that violent deaths occurred in a township. There are almost no statistics coming out of the townships in terms of the virus. Testing is almost non-existent, deaths aren't reported and as many residents believe in traditional healing (read: bullshit) as modern medicine. Those places are powder kegs. The army is being deployed because the country has a history of violent protest and rioting. These are people that burn downs schools when they don't agree on school fees. The government can't afford to be reactive.

What's so bad about alcohol being temporarily banned anyway? Anyone who can't get through a month without drinking needs to ask themselves some hard questions. This country's alcohol related crime statistics (domestic violence, road deaths, homicides, rape) would make your eyes bleed.
 
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T

Teslerum

Member
Ornlu said:
I largely agree with the poster you are quoting; it doesn't seem outrageous to say that younger people dying (as outliers) would point toward them having underlying conditions (maybe not even known to them) which cause their death when their bodies are stressed terribly by this respiratory virus.
Click to expand...
Ok? Did I say anything different?

My issue was with him saying that a lot of those people would have died anyway in the next 2 years which I disagree with as there are tons of other pre-existing conditions like Diabetis that are deadly in combination with Covid19 that you can somewhat easily live with otherwise.

Im not sure what you think I wrote.
 
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VertigoOA

VertigoOA

Banned
Ya know... a bit off topic...

Been chasing my ex for like 8 months and begging for forgiveness and another chance...

Of course she wanted end of world sex right as quarantine rules were laid out so that’s been happening... Now she calls every day again etc... and are gonna flee to my parent’s summer home and just isolate in a cabin like filthy rich white people ... (not really but the hamptons will be a mile away).

So because I managed to get my woman back thanks to a pandemic ... I expect I’m gonna die. Seems too bittersweet.
 
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