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Mask Efficacy |OT| Wuhan!! Got You All In Check
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Stryda
Banned
Strange how this thread is full of people mocking countries who have done pretty well beating the pandemic while lionising countries that have been pretty pathetic.
The US has the highest deaths and is in a mess because of so much disinformation and misplaced rebellion in the pursuit of “freedom”.
The lack of decent healthcare is another minus. You would think this would be a good opportunity to fix up the nation instead of doubling down on the stupid
Hopefully better things are in store in November!
The US has the highest deaths and is in a mess because of so much disinformation and misplaced rebellion in the pursuit of “freedom”.
The lack of decent healthcare is another minus. You would think this would be a good opportunity to fix up the nation instead of doubling down on the stupid
Hopefully better things are in store in November!
Well said , but prepare to be taken down now by lefties or righties or someone with political motives ... because you know a virus is political..Strange how this thread is full of people mocking countries who have done pretty well beating the pandemic while lionising countries that have been pretty pathetic.
The US has the highest deaths and is in a mess because of so much disinformation and misplaced rebellion in the pursuit of “freedom”.
The lack of decent healthcare is another minus. You would think this would be a good opportunity to fix up the nation instead of doubling down on the stupid
Hopefully better things are in store in November!
November is Start of the flu season , flu and Covid don’t mix that well , we saw that in december, January, February in China and also over here in The Netherlands.
But we can always hope.
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DeepBreath87
Banned
The economy is doing quite well actually. The only states really struggling are the ones making what I guess you could call "tough decisions". California and New York for example.
Birgitte2004-2
Banned
Strange how this thread is full of people mocking countries who have done pretty well beating the pandemic while lionising countries that have been pretty pathetic.
The US has the highest deaths and is in a mess because of so much disinformation and misplaced rebellion in the pursuit of “freedom”.
The lack of decent healthcare is another minus. You would think this would be a good opportunity to fix up the nation instead of doubling down on the stupid
Hopefully better things are in store in November!
I don't know who you feel is "lionising" the US. Nobody is happy with the US response. Half the country thinks it's way too lenient, the other half way too harsh, but nobody thinks they did a good job.
The rest of your response makes it ultra-clear you are waist deep in the politicization you are complaining about.
Joe T.
Member
It's not the US, it's the media, domestic and international both. I keep a watchful eye on it and it's been inexcusably poor from all corners of the world, that undoubtedly includes countries that you may believe handled this pandemic well. When the Democrats rushed to politicize the government's response the press/media had the responsibility to hold them accountable, to reign them in. While the president was working hand in hand with every governor to give them everything he could the media was selling the public horror stories about how terrible he was handling it. Confirmation bias tends to lead people to believe whichever side they happen to prefer regardless of the facts.
The national (and international) conversation is shaped by the media. If tonight they say you met with a three-legged prostitute then that's the story everyone will be talking about tomorrow regardless of whether or not there's any truth to the story. Now think about how they spent years convincing the world the president of the US conspired with Russia to win his 2016 election. When the investigation exposed how wrong they were (and how right Trump was) very few people changed their views. That, to me, was the clearest sign during my 40+ year life that humanity was in trouble.
Remember all the fake/staged stories the media trotted out during this pandemic? The ventilator hysteria, the mask flip flops with laughable reasoning to explain them, the Italian hospital at the height of their crisis used to represent both New York and Pennnsylvania, the crying nurse pulling on heart strings, the married couple that ingested chloroquine which turned out to be fish tank cleaner, the president suggesting you drink bleach, etc. Chances are you might still believe some of them because they extend to case number reporting and isolated stories about younger victims.
Healthy skepticism was always a requirement when consuming the news, even several decades ago. The problem is that what passed for healthy skepticism back then and what passes for it today are entirely different. Politics and the media coverage about those topics has become ridiculously bad in recent years, if your skepticism isn't higher than it's ever been when consuming those stories something's wrong. When the masses come to believe "everything is political" and don't hold the media that openly misleads/lies to them accountable every single day we're in dangerous territory.
Edit: spelling.
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Stryda
Banned
California and New York more or less carry the rest of the US economically, they are also more heavily populated,
it’s usually the more rundown republican states with sparsely populated areas that tend to spread the ignorance. Unfortunately with the internet And dodgy voting boundaries and the electoral college, they have louder voices than they deserve!
lock2k
Banned
Deserve? Oh boy...
The other side of that is when you don't trust the media, you turn to other news sources such as Twitter and Facebook, where you are fed content by algorithms that supports your existing preconceptions. Human beings evolved to be good at challenging other's beliefs (winning arguments), not validating their own. So we need others to check our blindspots. But when everyone you interact with shares the same blindspot, that doesn't happen. And when a sense of tribal community forms around a set of beliefs, they become almost impossible to change.
Already we see that in this thread with people dividing into "pro" and "anti" lockdown groups. Each group scours the internet to find headlines to support what they believe, and to "attack" the other group. It's pretty ridiculous that with almost nothing known about the virus, almost everyone seems to have already made up their mind. Masks either do nothing or are our saviour. Lockdown is either the best strategy we have or achieves nothing. All subtlety and nuance is lost and we are left exchanging articles like ammunition.
diffusionx
Gold Member
New York is fucked right now because the governor and mayor of the biggest city have consciously chosen to tank the economy and keep it tanked, for whatever reason. This economic crash is entirely government-made. Think about it the next time you support a politician who is seeking expanded power, taxes, etc. for themselves.
Ah yes, rundown republican areas spread ignorance while the New York Times, which spent 3 years talking about an obviously bullshit story about Russia, is full of floating heads merely trying to enlighten the plebs.
Ah yes, rundown republican areas spread ignorance while the New York Times, which spent 3 years talking about an obviously bullshit story about Russia, is full of floating heads merely trying to enlighten the plebs.
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DeepBreath87
Banned
Wait. Are you the same person from 2 posts ago talking about how the political divides in the US are so bad? Do you own a mirror? Because your lack of self awareness is awe inspiring.
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Stryda
Banned
Mo
You sound Like one of those Qanon types. Why would they want to intentionally yank the economy? Trump is doing that pretty well by himself After inheriting a healthy economy from Obama.
Also, the low taxes the US loves so much is why your health and social care is so poor. Whatever taxes that are collected are spent on the military to oppress people abroad and on the Police to oppress people domestically.
Pretty sad. The US had a chance for a canadian/European style government and lifestyle with Bernie but the system had to beat down Bernie
You sound Like one of those Qanon types. Why would they want to intentionally yank the economy? Trump is doing that pretty well by himself After inheriting a healthy economy from Obama.
Also, the low taxes the US loves so much is why your health and social care is so poor. Whatever taxes that are collected are spent on the military to oppress people abroad and on the Police to oppress people domestically.
Pretty sad. The US had a chance for a canadian/European style government and lifestyle with Bernie but the system had to beat down Bernie
Ornlu
Banned
Fuck off, troll.
Birgitte2004-2
Banned
Seems pretty clear to me he's just here trying to get enough posts to move to politics where he can join those who complain endlessly about how alt-right neogaf is. He's already got the "arrogantly state leftist points as if they are the only facts that matter, while deflecting away any rebuttals" down pat.
Stryda
Banned
some of you are hostile to my pretty tame fact based posting yet have no issue with the amount of fake news and worrying views propagating the fake narrative that the deep state is hyping up this pandemic to tank the economy? That doesn’t sound crazy to some of you?
180k are dead and things aren’t slowing down. Demand more from your government.
180k are dead and things aren’t slowing down. Demand more from your government.
Barnabot
Member
Stryda
Banned
That was badly phrased.
i should have said smaller states have a disproportionately larger voice compared to population.
A good example is Kentucky taking more in welfare than putting in economically compared to New York but Mitch McConnell can repeatedly screw over New York with his warped politics.
i should have said smaller states have a disproportionately larger voice compared to population.
A good example is Kentucky taking more in welfare than putting in economically compared to New York but Mitch McConnell can repeatedly screw over New York with his warped politics.
cryptoadam
Banned
How can you restart the economy if you maintain shut downs?
I think I will blame the people who want to stifle the economy and keep it shut down over the people who want to open things up.
I think I will blame the people who want to stifle the economy and keep it shut down over the people who want to open things up.
Joe T.
Member
You're presenting an either or situation of extremes where a person that doesn't trust the mainstream news at all ignores it completely and instead gets it exclusively from fringe sources. Likewise, you're making it seem like everyone that sides for/against mitigation measures only does so by believing it's the perfect approach. People like me don't operate in that paradigm, I'm not getting the impression most in this thread do either. A vocal few appear to, though.
I get my news wherever I can get it, whether it's a blatantly partisan New York Times hit piece or a complete stranger's live video feed posted on Twitter (my follows might scare you, they range the gamut). I piece together the facts from all sources and form my opinion the way everyone should. One of our problems is that mainstream media has worked hard over the decades to convince us certain sources they don't approve of should be mocked/dismissed, something that's easy to see in the US because of how much of it was done in popular entertainment.
I'm not part of any particular group because of a blind belief or loyalty. I believe what I believe because I've been watching this thread from the start and became obsessed with digging up info wherever I could find it, I've done an obscene amount of that. There is far more evidence - raw data and studies both - against widespread, public mask wearing being a reliable form of mitigation than there is in its favor, for example. I live in a big city and saw first hand our flawed response, how scared and ignorant the general public still remains today in spite of all we've learned. If you're following the science you know that governments all around the world and the press/media aren't doing what they claim to be doing. They're rarely held accountable either, that should bother everyone.
Speaking of accountability, why did Bill Gates not get pressed harder (or at all) about some of his seemingly callous behavior/views in interviews? Why were public health officials/doctors not pressed harder about their contradictions since Jan/Feb? Why are we okay with big tech suppressing/silencing/censoring dissenting opinions instead of engaging with them? There are too many important, unresolved questions. I've been keeping tabs on the press/media for decades, the reason behind the lack of questioning and more balanced/responsible coverage is an unfortunate side effect of today's market and the incredible amount of influence a single man wields over global health.
The Gates Foundation has thrown billions at the UN, WHO and World Bank, hundreds of millions of dollars at the CDC, FDA, NIH/NIAID. Tony Fauci and his wife, who happens to be Chief of Bioethics - an extremely important department as new, untested vaccine development is now at "warp speed" - are a little too close to him for my taste. It strikes me as a glaring conflict of interest that can be abused, a red flag. Would it be so hard to get some reporters to question her/them about it and lay that matter to rest? Apparently.
We rely on the press/media to inform us, but ethical standards were tossed out the window a long time ago and that applies to the medical field as well, unfortunately. So what do we do now, just listen to what they say and pray they don't get it wrong like they have so much else over just the last few years? What do we have to lose aside from our health and freedom, no big deal, right?
The stakes are very high. This pandemic and our response to it deserves a far, far more critical eye than it's receiving.
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Stryda
Banned
There won’t be an economy without people and this virus isn’t going away quickly in the US. China and Asia had it beat quickly. Europe is on the way out now. US is still in phase one.
you can “open up“ but who’s going to listen?
it doesn’t help that the US didn’t really lock down for more than 2 weeks. Right now it’s doing somekind of halfassed lockdown combined with social unrest.
The country is in a mess and that’s before Trump getting elected out, that’s when shit will hit the fan with the neo nazi groups, alt right, incels, lone gunmen and millitias kicking off and running wild.
diffusionx
Gold Member
Andrew "Live in a nursing home? Time for the catacomb" Cuomo keeps NYC's economy in a state of ruin despite it meeting his "objective" and "scientific" reopening plan and doing so every single day for months now. Now that people can't afford to pay their rent or put food on the table, his solution? Open up some government-sponsored bread lines. What a joke. One must really ask why the hell he chooses to inflict such misery on his constituents.
NYC's daily case count is somewhere around 200 btw. A city of 8.5 million people.
NYC's daily case count is somewhere around 200 btw. A city of 8.5 million people.
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BigBooper
Member
She's got a loaf of bread right there in her lap.
Strange how this thread is full of people mocking countries who have done pretty well beating the pandemic while lionising countries that have been pretty pathetic.
The US has the highest deaths and is in a mess because of so much disinformation and misplaced rebellion in the pursuit of “freedom”.
The lack of decent healthcare is another minus. You would think this would be a good opportunity to fix up the nation instead of doubling down on the stupid
Hopefully better things are in store in November!
Fucksakes.
Did some of you lads just not pay attention in Maths class during school or what?
The USA is the 3rd most populated planet in the world behind China and India. Is it any surprise they are near the top in terms of raw numbers of cases and deaths. India is 3rd btw and if you trust China's numbers then best of luck with that.
I'd hazard a guess that Americas testing etc is better than those 2 also.
Deaths per million population the US is 10th worldwide. Behind countries like Belgium, UK, Italy, Spain and on par with places like Sweden.
How many times has this basic shit been explained since March.
Still we have smug newbies jumping onto the thread implying that others are doubling down on stupid while demonstrating a lack of knowledge that should fucking shame even an average high school student.
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"There won’t be an economy without people..."
Out of curiosity, what % of people who get infected do you think this thing actually kills?
The US with its 6.5 million cases has approx 200k deaths.
Without even getting deeper into the data and looking at demographics of the people who died (age, health conditions etc) I make that 3% fatality rate. Assuming the number of cases is ALL of the cases.
What kind of death toll are you speculating here where the number of deaths is so high that "there won't be an economy".
Sorry if you're actually a bit dim but you aren't really talking sense here.
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Stryda
Banned
Nice spin.
Hopefully the US stays on most country’s quarantine lists to protect the rest of us.
Countries like China, South Korea and Japan have done so much better because their governments work for the people and the people listen and take care of each other. The US “every man for himself” approach is the wrong answer.
It’s amazing to think that Canada is next door and their attitude to their citizens is night and day.
Hopefully the US stays on most country’s quarantine lists to protect the rest of us.
Countries like China, South Korea and Japan have done so much better because their governments work for the people and the people listen and take care of each other. The US “every man for himself” approach is the wrong answer.
It’s amazing to think that Canada is next door and their attitude to their citizens is night and day.
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The truth is that very few countries have done a good job with this.
Look at the 30 worst overall in terms of deaths per million. It's some of the best and wealthiest right up there.
The problem we are seeing is simpletons who think that the total number of cases and deaths is reflective of anything. As if densely populated cities etc are not an obvious factor.
Nobody with a large population and huge cities has come out of this able to say they did an excellent job. It's probably impossible to avoid lots of infections and deaths in dense population centres.
Its good for people who want to play the blame game, I suppose.
cryptoadam
Banned
So everyone in portland should drop dead soon.
And this has been going on for days if not weeks.
Canada. 28th worst in the world. 131k cases and around 10k deaths. A worse deaths per cases survival rate than the USA actually (I think 3% fatality rate in the US vs 7% in Canada, if you can crunch the numbers it's a chance to prove me wrong). 242 deaths per 1M population. Canada has, what, a tenth of the population of the US? Probably fewer and smaller cities too?
Nice avoidance.
Don't worry. You can wait a few pages and come back with your "I didn't pay attention in school" shite and hope that nobody pulls you up on it.
You actually have the gall to imply that others are dumb while you are at it.
One small thermobaric enema would cleanse that park... in Minecraft. Yeesh!
12Goblins
Lil’ Gobbie
bigsnack
Member
This new round of discussion is not mentioning the difference in the US’s consumption of sugar (inflammation), as well as the higher prevalence of inflammation in those with obesity, etc. my hypothesis is that there is greater cross immunity in Asia, compounded with the lower obesity and internal inflammation. C19 is a vascular disease, not a respiratory one.
cryptoadam
Banned
Europe running into some trouble.
cryptoadam
Banned
And in Sweden
And 5 day quarantine
And 5 day quarantine
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diffusionx
Gold Member
I was reading an article on CNN to get the official POV on the rise in cases in Europe and there's something that caught my eye...
That's a strange thing to put in an article for NPC digestion, since we were told that lockdowns are the only solution to "beat" the virus and Sweden was dumb shits and wrong. Worth noting I have been saying this very thing in this thread for months, maybe people will believe it when this clown says it now.
That's a strange thing to put in an article for NPC digestion, since we were told that lockdowns are the only solution to "beat" the virus and Sweden was dumb shits and wrong. Worth noting I have been saying this very thing in this thread for months, maybe people will believe it when this clown says it now.
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pel1300
Member
This is the dumbest thing I've read on this forum. You can't be serious.
How can you restart when your work force gets sick? Or are only robots doing the work and making money? There is a virus that is crippling people ..
But maybe you guys can reason with the virus ?
How hard is it to understand ?
1 you need to keep the virus in check.
2 you create room to open up
3 you can start your work force in steps
4 you need to keep measures to find balance in health and economy
5 you need to keep it this way until you can ease steps
6 and when it gets worse you tighten
7 rinse and repeat
8 welcome to the reality of now,
ever heard of world changing events ? Look them up in history, pandemics are one of them.
Not that hard.
And in the mean time try to life and do things that you can do. Instead of bitching what you can’t. Whole world is in the same spot.
And on top of this curve you are going into the flu season .. and catching both could be a real trouble , no body wants this scenario yet the USA is right heading into this scenario.
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Is it ? Like us The Netherlands we had a United plan to tackle the virus early on obeying the rules , and it seemed to work , we can do things we did before the virus entered the world but not with crowds, sometimes you just need to accept the situation instead of going against.
Because you need to do it together.
And looking at USA it looks to divided and numbers are reflecting this .
Instead of early flattening of the curve you guys have a line that keeps adding to much dead’s.
Look at history and states and cities that took action in time or too late with the Spanish flu. Same happend.
To bad that in those 100 years lessons learn got lost or people are not willing .
Pretty sad to be honest to see this happen and depressing.
Example of not obeying the rules , that’s what happens..
Now I hope for France that it are mostly infected that can battle it off without hospitalization.
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It’s very simple actually if you let this spread without measures you see it in full effect.
But you won’t see this scenario because gladly there are much smarter people making decisions.
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Well if its that simple then show us your working then.
What % of infections and deaths would we be looking at without measures.
Or are you just talking shit, as usual?
Do you honestly just not understand the relative size of the US?
I do and it’s a sad state of affaires in this day and age , with all the knowledge we accumulated over the past 100 years .
Don’t you understand this ?
So you think the USA a highly technologically and scientific country is showing and using all this knowledge in effect?
I think that deads could be far less if they were on the ball from the beginning . And as I traveled a lot in the USA it’s heart wrecking to see such a divided approach.
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Can you quantify that with figures etc?
I mean, you talk a good game but nothing is backed up or contextualised with data.
You want to judge a country as doing badly but you just talk about the raw numbers of deaths and cases when obviously larger countries ought to have more cases.
Surely even looking at the relationship between cases and deaths (so the survival rate once infected) for different countries would tell a different story.
You're just fixating on the raw numbers and because you have a clear bias against the US you are using that to push a narrative.
You back nothing up with data and refuse to even acknowledge all the different ways the data could be interpreted.
That's all before we even get to your smug attitude.
I asked you specifically a few pages back to show examples of posters here who explicitly said "the virus isn't real" because that's a claim you were making. You just outright ignored it though.
You talk a lot of shit but you don't back any of it up.
Which posters here have clearly stated "there is no virus"?
Sounds like bullshit to me.
MisterFalcon
Member
Cases are rising fast but deaths are not. The rise in cases can easily be explained by doing far more testing and also testing more people with no symptoms through contact tracing who would otherwise never be detected.
Why deaths remain so low is the big question. Could be a lot of things:
-A weaker strain (which is not seen but could be in some attribute not checked)
-Long days with lots of light killing the virus in the air, meaning the same interaction in February/March now produces a less heavy infection
-Measures to keep vulnerable people away from the rest are working, either through government rules or just people being careful out of common sense
-Herd immunity in the ones interacting with vulnerable people (this seems to me the most likely scenario coupled with more careful family visits)
-A spread far wider then known among those vulnerable people and most of the ones for whom the virus is deadly regardless of treatment are already dead
-Better treatment but the number of people being admitted to hospital is also way lower
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Chittagong
Gold Member
Virus shifts to young as lockdown fears ease — The Times and The Sunday Times
Most confirmed coronavirus cases are now in younger people in an “extraordinary” shift that has raised hopes that deaths can be kept low without lockdowns. Two thirds of confirmed infections are in the under-40s while numbers in older people have fallen sharply, a Times analysis of Public Health...
apple.news
Refreshing voice of reason in UK
IbelieveInGenerations
Banned
What if... The numbers of deaths caused by flu, pneumonia and different infections that You naturally expect to happen in a year have stayed similar to past years with a minimal addition of deaths actually caused by covid?
Up till this, people simply never gave much attention to the yearly numbers of hospital deaths caused by pneumonia, infections etc, we were never used to track those numbers.
To sum up my point here, Im Just suggesting that hospital Death numbers MIGHT not be so drastically different compared to past late years and the addition of deaths by covid or with covid could not represent any significant additional percentage. The different now is that cases are being reported 24/7 on a tv next to You.
Up till this, people simply never gave much attention to the yearly numbers of hospital deaths caused by pneumonia, infections etc, we were never used to track those numbers.
To sum up my point here, Im Just suggesting that hospital Death numbers MIGHT not be so drastically different compared to past late years and the addition of deaths by covid or with covid could not represent any significant additional percentage. The different now is that cases are being reported 24/7 on a tv next to You.
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