-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Mass Effect 20 min E3 demonstration (IGN)
- Thread starter dejan
- Start date
Woo-Fu
Banned
Speevy said:
If you're going to make a crack like that, at least do your research and say BGII.
I don't consider it the best, but it is better than BG and both of them are significantly better RPGs than KotoR.
KotoR was a good game, it wasn't a good RPG. I don't see any reason to lower RPG standards just because of the platform. The aspects of BG/BGII that make them better RPGs could've just as easily been implemented on the xbox. They made action RPG lites because that is what they believed would be more appealing to the console audience.
The were right. Doesn't make me happy about their change in direction, though.
I don't really care anyways at this point, I'm just trying to explain the sour grapes you'll continue to see out of Bioware's PC fanbase.
UncleGuito
Banned
Having fun trolling this thread? I sure as hell hope so.Frenck said:
Spruce Moose
Member
ME looks okay, better than Jade Empire at least.
What has me most excited about ME is that it's almost done and that means Bioware can start concentrating on Dragon Age!!
What has me most excited about ME is that it's almost done and that means Bioware can start concentrating on Dragon Age!!
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Frenck said:
You're welcome to your opinion, but know that when you pepper them with such clear and mystifying crackpottery they are severely devalued.
Lostconfused
Member
Woo-Fu said:
Right then, but why do you need to complain in a ME topic? You clearly believe that bioware wont make a quality rpg on a console, so just move on. Also as i said before, bioware will never make anything as good as Baldurs Gate again.
On a side note, most people would disagree with you and say that kotor was a good rpg.
Tartarus said:
It's also one of my concerns. I'm not too worried, since it will still be massively epic.
The following is just speculation, you know how they say they keep adding new planets, that they don't know how many are in the game exactly? It makes the game so huge, and I don't want to derail this thread into another territory we're very familiar with here at GAF, but I get the sense that there's no way we won't get the same kind of repetition in environments, especially given that they're working with only one DVD.
I won't mind too much, but I just want people expecting a huge plethora of new worlds, each one looking different than the last, not to be disappointed. It sounds like there's a shit-ton of dialogue, and that will take up a lot of space.
A lot of people's concerns with Oblivion is how the world looked the same everywhere, but that didn't bother me enough to not make it my game of the generation so far.
karasu said:
Your response shows that you don't know what you're talking about.
Jade Empire was in no shape or form the follow up to any title that came before it, not to BG and certainly not to KotOR.
It was never meant to be the next KotOR but still the press ripped it apart for not being like KotOR.
The press gave Jade Empire VERY good reviews.
Gamers ripped it apart after the fact for having a battle system that could be managed by doing the same move over and over and over again.
Basically Bioware created unnecessary depth for enemies that needed only a few button presses to kill.
Gamers ripped it apart after the fact for having a battle system that could be managed by doing the same move over and over and over again.
Basically Bioware created unnecessary depth for enemies that needed only a few button presses to kill.
Woo-Fu
Banned
Lostconfused said:
I didn't bring it up, I tried to explain it after it was brought up. Feel free to read the entire thread instead of just the comment at the end. Context is important, you know?
As far as the people who disagree with me, almost every one of them is a console person, a console person who has never played a good PC RPG, much seen the full extent of what traditional PC RPGs bring to the table. They're entitled to their opinion, but in my book they're a textbook case of "ignorance is bliss".
The only concerns I've stated about Mass Effect resolve around the combat that I've seen in the demo's, btw. You might want to try to be less defensive when reading and responding to my posts.
Speevy said:
I don't know what press you've been reading, but my magazine gave it a 7.2 and it's all it deserved. It was far from a bad game, but it certainly wasn't a VERY good one.
Anyways, I just hope that the battle system will offer the tactical variety and challenge they've been promoting. Other than that, Mass Erect, indeed.
Lostconfused
Member
Woo-Fu said:
Arguments tend to move from point to counter point and end up forgetting or ignoring the original cause. Even if you say that combat is your only concern its clear that you are disappointed with bioware making games for consoles. Maybe pc rpgs just don't make that much money anymore that developers are not willing to put as much effort into them. Not that bioware isn't, but clearly they are exploring different platforms for which to develop.
Oh also about the lift biotic. Have you watched all of the demo? I dont think its outside the realm of possibility that you will be fighting more then 1 enemy at a time. Oh also at the end of that demo you can see that the lift effects some enemies for a very short duration, long enough for no more then 2 shots, which isnt enough to take out it out.
temp said:
Right and I addressed this in my post. Bioware wanted to do something different. They said all the time that it was going to be simpler, shorter and more twitch based than KotOR.
That's what everybody should've expected, it's not Biowares fault.
It wasn't a follow up to KotOR. Not even in the sense that it was Biowares next game after KotOR. It was a new beginning for Bioware, their first new IP in the RPG genre where all previous RPG's were based on licensed IPs.
They wanted to prove that they could do something unexpected like a pure action RPG that deserves the name. The follow ups to KotOR and Biowares entire PC RPG history were KotOR 2 and Neverwinter Nights 2.
Mass Effect isn't the follow up to Jade Empire either, follow up implies that they aim for it have the same effect on the industry as Jade Empire. A follow up is usually a spiritual successor or a game that is similar in key parts to another game.
Zabojnik said:
http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages4/918890.asp
5 reviews below 80% out of the whole lot.
I'd say those are really good reviews.
Woo-Fu
Banned
Lostconfused said:
So what if I'm disappointed with Bioware making action RPG's for consoles? And again, I said that they made the right choice. WTF already? You don't have to defend them, I said they were probably right, get it? Sheesh.
Does that make my opinion on the combat system I've seen demo'd in ME completely worthless?
Sounds more like you just want to quickly dismiss anybody who doesn't spooge all over what you're currently spooging all over. I'm not here to blow a feather up your ass about Mass Effect, sorry.
I'm concerned about demos of a combat system where you can easily juggle your opponents, one after the other, rendering them completely helpless and of zero threat. How about talking about that for awhile? Maybe there'll be something interesting that comes out of it.
Speevy said:
Not as good as they should've been. In my opinion it was the best RPG the Xbox had to offer. The main problem was that everybody expected a KotOR with a different paint job, some kind of total conversion.
It proves how the industry is still stuck in kindergarten after all these years.
AdmiralViscen
Banned
Frenck said:
Oh.
a Master Ninja
Member
Why is nobody talking about the video? They say in it Resident Evil 4 inspired them to put NEW GAME+ into Mass Effect. That is awesome.
Lostconfused
Member
Woo-Fu said:
Was i really dismissive? Well not that i intended it, but oh well.
Well heres my point again about the lift biotic, i edited that in. I guess that happened while you were writing your reply.
Oh also about the lift biotic. Have you watched all of the demo? I dont think its outside the realm of possibility that you will be fighting more then 1 enemy at a time. Oh also at the end of that demo you can see that the lift effects some enemies for a very short duration, long enough for no more then 2 shots, which isnt enough to take out it out.
I didnt look for it, but there might be some sort of limit to how much you can use your biotic powers, kind of like force points in kotor or mp in other rpgs. If you noticed (actually it might have been in the gamespot demo) during the combat one of the characters lost quite a bit of HP in the fight with the regular enemies, possibly poor AI or not. Plus, wasnt it said in the interview that they turned the difficulty down for the demo?
Death_Born
Banned
dejan said:
Translation: We could, but I don't feel like it.
Lostconfused
Member
a Master Ninja said:
Yup, that might be also the reason for the blurb on the ME site that sais you can unlock 6 other character classes i think.
Plus the revealed details about the light/dark good/bad system and how they changed it up in the game.
Woo-Fu said:
Off course it was, as was Neverwinter Nights 2.
It was their choice not to continue these franchises and they recommended Obsidian to both Atari and Lucas Arts. That's the point I'm trying to make.
These were the true follow ups to Biowares entire back catalogue while they began something new with Jade Empire, none of their new games should be compared or seen as follow ups to their previous games even if they "followed up" directly to them.
To be disappointed in a follow up indicates that the person expected a similar game, not a game similar in quality executed as an entirely different concept.
The quality of a game, even an RPG, isn't defined by the amount of hours it takes to play through the game or the amount of sidequests, it isn't even defined by the nature of the combat system (real time or turn based) or the complexity it offers to players. A shorter, simpler and more action based game CAN be a better game than an 150 hours RPG epic that's true to P&P RPGs in every way.
A story doesn't need to be drawn out to be as long as possible, a story that takes 20 hours to tell can be better than a story that takes more than 100 hours.
That's what Bioware wanted to prove and that is what so called PC hardcore gamers still don't get. A Katamari game can be better than any big 2D RPG of the old days too.
Yes it was.Frenck said:
Yes it was. That's exactly the sense that it was the follow-up to KotOR.Frenck said:
They compared it to KotOR because it was their follow-up to KotOR.Frenck said:
The guy clearly meant that it was their "follow-up" to KotOR in that it was their next game after KotOR. All you're doing here is saying that you like to use the term "follow-up" differently, and you're not even doing that well since Jade Empire clearly did have similar aspects to KotOR.Frenck said:
BamYouHaveAids
Member
It might have been a follow up to KotOR physically, but it wasn't in his heart, and at the end isn't that what really matters? Respect the human dignity that every person is entitled to and recklessly agree with himtemp said:
krypt0nian
Banned
Maybe it's because I'm in love with the source material plays a huge part, but I had plenty of fun with Jade Empire. The combat system wasn't that deep but it didn't seem to matter as I just wanted to know what happens next in the story.
I thought it was a solid 8 overall in terms of fun.
I thought it was a solid 8 overall in terms of fun.
@ temp
He wrote that it was an disappointing follow up not that is was an disappointing game, so he obviously expected it to be similar to KotOR when it was not and was never meant to be either.
If he liked KotOR he should've looked elsewhere for a successor. He could've written that Jade Empire was a disappointing game but he wrote it was a disappointing follow up, which means that it wasn't up to KotOR's standards which it never aimed to be because it was entirely different. The only thing that both have in common is the way the story was told and the structure of the engine.
Hell, it can be as disappointing a game as people want, but he said it was the most disappointing follow up in that particular year which it clearly wasn't. People wouldn't say that The Club was the most disappointing follow up of 2008 because Bizarre's previous game was PGR 4.
I know what he meant and I disagree, that's all there is to it.
He wrote that it was an disappointing follow up not that is was an disappointing game, so he obviously expected it to be similar to KotOR when it was not and was never meant to be either.
If he liked KotOR he should've looked elsewhere for a successor. He could've written that Jade Empire was a disappointing game but he wrote it was a disappointing follow up, which means that it wasn't up to KotOR's standards which it never aimed to be because it was entirely different. The only thing that both have in common is the way the story was told and the structure of the engine.
Hell, it can be as disappointing a game as people want, but he said it was the most disappointing follow up in that particular year which it clearly wasn't. People wouldn't say that The Club was the most disappointing follow up of 2008 because Bizarre's previous game was PGR 4.
I know what he meant and I disagree, that's all there is to it.
lollerskates
Banned
cant wait
the 360 is like the sci-fi fans dream console. so many games
the 360 is like the sci-fi fans dream console. so many games
karasu
Member
Frenck said:
Alright, whatever. Now you're just playing with words. You understand full well what I mean regardless of the swirly twirly mess you're putting on my screen. I didn't expect it to be like Kotor, I expected it to be good. I believe 'developer's pedigree' is a term that's being thrown around a lot lately. It was simply the Bioware experience that came after KOTOR.
I started out loving Jade Empire until I realized that every fight I had played out in the exact same fashion. It went from being fun to being downright laborious. Then the characters turned to shit.
Jade Empire was disappointing and the worst Bioware game I've played (which, thankfully, isn't much of a criticism as it sounds) - I'm glad they seem to be fixing its problems with Mass Effect. Notably, there was no character development depth to Jade Empire. Every character ended up the same so there was no reason to replay the game in a different way more than once - one for light side and one for dark side (which are pretty simple moral choices, another thing they seem to be fixing) .. looking at the talent trees in that demonstration, this definitely seems fixed.