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Dragon Age has co op?
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Mass Effect (4) Comic-Con Panel Transcript (timeline correction, PC is human, more)
- Thread starter Nirolak
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Dragon Age has co op?
Dragon Age I think this is actually harder in conceptually than Mass Effect since the amount of racism is incredibly high.
Like having a Qunari inquisitor that people have to follow is about the same level as trying to appoint a Rachni to the council.
An Elvin one would be similar to trying to put a Krogan on there.
No, that was a reference to the second part. You can control any party member in your party, so outside of dialog you could effectively play as someone who isn't the main character for the entire game. Sorry for being unclear.
Humanity barely mattered in the original series.
Cerberus was a huge pro-human, fuck everything else group that originally didn't matter much in Mass Effect 1. In Mass Effect 2 they essentially go all in on Shepard, forgot what they did in Mass Effect 3. The Alliance military barely did anything in Mass Effect 1, besides supplying Shepard with the Normandy. In Mass Effect 2 they did dick.
Mass Effect 3 is the only game in the series where humanity and Earth mattered significantly. People love to put the ending on the "OH MY GOD ITS SO BAD" pedestal, but humanity suddenly becoming some mega important thing, in a galaxy that gets more interesting the farther you get away from our solar system, bothered me more.
And I disagree with the "we're supposed to feel like the alien" assertion. The main intention of the Mass Effect series should be space espionage and intrigue. In Mass Effect 1 you essentially become a CIA agent. In Mass Effect 2 you become an agent sponsored by a corporation. In Mass Effect 3 you become an agent for the galaxy.
I never felt alienated in the Mass Effect series.
I never really had a desire to play another race in ME. The series, at least began, where much of Sci-fi comes from and that's exploring what it means to be human, our role in the universe and how we will change or evolve in the future, if at all. So I would like to see that continue, especially because that was kind of lost in the ME2 and especially ME3 when humans, via Shepard, became this messiah like race of super special people.
Kabuki Quantum Lover
Member
If I can't be an Asari warrior, then I'm just wasting my damn time #frecklepower
Coffee Dog
Banned
Considering it's going to take place in the future of the series, it probably should be abandoned.
I saw the first Mass Effect as a game about something bigger than globalization (galaxization?). Shepard is just a conduit for the player, nothing more, nothing less. His actions are limited by bureaucracy, lack of power politically. Humans were inducted into the council before the Krogan and Quarians. Humans have it good compared to those other races. The best parts about Mass Effect are the relations of all the races. Alliances, vendettas, truces, betrayals.
Look at it this way, for the most part all human squadmates are boring as fuck. All the alien squadmates are interesting, have really detailed backgrounds that are more complex. To me playing as a human in Mass Effect is similar to the criticism that the majority of player characters are typical white dudes.
Shepard definitely is just the conduit but there was an undercurrent the entire series of what role Humanity would play on this galactic stage. How your Shepard acted was a part of this, and especially some of the choices you make affected this, like the end of ME1 and the what you could do with the Council. Cerberus then became another part of this and whether humanity would dominate the galaxy or if we would join them and be equals. So much of it was centered around whether Humanity would seek to dominate or cooperate with the rest of the galaxy. Were we really special and destined to rule the galaxy or were we just one of many sentient races.
As well throughout the series, but especially in ME1, the exploration and a lot of the sidequest and little tidbits you picked up here and there were all about the human pioneers, their plight and showing us how humanity was just entering a new age in human history and what it mean to be human. Ashley and Kaiden were both a part of that, I liked them but I know others didn't so much. Ashley was an example of the new standard of a military Brat and colonist child where the problems were often the same, but the environment was so much different. Meanwhile Kaiden was a very direct example of the deeper idea of what it means to be human and our desire to elevate ourselves beyond our physical limits and all the good and bad that comes with it.
Pretty much all of the ME series was framed from the perspective of humans and how we perceived these completely foreign cultures compared to our own. Sometimes it was done to push our own boundaries while often other times it was done to help establish some kind of human exceptionalism.
One of the best stories in the whole series was all about humans and our relations with one another and desire to elevate ourselves beyond our physical limitations and become something more in Project Overlord.
I'm not sure all of this is central to the series, but I do think it was a big part of it and I don't really feel the need to explore that other side. I enjoy race options in DA, it's fun, but I never really found it to be that significant an addition to the overall experience. I really only found the Dwarven noble origin had any significant and worthwhile impact on the main plot. Otherwise the Origins were just interesting introductions and not much else.
Hot Coldman
Banned
I'm out
Then you couldn't have everyone saying you're special because you're human. Absolutely necessary for PLOT. Right?
To be honest, any player who wanted to maximize their XP gains in ME1 would finish every enemies on foot rather than with the Mako's cannon and gun since you lose like half XP when using the Mako.
BIONIC-ARRRMMM!!
Member
Thank God the PC is human only. Keep the story as focused as possible.
I'm very disappointed that the Mako is cannon-less though. Severely limits combat design while exploring. Hope they change their mind on that.
I'm very disappointed that the Mako is cannon-less though. Severely limits combat design while exploring. Hope they change their mind on that.
astroturfing
Member
HELL yeah. this is one thing that really bothers me in a lot of sci-fi, the aliens almost always look waaaay too human.
this and the fact that vehicular planetary exploration is back makes me extremely hopeful.
I wish they'd make the game easily moddable on the PC side this time around. It'd be nice to see something comparable to the Skyrim or Fallout modding communities spring up around a space opera game (adding user-created squadmates, questlines, planets, etc.). Probably too much to hope for, but I can dream.
Oh come on. The main saga of Mass Effect has been done. Having yet another story with only a human protagonist is a missed opportunity for the ultimate customizable Mass Effect game. I want to play as a turian and I'd have loved to see them create dialogue wheels that work in co-op so you can play the campaign with 3 other people. It worked pretty well in SWTOR, why shouldn't it work well here?
thechristoph
Sir!
They've never commented on when this story takes place.
So the armour is going to follow a system akin to Halo 4 and Destiny.
Also, it's interesting to hear about UE3's animation limit. Well all the extra memory they have now, I really hope they don't take a subtract-ive approach like they did with ME3's inability to holster the weapon.
Also, it's interesting to hear about UE3's animation limit. Well all the extra memory they have now, I really hope they don't take a subtract-ive approach like they did with ME3's inability to holster the weapon.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Honestly Dragon Age Origins did characters and cutscenes far better than ME ever did and I played DA:O long after the the trilogy. Your MC didn't speak in the first one but your companions and npc in general were a lot less one dimensional like you'd find in ME.
Here's the panel itself.
edit: And of course it was already posted in the other Mass Effect Comic-Con panel thread. Argh.
edit: And of course it was already posted in the other Mass Effect Comic-Con panel thread. Argh.
DOWN
Banned
They're probably just taking the Dragon age party switch thing
Mass Effect
Member
You know something! Tell me!
That's what they originally planned to do with Mass Effect anyway. Go watch the really early videos from before it launched.
I wouldn't be opposed to character switching per say, I actually want to see more instances like the Collector Base and Citadel DLC where all or some of your other Squadmates participate in battle without being under your direct control. It would be cool if they managed to set up a system that allowed you to direct a second squad in certain combat scenarios efficiently. Especially because this game will be utilizing FB3 which allows for really big ass environments.
And I wouldn't be opposed to the idea of them allowing you to do a GTAV type character swap mechanic where you go from one squad to the other. Though I would prefer the controllable characters be limited to your main PC and his/her second in command, and not just let you jump into any squadmate. This could also allow for co-op though most of the time encounters would just be the same 3 person squad only.
A lot of this is really wrapped up in my own personal desires and wishes for the story, setting and what not for the next game, but I think it could work within reason. That said I still would be extremely opposed to any kind of Divinity type set up with two PCs or any kind of serious extra dialogue or options for the second player to act within the story.
And I wouldn't be opposed to the idea of them allowing you to do a GTAV type character swap mechanic where you go from one squad to the other. Though I would prefer the controllable characters be limited to your main PC and his/her second in command, and not just let you jump into any squadmate. This could also allow for co-op though most of the time encounters would just be the same 3 person squad only.
A lot of this is really wrapped up in my own personal desires and wishes for the story, setting and what not for the next game, but I think it could work within reason. That said I still would be extremely opposed to any kind of Divinity type set up with two PCs or any kind of serious extra dialogue or options for the second player to act within the story.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
"It's not called Mass Effect 4, damn it!" is the new "It's not called Dragon Age 3/Dragon Age 2 never existed".
These comments always make me eye roll. I completely understand wanting the option to play as other species, but this "I'm a human in real life" tomfoolery is stupid.
These comments always make me eye roll. I completely understand wanting the option to play as other species, but this "I'm a human in real life" tomfoolery is stupid.
Spectral Entity
Member
Too lazy to watch a vid...aside from the new game info, is there any mention of another comic series or book?
Considering the thing people go for is default male Shepherd, I think there is an actual marketing thing going on here. The mass market want to play as typical dudebro (in their estimation at least), reflected in the collage of western protagonists that someone posted up here recently where they all look the same (no doubt the developers idolised perception of awesome man).
Give the mantle of the game over to another race and you run the risk of damaging your sales, sad as it is to say.
Also, for Mass Effect, it is important for consistency in storytelling. ME1-3 was all about humanities role in everything. You need a story to revolve around "something".
All of this is very sad as one of the best stories Bioware could tell would be the events that led up to the first Reaper cycle. Where they came from, what drove people to see them as a necessity. It would have a wonderfully down ending too.
Unfortunately that will never happen as there would be no humans.
Isn't this original plan with ME1? I think it was shown in an alpha build.
Opinions.
I like humanity having a part, as one poster wrote the first games very me felt to me like Humanity were the aliens infringing on this new galactic society. It had a sense of isolation and adventure to it that came from that perspective, it also allowed us to view the aliens trough Human eyes in ways we could relate to, which is important for a personal tale.
I think when buolodng a world like this, playing as a human is essential if you're going to be crafting a personal story. Otherwise you just humanise the alien to the point you can relate and it may as well be a human anyway.
One issue that Dragon Age doesn't have is that every race vocalizes the same. If Mass Effect allowed Krogan or other races, all of the dialogue would either need to be different or have some processing done to it. That would potentially be a massive work load. Ditto for animation sets for oversized characters. The camera adjustments alone would be a nightmare.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Not buying the whole "protag is human" thing given the could fairly easily include at least Asari and Turian. The only reason I could see it locked to human is if the story again wanks about humanity.
ComputerMKII
Banned
In a galaxy where interstellar travel has become a common thing, how can they justify introducing races we haven't seen in the one, two, three previous games? Were they hiding the whole time?
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Yeah that made a lot of sense to me, since you have two companions.
It sounds like a lot of the game will be based around (relatively few fully fleshed out) large planets to explore, or am I reading this wrong? Not that the game wont have a lot of planets, but it sounds like in depth exploration is kind of a thing they are going for.
Haha, knew it!
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
In the Milky Way the Mass Effect lore makes a big point of the fact an overwhelming majority of the galaxy has not been charted or even visited. Whether or not that makes sense logistically is irrelevant as that's part of the premise: relays are rarely activated post-Rachni war and so massive portions of the galaxy remain unexplored. Within the lore it would be feasible for a species to evolve into space faring and even colonise nearby systems via an unlocked relay or two and never truly make contact with any other species. Both humans and Turians were in a similar position until they bumped into the Citadel council. I think the Hanar and Drell did too.
Since our (as in the player) window in the Mass Effect universe is exceptionally small, it's actually feasible (within the realm of Mass Effect lore, not logistics) that the entire trilogy and Reaper saga came and went while other early space faring civilisations simply never came in contact with other races. You could have a species having discovered their own relay, unlocked it, settled several nearby systems and advanced their technology, but never managed to come in contact with Citadel space and thus do not appear on any Citadel database. The Reapers in theory would never bother with them during the war, if they knew about them at all, as the focus would be on the more capable races aware and ready for the attack.
I'd actually hoped the next game was kinda like that, set post-trilogy in a post-war universe where scarce resources pressured civilisation to unlock more relays in hope finding resources elsewhere, and in turn coming into first contact with several new space faring species which in turn create new political/social/resource tensions. If the rumours/implications are true then this seems not to be the case, using a "new galaxy" as an excuse for new species.
Eh, the majority of "alien" races were so human anyway that I don't really understand the fuss either way unless we're purely talking about customising our skin.
I'll actually retract my previous points as it really wouldn't matter if the character was a Krogen or Asari or Turian etc... They have so little that's actually meanigfully alien in the way they would control as a playable character that denying the customisation options for any reason seems pretty pointless.
Unless they have some amazing angle to take the Human aspect that requires the protag to be Human. I'm not sure I have /that/ much faith in Bioware's story telling anymore. They do the moment to moment stuff brilliantly, but overall story arcs are not their forte.
I just hope we're not the saviour of the galaxy again. I wan to be on the sidelines watching the story unfold and weaving in and out making small but significant contributions, not playing as space Jesus.
ME was partially a story about human race as a part of galactic events. ME4 will probably be the same.
ComputerMKII
Banned
Oh, OK. Thanks.
Dhruv_hanom
Member
Co-op will be interesting if they implement it.
Dhruv_hanom
Member
I wish it was set after ( slim chance). I don't want to play in the same timeline as shepard. We've already experienced that timeline. I have a general distaste for prequels as no matter what you do, you know whats going to happen in the future making choices irrelevant.
I fully agree with you. The thing about prequels that bothers me the most is that I know how the story ends and the additional back story that prequel provides is often redundant.
And if we play at the same time as Shepard's timeline unravels, we are condemned to play a character of lesser importance (since everything revolves around Shepard's decisions).
When people were requesting playable alien races, I never interpreted that as requesting a create-a-character type deal where you can play as multiple races. It always meant that the single main character would be something other than human. Playing as another bipedal alien in MP is essentially no better than playing with a different skin. It was all that an alien race in SP brings with it that inspired the request in the first place.
Perfect Cha0s
Member
I don't know what to make of that playable race quote, tbh. While it seems cut and dry, I'm holding out hope that the intention behind it was "for sure, the PC can be human," and not "the PC can only be human."