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Mass shooting at church in Charleston, SC

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Well he's clearly not a normal upstanding citizen. But I don't believe he's mentally ill either. So what do you call a person like that? I call them crazy. ISIS isn't full of mentally ill people, they are full of crazy people with crazy ideas who totally understand what they are doing and why they are doing it, same with this guy.

Have you read ISIS interviews and correspondence?

Most of them seem very rational and calculated. They're very aware of what they are doing.

The fact they've been such a pain in the ass to deal with has shown that they are merely not crazy. They're organized. They have a clear mission.
 
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It's okay, we can stop trying to work out if he was mentally ill or not. Turns out he's an undercover brother.

Transracial.
 
Are these supposed to be weird Rachel Dolezal jokes or something? He's clearly white.

Good call. I think they are claiming that he could possibly identify himself as black, so we really can't say for sure yet.

Because they are so understanding. They don't see color.
 
I'm not grouping them together. I'm saying a responsible gun owner probably needs to evaluate whether participating in their hobby is worth the dozens (hundreds?) of lives it could be costing each year.

I don't understand how they can draw a line between their hobby and some other person killing someone with a gun. How does their hobby directly impact someone's shooting death?

That's like saying I shouldn't eat meat because someone somewhere died of food poisoning.
 
"Mental illness" seems to be bandied about these days whenever something tragic happens.

One of my family members has mental problems, not once have they expressed racist views or the urge to kill innocent people. Not once.

This boy is not mentally ill. He's an evil little shit.

Until we get more information, like if he was on meds or something, there's no way to know that. Most mentally ill people are not violent, but pervasive homicidal thoughts can be a (rare) thing, lots of mental illness in my family (myself included), and homicidal thoughts are present in one of my close family members. Mental illness does not excuse the suspect however, this is a person who should not be in public anymore. Just a case of whether they rot in a prison cell, or live in a drugged up stupor 24/7 within a facility. Neither would be a life I'd want, so you're getting punishment and removing the person from society either way.

RIP to all the victims.
 
Since there seems to be a debate on mental health and murder in here I guess I'll throw my own view on it. If the criminal in this situation shows legitimate remorse in his actions then I don't believe the cause to necessarily be due to mental illness. Note that by legitimate remorse I am saying he agrees he deserves punishment for what he did (what that punishment should be is another debate). If however he shows no remorse then I wouldn't be surprised if there was some sort of issue such as antisocial personality disorder or a similar diagnosis. Also there was a group of black psychiatrists who tried to link extreme racism/prejudice with delusional disorder in the civil rights era. It was declined though because it was found racism was so widespread that it was 'normative'. I don't know if there's been any attempts made since then.
 
The Second Amendment is an 18th century compromise with Virginian slaveholders to reassure them that the federal government wouldn't disarm or undermine their slave patrols and leave them defenseless against a slave rebellion. It was ratified to protect human "property" from being sneakily emancipated by new Northern power.

It's a racist law, and it should be repealed or significantly amended to suit our 21st century context. It never will be.

Where did you get this interpretation from? It was written in response to the confiscation of small arms by the British during the revolutionary war, which deprived a lot of people of their only means of food-gathering. It was also written to show that the new Constitution wasn't a tyrannical response to the Whiskey Rebellion. No northern states at the time of writing or ratification were attempting to force emancipation on other states.

That's just not historically accurate.
 
The racial angle is so completely irrelevant.

I don't care if he's black or white or if he's mentally ill or if his intent was to murder based on a racist tendency or just randomly or for political motives.

He murdered people. Period.

Catch him, alive if possible, and then put him to death or stick him in an isolated prison closet for the rest of his life with nothing but a sink, a cot and a toilet.

He is a proven threat to society and has proven the capacity to commit murder. He should never be allowed to roam free again.
 
Guys our media is totally out of control right? How can a "journalist" who is on tv for millions to see go on Twitter and say oh he might not be white, it could be a disguise. Are you fucking kidding me?
 
I'm not grouping them together. I'm saying a responsible gun owner probably needs to evaluate whether participating in their hobby is worth the dozens of lives it could be costing each year.

It's not worth it, except to an industry that profits from every sale and every death that just fuels fear and demand.

Maintaining a broken society is more profitable than fixing it, and allowing it to reach a point where it is unfixable was the most profitable move of all.
 
Guys our media is totally out of control right? How can a "journalist" who is on tv for millions to see go on Twitter and say oh he might not be white, it could be a disguise. Are you fucking kidding me?

The media is terrible (but don't try telling them that because they'll all gang up on you).
 
Guys our media is totally out of control right? How can a "journalist" who is on tv for millions to see go on Twitter and say oh he might not be white, it could be a disguise. Are you fucking kidding me?

Things are even more surreal than usual. I feel like I'm on acid or something.
 
The racial angle is so completely irrelevant.

I don't care if he's black or white or if he's mentally ill or if his intent was to murder based on a racist tendency or just randomly or for political motives.

He murdered people. Period.

Catch him, alive if possible, and then put him to death or stick him in an isolated prison closet for the rest of his life with nothing but a sink, a cot and a toilet.

He is a proven threat to society and has proven the capacity to commit murder. He should never be allowed to roam free again.

he murdered BLACK people. He specifically targeted them. he's as much as a card carrying racist as you can be, he's wearing flags of racist apartheid regimes. Race fucking matters in this situation
 
People trip over themselves trying to find a reason why a good white kid is not responsible for his actions. Fucking sickening. Can't wait until some one blames rap music

This is a really unfortunate thing you're doing, and in a way attempts to suffocate complex conversations around these crimes. It's trying to imply that anyone who faces the reality we live in in which mental health statistically is something the police have to think about, and someone who wants to fix the abhorrent mental heath care industry in this country to prevent more crimes like this, is somehow being racist. Some people are, of course. You know how I feel about this. But acknowledging this is a real possibility does not mean we think he doesn't have responsibility or doesn't require punishment or that the racist element isn't still just as sickening.

But the harsh reality Slayven, the one people hate to acknowledge but is absolutely true, is that our brain governs a huge amount of things relating to how we relate to the world. And our brains malfunction all the time, even with things as simple as visual illusions. When a malfunction is serious enough, it can indeed lead to a higher incidence of violence. And the worse the mental illness is, the less control an individual is likely to have. That said, mental illness != violence, and as most acknowledge we have no idea if this dude will fit the criteria.

But I do think the speculation has a cause, because we keep seeing this happen... and far from just being outraged about the racism and the fact bad things happen in the universe, we want to prevent it as best we can too right? So more families don't have to mourn people who pass too soon?

This is one of those times where there are deeper complexities, and trying to ignore them because we only want to deal with the racist element or the fact that he's a REALLY BAD GUY™ is, well, childish. What are you going to do if the police say he is mentally disabled? Ignore the implications?
 
Cuomo is a CNN "journalist." Delgado is a columnist for the Miami Herald and a Fox News contributor.

The barrier to being a "journalist" is so low that any random person on the internet is qualified. It's all about ratings and hits these days. Screw integrity or even good judgement. It's a sad state of affairs.
 
Guys our media is totally out of control right? How can a "journalist" who is on tv for millions to see go on Twitter and say oh he might not be white, it could be a disguise. Are you fucking kidding me?

Television news has been the wrong place to look for journalistic integrity ever since it became a ratings contest between ideologically driven networks.
 
The racial angle is so completely irrelevant.

I don't care if he's black or white or if he's mentally ill or if his intent was to murder based on a racist tendency or just randomly or for political motives.

He murdered people. Period.

Catch him, alive if possible, and then put him to death or stick him in an isolated prison closet for the rest of his life with nothing but a sink, a cot and a toilet.

He is a proven threat to society and has proven the capacity to commit murder. He should never be allowed to roam free again.

We should probably stop ignoring race issues in the United States.
 
The racial angle is so completely irrelevant.

I don't care if he's black or white or if he's mentally ill or if his intent was to murder based on a racist tendency or just randomly or for political motives.

He murdered people. Period.

Catch him, alive if possible, and then put him to death or stick him in an isolated prison closet for the rest of his life with nothing but a sink, a cot and a toilet.

He is a proven threat to society and has proven the capacity to commit murder. He should never be allowed to roam free again.

IT's not irrelevant. It's a crime modifier and will result in a more serious punishment for this asshole. If you want to debate whether a modifier should be attached to a crime, go make a thread.
 
The racial angle is so completely irrelevant.

I don't care if he's black or white or if he's mentally ill or if his intent was to murder based on a racist tendency or just randomly or for political motives.

He murdered people. Period.

Catch him, alive if possible, and then put him to death or stick him in an isolated prison closet for the rest of his life with nothing but a sink, a cot and a toilet.

He is a proven threat to society and has proven the capacity to commit murder. He should never be allowed to roam free again.

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oh ok
 
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