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[FadedRevolution]

Once again America is proving that a 12-year old black kid with a toy gun is much more dangerous and deserving to get shot on sight than an adult white male that killed multiple people.

 

[phanphare]

piece of shit made it about 45 minutes away from me if the shelby tweet is correct

 

[Amir0x]

Yeah. I don't feel comfortable with this kid who clearly had racist views specifically targeting a black church and being told that race is a non-factor.

His attitude reminds me of the "I'M NOT RACIST, I'M COLOR BLIND" folk, not realizing the racist implications of the phrase.

 

[fixedpoint]

People trip over themselves trying to find a reason why a good white kid is not responsible for his actions. Fucking sickening. Can't wait until some one blames rap music

Not this time - this piece of shit's myspace profile has only one song. "Curses! Another Shape-Shifting Wraith!" by a christian band named "A Thousand Times Repent".

 

[Lan Dong Mik]

So happy they caught this fucking terrorist/racist piece of human shit. Good luck surviving in prison you sick fuck.

 

[Shake Appeal]

Where did you get this interpretation from? It was written in response to the confiscation of small arms by the British during the revolutionary war, which deprived a lot of people of their only means of food-gathering. It was also written to show that the new Constitution wasn't a tyrannical response to the Whiskey Rebellion. No northern states at the time of writing or ratification were attempting to force emancipation on other states.

That's just not historically accurate.

http://law.rwu.edu/story/bogus-slavery-and-2nd-amendment

 

[besada]

"Mental illness" seems to be bandied about these days whenever something tragic happens.

One of my family members has mental problems, not once have they expressed racist views or the urge to kill innocent people. Not once.

The vast majority of people with mental illness are nonviolent, and are much more likely to be victims than perpetrators of violence. Most violent criminals aren't considered mentally ill.

I urge people to read the following articles on the subject:
http://www.newyorker.com/science/maria-konnikova/almost-link-mental-health-gun-violence
https://depts.washington.edu/mhreport/facts_violence.php

And, in particular, this:
http://www.slate.com/articles/healt..._than_mental_illness_to_stop_mass_murder.html

Violence is not a product of mental illness. Nor is violence generally the action of ordinary, stable individuals who suddenly “break” and commit crimes of passion. Violent crimes are committed by violent people, those who do not have the skills to manage their anger. Most homicides are committed by people with a history of violence. Murderers are rarely ordinary, law-abiding citizens, and they are also rarely mentally ill. Violence is a product of compromised anger management skills.

A 2009 study by Seena Fazel found a slightly higher rate of violent crime in schizophrenics—but it was almost entirely accounted for by alcohol and drug abuse. Likewise, the MacArthur Violence Risk Assessment Study found that mentally ill people who did not have a substance abuse problem were no more violent than other people in their neighborhoods.

 

[Netherscourge]

he murdered BLACK people. He specifically targeted them. he's as much as a card carrying racist as you can be, he's wearing flags of racist apartheid regimes. Race fucking matters in this situation

He murdered PEOPLE.

What if he murdered several white people at a church? How would that lessen or enhance the malice of his crime?

It's murder. To make a point of his motive is to give light to his cause.

He doesn't deserve that. He is a murderer of human beings.

 

[CrimzonSamurai]

It's not worth it, except to an industry that profits from every sale and every death that just fuels fear and demand.

Maintaining a broken society is more profitable than fixing it, and allowing it to reach a point where it is unfixable was the most profitable move of all.

That's a mischaracterization based on poor information. The modern gun industry has and always will make most of its profits from military, police, and private security contracts. Generally, companies that specialize in hunting guns will only make those, with maybe a military offshoot. That's not to say they don't like profits or they're callous about the way their products are used, they certainly aren't in favor of stricter gun control, but you can't blame consumers for buying something that its perfectly legitimate for them to purchase.

You probably have a smart phone, and those companies are just as bad if not worse than the gun industry when it comes to the repercussions of their business practices.

Colt is on the verge of bankruptcy now that Iraq & Afghanistan are winding down.

 

[commedieu]

Hope it's real arrested and not "shot in the chest then handcuffs put on" arrested. I want to see this criminal actually go to trial and punished.

Hes not black. We are in for a media circus.

 

[Big Baybee]

He murdered PEOPLE.

What if he murdered several white people at a church? How would that lessen or enhance the malice of his crime?

It's murder. To make a point of his motive is to give light to his cause.

He doesn't deserve that. He is a murderer of human beings.

what are you doing? What is this?

 

[Slayven]

This is a really unfortunate thing you're doing, and in a way attempts to suffocate complex conversations around these crimes. It's trying to imply that anyone who faces the reality we live in in which mental health statistically is something the police have to think about, and someone who wants to fix the abhorrent mental heath care industry in this country to prevent more crimes like this, is somehow being racist. Some people are, of course. You know how I feel about this. But acknowledging this is a real possibility does not mean we think he doesn't have responsibility or doesn't require punishment or that the racist element isn't still just as sickening.

But the harsh reality Slayven, the one people hate to acknowledge but is absolutely true, is that our brain governs a huge amount of things relating to how we relate to the world. And our brains malfunction all the time, even with things as simple as visual illusions. When a malfunction is serious enough, it can indeed lead to a higher incidence of violence. That said, mental illness != violence, and as most acknowledge we have no idea if this dude will fit the criteria.

But I do think the speculation has a cause, because we keep seeing this happen... and far from just being outraged about the racism and the fact bad things happen in the universe, we want to prevent it as best we can too right? So more families don't have to mourn people who pass too soon?

But this is one of those times where there are deeper complexities, and trying to ignore them because we only want to deal with the racist element or the fact that he's a REALLY BAD GUY™ is, well, childish. What are you going to do if the police say he is mentally disabled? Ignore the implications?

This piece of fucking shit walked up and murdered 9 people whose only sin was being black in America, and it is a sin lets not forget that as the media will never let us forget. His mental issues are irrelevant, and for you keep pushing this sick narrative like a fox pundit and disgusting. And I expected expected better.

I am fucking tired of everyone getting the benefit of the of the doubt except the victims. It is so fucking disheartening. Paragraph after paragraph why this kid got to be handled with kid gloves and why we must know more about him. I rather know more about Sen. Pinckney-.


Put this piece of shit in the box and let the doctors poke and prod him all they want.

 

[hobblygobbly]

I'm not American so I don't know if the U.S sees terrorism differently but isn't this domestic terrorism? U.S citizen carried out a systematic intentional attack on specific group of U.S citizens plus his views/what he said which has incited terror amongst black people. I don't see U.S media calling it domestic terrorism but seeing international media calling it as such. To me it's obvious domestic terrorism.

 

[HighResTomato]

Fox news trying to spin this into an "Attack on Christianity" is fucking disgusting. I really feel sorry for Americans having this poison on their tv.

 

[Opto]

Once again America is proving that a 12-year old black kid with a toy gun is much more dangerous and deserving to get shot on site than an adult white male that killed multiple people.

Seriously.

I hope at least this fucker tripped and broke his nose when he was getting arrested

 

[Nokagi]

I just don't equate crazy with ISIS personally.

How do you define it? I think that's the issue.

Crazy is just what I would call a person who becomes twisted by ideas, beliefs or their life experiences. I see crazy and mentally ill as two different things.Guess that's the problem we are having.

 

[Ke0]

We should probably stop ignoring race issues in the United States.

Many Americans are brought up on the idea that if you ignore racism it goes away. I struggle to think of any time in world history that ignoring oppression and mistreatment makes it go away, yet by large many people truly believe that of racism. Obviously the reason they say that is because talking about racism makes them uncomfortable even though they're not the ones affected by racism.

Still, it's funny to hear people say "ignore racism".

 

[marrec]

He murdered PEOPLE.

What if he murdered several white people at a church? How would that lessen or enhance the malice of his crime?

Then it wouldn't have been racially motivated?

Holy shit, what is it you're even trying to argue?

Listen, he can be a murderer who is also a racist. Like, that's PART OF AMERICAN HISTORY. Us White Folks have had a quite a few high profile racist murderers.

 

[Shake Appeal]

What if he murdered several white people at a church? How would that lessen or enhance the malice of his crime?

Well, it would lessen the case that it was a hate crime against a protected class. So even if you blind yourself to all the other facets of this (for whatever rhetorically heated reason), his motive has legal implications.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

The racial angle is so completely irrelevant.

I don't care if he's black or white or if he's mentally ill or if his intent was to murder based on a racist tendency or just randomly or for political motives.

He murdered people. Period.

Catch him, alive if possible, and then put him to death or stick him in an isolated prison closet for the rest of his life with nothing but a sink, a cot and a toilet.

He is a proven threat to society and has proven the capacity to commit murder. He should never be allowed to roam free again.

Not to come down hard on you in particular,

But this is like last year's "Misogyny isn't the issue here. Eliot Rodgers was a murderer and he ended his life after his rampage. Now let's never think about this naughty person again."

Over and over again, it's

Not the right time to talk about racism
Not the right time to talk about toxic MRAs
Not the right time to talk about guns
Not the right time to talk about police reform


Guys pls, we just need more time for you to forget about this incident so nothing has to change.

 

[DrForester]

Once again America is proving that a 12-year old black kid with a toy gun is much more dangerous and deserving to get shot on site than an adult white male that killed multiple people.

Not all to diminish the travesty of the Tamir Rice case, but lets wait till we hear how he was arrested (if he was arrested) to start tossing that out. Maybe it was like the Aurora Theater shooter who wanted to be caught and surrendered at the first sight of police.

 

[commedieu]

Many Americans are brought up on the idea that if you ignore racism it goes away. I struggle to think of any time in world history that ignoring oppression and mistreatment makes it go away, yet by large many people truly believe that of racism. Obviously the reason they say that is because talking about racism makes them uncomfortable even though they're not the ones affected by racism.

Still, it's funny to hear people say "ignore racism".

Also, you can witness that upbringing in this very thread.

 

[bchamba]

Then it wouldn't have been racially motivated?

Holy shit, what is it you're even trying to argue?

Listen, he can be a murderer who is also a racist. Like, that's PART OF AMERICAN HISTORY. Us White Folks have had a quite a few high profile racist murderers.

No, he's just a mass murderer. God forbid you call him a racist.

 

[SliceSabre]

He murdered PEOPLE.

What if he murdered several white people at a church? How would that lessen or enhance the malice of his crime?

It's murder. To make a point of his motive is to give light to his cause.

He doesn't deserve that. He is a murderer of human beings.

In the United States we have hate-crime statutes which intensifies the nature of the crime he committed.

Trying to ignore the racial aspect of the crime, considering this nation's absolute shit history with blacks, is simply a way of trying to lessen how terrible the crime he committed is and you ought to be ashamed of yourself. I'm actually disgusted we're having this conversation.

 

[LiK]

He was caught. Good news.

 

[Cat]

The vast majority of people with mental illness are nonviolent, and are much more likely to be victims than perpetrators of violence. Most violent criminals aren't considered mentally ill.

I urge people to read the following articles on the subject:
http://www.newyorker.com/science/maria-konnikova/almost-link-mental-health-gun-violence
https://depts.washington.edu/mhreport/facts_violence.php

And, in particular, this:
http://www.slate.com/articles/healt..._than_mental_illness_to_stop_mass_murder.html

Thanks for these. I've seen other say that too, that people with mental illness are more likely to be victims, but often in tweets and not directly cited.

 

[DrForester]

NBC now reporting on it's front page that he was captured.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ch...shooting-suspect-dylann-roof-captured-n377546

 

[Fenderputty]

He murdered PEOPLE.

What if he murdered several white people at a church? How would that lessen or enhance the malice of his crime?

It's murder. To make a point of his motive is to give light to his cause.

He doesn't deserve that. He is a murderer of human beings.

You're still ignorant that fact that race will modify this crime to a higher level. It's relevant. Give it a rest.

 

[CrimzonSamurai]

http://law.rwu.edu/story/bogus-slavery-and-2nd-amendment

That's an interesting take, but clearly is informed by an anti-gun ideology. I don't think I can give his thesis much credit. The Southern states had the 1800 clause inserted so that wouldn't be an issue to begin with, and then that was extended to 1808.

http://www.crf-usa.org/black-history-month/the-constitution-and-slavery

The north had no manufacturing sector at the time and southern agriculture was the entire nation's main source of income, none of the northern states were interested in outright emancipation. At the time of the Convention the most radical anti-slave view was that we should halt imports of new slaves.

 

[CrazyDogg77]

This is a really unfortunate thing you're doing, and in a way attempts to suffocate complex conversations around these crimes. It's trying to imply that anyone who faces the reality we live in in which mental health statistically is something the police have to think about, and someone who wants to fix the abhorrent mental heath care industry in this country to prevent more crimes like this, is somehow being racist. Some people are, of course. You know how I feel about this. But acknowledging this is a real possibility does not mean we think he doesn't have responsibility or doesn't require punishment or that the racist element isn't still just as sickening.

But the harsh reality Slayven, the one people hate to acknowledge but is absolutely true, is that our brain governs a huge amount of things relating to how we relate to the world. And our brains malfunction all the time, even with things as simple as visual illusions. When a malfunction is serious enough, it can indeed lead to a higher incidence of violence. And the worse the mental illness is, the less control an individual is likely to have. That said, mental illness != violence, and as most acknowledge we have no idea if this dude will fit the criteria.

But I do think the speculation has a cause, because we keep seeing this happen... and far from just being outraged about the racism and the fact bad things happen in the universe, we want to prevent it as best we can too right? So more families don't have to mourn people who pass too soon?

This is one of those times where there are deeper complexities, and trying to ignore them because we only want to deal with the racist element or the fact that he's a REALLY BAD GUY™ is, well, childish. What are you going to do if the police say he is mentally disabled? Ignore the implications?

I fully agree but it's pretty telling that the mental health angle is rarely if ever talked about when the perpetrator of a crime such as this is not white

 

[Opto]

He murdered PEOPLE.

What if he murdered several white people at a church? How would that lessen or enhance the malice of his crime?

It's murder. To make a point of his motive is to give light to his cause.

He doesn't deserve that. He is a murderer of human beings.

So... racism didn't play into this?

 

[Daingurse]

The racial angle is so completely irrelevant.

I don't care if he's black or white or if he's mentally ill or if his intent was to murder based on a racist tendency or just randomly or for political motives.

He murdered people. Period.

Catch him, alive if possible, and then put him to death or stick him in an isolated prison closet for the rest of his life with nothing but a sink, a cot and a toilet.

He is a proven threat to society and has proven the capacity to commit murder. He should never be allowed to roam free again.

Going by the quotes earlier, there is definitely a racial component and it shouldn't be ignored.

I fully agree but it's pretty telling that the mental health angle is rarely if ever talked about when the perpetrator of a crime such as this is not white

Always found this frustrating as a black man suffering with mental illness, the narrative rarely appears with people of color. I can't really help that though, some sort of inherent bias with people I guess.

 

[Valhelm]

The vast majority of people with mental illness are nonviolent, and are much more likely to be victims than perpetrators of violence. Most violent criminals aren't considered mentally ill.

I urge people to read the following articles on the subject:
http://www.newyorker.com/science/maria-konnikova/almost-link-mental-health-gun-violence
https://depts.washington.edu/mhreport/facts_violence.php

And, in particular, this:
http://www.slate.com/articles/healt..._than_mental_illness_to_stop_mass_murder.html

Does that not only include people who have been diagnosed, though?

 

[jim-jam bongs]

He murdered PEOPLE.

What if he murdered several white people at a church? How would that lessen or enhance the malice of his crime?

It's murder. To make a point of his motive is to give light to his cause.

He doesn't deserve that. He is a murderer of human beings.

That's really not the point of identifying the motives of a murderer. To use a current analogy, if we look at whether racism plays a part in why a cop guns down an unarmed person, we are not attempting to suggest that the cop isn't poorly trained and overly aggressive; their response is the product of myriad factors, they don't cancel one another out. These kinds of incidents have causes which are rarely one-sided, and it's important to look at all factors in order to find out if we as a society can do anything to prevent these horrifying incidents in the future.

 

[Amir0x]

This piece of fucking shit walked up and murdered 9 people whose only sin was being black in America, and it is a sin lets not forget that as the media will never let us forget. His mental issues are irrelevant, and for you keep pushing this sick narrative like a fox pundit and disgusting. And I expected expected better.

I am fucking tired of everyone getting the benefit of the of the doubt except the victims. It is so fucking disheartening. Paragraph after paragraph why this kid got to be handled with kid gloves and why we must know more about him. I rather know more about Sen. Pinckney-.


Put this piece of shit in the box and let the doctors poke and prod him all they want.

You're letting your emotions get the best of you, and you're unable to discuss this issue with any maturity or complexity. I get it, you're upset. But until you can come back with some respect and actually address the points raised in a meaningful way, don't bother trying to imply I'm some Fox News peon who has racist subtext in his commentary. You're better than that.

 

[victreeb3l]

Was this posted? Sticker for a gun sale attached to the front page.

Nice non apology here too: http://jimromenesko.com/2015/06/18/...gun-range-ad-on-charleston-papers-front-page/

Stay classy, Charleston Post & Courier

 

[entremet]

Glad he's caught.

Not a good look for law enforcement giving the recent killing of black males, though.

You know it's gonna be brought up.

 

[jmdajr]

The picture on CNN is frightening.

 

[DrFunk]

So... racism didn't play into this?

'course not! /s

 

[besada]

Thanks for these. I've seen other say that too, that people with mental illness are more likely to be victims, but often in tweets and not directly cited.

I don't have it at hand, but I read a study that showed the mentally ill were up to two times as likely to be victims of violent crimes, often at the hands of family members.

Does that not only include people who have been diagnosed, though?

Depends on the study. Some studies are based off of post-crime diagnosis, some off of pre-crime, and some of self reporting, allowing non-diagnosed but aware individuals to report violence and whether their illness was involved. I think it's fair to say it's a tricky question, given we don't have hard and fast rule for who we consider mentally ill. Are we talking about people who've had a single bout of major depression or anxiety? Mood disorders? Personality disorders? Anger disorders? Schizophrenics?

Frankly, the argument seems to be that only a mentally ill person could do this sort of thing, which is a tautology. It doesn't produce any useful information, but it does continue to increase the stigma against people living with a mental illness, the vast majority of whom are not going to commit a violent crime.

 

[Glendemonium]

It's okay, we can stop trying to work out if he was mentally ill or not. Turns out he's an undercover brother.

Wow, the denial is strong with those tweets. They're trying so hard to rationalize it.

 

[ICKE]

What the hell is wrong with people like Cuomo? The attack was clearly inspired by racism. If you fail to understand that then perhaps there is something really nasty down there in your own psyche.

It is bad enough that African-Americans have to deal with institutionalized racism and lack of opportunities. But then you have these nut jobs who make excuses after a church was attacked.

 

[Fenderputty]

I fully agree but it's pretty telling that the mental health angle is rarely if ever talked about when the perpetrator of a crime such as this is not white

I feel like most mass shootings in the states are white males doing it though?

 

[Htown]

He murdered PEOPLE.

What if he murdered several white people at a church? How would that lessen or enhance the malice of his crime?

It's murder. To make a point of his motive is to give light to his cause.

He doesn't deserve that. He is a murderer of human beings.

Sorry if talking about race in America makes you uncomfortable, but it was a racially motivated murder spree.

We aren't responsible for the integrity of your fingers-in-the-ears approach to the issue.

 

[Netherscourge]

what are you doing? What is this?

Sometimes when I see people using stuff like race as a motive or mental illness as a defense, it makes me wonder why we're trying to scale the level of a crime.

In this case, it's mass-murder. It's final. There are no degrees, IMO. Especially in this case.

If you murder people - you deserve to die (or rot in prison forever).

But it's never left at that. The media goes further to develop a background, a record, a history... it just angers me that they're constantly trying to classify these things when they should be, excuse the pun, black or white.

If you do this, you will get that as punishment. Why can't that be the norm?

 

[outunderthestars]

Excellent work by the Shelby NC police. I share an office with my town's police department and I know they had everyone out looking for the car. Guess they had reason to (rightfully) believe he was headed this way.

 

[ezrarh]

Not this time - this piece of shit's myspace profile has only one song. "Curses! Another Shape-Shifting Wraith!" by a christian band named "A Thousand Times Repent".

He still had a myspace profile? Probably should have watched him more closely and definitely not given him a gun.

 

[commedieu]

They put hate crime in quotes.

Wow.

Getting real sick of america.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

I feel like most mass shootings in the states are white males doing it though?

I struggle to think of a single one that wasn't. At least when it comes to spree killers.

 

[Ray Wonder]

Was this posted? Sticker for a gun sale attached to the front page.

Nice non apology here too: http://jimromenesko.com/2015/06/18/...gun-range-ad-on-charleston-papers-front-page/

Stay classy, Charleston Post & Courier

Papers post ads. They don't determine when they post the ads by what the cover story is. The ad says "Thursday", so the person/company who paid for the ad most likely paid for it to be on the cover on a certain day. It's irrelevant to the cover story.