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Mass shooting at church in Charleston, SC

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Dude Abides said:
Thanks. In a rational world there would be no question this was terrorism.




Is it a Pavlovian thing where any time a right winger sees the word nigger they have to talk about Byrd, even if it has nothing at all to do with the topic?
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I mean..it's AMAZING how many times I've witnessed it. When I finally think I'll never see it happen again, oh..hello again!
FiggyCal said:
Dylan Roofs manifesto was allegedly found: http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2015/06/20/reports-dylann-roof-s-manifesto-found.html

I read some of it. If it is real, the guy discovered some conservative propaganda during Trayvon Martin's case and realized his hatred of black people.
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In the end, it's all Trayvon Martin's fault..we've always known this to be true.
 
joedan said:
Yeah. About that...




Bail wasn't why it was immediately clear to me that he was racist. The fact that after 9 black people were gunned down by a racist asshole in a church, the first thing the judge did in the court [to the face of the relatives of the mudered victims] was to give some pontification speech about people needing to be sympathetic to the racist murderer's family.
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Asking for sympathy for the shooter's family doesn't strike me as racist. He's not wrong - but that was inappropriate given the circumstances.

Cow Mengde said:
So who think Mr. Roof will get 5 years in prison and possible parole on good behavior?
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I know this is supposed to be a joke, but its not a very good one. The guy killed 9 people. The governor of south carolina - who was a Tea Party Republican (which, according to the internet, would make her the most racist of racist racists to ever racist) - wants him on death row. This kid isn't getting off, no matter how racist the South Carolina system is.
 
Amir0x said:
PREFACE:

This is what the ACTUAL SHOOTER had to say about the event ->



Very quickly after this story broke, we already knew it was about racism, as pictured surfaced with the Apartheid badge he wore and comments about what he said during the shooting coming out.


Stupid shit Republicans/far-right news individuals have said so far on the South Carolina shooting:

Jeb Bush:

"I don't know what was on the mind or the heart of the man who committed these atrocious crimes..."

Link

Lindsey Graham:

“I just think one of these whacked out kids. I don’t think it’s anything broader than that. It’s about a young man who is obviously twisted.”

Later he admitted race was a component, but pretended it was the religion that was the primary factor. When asked if he thought race or his mental state was a factor...

“Probably both. There are real people out there that are organized to kill people in religion and based on race. This guy is just whacked out. But it’s 2015, there are people out there looking for Christians to kill them. This is a mean time we live in."

Link

Bobby Jindal:

"Law enforcement will figure out what his so-called motivations were."

Link

Rick Perry:

"It seems to me, again without having all the details about this, that these individuals have been medicated and there may be a real issue in this country from the standpoint of these drugs and how they’re used."

Link

Rick Santorum:

"You’re sort of lost that somebody could walk into a Bible study in a church and indiscriminately kill people. You talk about the importance of prayer in this time and we’re now seeing assaults on our religious liberty we’ve never seen before. It’s a time for deeper reflection beyond this horrible situation."

Link

Rudy Giuliani:

"We have no idea what's in his mind. Maybe he hates Christian churches. Maybe he hates black churches or he's gonna go find another one. Who knows."

Who knows indeed, Rudy Giuliani.

Link

Mike Huckabee:

"It sounds crass, but frankly the best way to stop a bad person with a gun is to have a good person with a weapon that is equal or superior to the one that he’s using."

Link

Rand Paul:

"We had a shooting this morning in South Carolina. What kind of person goes into church and shoots nine people? There’s a sickness in our country, there’s something terribly wrong, but it isn’t going to be fixed by your government. It’s people straying away, it’s people not understanding where salvation comes from. And I think that if we understand that, we’ll understand and have better expectations of what we get from our government.

Link

Steve Doocy of Fox & Friends:

"It's Extraordinary That Charleston Church Shooting Is Being Called A Hate Crime."

Link

Erick Erickson, Redstate.com and Fox News Contributor:

“A society that looks at a 65 year old male Olympian and, with a straight face, declares him a her and ‘a new normal’ cannot have a conversation about mental health or evil because that society no longer distinguishes normal from crazy and evil from good. Our American society has a mental illness — overwhelming narcissism and delusion — and so cannot recognize what crazy or evil looks like.”

Link
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Martha MacCullum of Fox News claiming that part of the problem lies in "diversity":

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/06/fox...ifferent-cultures-living-together-in-america/

NRA board member: "It was the pastor's fault for not allowing gun owners to carry their weapons":

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/...ckney-charleston-shooting-119202.html?hp=l2_4

A Voice For Men's Dean Esmay: "This is the fault of feminism and lies about rape culture":

http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2015/...nism-and-its-alleged-lies-about-rape-culture/

Anything else?
 
No (White) Son of American can be just be a piece of shit racist. The blacks deserved it, or the Transgenders made him, or Obama made him do it.
 
Amir0x said:
Rick Perry[/b]:

"It seems to me, again without having all the details about this, that these individuals have been medicated and there may be a real issue in this country from the standpoint of these drugs and how they’re used."

Link
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Ok, I know there's not much logic in a lot of the things these people say but where is this coming from? I don't understand what reasoning they have for thinking these drugs cause psychotic behavior.

Is it just terrible correlation analysis on their part? Like, they see unstable people are on drugs and for some reason they think it was the drugs that made them that way when they do something bad? I'd really like an explanation on this.

Also, thanks for the great, but frustrating, post.
 
Enron said:
I know this is supposed to be a joke, but its not a very good one. The guy killed 9 people. The governor of south carolina - who was a Tea Party Republican (which, according to the internet, would make her the most racist of racist racists to ever racist) - wants him on death row. This kid isn't getting off, no matter how racist the South Carolina system is.
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It wasn't a joke. I have no faith in the American justice system anymore.
 
brochiller said:
Ok, I know there's not much logic in a lot of the things these people say but where is this coming from? I don't understand what reasoning they have for thinking these drugs cause psychotic behavior.

Is it just terrible correlation analysis on their part? Like, they see unstable people are on drugs and for some reason they think it was the drugs that made them that way when they do something bad? I'd really like an explanation on this.

Also, thanks for the great, but frustrating, post.
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What's worse to me is this idea that even if we do want to buy into their logic about mental illness (which is bullshit to begin with, but let's play pretend for a moment...), what does it say that they sit here and blame the mental illness epidemic in this country (and use/misuse of psychotic drugs), and then turn around and do everything in their power to cut funding by departments who would be the ones responsible for helping the issue and argue against legislation meant to provide mental health options to those who can't afford it?
 
Enron said:
Asking for sympathy for the shooter's family doesn't strike me as racist. He's not wrong - but that was inappropriate given the circumstances.



I know this is supposed to be a joke, but its not a very good one. The guy killed 9 people. The governor of south carolina - who was a Tea Party Republican (which, according to the internet, would make her the most racist of racist racists to ever racist) - wants him on death row. This kid isn't getting off, no matter how racist the South Carolina system is.
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The context in which he said it makes it racist.

When OJ killed his exwife was any judge in the United States going to start any legal proceedings by going off on a speech about sympathy for OJ's family? Was any judge going to go on any news channel after for an interview saying with respect to OJ "It's best to learn to forgive?" please.
 
Those comments from presidential candidates should be disqualifying in light of the mountain of evidence about why this happened and what Roof's intentions were. But of course they won't be.
 
RyanDG said:
What's worse to me is this idea that even if we do want to buy into their logic about mental illness (which is bullshit to begin with, but let's play pretend for a moment...), what does it say that they sit here and blame the mental illness epidemic in this country (and use/misuse of psychotic drugs), and then turn around and do everything in their power to cut funding by departments who would be the ones responsible for helping the issue and argue against legislation meant to provide mental health options to those who can't afford it?
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The ' mental health' response is disingenuous. Not because it isn't relevant. (It is. No one sane would commit such an atrocious act). But because it lends a lot towards the 'crazy is as crazy does'. They are angling it towards the " Nothing can be actually done to prevent such ' craziness' cuz each crazy is unique". Therefore, cuts to fundings, etc.

The gears are well oiled to make sure the status quo of power dynamic remains.
 
Shake Appeal said:
Those comments from presidential candidates should be disqualifying in light of the mountain of evidence about why this happened and what Roof's intentions were. But of course they won't be.
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A considerable part of the republican base don't want to engage in a discussion about racism and would probably prefer to believe it resolved itself years ago.

Like I posted earlier; we can actually read what Dylan Roof said his motivations were in his manifesto. It was all about race and what he heard from conservative outlets.

YesNOnoNOYes said:
The ' mental health' response is disingenuous. Not because it isn't relevant. (It is. No one sane would commit such an atrocious act). But because it lends a lot towards the 'crazy is as crazy does'. They are angling it towards the " Nothing can be actually done to prevent such ' craziness' cuz each crazy is unique". Therefore, cuts to fundings, etc.

The gears are well oiled to make sure the status quo of power dynamic remains.
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It's only disingenuous if you say that the only reason he committed these murders was because of his mental illness.
 
joedan said:
The context in which he said it makes it racist.

When OJ killed his exwife was any judge in the United States going to start any legal proceedings by going off on a speech about sympathy for OJ's family? Was any judge going to go on any news channel after for an interview saying with respect to OJ "It's best to learn to forgive?" please.
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That still doesn't explain how it is racist. He didn't ask for sympathy for the shooter, nor did he ignore the victims. And he then turned the hearing over to the victims' families, affording them a chance to speak. Roof's family got no more than a "pray for them too" mention.

A Charleston, South Carolina judge Friday afternoon set a $1 million bond on a weapons charge against Dylann Storm Roof, the 21-year-old white man who has reportedly confessed to gunning down nine black church congregants Wednesday night.

The judge did not have the authority to set bond on nine counts of murder leveled against Roof, who appeared in court via prison satellite. Roof, dressed in a pinstriped jumpsuit, appeared sober and cast his eyes downward as he softly answered the judge's questions with "yes sir" and "no sir."

Before addressing the weapons charge, the judge told the courtroom filled with victims' relatives that while there were nine dead from the racially motivated actions, "we also have victims on the other side," referring to Roof's relatives.

"We must find it in our heart to not only help those who are victims, but also to help his family as well," he said.

The judge then allowed family members of the victims to speak before the court. Many rose to offer their forgiveness to Roof and asked him to repent or confess to his crimes.
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Enron said:
Asking for sympathy for the shooter's family doesn't strike me as racist. He's not wrong - but that was inappropriate given the circumstances.
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He's being rather gracious. The judge is not saying that Roof's behavior is evidence of a broken home, or "culture" (to give a few common examples). He is giving Roof's family the benefit of the doubt. This is rather magnanimous of him, and as you say it isn't "wrong", but it's a level of sympathy that we don't typically extend to the families of terrorists. One might imagine a judge in Boston saying as such about the Tsarnevs, and the city would be justifiably upset. So why start with that?

In-group bias is a very well known, heavily studied sociological phenomenon: we tend to give people who are like us the benefit of the doubt. To put it bluntly: in group bias from people in power is one of the nicer things about being a white person in America. So while an unusually charitable Judge may not strike you personally as racist, it can easily (and understandably) be taken as evidence of racial bias. This is after all, a judge who described n****ers as one of the four groups of people in the world -- but likewise, a lot of people will give the judge the benefit of the doubt about his intentions behind that statement, and will take his explanation ("It's OK, I heard it first from a black person") at face value.
 
FiggyCal said:
A considerable part of the republican base don't want to engage in a discussion about racism and would probably prefer to believe it resolved itself years ago.

Like I posted earlier; we can actually read what Dylan Roof said his motivations were in his manifesto. It was all about race and what he heard from conservative outlets.



It's only disingenuous if you say that the only reason he committed these murders was because of his mental illness.
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I mean, I find their ' mental health' response unconvincing, for the reasons as above. I doubt there will be fundings and support in the future to ensure the kinds of tragedies does not occur anymore.

I don't mean the actual response as disingenuous. But the politicians who are touting it.

Sorry for bad phrasing.



As for me personally, I think it's definitely a combination of gross racism, toxic culture and mental health issues.
 
https://twitter.com/MittRomney/status/612276050182049792
Take down the #ConfederateFlag at the SC Capitol. To many, it is a symbol of racial hatred. Remove it now to honor #Charleston victims.
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Enron said:
Kind of curious what is in the photos archive on that site, not brave enough to actually download.
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PVnHSsUl.jpg


Uq70s6Sl.jpg


1hElOFbl.jpg


Just some from SA
 
Enron said:
That still doesn't explain how it is racist. He didn't ask for sympathy for the shooter, nor did he ignore the victims. And he then turned the hearing over to the victims' families, affording them a chance to speak. Roof's family got no more than a "pray for them too" mention.
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It's racist because he would not exist that curtsey to a black murderer-of-9's family.

Does a white traffic cop extending sympathy to a white person speeding and not giving that person a traffic ticket explain why he's racist? No.

Now add some context.

Does a white traffic cop extending sympathy to a white person speeding and not giving them a ticket, despite giving a ticket to every black driver that sped past explain why he's racist? Yes.
 
joedan said:
It's racist because he would not exist that curtsey to a black murderer-of-9's family.

Does a white traffic cop extending sympathy to a white person speeding and not giving that person a traffic ticket explain why he's racist? No.

Now add some context.

Does a white traffic cop extending sympathy to a white person speeding and not giving them a ticket, despite giving a ticket to every black driver that sped past explain why he's racist? Yes.
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This is a terrible analogy. How many black mass murderers have come through this guy's courtroom to base all these assumptions on? It's just pure speculation on your part.

It seems very strange to devote all this energy at the bond hearing judge, when he set this kid's bond at 1 million dollars just for the weapon charges, AND let the victim's families say their piece. Nothing about this suggests he's biased in favor of the defendant.
 
I am really hating waking up, trying to read some news, only to see how blatantly racist this whole thing is, and how hard people are tying to deny it. The people in charge of making our laws no less.

Why the fuck is this country so damn worthless at this point.

The United States runs on racism like it runs on credit. NOTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE. GUARANTEED.
 
The manifesto should be ignored, it doesn't deserve attention and I hope the media don't dedicate time to such vile garbage, but those pictures... Go nuts.
 
Enron said:
This is a terrible analogy. How many black mass murderers have come through this guy's courtroom to base all these assumptions on? It's just pure speculation on your part.

It seems very strange to devote all this energy at the bond hearing judge, when he set this kid's bond at 1 million dollars just for the weapon charges, AND let the victim's families say their piece. Nothing about this suggests he's biased in favor of the defendant.
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“There are four kinds of people in this world—black people, white people, red necks, and n---rs,” Gosnell advised a black defendant in a November 6, 2003 bond reduction hearing.
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I think he may be a bit of a racist.
 
Enron said:
This is a terrible analogy. How many black mass murderers have come through this guy's courtroom to base all these assumptions on? It's just pure speculation on your part.

It seems very strange to devote all this energy at the bond hearing judge, when he set this kid's bond at 1 million dollars just for the weapon charges, AND let the victim's families say their piece. Nothing about this suggests he's biased in favor of the defendant.
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Speculation indeed. Scientific theory starts with observation and speculation.
 
Big Baybee said:
I think he may be a bit of a racist.
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He quoted the N-word. Not a good look obviously, but that doesn't make Roof's bond hearing racist. Nothing was "racist" about it. The shooter got a huge fucking bond, and the focus of the hearing was on the families of his victims. Explain to me how this indicates BIAS towards the shooter.

It doesn't.

joedan said:
Speculation indeed. Scientific theory starts with observation and speculation.
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Oh good lord.
 
Yaphett Kotto said:
This guy is obviously troubled and we should have a conversation on why he would commit such crimes.
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Fuck that. Nobody has conversations about why ISIS does what it does. We all just accept it for what it is Terrorism. Maybe you are being sarcastic. At this point it's really hard to tell anymore.
 
YesNOnoNOYes said:
I mean, I find their ' mental health' response unconvincing, for the reasons as above. I doubt there will be fundings and support in the future to ensure the kinds of tragedies does not occur anymore.

I don't mean the actual response as disingenuous. But the politicians who are touting it.

Sorry for bad phrasing.


As for me personally, I think it's definitely a combination of gross racism, toxic culture and mental health issues.
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I agree. I think most egregious is claiming that this attack was because of Christianity. At least with the mental health angle, I can forgive it for being off the mark or not being entirely untrue, but saying that Christians are under attack is frankly insulting.

I'll also add that I think Obama was also wrong in his response for bringing gun control into it.
 
oh my god that american flag burning pic mixed with him waving the confederate flag is fucking too perfect. that has to be on every news channel during this Charleston SC flag debate
 
Another thought. I really hate that this terrorist piece of shit is now 'famous' fuck these pictures I'd rather not see them. I'd rather nobody sees them. This piece of shit terrorist doesn't deserve the 'publicity'.
 
FiggyCal said:
I agree. I think most egregious is claiming that this attack was because of Christianity. At least with the mental health angle, I can forgive it for being off the mark or not being entirely untrue, but saying that Christians are under attack is frankly insulting.
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it's straight up pathetic, attempting to make this about THEM and THEIR religion, not the victims and racial hatred.
 
Enron said:
Not to mention JEAN SHORTS
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Nothing makes you look harder than wearing jean shorts and standing over your lovely collection of daisies. While holding a semi-auto.

I have a feeling this will become a meme of some kind.

White power... meets flower power.
 
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