Sprinklers are hugely expensive, especially when a building is already "fire proof?"
The argument is that as you make housing more expensive, less of it gets built.
But since London don't build housing anyway...
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Massive Fire in High Rise Apartment in London
- Thread starter superdeluxe
- Start date
The argument is that as you make housing more expensive, less of it gets built.
But since London don't build housing anyway...
frankie_baby
Member
Hasnt it already been confirmed it was the flammable cladding? If so then a lot of people will be going to jail
JonnyDBrit
Member
If it is shown to be that type of cladding, and it is outright banned for tower blocks like that, then this is more than incredibly lethal negligence that deserves justice even if nothing was 'technically' wrong. It's an outright crime.
fire safety cladding is a strange choice of words. From what I've read it's aluminium composite cladding is allowed in England on high rises as long as there are fire breaks on each level and on each window and door. Presumably that would be as insulation not fire safety cladding, the fire safety coming from the breaks.
In the UK is fire safety originated at legislated?
The USA gets its fire safety regs, largely from private industry.
Dirtyshubb
Member
https://twitter.com/Faysal_FreeGaza/status/876282657818238977
Locals told by fireman on scene that they found 42 people all in one room early on.
Horrifying stuff.
Locals told by fireman on scene that they found 42 people all in one room early on.
Horrifying stuff.
Whoever signed off on this is sooooooooooo fucked.
There was legislation passed in Wales a year or so ago which made it mandatory for all new builds to have a sprinkler system.
Raigan5088
Banned
"And apologies ring hollow
From the guilty in Whitehall
And there's no hint of sorrow
Just the whitewash on the wall"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oa-Dnnxr2HA
Was listening to this song today, lyrics are very relevant for this disaster
From the guilty in Whitehall
And there's no hint of sorrow
Just the whitewash on the wall"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oa-Dnnxr2HA
Was listening to this song today, lyrics are very relevant for this disaster
So looks like each family is getting a whopping £5,500 in compensation:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...e-after-angry-exchanges-in-no-10-live-updates
Correct me if I'm wrong here but that seems disgustingly small for people who have literally lost everything.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...e-after-angry-exchanges-in-no-10-live-updates
Correct me if I'm wrong here but that seems disgustingly small for people who have literally lost everything.
Just remember guys, it's not austerity, it's not being cheap; it's value engineering. Someone value engineered the shit out of that cladding to save a pittance on a multi million pound job. Welcome to the construction industry for the last decade.
I've said it before, might have missed it, but has there been any further talk about the compartmentation/firebreaks etc? In theory the entire external cladding envelope could be aflame but if the internal compartmentation functioned as it should, each flat should be providing a minimum of, say, 60minutes fire resistance. The entire place should never have gone up like it did, even if the fire marched right up the elevation and got in through open windows etc, it should have been contained within the affected flats for at least an hour, allowing people to escape.
Sounds like years worth of neglect, maintenance issues, possibly poor workmanship, and now this flammable cladding.
I've said it before, might have missed it, but has there been any further talk about the compartmentation/firebreaks etc? In theory the entire external cladding envelope could be aflame but if the internal compartmentation functioned as it should, each flat should be providing a minimum of, say, 60minutes fire resistance. The entire place should never have gone up like it did, even if the fire marched right up the elevation and got in through open windows etc, it should have been contained within the affected flats for at least an hour, allowing people to escape.
Sounds like years worth of neglect, maintenance issues, possibly poor workmanship, and now this flammable cladding.
Good - and that's just the beginning.
I hope I don't sound like a dick, but that's what insurance is for? or are council/housing association tenants automatically covered.
I don't have any problem with them getting £5,500 right now though.
PackAPunchedMick
Member
Yeah, council tenants still need home insurance. Sucks but it's common knowledge in the UK that your goods are not covered when renting from the council.
However I'm certain once this investigation has ended the families are in for a huge payout.
JonnyDBrit
Member
Would expect nothing less. Hope this sorts out nonsense like the possibility of being relocated to Preston after this.
Poorer families (like maybe those living in council housing) often choose to forgo insurance in order to purchase luxuries such as food.
Man, that is just so sad to read. Every time I see clips of the tower gradually being consumed by flames I just think about what must have been going thru the minds of the people trapped on the upper floors. They must have known that they had little chance of escaping and were essentially waiting to die. The brief moment of time between the rising flames and their deaths must have been utterly terrifying. Hearing the sirens outside, seeing the smoke and flames, inhaling the acrid smell of stuff burning and knowing you can't escape must have been tremendously difficult to process. Some of them probably even saw the tower's destruction unfold on their phones via social media and news apps - in full knowledge that the flames were coming for them and that they were powerless. I remember having similar thoughts when I was watching 9/11 unfold on TV. It's a truly terrifying thing to experience.
Once the fire got in the single staircase it was over. Still cannot get over that.
But also you know that fire rating only exists until the tenets move in.
Jeff Albertson
Member
Just confirmed that 79 missing presumed dead now but again the number may rise
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
"About 42 bodies" sounds awfully specific. I wouldn't take it for granted, first it's just an "I heard from a friend" story, second: The death toll for the first days was 17. It would've been at least 42 if that story were true. And then they go on to say "We know 42 families in that building that are missing". Seems like a magic number. And "They're hiding something, they don't want you to know". Come on, just some attention seeking pricks. As if every police officer out there has an agenda to keep the real numbers lower than they are.
Housing association / tenant management organisation may be expected to rehouse people in alternate accommodation in an isolated situation.
If the tenants had contents insurance it may be asked to make a contribution towards the cost of alternate accommodation during this time, but given the circumstances this is difficult to compare to what's happened at the tower given the number of people affected and the wider circumstances.
In an isolated situation, yes if you were renting somewhere and your home was affected by a fire or similar you may go through your insurance or go through your landlord for temporary accommodation, likewise both parties may be responsible for contribution towards the cost of accommodation, but I wouldn't want to say that should be expected to happen here.
I would have hoped the council would have been providing assistance like the £5500 lump sum very shortly after the event, I honestly think the level of support they've given is scandalous, particularly given that other councils and organisations have had to intervene.
re: the fire happening in the middle of the night
It's currently Ramadan, so a lot of people were awake to eat the pre-dawn meal and woke up their neighbours to get out.
The BBC mentioned it earlier on their live feed, and said that the death toll would've been even higher if it wasn't for that.
It's currently Ramadan, so a lot of people were awake to eat the pre-dawn meal and woke up their neighbours to get out.
The BBC mentioned it earlier on their live feed, and said that the death toll would've been even higher if it wasn't for that.
Miles Quaritch
Member
There are a few videos circulating where people who were told to get out/rescued were saying the same thing.
Interesting side story to the tragedy.
JonnyDBrit
Member
So tonight's Panorama program will be about the fire.
Has this video of the first firemen driving to the scene been posted? Just listening to their reactions, says it all - "Fucking hell, how is that even possible?", "that's not a block with people in it is it?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPnRT15LN0o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPnRT15LN0o
JonnyDBrit
Member
That's not of the 'first' firemen, but it's footage from crews driving towards it. You can just hear the utter disbelief in their voices.
JonnyDBrit
Member
It's one of those things that's likely difficult to describe on the radio - or otherwise, to sell the sheer enormity of it. Like, you'd think maybe five floors if it were anything significant - hell, ten floors would be pretty damn bad.
But twenty fucking floors ablaze? That's just impossible to think of beforehand.
JonnyDBrit
Member
Double posting, but the Panorama report has started.
Edit:
So, apparently firefighters were actually able to put out the fire in the initial flat while it was still early. But thanks to the cladding, it wasn't really contained as it should have been.
The Fire and Safety Group were complaining about this up to two months ago. They felt that the urgency of threat to life wasn't considered.
In the end, mostly a summation of news through the week, though it clearly deems both the council and the government to be at fault. Luka and the old lady made me cry.
Edit:
So, apparently firefighters were actually able to put out the fire in the initial flat while it was still early. But thanks to the cladding, it wasn't really contained as it should have been.
The Fire and Safety Group were complaining about this up to two months ago. They felt that the urgency of threat to life wasn't considered.
In the end, mostly a summation of news through the week, though it clearly deems both the council and the government to be at fault. Luka and the old lady made me cry.
SlipperyFishes
Banned
Four ministers were warned about tower block fire risks via BBC
Key excerpts
This shit is inexcusable and that Liberal Democrat (and his Conversative counterparts) should all face jail time.
Key excerpts
This shit is inexcusable and that Liberal Democrat (and his Conversative counterparts) should all face jail time.
Hierophant
Banned
Imagine being the people who have to count the bodies on each floor, I could not even begin to have such strength
All those bastards need to be prosecuted. Right now.
jm89
Member
Nobody will be prosecuted just a little bit of condemning until everybody forgets about it in a month or two.
I really do hope that they right to the top in this but I don't believe they will.
The government will blame everyone but themselves, but maybe just maybe the PCS and HSE have the balls to go after them.
At the end of the day this was all about Money and not paying for the upgrades or remidial work required.
To flat out ignore and try and justify going against the amount of evidence presented, hope they are charged with manslaughter and go away for a very longtime.
The government will blame everyone but themselves, but maybe just maybe the PCS and HSE have the balls to go after them.
At the end of the day this was all about Money and not paying for the upgrades or remidial work required.
To flat out ignore and try and justify going against the amount of evidence presented, hope they are charged with manslaughter and go away for a very longtime.
Then go out and protest so that they don't forget about it. Maybe it'll work, maybe it won't, but sitting around and wringing your hands achieves nothing.
People've already said stuff like "young people won't vote in elections" and "people will forget about this fire in a few days", yet look where we are.
Is this online at all?
yup. Did any politicians get prosecuted for the MP expenses scandal or the financial crisis? Probably not. Given it a month or two and let it blow over is what they'll probably say.
Should be on BBC iPlayer by now.
thelatestmodel
Junior, please.
Ooooh, that's just insulting. A paltry sum.
Those people lost everything and will likely need counselling / support for the rest of their lives.
Will watch this later, thanks!
Don't know if this has been posted. From one of the firefighters in one of the crews.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/grenfell-tower-fire-fighter-what-it-was-like-a7798766.html
Harrowing, having to make decisions like that, and to try and have the clarity of thought to make the right one.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/grenfell-tower-fire-fighter-what-it-was-like-a7798766.html
Harrowing, having to make decisions like that, and to try and have the clarity of thought to make the right one.
Similar threads
- Locked