prag16
Banned
Games like Pikmin 3 show they haven't completely abandoned those conventions.
I'd also say to some extent SM3DW or even NSMB at least to the effect that a child would have an EXTREMELY hard time 100%'ing those games.
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Mature Nintendo first party titles
- Thread starter cpp_is_king
- Start date
Games like Pikmin 3 show they haven't completely abandoned those conventions.
I'd also say to some extent SM3DW or even NSMB at least to the effect that a child would have an EXTREMELY hard time 100%'ing those games.
Zomba13
Member
But what would a darker, scarier, eviler or more realistic Mario game gain over the traditional bright, family friendly and colourful games?
Zelda has gone to darker, scarier places before. TP was pretty gritty/realistic for a Zelda game and MM was the darkest entry. Even OoT had some dark moments with the ruined castle town and the well/shadow temple/fucking creepy ass forest temple (dat music and dem wall masters man...).
Metroid is pretty dark too with plenty of pew pew and violence and blood (albiet alien creature blood).
Fire Emblem could also be seen as a more mature game as it's plots usually are more political and adult than most Nintendo games.
Really though Nintendo doesn't need to make it's franchises mature or make mature franchises. If it fits the game they will darken things up (like MM) but more often than not they can get away fine with building a game mostly for everyone.
JordanN
Banned
I recognized this problem before and basically moved onto Sony/Microsoft for my needs. No point begging Nintendo when there are two other companies who can listen.
I still pick up the Nintendo games that interest me but it's an annoying roadblock.
Also, with the ongoing Pixar comparison, one problem I have is Pixar isn't responsible for all theater production. Nintendo sells consoles like everyone else so they should be held to a higher standard with what appears on it (unless they were a third party which we all know how everyone hates that).
I still pick up the Nintendo games that interest me but it's an annoying roadblock.
Also, with the ongoing Pixar comparison, one problem I have is Pixar isn't responsible for all theater production. Nintendo sells consoles like everyone else so they should be held to a higher standard with what appears on it (unless they were a third party which we all know how everyone hates that).
This is becoming a trend:
"Why won't Ninty make ____ games?"
-They already did, you are just ignoring these titles *long list*
"No, that doesn't count because reasons"
--
That said, Nintendo already does mature (not R-18) games. It is just that the non-mature games are more popular than those.
"Why won't Ninty make ____ games?"
-They already did, you are just ignoring these titles *long list*
"No, that doesn't count because reasons"
--
That said, Nintendo already does mature (not R-18) games. It is just that the non-mature games are more popular than those.
Nintendo should totally revive the IP with a color palette similar to the SNES game.
DragonSworne
Banned
Sorry, but the definition of first party, third party, and second party as traditionally been in relationship to the owner ship of the company doing the development. It has nothing to do with publishing rights, IP ownership, etc.
They're few and far between. And I mean, I think it's disingenuous to, if somebody says "Nintendo needs to have a great FPS IP!", reply with "They made Goldeneye and Perfect Dark! NEXT."
cpp_is_king
Member
Depends what you mean by 'everyone'. Because 'everyone' is definitely not buying Wii U's. Nintendo uses software to sell hardware, but their software is losing its appeal to many (including myself). I'm not entitled in the sense that I think they need to make something for me because I want it, but rather I just wonder if them adapting and diversifying their creative portfolio to include some more mature games might end up being better for themselves in the long term.
A business's success is measured not only by how many customers they currently have, but also but how quickly they can grow their customer base. There's no doubt that they have a decent sized customer base for 3DS. But their Wii U customer base is definitely not there, and the rate at which it's growing causes worry.
I think there's a distinct possibility that the world is "outgrowing" Nintendo games.
And Metroid Prime doesn't count because reasons.
They probably don't make a lot of them or make them a series because they usually sell like crap.
On FPS's: how did The Conduit do?
By mature Nintendo titles I'm pretty sure people are not saying to make them like mainstream games (like the often-feared "Grand Theft Mario" which makes no sense). Just dark, serious and/or twisted themes. Majora's Mask and Fire Emblem Awakening do "Nintendo mature" well, and I love both.
Ideally I'd love to see a 3D "T Rated" platformer in the style of Psychonauts by Nintendo. Serious themes mixed with humor in a twisted setting. It would have the quality gameplay they're known for but meant more for teens and up.
Ideally I'd love to see a 3D "T Rated" platformer in the style of Psychonauts by Nintendo. Serious themes mixed with humor in a twisted setting. It would have the quality gameplay they're known for but meant more for teens and up.
Little Green Yoda
Member
Has the GAF thread with "mature/realistic" Mario concept art been linked here yet?
There's nothing mature about Jrpgs and anime games, I know because I play them. They're similar to Nintendo's teen+ targeted franchises such as Zelda, Fire Emblem, Xenoblade, X, F-Zero, Kid Icarus, Metroid etc. Nintendo will never make a game solely targeted at adults, they're just not that type of company.
Nintendo however do not make games solely targeted at children either, all their 3+ games are intended for the mass demographic as evident by the increased difficulty of the secret levels in their games aimed solely at people who play the game through till the end (avid gamer). The only problem I have with this is that the easy difficulty through the first 70% of the game can make the experience a little boring and even make some gamers give up half way. Nintendo can easily rectify this problem by including a hard difficulty option at the start of the game.
Nintendo however do not make games solely targeted at children either, all their 3+ games are intended for the mass demographic as evident by the increased difficulty of the secret levels in their games aimed solely at people who play the game through till the end (avid gamer). The only problem I have with this is that the easy difficulty through the first 70% of the game can make the experience a little boring and even make some gamers give up half way. Nintendo can easily rectify this problem by including a hard difficulty option at the start of the game.
I mostly agree with the sentiment that Nintendo needs more "serious-themed" IPs, but your idea of a PG-13 Mario is not the solution to the problem. It's like a label asking Phil Collins to make a rap record in the mid-00s because the world has supposedly moved on from whatever his genre is.
Also, the Wii U is Nintendo's most flawed console yet. You could put all the Mario's Gritty Tits N' Ass Lands you want on the system and it still wouldn't compete with the PSBone because there are simply too many things wrong with the hardware and the sales proposition. Most of the IPs you criticize for being childish are doing very well on 3DS and broke records on the Wii. It's true that software sells hardware, but poorly marketed, unappealing hardware can also drag quality software down with it.
Freezie KO
Banned
I'm all for Nintendo diversifying their portfolio. Of course, new IP would greatly help there, and hopefully they take a serious consideration of franchise fatigue.
Buying, employing, and/or actually endowing Western studios with power would also go a long way. It's one thing to contract Next Level Games or to buy Retro, but if Nintendo is just going to have them make Nintendo B-tier franchises (as great as Luigi's Mansion is), then it's not going to expand the audience.
Also, some of their existing franchises could actually fit more "mature" storytelling or just a darker or more contemplative mood/tone. Fire Emblem and Advance Wars immediately come to mind as their storytelling is fairly divorced from the gameplay. They could genuinely tell more mature stories just by crafting three-dimensional characters and conflicts, eschewing clichés, and treating war/battle with realism and consequences. In fact, this genuine maturity might stand in nice contrast to the war-fervor of other huge Western titles.
But those are two that I would personally like to see. Video games, in general, have a long way to go vis-à-vis narrative, but even in terms of tone, Metroid and Zelda could still deliver a less fantastical storybook feeling and instill more of a sense of anxiety.
Ultimately, how a game comes off is less about the franchise itself. It's all in the execution. Sure, you may see cartoons as "kiddy", but even Sci-Fi and fantasy are still low-art genres. It's not like you're going to get an existentialist chamber drama in a video game. But even within these genres, the execution can elevate the material.
Of course, this is just ironic. Racing is kiddy, but JRPGs and anime are not?
Buying, employing, and/or actually endowing Western studios with power would also go a long way. It's one thing to contract Next Level Games or to buy Retro, but if Nintendo is just going to have them make Nintendo B-tier franchises (as great as Luigi's Mansion is), then it's not going to expand the audience.
Also, some of their existing franchises could actually fit more "mature" storytelling or just a darker or more contemplative mood/tone. Fire Emblem and Advance Wars immediately come to mind as their storytelling is fairly divorced from the gameplay. They could genuinely tell more mature stories just by crafting three-dimensional characters and conflicts, eschewing clichés, and treating war/battle with realism and consequences. In fact, this genuine maturity might stand in nice contrast to the war-fervor of other huge Western titles.
But those are two that I would personally like to see. Video games, in general, have a long way to go vis-à-vis narrative, but even in terms of tone, Metroid and Zelda could still deliver a less fantastical storybook feeling and instill more of a sense of anxiety.
Ultimately, how a game comes off is less about the franchise itself. It's all in the execution. Sure, you may see cartoons as "kiddy", but even Sci-Fi and fantasy are still low-art genres. It's not like you're going to get an existentialist chamber drama in a video game. But even within these genres, the execution can elevate the material.
Of course, this is just ironic. Racing is kiddy, but JRPGs and anime are not?
I do agree Nintendo needs to branch out of the E for everyone games although I love them. I'm 33 years old I was 5 years old when I got my NES in 1985 and Istill love gaming and Nintendo. The average age of a gamer is what 35? So that means those gamers that grew up with Nintendo gaming on the NES and SNES are grown up. I wouldn't mind seeing Nintendo take chances and make a mature game like Metroid or something. My biggest problem with Nintendo is they have the biggest catalog of game franchises that people really love and they don't do anything with them outside of Mario and Donkey Kong. Franchises like F-Zero, Punch-Out, and Star Fox on Wii U would push me Into buying one. Would love to see them go in another direction with Donkey Kong and make a game like Donkey Kong 64 in 1080p on the Wii U. Kid Icarus is another beloved franchise and a proper Kid Icarus on Wii U would be awesome. I just hate Nintendo sits on franchises that a lot of us grow up with and they haven't had proper new games on Nintendo consoles. I know they've made Star Fox, kid Icarus and others on the 3DS, but it would really help the Wii U if Nintendo would an announce console versions of these games. Gamers like me that have grown up on Nintendo would love it and they can reintroduce them to new and younger gamers that didn't play them back in the day...
cpp_is_king
Member
For the most part, that's correct, yes. Although you're mincing my words a bit, and I think my position is more accurately stated as "most JRPGs and animes are not G-rated"
So you want them to make the same games as the rest of the industry? Why does no one ever want the rest of the industry to make games like Nintendo's? It's pretty obvious which one is significantly more common.
Freezie KO
Banned
I've seen G-rated films that I would describe as more mature than other R-rated films.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
Here ya go.
This describes Nintendo's approach to maturity so perfectly
The maturity is hidden in the gameplay
Not only is it in the execution, but also in the player's actions, when they discover it in themselves and have to think about the consequences.
Having to leave a Pikmin behind because of strategy, selfishness or forgetfulness will make you reflect more on yourself then any other game because you are given full responsibility over the lives that are in your control. Most games give you a false sense of this, but since the individual pikmin aren't a major character that is written to survive or die later in the story, it is all on you and your conscience on how you feel about sacrificing one to reach the next level.
Still, it is a Ninty game so it's going to be light hearted, fun, and little more subtle about their mature themes and you can easily dismiss it because there are a huge number of "replacement" Pikmin, but that kind of thinking is on you and your own conscience or maturity level and what you want to take out of the game. As something to pass the time, or something to think about on a deeper level that is fun to discuss.
Now not all Ninty games are exactly like this...
Mario for instances gives you a choice "if you are ready to be a man or not" and tackle the harder difficulties with calm, cool, zen like demeanor instead of a nervous panicky mess one usually resorts to when they are seconds away from falling to their death. Mario. when challenging. asks you to stop shaking and control oneself to perfect the run(and jump) thru the level to reach the hard earned (yet very rewarding) feeling of accomplishment.
With Nintendo games it's usually you discovering things about yourself as opposed to the games story trying to tell you a mature story or setting.
But when it does decide to hit you over the head with something above an E for everyone, it hits you straight thru the brain, because they hid it in a cartoony/kid friendly type package.
PixyJunket
Member
At least it's (sort of) amusing to see the mental gymnastics people will go through to stick to their agendas.
I'll name a few games (or a dozen) whenever somebody pulls the "Nintendo doesn't make new IPs" line, here are some of my favorite excuses.
"That's just an eShop game."
This one is delightfully ignorant. A video game is a video game. Besides, NOT ONE PERSON here would tag that against Journey.
"You know I really meant Nintendo EAD."
I did? I didn't know I had clairvoyance, maybe I should play the lottery. Again, nobody here would say that for, oh, Uncharted.
"Nintendo didn't released that in (insert region)." / "Nintendo didn't localize that."
But I thought your problem was that Nintendo didn't create new IPs, not that they didn't localize new IPs.
"That wasn't front and center."
This is a new one from today. I couldn't possibly begin to decipher what that's supposed to mean.
"That isn't an AAA Game."
What the hell is an "AAA Game?" And it's a new IP, despite how many magical As you think it has.
I really could go on and one with these, it's really quite fascinating.
Pixar movies are fantastic, great for adults and children. However, I don't want to watch only Pixar movies. Nintendo's output seems to be "Pixar" only, while ignoring the content of the other Disney owned studios. Nintendo breaks away from the cutesy with Metroid somewhat, and that remains my favorite of their franchises.
decoyplatypus
Member
You really need to get NSMBU and play challenge mode.
terrisus
Member
So, you want an "M-Rated Game," not a "Mature Game" then.
Since, those things are not really all that "Mature."
And definitely not "Mature" in the way that most video games handle them.
You seriously believe that "because that just isn't the type of thing that children would care about or understand," that the rating would be elevated?
bishopcruz
Member
So it did, add it to the list of games that proves that NoA is run by a pack of rabid howler monkeys. Seriously.
How do you make Legend of Zelda more mature though? By letting David Cage get his mitts on the IP?
Badly animated Link and ----- sex scene incoming!
Still responses like this. Sigh.
In theory you could just do a more intricate story in the game with actual shades of grey. Hell make Ganon a character not just a bad guy you interact with in a fight. Zelda stories tend toward the bland in the best of cases.
The thing is, if Nintendo doesn't seem to care or have faith in these IPs, why should we? The games exist, but most times they aren't advertised, are released outside of Japan as afterthoughts, if we're lucky, and we hear about them pretty much never. W101 should have been marketed during shows like Adventure Time, but it got a Nintendo Direct and that's about it.
gamergirly
Member
Even the hardest of Nintendo fans should be able to recognize the deficit that is left with an almost non-existent range of Teen or Mature titles. Most of us who are long term players love playing Mario but huddle around franchises like Metroid and Zelda. We have stuff like Zombi U and Wonderful 101 so its not like there's nothing. However, Nintendo just isnt going to be Sony or Microsoft who in some ways are the complete opposite with tons of gore, violence, boobs, and profanity but lack of morality and charm. For these reasons, Im a multiplatform owner having a Nintendo Wii U and a PS4. You can be proactive as a consumer and enable the range of titles you have access to instead of bitching in every thread about manufacturers.
Theres a real distinct difference in the Nintendo audience where Nintendo is trying to get young children and casual players into their games but not lose the respect and attention of older players. Its taking a while but looking at the direction of Hyrule Warriors Im optimistic about the future of their titles. Theres going to be more for us older gamers but I stress that Nintendo will never be Sony or Microsoft......
Theres a real distinct difference in the Nintendo audience where Nintendo is trying to get young children and casual players into their games but not lose the respect and attention of older players. Its taking a while but looking at the direction of Hyrule Warriors Im optimistic about the future of their titles. Theres going to be more for us older gamers but I stress that Nintendo will never be Sony or Microsoft......
Oh god, I can't imagine how horrible that would be.
Why does Nintendo have to cater to those tastes? Do we ask Infinity Ward to do "kiddy" games? No, they have their own kind of game that we make. Why is it only Nintendo that gets this criticism?
Come on. Seriously?
This is what people are looking for: A technically impressive game for their console developed by one of their top teams with a large budget and marketed as a premiere title for Nintendo that is a new IP with a narrative (basically not Nintendo Land).
cpp_is_king
Member
Because Infinity Ward doesn't control 80% of the content that gets released on a single console? Just saying...
PixyJunket
Member
Eternal Darkness.
Giest.
Xenoblade Chronicles.
The Last Story.
Pandora's Tower.
The Wonderful 101.
"X".
Like the hat?
Banned
Mature games in addition to their current stuff I am 100% in favor of
Mature games in place of their current stuff I am 100% against
Mature games in place of their current stuff I am 100% against
Ok ! It is First party !
Can't get more mature than Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment, so my vote goes to ...
http://www.100classicbooks.com/index.html
Can't get more mature than Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment, so my vote goes to ...
http://www.100classicbooks.com/index.html
Freezie KO
Banned
Because Nintendo has to support an entire platform and software ecosystem. Infinity Ward doesn't.
You can get away with a very narrow portfolio if you're not asking people to buy hardware just to play your games.
I remember when Nintendo was trying to create games targeting the west, until Iwata shat on that.
Ok ! It is First party !
Can't get more mature than Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment, so my vote goes to ...
http://www.100classicbooks.com/index.html
Touche!
PlumCantaloupe
Member
Eternal Darkness
PixyJunket
Member
Ladies and Gentleman, may I present to you: The Asterisk Parade.
"Described as an experience."
You can't make this stuff up.
Then don't buy a Nintendo console? It's not like this is a huge surprise to anyone...
It'd be nice if they experimented more outside of cheery cartoon games. They don't need to be gory but dark fantasies like Folklore, Dark Souls, and Gravity Rush would be a good addition and not completely out of place with Nintendo's current games. But they did what they did to fire emblem and that gives me no hope.
I think a lot of people are not buying a Nintendo console. Nintendo must be A-OK with that.
3DS sales show that the problem isn't "mature" games but something else, if you're referring to WiiU sales.
Freezie KO
Banned
You asked why Nintendo gets called out for lack of diversity. We told you. It's because they have to support their own platform.
If your answer is "then don't buy Nintendo hardware", well... that's what's happening in the larger marketplace. And I can assure you that it's not the position Nintendo wants to be in.
Oh, why did they bother with the Wii U when they have the 3DS? I mean, its the same market with the same demands and everything.
How about this instead: provides a narrative. I'm just excluding games such as Nintendo Land.
You joke that it's an Asterisk Parade, but Nintendo hasn't met any of those "requirements" while their competitor's internal studios have many times. Pikmin and Metroid Prime are the last two titles that meet those standards. Xenoblade would have, if Nintendo had brought it over quickly and marketed it.
grandjedi6
Master of the Google Search
What is this, the gamecube era? Where we want M-rated games just for the sake of having m-rated games?
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