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[Visualante]

As far as I know Maya is the industry standard for games (but not necessarily all 3D)

Is this true and is learning 3D Studio Max pointless for games art?

 

[nofi]

As far as I know Maya is the industry standard for games (but not necessarily all 3D)

Is this true and is learning 3D Studio Max pointless for games art?

All I want to know is how to turn this into CONSOLE WARZ.

Spoiler

There's plenty of adverts (see Edge) for 3Ds Max artists.

 

[sky]

As far as I know Maya is the industry standard for games (but not necessarily all 3D)

Is this true and is learning 3D Studio Max pointless for games art?

3ds Max and Maya are both used extensively. I don't actually know which is more popular (but I would have guessed Max for in-game assets, and Maya for cinematics). So no, learning it certainly isn't a idea.

 

[140.85]

Screw 'em both! XSI 4 life bay-beeee.

 

[lilltias]

Modo is gaining some ground too.

 

[Gazunta]

It really depends on the team and the project's requirements. Both are good. We used one on Party Animals but other teams use the other one. I can't see one completely becoming the 'standard' anytime soon.

(I'm not an artist so I can't say 100% for sure which one is which.)

Learning one will teach you enough to at least get started on the other, apparently. It's more important to get your skills up than to learn all the l33t Max hacks or whatever. All that stuff comes second to demonstrated talent.

I mean to me it's like asking which is better, Word or WordPerfect. Just use one and become a good writer and you can worry about shortcut keys and crap later.

(God, I miss WordPerfect)

 

[Diablohead]

I am totaly confused about the standards, last year our 3D teachers were saying 3DSM was standard but I always hear different from others where I go.

I supose tho if I learn 3DSM like I am doing right now I can use anything since its all much more user friendly then max.

*edit* Gazunta awnsered that for me.

 

[MasterMFauli]

All I want to know is how to turn this into CONSOLE WARZ.]

Let´s collect data of which games have been created with wich program and the war can begin

 

[NotWii]

There is no standard, Maya and 3DS are equally used in the game industry.
3DS is easier to model with.
Maya is better for animation and is also used for film.
Learning either is fine, you'll be able to apply the same skills to another package in ~30mins.

XSI SoftImage is getting very popular, especially with Japanese developers.
Examples being: Resident Evil 4, Dead Rising, Lost Planet, Metal Gear Solid 3, F-Zero GX and more!

 

[nofi]

Let´s collect data of which games have been created with wich program and the war can begin

No need.

 

[arnaldo42]

It really depends. Most Sony developers use Maya while a lot of PC devs use 3D Max. The ones that I know:

Bungie: 3ds max for modeling, Maya for animation.

Sony: Maya

BioWare: 3ds max.

Valve: XSI

Ubisoft: XSI

id: ZBrush, Mudbox, Maya, 3ds max...everything.

That's out of the top of my head. I'm sure a most studios use more than one package though.

 

[Rimshot]

Instead of grumbling over what set of tools you should use start working with one set of tools to get your skill up.
Not skill up with the tools but as an artist. It isn't hard to go from max to maya. Just takes a little time to get used to the layout and so. But you wont be a better artist by using one set of tools over the other.

Edit: And in Sweden the standard in gamedev seems to be 3D max. And since they are both owned by the same company the both resembles each other more and more in each new version. If you wanna go different, go SoftImage.

 

[Buttonbasher]

I like 3D studio max better.

 

[i hate bees]

They've got different strengths and weaknesses, try them both and pick which makes most sense to you, they're both used enough so as neither would be a waste of time learning.

Max has superior poly modelling tools, I prefer the workflow and the modifier heirachy makes a lot more sense to me than Mayas history, I find UVW unwrapping easier in Max too after the addition of pelt mapping.

Maya is insurmountably better for NURBS modelling, it also has superior rigging and animation tools.

There's a lot of tutorials out there which are done for Max and Maya seperately, I'd recommend trying a few of them in both applications and seeing which you feel most comfertable with and which you obtain the best results with.

XSI is good too, I've not really used it much but it was very comfertable and if Valve and the Metal Gear Solid developers rate it then you know it's gotta be good!

 

[SovanJedi]

I flick between the use of 3D Studio MAX and Maya for games. Personally I prefer Maya because I am a self-declared animation buff and Maya has much better tools for that sort of thing. However 3D Studio MAX is easier to use at first.

SoftImage used to be big in the past (I know Nintendo used it from the N64 era onwards for their games, although at some point they must have switched over to Maya since they revealed it was the key art package used to make Wind Waker.)

Both are now owned by the same company so they are gradually turning into one and the same. At least that brings much better cross-platform support between the two. Phew!

 

[CaVaYeRo]

Let´s collect data of which games have been created with wich program and the war can begin

or just search for whic program does nintendo use

 

[Rimshot]

Those that say that maya has better animation tools...

Why not use Autodesk Motionbuilder in both the cases of using 3Dmax or Maya? It's pretty much the best animation tool out there and since autodesk owns both max and maya they make sure you can export from both toolsets to motionbuilder.

I say take the one with the layout/cust. you find most fitting to you. You wont be behind in anything just because you like one of their products more then the other.

 

[Littleberu]

Those that say that maya has better animation tools...

Why not use Autodesk Motionbuilder in both the cases of using 3Dmax or Maya? It's pretty much the best animation tool out there and since autodesk owns both max and maya they make sure you can export from both toolsets to motionbuilder.

I say take the one with the layout/cust. you find most fitting to you. You wont be behind in anything just because you like one of their products more then the other.

Because you don't "need" Motionbuilder.

Maya is simply standardized because they got lucky, and people learned it and it was taught in companies.

Really, you don't need any tools to animate beside the graph editor and some kind of GUI, and some animators don't even need them that much.

 

[i hate bees]

Motion Builder has some really nice features, I love the way IK chains work in it and for cleaning Optical motion capture data it's a life saver - but it's just more cost and more training, Maya is just as good for the animating in most circumstances - Motion Builder makes scene management and previewing a bit quicker.

 

[The Bookerman]

Ubisoft montreal: 3dSMax and Zbrush.

Changed for truth.

 

[jmdajr]

never heard of xsi

 

[No.1]

There is no standard, Maya and 3DS are equally used in the game industry.
3DS is easier to model with.
Maya is better for animation and is also used for film.
Learning either is fine, you'll be able to apply the same skills to another package in ~30mins.

Correct answer.

Both have different purposes now in the industry, and benefits for different situations. Besides, both programs are now owned by the same company so they aren't going to release two identical programs.

If you're trying to learn the ropes of a program, then there's no wrong or right answer between the two. Learning one and then being put into a position where you have to learn the other isn't particularly difficult; the fundamentals are still the same and the layout isn't THAT different.

Changed for truth.

Not sure if this is a joke post... but... Ubisoft montreal actually primary used a lot of Maya, especially on Army of Two.

 

[Erwin EHV NL]

3ds Max is indeed better for modeling, Maya is way better for animation..

SoftImage?! don't really like that one (workflow) but they say it's really usefull when you know how to use it...

imo SoftImage is less logic than 3Ds

 

[Rimshot]

Because you don't "need" Motionbuilder.

Maya is simply standardized because they got lucky, and people learned it and it was taught in companies.

Really, you don't need any tools to animate beside the graph editor and some kind of GUI, and some animators don't even need them that much.

As you can see from "i hate bees" post motionbuilder has its advantages. It would be a pretty failure if it didn't since it's whole purpose is animation.

Anyways. The reason I brought that app up is if the OP chooses to go with say 3Dmax instead of Maya, you dont really have to suffer in the animation department.

 

[theBishop]

Zbrush is probably going to surge in popularity through its incredible normal map generation.

Personally, I like to use Free, open source software. Blender FTW!

 

[Danielsan]

It really depends. Most Sony developers use Maya while a lot of PC devs use 3D Max. The ones that I know:

Bungie: 3ds max for modeling, Maya for animation.

Sony: Maya

BioWare: 3ds max.

Valve: XSI

Ubisoft: XSI

id: ZBrush, Mudbox, Maya, 3ds max...everything.

That's out of the top of my head. I'm sure a most studios use more than one package though.

Epic : Maya

 

[The Bookerman]

Correct answer.

Both have different purposes now in the industry, and benefits for different situations. Besides, both programs are now owned by the same company so they aren't going to release two identical programs.

If you're trying to learn the ropes of a program, then there's no wrong or right answer between the two. Learning one and then being put into a position where you have to learn the other isn't particularly difficult; the fundamentals are still the same and the layout isn't THAT different.



Not sure if this is a joke post... but... Ubisoft montreal actually primary used a lot of Maya, especially on Army of Two.

army of two is EA montreal.

Not a joke.

 

[sprocket]

Actually they both are pretty much the same. Same tools .. same uv map editing.. They export to the same file types.

3dsmax does come with character studio which is a huge plus.

but to answer your question I actually think most devs use 3dsmax more than maya.

 

[i hate bees]

Zbrush is probably going to surge in popularity through its incredible normal map generation.

Personally, I like to use Free, open source software. Blender FTW!

I think Mudbox stands a good chance of giving Zbrush a run for its money, especially now Autodesk owns it. Mudbox works like a 3d app, almost feels like Maya - Zbrush can be a real pain in the ass with its '2.5d' canvas.

 

[No.1]

army of two is EA montreal.

Not a joke.

Yeah, I just noticed Shut up...

 

[Dali]

Screw 'em both! Lightwave 4 life bay-beeee.

fixed

It really depends. Most Sony developers use Maya while a lot of PC devs use 3D Max. The ones that I know:

Bungie: 3ds max for modeling, Maya for animation.

Sony: Maya

BioWare: 3ds max.

Valve: XSI

Ubisoft: XSI

id: ZBrush, Mudbox, Maya, 3ds max...everything.

That's out of the top of my head. I'm sure a most studios use more than one package though.

I think Konami and Capcom use XSI too.

 

[Martial Loh]

xsi/softimage has some very nice layered animation features, which Maya once tried to copy (trax editor oh noes!)
I think since Autodesk acquired Alias(the former devs of Maya), Maya has been gaining lots of modelling tools from Max.

Oh yeah, Sega used XSI on VF5.

I'd say learn whatever you can get your hands on the easiest. Principals of modelling, texturing & animation can be applied across the board. The smaller tools like modo/zbrush/mudbox are great, but I think they work best as part of a larger toolset - ie in conjunction with one of the "big 3".

 

[LutherT17]

Team17 uses Maya.

Your best bet is to take all the time that you would spend learning to use any software and use it to practice drawing stuff with a pencil instead. Being able to draw is 100 times more saleable than being able to normal map a poly.

 

[Nozi]

Maya is the standard for game development. A lot of studios use Max but the number is decreasing. Some studios use Softimage (Valve, Pandemic, Lionhead and so on, I believe)

Some studios (not many) still use Lightwave (Are Criterion still using this?)

Nowadays there are lots of external tools used in conjunction.. different lighting pipelines which are shared over multiple packages, ZBrush, Mudbox, Modo and so on. If you're using a 3rd party engine, the 3d package used to model and texture assets isn't that important as shader creation and lighting is done within the engine.

Learning any of the big 3 (Max, Maya or XSI) would put you in a good position. Once you've learned the fundamentals in one of those, it isn't hard to adjust to another package.

 

[Symytry]

This thread is hilarious.

In most cases, dev teams have licenses to use multiple packages on any given project. Sometimes all modeling is done using one and animation done using another. It can also be up to personal preference of whoever is doing the work since it is extremely easy to go between programs. Maya and Max are perfect examples of this thanks to the fbx exporter.

It doesn't matter which you use. In the end, it's the engine which will determine the final quality/look of your game, not the 3d app you are using to make the assets with.

Having said all that, I enjoy Maya more than Max although I am profficient with both of them, and XSI as well. And where XSI is concerned, well... LOL. Its an awesome program, and IMO out-does both max and maya put together. But only a handful of dev teams use it.

And the people posting crap like "Capcom uses XSI" have no idea what they are talking about. A company as large as Crapcom has multiple licenses for different products. I'm sure XSI is one of them, but they aren't limited to using just that.

 

[Nozi]

This thread is hilarious.

In most cases, dev teams have licenses to use multiple packages on any given project. Sometimes all modeling is done using one and animation done using another. It can also be up to personal preference of whoever is doing the work since it is extremely easy to go between programs. Maya and Max are perfect examples of this thanks to the fbx exporter.

It doesn't matter which you use. In the end, it's the engine which will determine the final quality/look of your game, not the 3d app you are using to make the assets with.

Having said all that, I enjoy Maya more than Max although I am profficient with both of them, and XSI as well. And where XSI is concerned, well... LOL. Its an awesome program, and IMO out-does both max and maya put together. But only a handful of dev teams use it.

And the people posting crap like "Capcom uses XSI" have no idea what they are talking about. A company as large as Crapcom has multiple licenses for different products. I'm sure XSI is one of them, but they aren't limited to using just that.

True, but most companies do have an 'official' package which they base their tools and plugins on. Most places I have worked have been Max, but nowadays the standard is Maya. We were split between Max/Maya until recently but moved everyone over to Max as our tech dept was more familiar with it.

 

[Ajemsuhgao]

I really think it depends on the company.

I've been using 3ds Max for just over four years now, and just a few months ago I was looking at various game studios to see what they suggest and want from their modelers and animators. A few of them actually wanted both. Maya was mainly for animation, and Max for modeling.

 

[Dali]

This thread is hilarious.

In most cases, dev teams have licenses to use multiple packages on any given project. Sometimes all modeling is done using one and animation done using another. It can also be up to personal preference of whoever is doing the work since it is extremely easy to go between programs. Maya and Max are perfect examples of this thanks to the fbx exporter.

It doesn't matter which you use. In the end, it's the engine which will determine the final quality/look of your game, not the 3d app you are using to make the assets with.

Having said all that, I enjoy Maya more than Max although I am profficient with both of them, and XSI as well. And where XSI is concerned, well... LOL. Its an awesome program, and IMO out-does both max and maya put together. But only a handful of dev teams use it.

And the people posting crap like "Capcom uses XSI" have no idea what they are talking about. A company as large as Crapcom has multiple licenses for different products. I'm sure XSI is one of them, but they aren't limited to using just that.

I think you really need to take some of your technical knowledge and apply it to reading comprehension. I don't think anyone has hinted that what 3D software you use is in any way connected to the quality of one's work. Also stating something like "Capcom uses XSI" is not the same as "Capcom uses only XSI".

 

[Gattsu25]

It really depends on the team and the project's requirements. Both are good. We used one on Party Animals but other teams use the other one. I can't see one completely becoming the 'standard' anytime soon.

(I'm not an artist so I can't say 100% for sure which one is which.)

Learning one will teach you enough to at least get started on the other, apparently. It's more important to get your skills up than to learn all the l33t Max hacks or whatever. All that stuff comes second to demonstrated talent.

I mean to me it's like asking which is better, Word or WordPerfect. Just use one and become a good writer and you can worry about shortcut keys and crap later.

(God, I miss WordPerfect)

So do I...so do I

 

[Warm Machine]

GTA games are built in Max. level editor, characters, animation, etc is all Max.

Skate and the Need for Speed games were also built in Max for their environments. All the stadiums in The Bigs were built in Max as well.

I don't know where this Maya is better at animation thing comes from. Probably from the better f-curves but Character Studio within Max is far superior for work flow reasons. Blending, sharing, changing animations across multiple skeletons is far more flexable than anything Maya has out of the box. Many studios who have a Maya pipeline use Motionbuilder for animation at an additional cost.

Max's big bonus to use (and why it is used in many open world games) is its X-Ref system. Instancing one or more objects from another file is rock solid and there for is great for scattering thousands of objects around a scene that originate from another file. Change the source file of the instanced objects and everything updates. It also has much better object management between files with proper merge and importing on a per object basis instead of an entire file or scene basis. Like Lightwave but more integrated together as opposed to the modeler/layout system.

On the downside many people find the subobject levels to objects while modelling slow but it can be overcome with user created shortcuts/tool bars. The one thing that cannot be overcome though is the legacy material editor. Max doesn't have node based system for creating materials and instead has a far more traditional simple UI. It has its perks but most people would rather prefer a differen't drag and drop and connection editor. If you don't know what you are doing it can lead to material hell in Max. If you do and make it your friend it can be the cleanest system out there.

 

[Fafalada]

We were split between Max/Maya until recently but moved everyone over to Max as our tech dept was more familiar with it.

Ironic part is that if you talk to Autodesk, they very literally try to convince you that you need "both". Of course - they make both, but given the very high amount of overlap between the two (it must be way over 90% of functionality) what they are doing is pretty much daylight robbery.

At any rate, personally I always considered Max to just be really, really bad(for too many reasons to name them all - granted, I view it as a programmer, not artist), so just about anything else is better. The bad thing is that majority of artists (at least where I am) have been learning Max as first choice for the last 6 years, so even though it's the worst choice in what it offers, it's hard not to consider it given the alternatives of retraining large amounts of staff.

 

[flarkminator]

RAD: maya

 

[speedpop]

Blizzard uses 3D Studio Max too don't they?

 

[BeEatNU]

just an FYI....autodesk(3ds max) bought out maya some time ago, so I wouldn't be surprised if you start seeing all there features mixed into 3ds max.

 

[Gattsu25]

RAD: maya

You work for RAD, right?

 

[Fafalada]

so I wouldn't be surprised if you start seeing all there features mixed into 3ds max.

From what I understand their current goal is to reposition one of them (IIRC Maya) for highend, moving it away from games stuff.
But they basically want to sell you both for the time being at least.

 

[Apenheul]

At any rate, personally I always considered Max to just be really, really bad(for too many reasons to name them all - granted, I view it as a programmer, not artist), so just about anything else is better. The bad thing is that majority of artists (at least where I am) have been learning Max as first choice for the last 6 years, so even though it's the worst choice in what it offers, it's hard not to consider it given the alternatives of retraining large amounts of staff.

I fully agree (as a programmer). At the moment we use Max for environments and Maya for characters. I've written exporter plugins for both Max and Maya. In Maya it's very easy to traverse scenes, materials, query vertex / face attributes because of it's nice design and good documentation. From the Max API I get the idea that the codebase wasn't right and some features were sortof 'hacked in'. It's always hard to get your materials looking about the same as they do in 3DS Max because most of it isn't documented and you're only guessing how they use certain maps. A nice new feature for Maya is that you can attach your own renderer, I think the Maya environment can be changed in a decent level editor if there are people on the team with good MEL script knowledge.

 

[loosus]

Anyone use TrueSpace? I thought it was rad back in the day -- not even sure if Caligari is even still in business these days.

I have to be honest, though; I never really understood TrueSpace as I should have. I jumped in, made my models, animated them, and kept playing around, without ever really "getting" it. And what made it worse was that I would fuck up something and be unable to figure out what I did, and I'd eventually restart the whole damn project because a model was screwed up or something. :lol God, I can feel a migraine coming on just thinking of those times.

 

[FlyinJ]

Anyone use TrueSpace? I thought it was rad back in the day -- not even sure if Caligari is even still in business these days.

I have to be honest, though; I never really understood TrueSpace as I should have. I jumped in, made my models, animated them, and kept playing around, without ever really "getting" it. And what made it worse was that I would fuck up something and be unable to figure out what I did, and I'd eventually restart the whole damn project because a model was screwed up or something. :lol God, I can feel a migraine coming on just thinking of those times.

Truspace was a hack job mess. It's just as likely that the program itself munged the model beyond repair through one of it's millions of bugs.

 

[BlingBling!!]

XSI 6 hands Max its ass on a silver platter. Multiple companies are switching over or exploring moving to XSI. Unless they drop the ball it will be Maya and XSI that dominate the games industry.