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[Raide]

I'm not opposed to a purely digital delivery method, it would certainly solve the issue of having to wait a couple extra days for Amazon to deliver to the Netherlands. However, the reason I wait those few days is price. A new game goes for about 35-40 euros on Amazon. I'm not going to start paying the full 60 on Microsoft's service.

And since this would mean that the second hand market is effectively dealt with, prices would have to come down. Time to make good on all the promises of digital distribution.

Otherwise fuck them.

Agreed. I am ok with them going DD but they have to put something in place for BC. Every new console does BC a bit half-hearted or they do a Sony any pretty much force everyone to re-buy it.

If they go DD, the prices need to be cheaper. Hell, mix in Steam and off we go!

 

[DECK'ARD]

What if every console came with a high-capacity flash card, and anyone that wanted to buy a game in-store would take their card to the store and have the game transferred to the card? And, of course, there'd still be DD for the rest of us.

This won't happen, though.

That's actually the most likely scenario from this rumour. The memory card is the workaround for a download only future that isn't quite here yet or available to everyone. The next consoles will have a long life-span, Micosoft have the end-game in sight but need to address the present while getting there.

A little module to plug in, so it's not tiny like an SD card. And you aren't forced to carry your controller around either.

Then either a kiosk, or you just give them the storage module as you pay at the desk and they plug it in while taking payment. Go home, plug it back in, install it, and install file is locked to that console in the process.

 

[Durante]

A DD-only SKU (even if there is a non-DD option) would be really interesting, if only for the fact that it would probably mean day-and-date DD release for all games as on Vita.

Digital only wont be a possibility for another 10 years. Internet in the West is absolutely atrocious. Having lived in both countries, I feel like internet in America is equivalent to what I saw in South Korea 15 years ago.

Please don't lump the whole "West" in with the US in terms of broadband availability and conditions.

 

[GavinGT]

What about those that don't live in the United States, and frequently import there games from Amazon? Because they have no local stores that won't rip them off with almost triple the price?

In any case I think that we aren't ready for full DD. The latest as someone said would be 2021 where it would be viable for everyone.

They don't give a fuck about your ability to import games at cheaper prices.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Flash memory is still pricey.

Doesn't matter if the cards, proprietary or not, are rewritable and the system can also store and install game packages. Most games won't even be on disc next-gen, I'm certain, while all games will be on DD channels...so there's a lot less absolute reason to support a disc format as standard equipment in this scenario which needs a console to be highly usable for five to seven years afterward. By the end of the gen in 2020, we'll be so accustomed to DD as standard that it will be like it was looking back to VHS as it ages and DVD was gaining ground due to instant access, no rewinding, exclusive newer content, etc. It's practically been there for years if you're into PC and mobile.

 

[bigtroyjon]

Sounds problematic.

What if you don't have the controller with you and want to make an "impulse purchase"?
What if you do have it but there is not enough space?
What if you do have it, it has enough free space but the battery is low?
What if it takes longer to download a game than it is to purchase the physical copy at the desk?

It's much more convenient to just enter the store, buy the disc and leave. And I think DD is all about making it more easy to buy stuff, not complicated.

Those are all problems with any kind of DD device.

 

[PrinceOfApathy]

They don't give a fuck about your ability to import games at cheaper prices.

That's not what I'm saying. If people are depending on Kiosks who is to say these Kiosks will be available in someones country. Does gaming only become feasible for the United States, Japan and Europe?

 

[Log4Girlz]

"Pardon me sir, sir...I want to buy Call of Duty 35 for my son. Can you help me?"

"Did you bring the SD card?"

"The what?"

 

[elektrixx]

I don't think it's true, but I want it to be true.

I'm done with discs and cases.

 

[Satchel]

Games on cards would kick ass.

 

[TTP]

That's actually the most likely scenario from this rumour. The memory card is the workaround for a download only future that isn't quite here yet or available to everyone. The next consoles will have a long life-span, Micosoft have the end-game in sight but need to address the present while getting there.

A little module to plug in, so it's not tiny like an SD card. And you aren't forced to carry your controller around either.

Then either a kiosk, or you just give them the storage module as you pay at the desk and they plug it in while taking payment. Go home, plug it back in, install it, and install file is locked to that console in the process.

Aren't we forgetting games are not necessarily purchased by those that own the system they are intended to run on? What if I want to buy a christmas/birthday present to someone. Do I have to ask him for his SD card first?

 

[derFeef]

"Pardon me sir, sir...I want to buy Call of Duty 35 for my son. Can you help me?"

"Did you bring the SD card?"

"The what?"

?
If it really comes to this case (I doubt it), people would know how it works.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Aren't we forgetting games are not necessarily purchased by those that own the system they are intended to run on? What if I want to buy a christmas/birthday present to someone. Do I have to ask him for his SD card first?

"The what?"

 

[GavinGT]

"Pardon me sir, sir...I want to buy Call of Duty 35 for my son. Can you help me?"

"Did you bring the SD card?"

"The what?"

"It just so happens we sell used SD cards here. Would you like a subscription to Game Informer to go with that?"

Aren't we forgetting games are not necessarily purchased by those that own the system they are intended to run on? What if I want to buy a christmas/birthday present to someone. Do I have to ask him for his SD card first?

Gift card.

 

[UberTag]

For some reason I actually sort of buy this... especially if Microsoft plans to enter next gen with an ultra-aggressive entry price (which I expect they will).

Amusing to see the polar opposite reactions on GAF between this and the Steam Box thread.
- Do people actively watch DVD movies on their X360s?
- Did people want to buy games on physical media for their Steam box consoles?

Clearly the elephant in the room is the backwards compatibility one but I think if the next Xbox entered the Xbox at an aggressive price point... and I'm talking $199/$299 here (more with Kinect 2)... while still offering multiple ways to purchase new content at retail via cards (ala Vita) or tablet purchasing with transfer capability... and then offered the X360 back catalog (18 months or older) at crazy cheap pricing for downloads... well, there is potential for some interesting scenarios.

It also ensures the ability to launch a product without all of those nasty problems that befell the last system such as disc scratching, DRE issues, etc.

 

[web01]

Would never but if its DD only especially with the way microsoft prices retail game downloads on xbox live

 

[Monocle]

This sounds ridiculous, but if it's true I'll have serious reservations about picking up the next Xbox. For me, physical media is a must. I like to own what I buy. And yes, backward compatibility is a huge factor in every console purchase I consider. If the newer PS3 models had BC, I would own one by now. To my mind it's an absolutely essential feature.

 

[sTeLioSco]

UPDATE: Microsoft has issued a fuller statement to MCV.

“Xbox 360 has found new ways to extend its lifecycle like introducing the world to controller-free experiences with Kinect and re-inventing the console with a new dashboard and new entertainment content partnerships. We are always thinking about what is next for our platform and how to continue to defy the lifecycle convention. Beyond that we do not comment on rumors or speculation.”

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/exclusive-no-disc-drive-for-next-xbox/092534

 

[bigtroyjon]

Aren't we forgetting games are not necessarily purchased by those that own the system they are intended to run on? What if I want to buy a christmas/birthday present to someone. Do I have to ask him for his SD card first?

How do you buy someone a gift who wants music and only listens to it on their Ipod?

 

[TTP]

Those are all problems with any kind of DD device.

Exactly.

How do you buy someone a gift who wants music and only listens to it on their Ipod?

Not by bringing his iPod with you at a store, for sure.

 

[DECK'ARD]

All these points are missing the point.

The memory card is the stop-gap, Microsoft along with everyone else want you to be able to buy anything, at anytime, from your home, through them. Convenience is very lucrative, as has already been proven.

That is what they are concerned about, that's what Xbox was always about, and a new console that is going to be around for years has this in mind. Keeping retail and people not yet able to do that at home happy is just the short-term inconvenience.

 

[GavinGT]

UPDATE: Microsoft has issued a fuller statement to MCV.

“Xbox 360 has found new ways to extend its lifecycle like introducing the world to controller-free experiences with Kinect and re-inventing the console with a new dashboard and new entertainment content partnerships. We are always thinking about what is next for our platform and how to continue to defy the lifecycle convention. Beyond that we do not comment on rumors or speculation.”

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/exclusive-no-disc-drive-for-next-xbox/092534

WTF? Since when did Microsoft start responding to rumors?

 

[TheOddOne]

WTF? Since when did Microsoft start responding to rumors?

They didn't, it's the normal "we do not comment on rumour or speculation".

 

[Big Takeover]

What if...

...the next Xbox comes with a tablet controller. That has flash storage built in, and a high speed wireless connectivity.

If you want to buy a game in a store, you take it within range of the store/kiosk, then go to a 'buy games' app on your tablet controller, and download the game(s) to the tablet, then take them home and transfer to your HDD.

I don't think distribution of games of large size will work on individual cards.

A kiosk where you plug your thumb drive in to buy games seems a bit more reasonable.

A sort of consolation prize for Gamestop. "Sorry, we're cutting you out from selling games, but we'll still drive traffic to your store at which point you can berate them about protection plans and rewards cards.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

Sounds like a completely godawful idea. No way Microsoft would go through with something as insane as this.

 

[GavinGT]

They didn't, it's the normal "we do not comment on rumour or speculation".

I guess they saw an opportunity to insert some PR-speak before refusing to comment, though. That's not typical.

 

[bigtroyjon]

Exactly.

And yet the idevices are flourishing, those problems aren't that big of a deal overall.

Not by bringing his iPod with you at a store, for sure.[/QUOTE}
I don't think anyone is saying that would be the only way to buy a game.

 

[itsgreen]

Doesn't matter if the cards, proprietary or not, are rewritable and the system can also store and install game packages. Most games won't even be on disc next-gen, I'm certain, while all games will be on DD channels...so there's a lot less absolute reason to support a disc format as standard equipment in this scenario which needs a console to be highly usable for five to seven years afterward. By the end of the gen in 2020, we'll be so accustomed to DD as standard that it will be like it was looking back to VHS as it ages and DVD was gaining ground due to instant access, no rewinding, exclusive newer content, etc. It's practically been there for years if you're into PC and mobile.

It may be in 2020, but in 2013 it won't.
The overwhelming majority of households won't have a sufficient connection to reasonably get a 20 gig game.
Even now half of consoles isn't even connected

Disc drive or flashcard?
Disc drive always.
Disc drives are relatively cheap, not that expensive. (Although the flash card readers are cheaper)
Discs are much much cheaper than a flash memory based device. Think at least in the order of 15x. I am not positive about the costs of a Blu-ray disc, but lets say a 50 gig disc is 1$ and a 16gig flash card is 15$. That is just for the medium and not even the console fees. Base prices will immediately be at least 15$ higher. (Not to mention that early in a generation games are pretty expensive, so look for those 75$ games).
Flash memory would probably be more secure and could have advantages in terms of throughput.

 

[bigtroyjon]

Why is Microsoft issuing statements at 3 AM Redmond time. Something seems suspicious about all of this.

 

[Foil]

Cannot wait to download 40 GB everytime a game is released on next gen consoles.

The sad thing is that's half of my monthly bandwidth cap...

Maybe going digital only will be a good thing? I'll barely be able to buy any games.

Aren't we forgetting games are not necessarily purchased by those that own the system they are intended to run on? What if I want to buy a christmas/birthday present to someone. Do I have to ask him for his SD card first?

I wonder if they would have each game printed on retail card codes, kinda like how they sell MS point cards and PSN cards in stores? That way retail can still get sales, and yet it's all controlled by digital downloads without people having to go into stores with crap like tablets/memory cards to download stuff.

 

[cilonen]

I, for one, welcome our cartridge-based future.

(for the sarcasm impaired: I don't welcome a return to carts for home consoles, this is hilariously bad if true).

 

[Lafiel]

Man if it's true - australians are going be so SCREWED.

Not so sure if I fully believe this though; but I wouldn't put it behind microsoft, this seems like exactly the kind of thing they'd do, despite how daring it is.

 

[itsgreen]

Why is Microsoft issuing statements at 3 AM Redmond time. Something seems suspicious about all of this.

It's not like they have PR people in let say the UK! There is only 1 timezone! AMERICAN!

 

[Kaako]

Would be entertaining as hell, that's for sure. But rumors be rumors.

 

[TTP]

And yet the idevices are flourishing, those problems aren't that big of a deal overall.

Not by bringing his iPod with you at a store, for sure.

I don't think anyone is saying that would be the only way to buy a game.

You don't download 20GBs games on iOS devices. And you do usually have iOS devices with you, unlike a game controller.

And I'm not questioning the validity of DD. Just that particular gofreak hypothesis which involves bringing the controller with you.

I wonder if they would have each game printed on retail card codes, kinda like how they sell MS point cards and PSN cards in stores? That way retail can still get sales, and yet it's all controlled by digital downloads without people having to go into stores with crap like tablets/memory cards to download stuff.

That would be a much more sensible approach to retail sales.

 

[test_account]

http://s3.pirillo.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/FloppyDisk.jpg

Hehe true, it says nothing about not including floppy drive

 

[PrinceOfApathy]

Man if it's true - australians are going be so SCREWED.

Not so sure if I fully believe this though; but I wouldn't put it behind microsoft, this seems like exactly the kind of thing they'd do, despite how daring it is.

Not only Australians. There are tons of people around the world that game, and there are no Gamestops or EBs to go to a "Kiosk" to get said game.

Not to mention either slow bandwith or worse bandwith caps.

I want Microsoft to actually do this so badly so they disappear from the gamer mindshare.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Something tells me that drive-less system will be a re-purposed Xbox 360 w/ Kinect ultra cheap gaming system.

 

[jett]

Games coming in SD cards doesn't make any sense, they're not remotely as cost-effective to manufacture as optical media.

 

[Lausebub]

Yeah, maybe we'll se an Xbox+Kincet w/o a drive and with some preinstalled Kinect game plus free point for 250$. Coming out this fall or something.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

I guess they saw an opportunity to insert some PR-speak before refusing to comment, though. That's not typical.

Maybe a hint that they plan to release a new Xbox 360 without disc drive? They are talking about extending the lifecycle of the current Xbox. Most Xbox 360 games would fit on small flash cards.

 

[derFeef]

Not only Australians. There are tons of people around the world that game, and there are no Gamestops or EBs to go to a "Kiosk" to get said game.

Not to mention either slow bandwith or worse bandwith caps.

I want Microsoft to actually do this so badly so they disappear from the gamer mindshare.

That's the second time you write this now, is this really necessary?

Something tells me that drive-less system will be a re-purposed Xbox 360 w/ Kinect ultra cheap gaming system.

that's actually a good guess.

 

[GavinGT]

Maybe a hint that they plan to release a new Xbox 360 without disc drive? Most Xbox 360 games will fit on small flash cards.

That'd be silly, though. DVD drives go for peanuts these days.

Not only Australians. There are tons of people around the world that game, and there are no Gamestops or EBs to go to a "Kiosk" to get said game.

So they put them in gas stations, then. Or integrate them into Redbox or whatever self-service station is available in your area.

 

[itsgreen]

Maybe a hint that they plan to release a new Xbox 360 without disc drive? Most Xbox 360 games will fit on small flash cards.

Would make much more sense! 8 gig is significant less than 25gig+

That'd be silly, though. DVD drives go for peanuts these days.

Yeah but 20$ on $200 retail is a lot. Also they could reduce the box size... If they sell 20 million additional consoles without drive (low estimate) thats 400$ mio extra!

 

[Gemüsepizza]

That'd be silly, though. DVD drives go for peanuts these days.

But they are big. With a flash drive they can reduce size, therefore storage cost, power usage (smaller psu?), maybe they can reduce warranty cases, because I assume mechanical parts like disc drives are potential weak points.

 

[Lafiel]

I see a DD-only console being a viable thing in the next-next gen. But it's to early for next-gen; especially with a number of developed countries behind in terms of internet speeds / bandwidth etc, hell they are countries where you can't even create a live account!

Also it's possible to sell DD games physically in form of download cards!

 

[GavinGT]

Would make much more sense! 8 gig is significant less than 25gig+



Yeah but 20$ on $200 retail is a lot. Also they could reduce the box size... If they sell 20 million additional consoles without drive (low estimate) thats 400$ mio extra!

Microsoft isn't paying $20 per drive. They're paying more in the ballpark of $6 per drive. I pay $15 a piece for 360 drives for my small-scale repair business.

Plus, it would introduce brand confusion, and would require tons of R&D without a guaranteed payoff for their efforts.

 

[Xater]

No disc, no buy!

Seriously that would be an easy decision. It's also way too early for DD only console considering how many people actually have these consoles connected to the internet, and download caps.

 

[guek]

Please don't lump the whole "West" in with the US in terms of broadband availability and conditions.

Might as well. I know there are places elsewhere in the world and in major US cities where broadband and bandwidth are decent, but the majority of the western world has really shitty internet.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

It may be in 2020, but in 2013 it won't.
The overwhelming majority of households won't have a sufficient connection to reasonably get a 20 gig game.
Even now half of consoles isn't even connected

Disc drive or flashcard?
Disc drive always.
Disc drives are relatively cheap, not that expensive. (Although the flash card readers are cheaper)
Discs are much much cheaper than a flash memory based device. Think at least in the order of 15x. I am not positive about the costs of a Blu-ray disc, but lets say a 50 gig disc is 1$ and a 16gig flash card is 15$. That is just for the medium and not even the console fees. Base prices will immediately be at least 15$ higher. (Not to mention that early in a generation games are pretty expensive, so look for those 75$ games).
Flash memory would probably be more secure and could have advantages in terms of throughput.

I think I already addressed these concerns in my previous posts in this thread. Discs can still happen with an added drive unit, or included with your higher-tier console model. Consumers may still able to go to a retail outlet and buy physical releases, either in dedicated ROM card or disc format or simply on their card which is loaded with game data on-site. A good solid state storage format solution will likely smoke the best existing optical disc option every time, something that developers and players alike will appreciate given the massive increase in memory to fill.

Reasons I see this happening: Retail for disc-based games is dying. People are increasingly used to buying off of a digital storefront, even if it's to order a physical product, chiefly due to convenience. The majority of developers of games next-gen will be smaller ones that produce smaller titles that mostly don't need to be 20Gigs, like bigger budget games (and if they did, they could always be episodic or segmented for speed of product delivery). All games will be on DD channels.