Goodacre0081
Member
I hope not. I'm going to assume most people have a regular BD/DVD/DivX player. I've been through too many rrod and lensfailures to even look at my 360's disc drive.
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MCV rumour: Next Xbox will not have a disc drive, 2013 release
- Thread starter gofreak
- Start date
I hope not. I'm going to assume most people have a regular BD/DVD/DivX player. I've been through too many rrod and lensfailures to even look at my 360's disc drive.
Impeccable
Member
Internet doesn't allow a system to be fully DD yet.
It's great large metro centres and some countries have great internet but most of the US and Canada have caps and slow speeds still.
It's great large metro centres and some countries have great internet but most of the US and Canada have caps and slow speeds still.
The Bookerman
Member
Sprsk redeemed? Rofl. No way this shit will happen. Cartridges?
lol
lol
All valid concerns. I agree a disc is the most convenient and economical way to do this, but just trying to imagine what a flash-based distribution method could look like. I think if the idea was to lead people away from retail to downloading at home, inconveniences of the former might be tolerated by a platform holder.
The only problem with discs though, is just the preowned thing. Unless that's a huge concern I agree that it's sort of stretching to go with the kind of system I'm talking about. But IF it's a big concern and they want to go download-only (either in-store or at home), I think something like that might be a way to do it.
Gemüsepizza
Member
Maybe MCV made an error interpreting this rumor: They thought the "Next Xbox" would be "Xbox 3" when their source just meant "next revision of Xbox", and we will see two new Xbox consoles in 2013: A new revision of the 360 with smaller form factor and flash drive and a Xbox 3.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
Takes about an hour for an average 1MB/s connection to download a game on steam.
I don't really know what's the difference. If MS can provide a download service as good as Steam, then I don't really think we as users have any grounds to prejudge. We should all wait and see what happens.
I haven't really been following gaming news but wasn't MCV was a reputable news site for these sort of things? I'd like to know.
So was Eurogamer, until they started posting Photoshops from 4chan as confirmed news pieces.
Yeah, they do it with point cards now so I fully expect games to take on this format in retail stores. Cheap to make, easy to ship, one time use codes, can be given as gifts, takes up very little shelf space, gives them a large presence at retail and keeps retail in the game, no more used market, etc.
Not sure if I like the idea, but I think it's very likely this happens alongside a massive digital download push. Atleast this way nobody has to carry annoying tablets or memory cards into stores. Personally I like to own physical copies of my media, but I guess things change. Still doesn't help people with small bandwidth caps, like myself.
Quick shop of a likely future for retail:
infinityBCRT
Member
Fuck. I was hoping for support for quad layer and higher Blurays so that shit like RAGE and LA Noire are a lot more plausible.
MikeE21286
Member
Well that is how you stop used game...
MCV: Disc-less Next Xbox - your questions answered
Actualy their sister site Develop is known to be the credible one.
MightyHedgehog
Member
Who is saying DD-only? MS isn't blind, they have the hard numbers in front of them, after all. And caps will give way to competitors not employing them or offering higher ones. Their future as successful ISPs, however, hinges on online businesses of all types and those are all directly hurt by caps. So, caps might be here and there now, but I don't see it lasting very long in NA and other online-heavy territories.
I see you got yourself in there, gofreak. Nice.
Oh yeah I definitely think that all games you will be able to get in store are also available in DD format.
And there will, of course, be DD only (XBLA++) games.
I also think it's possible there will be 2 main SKU's, a DD only device and a 'traditional' model.
I don't think there will be only a DD device.
And I don't think either device will have a custom flash memory based storage device to buy 'boxed' games on. It just doesn't make any financial sense despite its advantages in terms of performance. It really is $1 media vs $15+ media.
Nor will there be devices at retailers to transfer games on/from/to your stuff, be it new games or 360 back compat games. Those operations are way too complicated and expensive, if only in terms of man hours.
Psychotext
Member
I really, really doubt this... but who knows, stranger things have happened.
I just don't see how it could possibly be price feasible vs a dual layer blu-ray.
I just don't see how it could possibly be price feasible vs a dual layer blu-ray.
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
This 'no disc drive' rumour just won't go away, huh?
Will never happen. Everything works because everything is in spec. This is the reason why your first gen 360 games still work on your slim console.
I believe I have read somewhere that the slim console are in fact slightly faster than the first gen 360 models, but they are throttling it just a bit so everything works just as it supposed to...
If this is the strategy that MS are following it seems to me that they might be adopted a stance similar to Sony in so much as they intend to keep the 360 as a viable format and have this new platform exist alongside it.
Making noises about keeping the 360 going for 'years to come' like Sony did with the PS2 might keep their retail partners from going beserk.
Making noises about keeping the 360 going for 'years to come' like Sony did with the PS2 might keep their retail partners from going beserk.
Well, I was imagining a Wii like scenario. Like imagine a chipset 50% faster with twice the RAM. Playing an old game? Well it throttles down and half the ram is locked out...so you are dealing with an identical piece of kit.
I have a feeling this could be what this rumor relates to.
Makes sense to me.
MS releases the new Xbox, discontinues the 360, but in it's place, releases a shrunk down 360 that's DD only for GoD and Arcade games. 1TB HDD, super cheap price, still makes money.
Gives them more presence in the market.
Makes sense to me.
MS releases the new Xbox, discontinues the 360, but in it's place, releases a shrunk down 360 that's DD only for GoD and Arcade games. 1TB HDD, super cheap price, still makes money.
Gives them more presence in the market.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
I was thinking the same thing. If this proves true, I won't be buying the next Xbox. Oh, and so much for bc.
donkey show
Member
They're going to have game carts like the 8-64 bit generation consoles, obviously.
MightyHedgehog
Member
Well, why are we assuming every game has to be these tens of gigabytes in size, when the reality today is that most of the popular titles are all pretty damn small? They can still one-off smaller cards for smaller, but still popular games while larger titles will stay on disc and DD only. There's room for two read-only options, I think.
Sure, it's a bit of a pie in the sky idea, though the rapid growth of Redbox and other kiosks over the course of four years proves that this could happen. The cost may be justified to the first party due to what they calculate they'll 'lose' with a used games market and more convenient piracy involved. Hell, what's stopping Redbox from partnering with one or all of the platform-holders to offer this service?
I think the games being on SD cards would be a great idea.
Even a game as massive as Skyrim was only 4GB in size. SD cards go up to 64GB right now with pretty good bandwidth to boot.
It means we'd get a tiny console with no moving parts so reliability should be a given. Our games library would also be very portable.
Sounds awesome to me.
Even a game as massive as Skyrim was only 4GB in size. SD cards go up to 64GB right now with pretty good bandwidth to boot.
It means we'd get a tiny console with no moving parts so reliability should be a given. Our games library would also be very portable.
Sounds awesome to me.
shinobi602
Member
Lol, I'll stick with the PS4 and Wii U then next gen, not even joking.
Fuck DD only. I like my discs.
Edit: Ok, if games are on some solid state media, I would be game.
Fuck DD only. I like my discs.
Edit: Ok, if games are on some solid state media, I would be game.
Are you completely ignoring the posts that discussed the issues with a card over and over?
mediapulp_wes
Member
Cheaper, smaller base SKU with HDD and no optical drive. External optical drive (Blu Ray) or larger more expensive secondary SKU with built in drive available.
Retailers selling game cards for downloads as primary with smaller stock of optical versions for those of you not ready to embrace the future.
That would work nicely for me.
Retailers selling game cards for downloads as primary with smaller stock of optical versions for those of you not ready to embrace the future.
That would work nicely for me.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
Why? You love giant cases and dvds that much? I don't see the issue here, the SD cards would allow us to still own a physical copy.
gaming_noob
Member
Glad to know. I make my decisions without knowing what the final product is going to be like too.
But seriously, I'd love for MS to go with bluray instead but if they did their research and DD is an effective format then go for it..I'm willing to try it.
Good point.
Perhaps not an issue 12/18 months after launch but 3 or 4 years down the line this could be a huge issue if MS intended to expand the consoles market.
The difference being one company is aggressive with pricing and one is not. If all console games could be purchased for under 9.99 within 6 months or so, I'm sure the vast majority of people would love a console centric DD system. What are the odds of that? Pretty effing slim.
Even the DD indie titles on those services, which have no retail prices they have to "protect", almost never get deep discounts. Heavy sales are routine on Steam and the foundation for people's love of the store.
R
Rösti
Unconfirmed Member
A system not incorporating a disc drive I would appreciate, based on several reasons:
Next, we have the problems with used games and the blue dahlia scenario for key retailers such as GameStop to stock these for Xbox Durango. Would such retailers even carry the system if they cannot continue their marketing of used games because of it?
And finally, what kind of disk drive sizes are we talking here? If download speeds encountered are indeed for the majority not very high, I assume most would want to download as many games as possible and store them locally, in opposition to having perhaps five games (each of 50 GB) at any given time but deleting and switching between titles when you want something new. I don't have that many games for Xbox 360, but I know some players pack something around 50-100 titles. Let's say these games vary in size from 30-100 GB, that would theoretically require a disk drive with a capacity of 3-10 TB. That's quite much, especially the upper end, even for the PC market.
I can see both pros and cons with this, I personally would prefer a disc free system, but I have a feeling that there would be a rather great opposition to such. The next generation with all its promises I'm eagerly awaiting.
- Retailers could increase profits decreasing decrement due to the fact that games would have to be packaged in one or more of three SKUs (that I can think of anyway):
As a redeemable code, similar to the Pre-Paid Game Card for World of Warcraft. The SKU looks like an ordinary game package but features a card/sheet with a code instead of a disc.Microsoft Points - Game packages are no longer featured in stores, instead if you want to purchase a game, you will need Microsoft Points which you use to download games.Through an in-store game kiosk, and customers use a flash card or other storage unit to transfer games.Out of these, I'd say that the first option is the most reasonable. Merchants will still be able to utilize proven shelf management and space elasticity theories, but they do not have to worry about customers knocking game packes to the floor and thus causing damage, as the redeemable code would be fitted onto a card or sheet of some kind. And with less movable parts to think about, game packages can be made smaller. A regular keep case is 190mm high and 135mm wide, with a typical thickness of 15mm. Length and width could be maintained here for path dependence, but thickness could be decreased to 5mm (that's the thickness of the World of Warcraft 60 Day Pre-Paid Time Card). Smaller packages almost always equal reduced production costs, the exception is if production facilities need to upgrade equipment for new processes, but this won't be necessary if Microsoft chooses a solution like this.
If Microsoft is going for highest profitability though, a solution with Microsoft Points is the way to go. Cards and packaging for these should be very inexpensive, and as very large quantities would have to be produced, bulk discount is most certainly applied. For video game stores, fitting all available shelf shape with Microsoft Points would however be unfavorable, so something more has to be done here, and this could be in the form of some kind of interactive experience where customers can browse games available for Xbox Durango. This can be done using a Durango demo unit. For certain periods, like the holidays and Black Friday, there could also be SKUs for a certain game, such as for Halo Reach with the 2100 Points (and banshee avatar prop) implementation launched in November 2010. A system like this would also significate a store's ability to always, indirectly, offer all concurrent games for Xbox Durango, as long as Microsoft doesn't delete something from the servers the game data is housed on.
- Increased security for the end customer, as discs that can be scratched are no longer present. While satisfaction related to feelings of ownership may not be as applicable here as when a user manually inserts a game disc, I believe the majority of the audience would find relief in not having to worry about scratching discs, and thus it evens out. Furthermore, as a system like this would probably be account based, users should be able to at any given time delete a purchased game from the storage unit (disk drive etc.) but be able to download it again and again on a later point; actual disc games you can lose (they can also end up in the laundry, refrigerator etc. and eventually become not salvageable), with this solution you are less likely to lose your opportunity to play the games. Even if the console should experience some system error and become eligible for repair, you'd still be able to continue playing your games either on a separate unit or when your unit returns, as long as Microsoft vouches for you keeping a printed copy of login credentials, and eventually redeemed game codes as well.
Next, we have the problems with used games and the blue dahlia scenario for key retailers such as GameStop to stock these for Xbox Durango. Would such retailers even carry the system if they cannot continue their marketing of used games because of it?
And finally, what kind of disk drive sizes are we talking here? If download speeds encountered are indeed for the majority not very high, I assume most would want to download as many games as possible and store them locally, in opposition to having perhaps five games (each of 50 GB) at any given time but deleting and switching between titles when you want something new. I don't have that many games for Xbox 360, but I know some players pack something around 50-100 titles. Let's say these games vary in size from 30-100 GB, that would theoretically require a disk drive with a capacity of 3-10 TB. That's quite much, especially the upper end, even for the PC market.
I can see both pros and cons with this, I personally would prefer a disc free system, but I have a feeling that there would be a rather great opposition to such. The next generation with all its promises I'm eagerly awaiting.
Still deliver games on disc at retail, but that's just an alternative to download, the gme would still be fully installed and registered online. Basically how steamworks games work at retail.
Maybe if you don't have the optical drive model you can install over your home network from a pc, like MacBook air
Maybe if you don't have the optical drive model you can install over your home network from a pc, like MacBook air
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Well, compare Games on Demand pricing and sales with Steam pricing and sales. Then add paying for online on top of that.
Preferring one over the other seems perfectly rational at that point.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
Do it MS.
physical media can suck it anyway. make it as good as steam and I'm onboard.
better launch that shit with halo though, that should convince the 'NOBUY!' people.
physical media can suck it anyway. make it as good as steam and I'm onboard.
better launch that shit with halo though, that should convince the 'NOBUY!' people.
They can't because they're not Valve. They're Microsoft.
Comparing now with a potential future is a bit useless I think. And most people did bring other arguments, that could have been said about the SteamBox too.
Valve has proved they can provide a profitable dd business model that plays fair.
I love MS. I love my 360. But I will probably jump out of my window before I'll buy a DD copy of game on my 360. The prices set are by no means a representation of the store prices. Games you can get for 20$ are 50$ and games that are 50$ in retail are 70$.
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