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[Koomaster]

I don't understand what it means to say ranked higher. Ranked higher than what? What does that rank entail? Do they get more money or get first in a lunch line? What benefit does ranking higher in a medal give someone? And why is there ranks at all?

 

[Avixph]

I think the drones themselves should get medals.

 

[teruterubozu]

I don't understand what it means to say ranked higher. Ranked higher than what? What does that rank entail? Do they get more money or get first in a lunch line? What benefit does ranking higher in a medal give someone? And why is there ranks at all?

Prestige. Is that so hard to understand?

 

[SouthernDragon]

I was honestly surprised when it was ranked higher than the Bronze Star and Purple Heart. Very much a "wtf" moment. This should be one of the lowest ranking medals.

 

[enewtabie]

Shouldn't be higher than direct combat awards. They should be recognized as Drone operators are military pilots and not civillians at the controls ( I hope thats widely known?

 

[BattleMonkey]

Do they get a purple heart if they get a paper cut while operating a drone?

 

[bro1]

This is like a horse based calvaryman complaining that the tank drivers are getting medals. Progress is a bitch.

 

[ghst]

drone operators are glorified "IRL" videogamers
pathetic

soldiers are glorified low level machinery operators.

 

[Rocket Scientist]

This is like a horse based calvaryman complaining that the tank drivers are getting medals. Progress is a bitch.

Nope not in the slightest the same thing.

 

[Vhalyar]

Next step: Miniature AI cloud sensor drones been controlled RTS style... and after that, AI control of all battlefield assets.

Next logical step then is to give the AI medals too.

 

[bro1]

Nope not in the slightest the same thing.

How is it not?

 

[kehs]

How is it not?

Drone pilots don't ride on top of their drones.

 

[Rocket Scientist]

How is it not?

They don't risk their lives unlike both of those.

 

[Protein]

I think the drones themselves should get medals.

This is like a horse based calvaryman complaining that the tank drivers are getting medals. Progress is a bitch.

Swordsman: &%$$&$# bullets! Why are rifleman getting medals and I'm getting speared in the liver?


2 centuries later..

Drone Operator: why are androids getting medals?

 

[ghst]

is an extremely brave soldier who strategically achieves very little more worthwhile than a chicken shit UAV operator whose skills are of great strategic value?

do you get medals for valorous but ultimately ineffective acts or sculpting whole conflicts with a starbucks in one hand?

 

[Zaptruder]

This may be the first point in my life where I think that all that Metal Gear Solid storyline may not be complete japanese fictional neo noir shit.

Well... I don't know about metal gear mecha or the other craziness going on in that series.

But combining high quality AI with low cost drones and explosives seems to me like an ultimate weapon of sorts.

Smart guided bomblets; cheap, deadly, effective, low collateral damage. Different explosives can be used for different targets. And they can be delivered via cruise missle or other forms of rocketry; drones with explosives are the payload instead of simply one explosive.

I don't know of an idea for a more effective weapon system for eliminating opposition.

I mean... you can use nukes, or other forms of WMDs, but they're not more effective... just more devastating.

It's even possible for them to self destruct carefully once they've reached the end of the operational life time while searching for their targets.


As a result, future warfare will most likely necessarily revolve around drone and counter drone warfare (electronics warfare and espionage on a state level).

 

[MrHicks]

soldiers are glorified low level machinery operators.

whose life is constantly in danger......
requires stuff like bravery, self sacrifice, etc etc

you the know the stuff heroes are made off


THIS on the other hand just LOL

 

[WanderingWind]

I think calling soldiers chickenshits is going a bit too far. They're doing the job assigned to them. Doesn't mean they rate a super high award, but unless we can find an operator whining because he's not getting a V for valor award, I think the blame falls on the politicians who are making this an issue.

 

[PaulExcellent]

I think people give drone operators too much shite sometimes. I think it would be dramatically easier on me to kill from a fighter jet, or even as a foot soldier than to kill as a drone operator.

Drone operators sometimes watch their targets for weeks, all day every day, really getting to know them, their family and friends. I can only imagine the ptsd I'd go through after killing in that situation, even if there wasn't any collateral.

Nope nope nope nope nope.
Try again.

 

[Dead Man]

As I said in the other thread, they are participation awards, and pretty shitty ones at that.

For those saying officers get medals for non combat bollocks, that's true, but officers have always looked after themselves in their medal tally, its how they keep score.

 

[ghst]

whose life is constantly in danger......
requires stuff like bravery, self sacrifice, etc etc

you the know the stuff heroes are made off


THIS on the other hand just LOL

it's thinking like this which led to armies leading cavalry charges in parade dress into machine gun fire at the outbreak of WWI.

 

[zoukka]

I don't see anything wrong with rewarding drone operators for exemplary service, but placing it higher in precedence than actual combat medals is insanity.

It's all about the killcount & k/d ratio now.

 

[R2D4]

Speaking of medals. I wonder what NK medals consist of?

That's a ton of brass for no wars. They don't look old enough to have fought in the Korean War. Maybe they are for killing civilians?

 

[Kinitari]

Nope nope nope nope nope.
Try again.

I really don't mind being corrected if my understanding of drone operation is incorrect, why don't you educate me?

 

[PaulExcellent]

Is it cool if I PM you about it?

 

[Borgnine]

D-D-D-D-D-D-OUBLE KILLL
RAMPAGEEEEEE
GODLIKE

 

[Hari Seldon]

Speaking of medals. I wonder what NK medals consist of?

That's a ton of brass for no wars. They don't look old enough to have fought in the Korean War. Maybe they are for killing civilians?

The two on the left look old enough haha.

 

[Protein]

Speaking of medals. I wonder what NK medals consist of?

How many meals you've had in a week.

 

[MrHicks]

it's thinking like this which led to armies leading cavalry charges in parade dress into machine gun fire at the outbreak of WWI.

what thinking?

 

[Kinitari]

Is it cool if I PM you about it?

Sure, if it's something personal you don't want to share with the rest of GAF - otherwise, I think sharing with the thread might be a good way to give people a more realistic idea of what sort of job a drone pilot does (I assume you have some intimate knowledge of this).

 

[EYEL1NER]

I don't understand what it means to say ranked higher. Ranked higher than what? What does that rank entail? Do they get more money or get first in a lunch line? What benefit does ranking higher in a medal give someone? And why is there ranks at all?

Besides the prestige that was already mentioned, medals can also be ranked in order of how many points they are worth for promotions. Some medals are worth none, some carry a good number of points.
For some people, this means nothing. But there are a lot of career-minded individuals in the military for whom this means more than what the medal was awarded for or what it stands for.
I knew two SrA who came back from Afghanistan, one with a Bronze Star and one with a Purple Heart, and I still remember hearing people say almost right upon their arrival "You got a Bronze Star? how many points is that again? You're gonna make SSgt first try!"



I am in agreement that the medals should not be so highly rated, but I don't have a problem with the operators or pilots being awarded medals.

 

[Avixph]

Drone pilots don't ride on top of their drones.

That would be pretty cool.

 

[HiiiLife]

Some of these posts are pathetic. Now we're laughing at their careers and calling them chickenshits? Womp womp.

 

[airmangataosenai]

Has anyone posted the story about the finance worker winning the bronze star yet?

http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2012/04/air-force-tech-sergeants-take-heat-bronze-stars-041612/

The controversy began in late March after the Air Force posted a story online about Tech. Sgt. Christina Gamez, a financial analyst with the 802nd Comptroller Squadron who received the Bronze Star on March 14 at Joint Base San Antonio.

“Gamez distinguished herself by meritorious achievement as the [noncommissioned officer] in charge during a 365-day deployment, January 2011 to January 2012,” the story said. “While in Afghanistan, she accurately executed operational funds across eight remote bases, providing commanders with flexibility in support of counterinsurgency efforts. Gamez trained 68 operational fund teams, reviewed 34 projects and funded 280 joint acquisition board packages enabling critical base sustainment.”

The story drew 70 online comments between March 26 and March 29, mostly from people who were livid because they said Gamez did not deserve to be recognized for doing her job.

“My brother in the army was awarded the bronze star with valor,” one person wrote. “If I showed him this I bet he’d give it back. I’m sad to be an airman right now.

 

[WalkMan]

Well... I don't know about metal gear mecha or the other craziness going on in that series.

But combining high quality AI with low cost drones and explosives seems to me like an ultimate weapon of sorts.

Smart guided bomblets; cheap, deadly, effective, low collateral damage. Different explosives can be used for different targets. And they can be delivered via cruise missle or other forms of rocketry; drones with explosives are the payload instead of simply one explosive.

I don't know of an idea for a more effective weapon system for eliminating opposition.

I mean... you can use nukes, or other forms of WMDs, but they're not more effective... just more devastating.

It's even possible for them to self destruct carefully once they've reached the end of the operational life time while searching for their targets.


As a result, future warfare will most likely necessarily revolve around drone and counter drone warfare (electronics warfare and espionage on a state level).

Work for a defense contractor? You're doing a pretty good job of describing the landscape of war in the future.

 

[Phoenix]

Yeah, this is pretty gross.

Achievement unlocked

 

[PaulExcellent]

Fair enough.

As a Scientific Assistant, I have worked with drones throughout some tests, and from experience, they do not "track families and friends". That statement is incorrect. There are spy drones, but they do not monitor like that.

Everything else in your statement is correct.
Most give the operators some shit, but honestly, I'm more than happy to have their support.

And no, I cannot go more into detail.

 

[WarMacheen]

soldiers are glorified low level machinery operators.

You win the award for the most full of shit post in this thread, I hope this isn't your actual opinion.

golfclap.gif

Anyway a medal is fine for these guys, but it's priority on the list should be relatively low.

 

[EYEL1NER]

Has anyone posted the story about the finance worker winning the bronze star yet?

http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2012/04/air-force-tech-sergeants-take-heat-bronze-stars-041612/

I remember this.
Things like this are to be expected though. Look at the EPR system and bullets, listen to some awards presentations... There are always supervisors who will fluff their subordinate's accomplishments. Hell, the way my various supervisors wrote my EPRs and bullets is one of the reasons I probably got my job after getting out; they definitely made me sound important.
This finance troop did an important job over there, sure. But she had the perfect storm of bad leadership all the way up the chain for this to have been approved and signed off on. I wouldn't hate her though or anything.

Anyway, The Duffel Blog will probably have some good satire soon about these vets who are complaining. Hell, they might have already done a spoof story about drone pilots getting high awards in the past.

 

[Ikael]

Why should they recieve a medal when they are not putting their lifes at risk for a (self percieved) higher cause? Medals are a sign of valor and sacrifice, which kind of courage do drone pilots show, and what do they have to give up for their mission?

 

[EYEL1NER]

http://www.duffelblog.com/2013/02/predator-drone-is-first-recipient-of-distinguished-warfare-medal/

Man I love the Duffel Blog.

Edit: Ha, I thought they had done something about this in the past:
Drone Pilot to Receive First Air Force Medal of Honor Since Vietnam.

“Most people think of drone pilots as glorified computer junkies, but we’re really modern-day snipers,” Major Beasley told The Duffel Blog. “We’re out there, days at a time, watching the same compound, with nothing but candy bars from the vending machine to keep us going and the sounds of Sons of Anarchy playing on our iPhones.”

The Air Force is already trumpeting Major Beasley as a modern-day Carlos Hathcock, the legendary Marine sniper with 93 confirmed kills in Vietnam. Air Force officials have pointed out that Major Beasley’s 193 confirmed kills during the operation arguably make him one of the greatest marksmen in history. There are already plans to use him in recruiting commercials, similar to the Israeli Defence Force’s public parades for missile ace Idan Yahya.

“Air warfare sure has changed,” Major Beasley observed.  “Even just a few years ago I could still fly my F-16 over Iraq, monitoring the same compound for hours at a time, eventually directing a laser-guided bomb on it… not like today.”

Disclaimer: The Duffel Blog is similar to The Onion, satire.

 

[WarMacheen]

Why should they recieve a medal when they are not putting their lifes at risk for a (self percieved) higher cause? Medals are a sign of valor and sacrifice, which kind of courage do drone pilots show, and what do they have to give up for their mission?

There are medals that don't involve life and limb

 

[la flama blanca]

Inevitable.

 

[PaulExcellent]

http://www.duffelblog.com/2013/02/predator-drone-is-first-recipient-of-distinguished-warfare-medal/

Man I love the Duffel Blog.

That's fantastic!

 

[WanderingWind]

Why should they recieve a medal when they are not putting their lifes at risk for a (self percieved) higher cause? Medals are a sign of valor and sacrifice, which kind of courage do drone pilots show, and what do they have to give up for their mission?

Medals are, and always have been, given for all kinds of things. Hell, right out of boot camp you rate 1 medal and 1 ribbon, just for joining during a time of war. You can disagree with how medals and ribbons are given out, but the reality is they've never been only a sign of valor. That's why there are different levels of awards. A National Defense Ribbon is going to be a lesser of an award than a Bronze Star for that very reason.

 

[Kinitari]

Fair enough.

As a Scientific Assistant, I have worked with drones throughout some tests, and from experience, they do not "track families and friends". That statement is incorrect. There are spy drones, but they do not monitor like that.

Everything else in your statement is correct.
Most give the operators some shit, but honestly, I'm more than happy to have their support.

And no, I cannot go more into detail.

Thanks for clarifying! I appreciate the information, it's always good to have a more accurate idea of how these sorts of things operate.

If it's within your ability to share, could you give us a better idea of what sort of stresses (if any) a drone operator does have to deal with? Hopefully that isn't sensitive information.

 

[HiiiLife]

I can already tell which posters flat out understand the situation. Kudos to you, PaulExcellent. Some of these posts though, y'all talking out the side of your neck. Lol.

 

[PaulExcellent]

Thanks for clarifying! I appreciate the information, it's always good to have a more accurate idea of how these sorts of things operate.

If it's within your ability to share, could you give us a better idea of what sort of stresses (if any) a drone operator does have to deal with? Hopefully that isn't sensitive information.

I'm not sure if it is sensitive, but I rather someone with more experience on the subject explain it.

Also, I apologize if my post came off a bit aggressive.

 

[Violet_0]

what

no

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/pain-continues-after-war-for-american-drone-pilot-a-872726.html

The use of the term "clinical war" makes him angry. It reminds him of the Vietnam veterans who accuse him of never having waded through the mud or smelled blood, and who say that he doesn't know what he's talking about.

That isn't true, says Tart, noting that he often used the one-hour drive from work back to Las Vegas to distance himself from his job. "We watch people for months. We see them playing with their dogs or doing their laundry. We know their patterns like we know our neighbors' patterns. We even go to their funerals." It wasn't always easy, he says.

One of the paradoxes of drones is that, even as they increase the distance to the target, they also create proximity. "War somehow becomes personal," says Tart.

 

[nodle]

Sickening.