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[duckroll]

PS3 2 software titles in top 30 in Japan == looking death in the eyes.

I have said this many times before. In Japan nobody really gives a toss about the 360 and/or the PS3. It is all about the Wii and the DS.

Actual software sales figures indicate otherwise.

 

[schuelma]

PS3 2 software titles in top 30 in Japan == looking death in the eyes.

I have said this many times before. In Japan nobody really gives a toss about the 360 and/or the PS3. It is all about the Wii and the DS.

I say this when people say it of the Wii so I'll say it here too- it is absolute folly to judge momentum, etc. of the consoles based on one discrete time period. Neither console has a consistent enough lineup to justify that. Maybe it was sort of true for the Wii in 2007/2008 but in 2009 you have seen constant swings in sales momentum between the two in terms of hardware numbers and software charting. I don't expect that to change.

Just for a brief history:

March 2009- PS3 on the rise, Wii doomed

July/August- Wii on the rise, PS3 doomed

September/October- PS3 on the rise, Wii doomed

December 3-16- Wii on the rise

December 17- PS3 rising to heaven

Present day- Wii on top again

I expect PS3 to "be on the rise" much of Q1 2010.

 

[Vinnk]

Holy shit. Final Fantasy XIII is now below ¥7000 on four different retailers who do business through Amazon JP. Not in Japan to see if this has spread to the brick and mortar shops, so it could be nothing. But still...

Yeah, I saw that.
Suruga as well. 6650yen there.
Tsutaya still has it at 8038yen but the don't really drop prices much on any game.

As I said in the last thread, brick and Mortar shops are holding the price fairly wall. In the 7800-8200 range. (not a single store has it at it's crazy 9240 MSRP). But also the price stores will pay you for used copies has gone down a lot. Since they are no longer paying a lot it seems that they are not as confident that they can sell all the used copies they would be getting at that price. Same thing happens with most front loaded games, thus why Japanese people are so eager to sell those games in the first few days. And as with most of those games, the selling price will probably go down soon as well. But I am guessing the retailers will wait until after the kids have spent their new years gift money (otoshidama), that they will get tomorrow.

 

[Onesimos]

Even though Tales of Graces sold less than people here expected, but what does Namco-Bandai think of the sales? Is the publisher satisfied with the sales?

Another question: people talked about the fact that the Tales games selling better on the HD platforms. Do the Japanese tend to be console-centric and unwilling to buy multiple systems?

Offtopic: Ignore what I said about leaving NeoGAF, as I was having a bad Wednesday, and I apologize for my behavior the last few days. I should have been patient in waiting for Famitsu/Media Create numbers.

 

[cvxfreak]

Tales of Rebirth and Tales of Destiny 2 are both on a single UMD.

They are? Since when?

 

[Ruud_Luiten]

You mean it's now reaching the price of a normal game?!

No he means it's discounted in it's second week.

 

[thefro]

I say this when people say it of the Wii so I'll say it here too- it is absolute folly to judge momentum, etc. of the consoles based on one discrete time period. Neither console has a consistent enough lineup to justify that. Maybe it was sort of true for the Wii in 2007/2008 but in 2009 you have seen constant swings in sales momentum between the two in terms of hardware numbers and software charting. I don't expect that to change.

If NSMB Wii keeps showing the legs that the DS game had it should be enough to keep Wii on top for quite a while.

 

[schuelma]

Even though Tales of Graces sold less than people here expected, but what does Namco-Bandai think of the sales? Is the publisher satisfied with the sales?
.

I don't think we ever got Namco expectations. I imagine they expected more than the Symphonia spinoff though. Who knows, maybe it will sell great in the West and justify the series staying on the Wii. Doubt it though.

 

[Mr. Pointy]

Tales of Rebirth and Tales of Destiny 2 are both on a single UMD.

Neither of those are much bigger than 2GB on PS2, so they can compress onto a 1.8GB UMD pretty easily.

Graces takes up a full single-layer of a DVD. You'd have to cut a lot out to get it to fit on a single UMD. And cutting out anything would hurt your ability to resell the game to the Tales hardcore and would affect the inevitable word of mouth.

A HD port of Graces seems more likely, but who would they outsource it to and how long would it take to do? Also, how assy would it look compared to Vesperia.

 

[schuelma]

If NSMB Wii keeps showing the legs that the DS game had it should be enough to keep Wii on top for quite a while.

Its definitely possible, hardware wise. I was specifically talking about the Q1 lineups for the consoles, where PS3 has a distinct advantage. I do think that NSMB Wii in Q1 could be a bigger hardware mover than anything on that list though.

 

[duckroll]

They are? Since when?

 

[cvxfreak]

pics

Oh. I misinterpreted your post as stating they were both combined into one UMD as a set. Scamco is rarely this generous! :lol

 

[duckroll]

Oh. I misinterpreted your post as stating they were both combined into one UMD as a set. Scamco is rarely this generous! :lol

Oh......... I see. :lol

 

[Nirolak]

Neither of those are much bigger than 2GB on PS2, so they can compress onto a 1.8GB UMD pretty easily.

Graces takes up a full single-layer of a DVD. You'd have to cut a lot out to get it to fit on a single UMD. And cutting out anything would hurt your ability to resell the game to the Tales hardcore and would affect the inevitable word of mouth.

A HD port of Graces seems more likely, but who would they outsource it to and how long would it take to do? Also, how assy would it look compared to Vesperia.

Well, Graces doesn't look that bad on Dolphin in HD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPWAt9TuOsY&feature=related&HD=1

Though in a hypothetical PSP port, they could probably compress a whole lot without having people notice that much. I mean, they would probably need to reduce the geometry of everything a lot to start with, so that's help save a lot of space right there.

 

[cvxfreak]

The PSP Graces debate is moot.

Scamco will port to DS instead because DQIX sold well.

 

[lordmrw]

Is Samurai Warriors more appealing to a wider audience?

More than likely timing. There aren't any other games in its genre having been released/releasing in the same time frame so it stands out to an extent. Also, its actually a full fledged Musuo style game and not an expirement or spinoff. Makes me wonder how much better it would have done if the other Musuo style games that were released on every other system were ported and helped build an audience for it. I do think if(.....who am I fooling, when) Dynasty Warriors 7 or Dynasy warriors gundam 3 are released there will be a Wii version now. They have the engine for it.

 

[Road]

Famitsu is spoiling Chris's comparison chart for Mario games. Here is a Media-Create one:

4 weeks - [WII] New Super Mario Bros. Wii - 2,440,000
9 weeks - [NDS] New Super Mario Bros. - 2,401,965

 

[ksamedi]

BTW, what is the normal price point for a FF game? The FFXIII price point seems insane. Even if it sells less than usual, SE could be making a lot of money from the high price.

 

[DMeisterJ]

PS3 2 software titles in top 30 in Japan == looking death in the eyes.

I have said this many times before. In Japan nobody really gives a toss about the 360 and/or the PS3. It is all about the Wii and the DS.

So if it had spots 25-30 which combined have probably sold 150k thusly making it have seven int he top 30 it wouldn't be dead?

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

I think this discussion is missing some Musou perspective. Given the milking, quality and overall image you'd think Musou is a front-loaded series, but it isn't. Its not Nintendo-legs but it has good ones for known 3rd party franchises. See here in japanese (the first entire table is Musou): http://www.kyoto.zaq.ne.jp/dkbkq103/yso/maintitle5/koei.htm

So for example when you say its doing better than the first week told, it actually isn't. Its just keeping up like the others did. Its still doing like the worst main entry Musou ever, worse than a few lesser games too. A good comparison could be the first PS2 Musou, back in 2000. Its the worst selling mainline Musou at 331k, it did 164k in its first 2 weeks. Samurai 3 did 160k in two weeks too so its LTD could reach 300k, and still be doing just like its first week told. What you guys can say here is 'hey, its not downright collapsing like I thought it would, its keeping up with every other Musou!'.

 

[bttb]

.

 

[richman555]

The PS3 is a still a few years away to reaching the kind of installed base that the Wii currently enjoys. Id also like to add that the audience/demographic that the big PS3 games cater to is much smaller and more specific.

 

[schuelma]

I think this discussion is missing some Musou perspective. Given the milking, quality and overall image you'd think Musou is a front-loaded series, but it isn't. Its not Nintendo-legs but it has good ones for known 3rd party franchises. See here in japanese (the first entire table is Musou): http://www.kyoto.zaq.ne.jp/dkbkq103/yso/maintitle5/koei.htm

So for example when you say its doing better than the first week told, it actually isn't. Its just keeping up like the others did. Its still doing like the worst main entry Musou ever, worse than a few lesser games too. A good comparison could be the first PS2 Musou, back in 2000. Its the worst selling mainline Musou at 331k, it did 164k in its first 2 weeks. Samurai 3 did 160k in two weeks too so its LTD could reach 300k, and still be doing just like its first week told. What you guys can say here is 'hey, its not downright collapsing like I thought it would, its keeping up with every other Musou!'.

Yeah I noticed that as well. Though I think it is fair to say the numbers for this week (going off of the MC chart) will be higher than usual for the 4th week (almost certainly the holiday effect).

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

According to last week's top 10 chart, the 12/14~12/20 top 30 will be published on Jan 7th. I think the 2 weeks after this will be combined, and a 12/21~01/03 top 30 should be published on Jan 14th.

Famitsu usually combines week 52 with week 1 of the following year. (or week 52 with week 53, when Dec 31st falls on a Sunday)

Jan 7 for Dec 14 - 20 Top30... holidays fucking ruined :/

 

[schuelma]

Jan 7 for Dec 14 - 20 Top30... holidays fucking ruined :/

Jesus. Do we think Famitsu has intentionally shut down the leaks? I feel like sinobi is usually much more reliable than this.

 

[duckroll]

BTW, what is the normal price point for a FF game? The FFXIII price point seems insane. Even if it sells less than usual, SE could be making a lot of money from the high price.

That is the normal FF price point. FFX and FFXII were both 8800yen titles. FFXIII is just one dollar more actually, the other 3 dollars is tax. DQVIII was also a 8800yen title on the PS2.

 

[Onesimos]

I looked at the first week numbers for Final Fantasy XIII and this week's and noticed that second week sales has fallen about 89%. Looking at the number, it seems quite a large drop, but is this typical of a mainline Final Fantasy game?

After four weeks, New Super Mario Bros. Wii is showing its "legs." It would be interesting to see the worldwide numbers for this game once Nintendo releases its quarter report. It is selling well in Japan and North America, but I wonder if it is selling well in other territories.

 

[ksamedi]

That is the normal FF price point. FFX and FFXII were both 8800yen titles. FFXIII is just one dollar more actually, the other 3 dollars is tax. DQVIII was also a 8800yen title on the PS2.

Thanks. Then frankly, I can't find anything positive in the performance of FFXIII. It probably cost SE more to make and it sells less at the same price as previous installments. All we can say is that it did good relative to the PS3's user base.

EDIT: On second thought, maybe we should wait a couple of weeks more and see how the legs fair. I was kind of hoping for longer legs on this one but its too early to tell if it will drop off really fast.

 

[The_lascar]

Jan 7 for Dec 14 - 20 Top30... holidays fucking ruined :/

Jesus. Do we think Famitsu has intentionally shut down the leaks? I feel like sinobi is usually much more reliable than this.

It's every year like this.

 

[Captain Smoker]

I looked at the first week numbers for Final Fantasy XIII and this week's and noticed that second week sales has fallen about 89%. Looking at the number, it seems quite a large drop, but is this typical of a mainline Final Fantasy game?

After four weeks, New Super Mario Bros. Wii is showing its "legs." It would be interesting to see the worldwide numbers for this game once Nintendo releases its quarter report. It is selling well in Japan and North America, but I wonder if it is selling well in other territories.

Yes.

　　　 　　　　1 　　　２ 　　 ３ 　　　 LTD　　 Ratio FW/LTD

FF5.　　　 *472,523 　408,844 　467,630 　2,434,040 　19.4%　　1992/12/06(&#22303
FF6　　　 1,258,668 　440,879 　205,821 　2,546,223 　49.4%　　1994/04/02(&#22303
FF7　　　 2,034,879 　329,740 　167,865 　3,277,766 　62.1%　　1997/01/31(&#37329
FF8　　　 2,504,044 　270,993 　205,779 　3,501,588 　71.5%　　1999/02/11(&#26408
FF9　　　 1,954,421 　328,404 　123,827 　2,707,301 　72.2%　　2000/07/07(&#37329
FF10.　　 1,749,737 　233,429 　*85,703 　2,325,215 　75.3%　　2001/07/19(&#26408
FF10-2　 1,53,5914 　181,798 　*80,295 　1,960,937 　77.4%　　2003/03/13(&#26408
FF12.　　 1,840,397 　217,438 　*91,078 　2,322,541 　79.2%　　2006/03/16(&#26408
FF13.　 　1,501,964 　189,000 　***,*** 　1,690,964 　88.8%　　2009/12/17(&#26408

 

[The_lascar]

I looked at the first week numbers for Final Fantasy XIII and this week's and noticed that second week sales has fallen about 89%. Looking at the number, it seems quite a large drop, but is this typical of a mainline Final Fantasy game?

Week 1 -> Week 2

FFX: - 87 %
FFXII: - 87 %
FFXIII: - 87 %

(Famitsu for FFX, Media Create for FFXII/FFXIII)

Oh, and it's a spin-off, but that's the only FF who was launched at the same time in the year. (12/18, 12/17 for FFXIII)
Dissidia: - 64 % (Media Create)

Looks like you mix Famitsu & Media Create for your 89 %.

 

[Grampasso]

heh it looks like NSMBWii is the Avatar of gaming this year.

always bet on 2D.

Fixed. I'll never stop saying it. Software houses should focus more on 2D concepts, they can still be winners with the right formula, less expensive and more profitable if marketed well.
They just need to believe.
The truth is out there

 

[danielijohnson]

Wow at the Sales-age noobs in here. Some ridiculous statements are being made.:lol

Media Create Dec 21-27

01. / 02. [WII] New Super Mario Bros. Wii (Nintendo) - 506,000 / 2,440,000
08. / 11. [WII] Wii Sports Resort (Nintendo) - 72,000 / 1,568,000
09. / 12. [WII] Taiko no Tatsujin Wii 2 (Bandai Namco) - 64,000 / 200,000
17. / 24. [WII] Mario Kart Wii (Nintendo)
18. / 27. [WII] Momotaro Railway 2010: Sengoku Ishin no Hero Daishuugou! no Maki (Hudson)
19. / 20. [WII] Samurai Warriors 3 (Koei)
25. / 28. [WII] Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Winter Games (Nintendo)

NSMB Wii is doing unbelievable things for Nintendo. Obviously the holidays are a large factor, but NSMB Wii is like the molten gravitational core of Nintendo's planet, pulling all kinds of games towards it.

These kinds of positive jumps in the charts indicate that there is a healthy number of new Wii owners searching through the console's backlog.

 

[charlequin]

Its amazing how quickly the expectations shifted. Months ago many thought NSMB Wii would be lucky to beat FF13 LTD.

But that position was always stupid.

Sales-GAF, how would you try to unscrew the Tales franchise?

Kill it, bury it deep in the ground, bring it back to life when people start to get nostalgic.

 

[charlequin]

Software houses should focus more on 2D concepts, they can still be winners with the right formula

"Be developed and published by Nintendo"?

 

[Dragon]

Fixed. I'll never stop saying it. Software houses should focus more on 2D concepts, they can still be winners with the right formula, less expensive and more profitable if marketed well.
They just need to believe.
The truth is out there

It's friggin' Mario dude.

 

[Grampasso]

"Be developed and published by Nintendo"?

I was actually thinking this while writing... but the amount of success is so outstanting and unprecedented that it can't only be "because it's Mario". Nostalgia doesn't let you sell 4-5m copies of SW just like that.

Spoiler

Or does it?

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

"Be developed and published by Nintendo"?

Nintendo's internally developed games are from another planet when it comes to sales. I don't know if Japanese consumers are hypnotically drawn to them or what.

 

[thestopsign]

I was actually thinking this while writing... but the amount of success is so outstanting and unprecedented that it can't only be "because it's Mario". Nostalgia doesn't let you sell 4-5m copies of SW just like that.

Spoiler

Or does it?

I think this illustrates quite nicely that it does.

 

[danielijohnson]

Yeah 2d is the answer, Muramasa sold millions!:lol

 

[thestopsign]

Nintendo's internally developed games are from another planet when it comes to sales. I don't know if Japanese consumers are hypnotically drawn to them or what.

You haven't done any breakdown of all the Nintendo teams lately have you? I used to love reading those.

 

[Gravijah]

Nintendo's internally developed games are from another planet when it comes to sales. I don't know if consumers are hypnotically drawn to them or what.

fixed

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

Nintendo's internally developed games are from another planet when it comes to sales. I don't know if consumers are hypnotically drawn to them or what.


fixed

Nintendo has found more success in Japan than internationally with some titles like Rhythm Heaven, Tomodachi Collection, English Training. Those all developed internally and sold over a milion in Japan.

I'm not sure if Rhythm Heaven has done as well internationally.

You haven't done any breakdown of all the Nintendo teams lately have you? I used to love reading those.

Working on a big one. Probably post it on wiki too.

 

[Bel Marduk]

Yeah 2d is the answer, Muramasa sold millions!:lol

Except Muramasa wasn't expected to sell millions...however sales were still decent.

2D is still as viable as 3D games.

 

[RaijinFY]

Yes.

　　　 　　　　1 　　　２ 　　 ３ 　　　 LTD　　 Ratio FW/LTD

FF5.　　　 *472,523 　408,844 　467,630 　2,434,040 　19.4%　　1992/12/06(&#22303
FF6　　　 1,258,668 　440,879 　205,821 　2,546,223 　49.4%　　1994/04/02(&#22303
FF7　　　 2,034,879 　329,740 　167,865 　3,277,766 　62.1%　　1997/01/31(&#37329
FF8　　　 2,504,044 　270,993 　205,779 　3,501,588 　71.5%　　1999/02/11(&#26408
FF9　　　 1,954,421 　328,404 　123,827 　2,707,301 　72.2%　　2000/07/07(&#37329
FF10.　　 1,749,737 　233,429 　*85,703 　2,325,215 　75.3%　　2001/07/19(&#26408
FF10-2　 1,53,5914 　181,798 　*80,295 　1,960,937 　77.4%　　2003/03/13(&#26408
FF12.　　 1,840,397 　217,438 　*91,078 　2,322,541 　79.2%　　2006/03/16(&#26408
FF13.　 　1,501,964 　189,000 　***,*** 　1,690,964 　88.8%　　2009/12/17(&#26408

Yeah basically it's more or less equals to FFX-2.

 

[markatisu]

I looked at the first week numbers for Final Fantasy XIII and this week's and noticed that second week sales has fallen about 89%. Looking at the number, it seems quite a large drop, but is this typical of a mainline Final Fantasy game?

After four weeks, New Super Mario Bros. Wii is showing its "legs." It would be interesting to see the worldwide numbers for this game once Nintendo releases its quarter report. It is selling well in Japan and North America, but I wonder if it is selling well in other territories.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=383438

We don't get exact numbers for a lot of Europe but its #1 in Netherlands, France, and Germany, #3 in the UK and Ireland and #4 in Finland, Italy, and Norway.

So yes I think its a safe bet to assume its selling just as well in Europe

 

[danielijohnson]

Except Muramasa wasn't expected to sell millions...however sales were still decent.

2D is still as viable as 3D games.

I never said 2D isn't viable. I am a huge fan of 2D and it certainly still has a solid place in the market.

I just think there is one larger, mustachioed factor at play in NSMB Wii's sales.

 

[thestopsign]

Working on a big one. Probably post it on wiki too.

Good to hear.

 

[schuelma]

Yeah basically it's more or less equals to FFX-2.

I expect it to drop off quicker after next week- this weeks and next weeks sales are probably inflated a bit because of the holidays. The final LTD probably depends on the size of the 2nd shipment. If they ship another 100K it will end up at 1.9M or so, if they ship 200K it will crawl to 2M.

 

[kswiston]

I was actually thinking this while writing... but the amount of success is so outstanting and unprecedented that it can't only be "because it's Mario". Nostalgia doesn't let you sell 4-5m copies of SW just like that.

Spoiler

Or does it?

Borrowing Michan's Mario chart (which is a week out of date):

As many (or more) people buy overpriced enhanced ports of NES Mario games in Japan as they do new 3D entries. Love of 2D Mario in Japan is huge. I think the fact that NSMB Wii A) was a new 2D title on consoles for the first time in forever, B) had a huge ad campaign to boost public awareness, C) is a really great game that can be played by anyone all contributed to the numbers we are seeing.

The 900k+ opening was due to good marketing and anticipation from series fans. The subsequent 400-550k weeks are likely fueled by word of mouth (in addition to the other factors).