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Media Create sales: May 24-30

Sage00

Once And Future Member
Oct 29, 2006
6,485
0
0
Japan
Bizzyb said:
Just you dude. That's what it did in ONE Week. In one month it could easily reach 1mil. 1 mil in one month in nothing to sneeze at these days, esp in Japan.
Not a chance.

schuelma said:
After the awesomeness of last holiday, this year is such a bore.

Hopefully 3DS v (maybe) PSP2 will liven things up.
I dunno, I think the holiday software and its associated hardware bumps were all pretty predictable (of course we always say this in retrospect :p ), predicting something like Xenoblade or the new ACE game is more fun since they really could do anything.
 

justchris

Member
Dec 13, 2006
3,325
0
0
Nashville, TN
Kilrogg said:
Also, assuming Nintendo is really trying to get people to buy and enjoy 3D Mario on the At least that's the only explanation I can find to justify making a straight sequel (again, talking business here), but I'm willing to hear other theories.
This is actually pretty easy, and I can give you three good reasons for a direct sequel to SMG.

1) 3D Mario and 2D Mario appeal to different market segments. Nintendo's goal is to appeal to as many market segments as possible to maximize profits. There is a core audience that wants 3D Mario, and Nintendo has to serve that audience to keep them on their console. While there is a lot of overlap with the 2D Mario market, it's by no means 100%.

2) Buying and consumption habits of the core market versus the casual market. The casual market can purchase one game a year and, because their individual gaming sessions tend to be shorter, they can play that same game all year long. The core market tends to spend more time in a gaming session with a product, and therefore tend to exhaust it more quickly, leading them to make more purchases in a year. The core market is a better target for a sequel than the casual market, because the casual market takes longer to exhaust the appeal of their existing purchase.

3) They still had ideas left over from the original Galaxy, and they just wanted to make it. It's not like it was actually going to lose them money, and I suspect Nintendo will let them make whatever game they want as long as there's a reasonable expectation of profit.
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Oct 24, 2007
49,170
0
1,010
Vinci said:
I think they just don't have any other ideas. Galaxy's design was meant to streamline the experience as much as possible while keeping some complexity in how you interact with the environment. The DVD, the tutorials (good lord, we need tutorials, don't we?), and the Cosmic Guide are just ways to trick their way into a larger market.
What does this even mean? The game actively expanding on the themes and mechanics of 1. The level design isnt as focused thematically but from a gameplay standpoint its equal to or a step up from 2.

Also you are never gonna get over the inherent complexity of 3D, especially not when you start throwing in spherical bodies, massive perspective shifts and gravity changes. And to be honest, Galaxy's design could go a lot more complex, its just that the design philosophy seems to be variety rather than focusing on maxing out specific mechanics and objectives.
 

ZoddGutts

Member
Jul 18, 2009
9,230
3
685
Los Angeles
neutralgamer02 said:
PSP 25,054
PS3 20,987
Wii 20,476
DSi LL 16,267
DSi 10,324
Xbox 360 3,546
DS Lite 2,961
PS2 1,463
PSP go 1,232
Would have thought with Galaxy 2 out it would have put the Wii above the PS3 guess not.
 

donny2112

Member
Apr 18, 2005
18,797
1
0
ZoddGutts said:
Would have thought with Galaxy 2 out it would have put the Wii above the PS3 guess not.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Xenoblade cause more of a "bump" for Wii than SMG2. That game, at least, could draw in people not already on the system.
 

charlequin

Banned
Oct 19, 2005
26,635
1
0
BowieZ said:
There has never been a 3D Mario game where you are simply entering a level, getting to the flagpole at the end, moving to the next level, getting to the flagpole at the end, moving on, World 1, World 2, World 3, blah blah, Bowser's Castle, bam!, ending.
Super Mario Galaxy 2 is close enough to this for government work.

neutralgamer02 said:
PSP 25,054
PS3 20,987
Wii 20,476
DSi LL 16,267
DSi 10,324
Xbox 360 3,546
DS Lite 2,961
PS2 1,463
PSP go 1,232
I remember things looked pretty shitty in Japan circa this time 2004, before the DS and PSP showed up, but I'm having trouble contextualizing whether these current shitty sales are comparable or not.
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Oct 24, 2007
49,170
0
1,010
charlequin said:
Super Mario Galaxy 2 is close enough to this for government work.



I remember things looked pretty shitty in Japan circa this time 2004, before the DS and PSP showed up, but I'm having trouble contextualizing whether these current shitty sales are comparable or not.
Just replace star with flagpole. Its practically the same thing.
 

RevoDS

Junior Member
Apr 21, 2007
3,965
0
0
Canada
Vinci said:
I think this is putting his words in an unfair light. His point, at least as I read it, wasn't that they should stop 'covering their bases' with the 3D Mario fanbase, but that it was illogical and bizarre that they stopped 'covering their bases' with the much larger 2D Mario one.

They took 2D Mario games off of consoles for 18 years. Think about that. And it was 15 years between SMW and NSMB DS. And yes, that was immensely stupid.
15 years may be a long time between two games, but stuff like this is much easier to say in retrospect than it would have been at the time.

Circa 1995, 3D was the next big thing. It wasn't a graphical and gameplay style that would supplement 2D gaming; it would instead come to replace it. Therefore, everyone (not only Nintendo) gave up on making 2D games in favor of "the future", 3D. Super Mario 64 didn't sell anywhere near the 2D Marios, but that also correlated with Nintendo's fall as leader of the console space; it's perfectly understandable that they would attribute the difference to the console rather than the game itself. It is nowadays agreed that 3D and 2D Marios have a completely different audience, but there was no real indication or proof of that at the time.

All it took was one game to prove that it was the game that's not as appealing. That game, as it turns out, was New Super Mario Bros. Granted, they could've tried something similar much sooner, but they didn't and they had their reasons for it. And I think calling them stupid for that, out of context and with a lot of knowledge that they didn't have at the time, is, in itself, very stupid.
 

Kilrogg

paid requisite penance
Jan 4, 2007
9,256
0
1,175
Okay, I meant to continue posting yesterday and actually had a post ready, but for some reason my internet connection stopped working.

First, sorry for all the mess I caused. Donny, you don't have to be mad. I don't know why, but you're misreading what I said. I'm not advocating the death of 3D Mario, far from it. I'm saying that, if Nintendo believes it has the potential to join the ranks of 2D Mario and Mario Kart, then I'm afraid the current formula won't cut it, and no amount of tutorials and cosmic guides will help them. I don't know what it is that should be changed exactly, but given what they've achieved with Mario Kart DS and Wii, I say it's worth trying harder. By the way, charlequin, I agree with what you said about the DVD. Nintendo said "sure, why not?" and went with it.

Where I think you (charlequin) and I disagree is that you seem to be viewing 3D Mario's hurdles solely in terms of accessibility (or lack thereof). I agree that it's necessarily harder to control a character on a 3D plane than on a 2D plane. However, my point is that I suspect there's more to 3D Mario's "problems" than mere approachability. I have a hard time believing that accessibility alone causes 3D Mario to sell millions and millions less than its 2D and racing counterparts. It's not even like successful 3D platformers are unheard of. Heck, Japan, for all its "dislike" of 3D Mario, had no problem buying Crash Bandicoot and its sequels back in the day. The game had practically everything going against it: it was a new game, from the West, and it wasn't on the console where 3D platformers had a standard-bearer to help them strive. The only upside was that at least it was on the leading console.

I'm sure that accessibility is responsible for some of the sales discrepancy, but it's only one parametre among others. Maybe there's just a host of aspects people simply don't like about 3D Mario games as they exist? Maybe they don't like their take on the Mushroom Kingdom (or near-complete ignorance of the MK in the case of SMS and SMG)? Or the pacing? The physics? The structure? The lack of a full multiplayer mode (it's all the rage these days)? Something else I can't even think of? A bit of everything? Not saying it's one particular aspect over the others, but that there has to be more to it than accessibility and nothing else.

On the other hand, if Nintendo is fine with the state of 3D Mario from a creative and sales standpoint, more power to them. As long as they don't keep pumping out direct sequels to Galaxy but make each episode unique, I'm fine with it. If it's the case, then I suspect, like I said earlier (and charlequin agreed with it), that Galaxy 2 was made as a way to keep the fans happy or whatever. I just wish they had spent their energy on a new 3D Mario (as in, not a Galaxy sequel), but that's just me :p. I don't think it's too unreasonable to expect considering it's the standard they'd set up until SMG2.
 
Apr 17, 2005
6,476
0
1,340
Famitsu first day sales (azalyn leak)

[PSP] Fairy Tail: Portable Guild (Konami) - 20.500 (65%)
[PSP] Hisshou Pachinko Pachislot Kouryaku Series Portable Vol. 1: CR Neon Genesis Evangelion - Tamashii no Kiseki (D3 Publisher) - 10.100 (49%)
[PSP] Clannad: Mitsumi Mamoru Sakamichi de - Joukan (Prototype) - 6.400 (58%)
[NDS] Hisshou Pachinko Pachislot Kouryaku Series DS Vol. 5: CR Neon Genesis Evangelion - Tamashii no Kiseki (D3 Publisher) - 5.900 (29%)
[NDS] Kaidan Restaurant: Ura Menu 100-Sen (Bandai Namco) - 4.200 (27%)
[360] W.L.O. Sekai Renai Kikousen (5pb.) - NE 800 (26%) - LE 1.400 (38%)
[PS3] Katamari Damacy: Tribute [PlayStation 3 the Best] (Bandai Namco) - 800 (16%)

Yeah, I was wondering where were the eva pachislot given the new movie, here they are!
Not bad for Fairy Tail, but pretty uninteresting week overall.
 

Zen

Banned
Jun 24, 2005
13,050
0
0
Kilrogg said:
Okay, I meant to continue posting yesterday and actually had a post ready, but for some reason my internet connection stopped working.

First, sorry for all the mess I caused. Donny, you don't have to be mad. I don't know why, but you're misreading what I said. I'm not advocating the death of 3D Mario, far from it. I'm saying that, if Nintendo believes it has the potential to join the ranks of 2D Mario and Mario Kart, then I'm afraid the current formula won't cut it, and no amount of tutorials and cosmic guides will help them. I don't know what it is that should be changed exactly, but given what they've achieved with Mario Kart DS and Wii, I say it's worth trying harder. By the way, charlequin, I agree with what you said about the DVD. Nintendo said "sure, why not?" and went with it.

Where I think you (charlequin) and I disagree is that you seem to be viewing 3D Mario's hurdles solely in terms of accessibility (or lack thereof). I agree that it's necessarily harder to control a character on a 3D plane than on a 2D plane. However, my point is that I suspect there's more to 3D Mario's "problems" than mere approachability. I have a hard time believing that accessibility alone causes 3D Mario to sell millions and millions less than its 2D and racing counterparts. It's not even like successful 3D platformers are unheard of. Heck, Japan, for all its "dislike" of 3D Mario, had no problem buying Crash Bandicoot and its sequels back in the day. The game had practically everything going against it: it was a new game, from the West, and it wasn't on the console where 3D platformers had a standard-bearer to help them strive. The only upside was that at least it was on the leading console.

I'm sure that accessibility is responsible for some of the sales discrepancy, but it's only one parametre among others. Maybe there's just a host of aspects people simply don't like about 3D Mario games as they exist? Maybe they don't like their take on the Mushroom Kingdom (or near-complete ignorance of the MK in the case of SMS and SMG)? Or the pacing? The physics? The structure? The lack of a full multiplayer mode (it's all the rage these days)? Something else I can't even think of? A bit of everything? Not saying it's one particular aspect over the others, but that there has to be more to it than accessibility and nothing else.

On the other hand, if Nintendo is fine with the state of 3D Mario from a creative and sales standpoint, more power to them. As long as they don't keep pumping out direct sequels to Galaxy but make each episode unique, I'm fine with it. If it's the case, then I suspect, like I said earlier (and charlequin agreed with it), that Galaxy 2 was made as a way to keep the fans happy or whatever. I just wish they had spent their energy on a new 3D Mario (as in, not a Galaxy sequel), but that's just me :p. I don't think it's too unreasonable to expect considering it's the standard they'd set up until SMG2.
Why does every game need to sell 20 million copies WW?
 

spwolf

Member
Feb 15, 2007
16,283
0
0
charlequin said:
Super Mario Galaxy 2 is close enough to this for government work.



I remember things looked pretty shitty in Japan circa this time 2004, before the DS and PSP showed up, but I'm having trouble contextualizing whether these current shitty sales are comparable or not.
arent the sales up in Japan for both Wii and PS3 this year? Considerably so, if my memory did not let me down...
 

gerg

Member
Dec 6, 2008
7,278
0
0
Kilrogg said:
It's not even like successful 3D platformers are unheard of. Heck, Japan, for all its "dislike" of 3D Mario, had no problem buying Crash Bandicoot and its sequels back in the day. The game had practically everything going against it: it was a new game, from the West, and it wasn't on the console where 3D platformers had a standard-bearer to help them strive. The only upside was that at least it was on the leading console.
It depends on how you view Crash Bandicoot's sales: on the one hand, its more successful than a 3D Mario title; on the other hand, it much less successful than either NSMB or NSMB Wii.

Part of what's so good about the way that Nintendo is handling the Mario series now is, like charlequin has said, that it has been able to create two distinct series within the franchise with very little overlap. I don't think that having a Crash Bandicoot-lite series alongside 2D Mario would perform as well in that regard.
 

Celine

Member
Oct 4, 2009
12,568
9
830
gerg said:
It depends on how you view Crash Bandicoot's sales: on the one hand, it sold more than a 3D Mario title; on the other hand, it sold much less than either NSMB or NSMB Wii.
I thought that the best selling Crash got about 6.5 million in sales WW...
better than SMS but that's it.

EDIT:
and even if you are talking only about japanese sales the point remains.
 

wrowa

Member
Jul 26, 2006
14,351
1
1,170
Germany
Kurosaki Ichigo said:
Yeah, I was wondering where were the eva pachislot given the new movie, here they are!
I'm still waiting for my Persona: Evangelion. But I guess the odds that the third impact will come and destroy our world are higher than the odds that such a game will ever be released.
 

BowieZ

Banned
Jun 2, 2009
14,066
0
0
www.youtube.com
donny2112 said:
So you want the game to be a mess. Got it.

Maybe you meant something like Super Paper Mario, but what you described was a golf course (course next to course next to course) where you can change levels sideways at will, i.e. "a mess."
Indeed, the sport of golf is a mess! What ever got into me?

charlequin said:
Super Mario Galaxy 2 is close enough to this for government work.
HK-47 said:
Just replace star with flagpole. Its practically the same thing.
It's really not. If you think SMB1 (and/or 3 and/or World) is well represented by SMG2, just with stars instead of flagpoles, then all we can do is agree to disagree :)
 

Road

Member
Jan 21, 2008
7,602
0
0
Brazil
sites.google.com
Dengeki Sales, May 24 - 30, 2010:

01 / 00 [WII] Super Mario Galaxy 2 (Nintendo) - 354,440 / 354,440
02 / 00 [NDS] Super Robot Taisen OG Saga: Masou Kishin - The Lord of Elemental (Bandai Namco Games) - 83,142 / 83,142
03 / 02 [NDS] Dragon Quest Monsters: Joker 2 (Square Enix) - 53,105 / 1,120,860
04 / 00 [NDS] Saka Tsuku DS World Challenge 2010 (Sega) - 51,716 / 51,716
05 / 01 [PS3] Lost Planet 2 (Capcom) - 36,129 / 118,788
06 / 00 [NDS] Medarot DS Kabuto Version (Rocket Company) - 31,725 / 31,725
07 / 04 [PSP] Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker (Konami) - 30,253 / 674,088
08 / 00 [NDS] Medarot DS Kuwagata Version (Rocket Company) - 26,519 / 26,519
09 / 03 [PS3] World Soccer Winning Eleven 2010: Aoki Samurai no Chousen - 25,550 / 83,244
10 / 08 [WII] New Super Mario Bros. Wii (Nintendo) - 16,813 / 3,851,272
11 / 11 [NDS] Tomodachi Collection (Nintendo) - 15,233 / 3,145,119
12 / 06 [PSP] World Soccer Winning Eleven 2010: Aoki Samurai no Chousen (Konami) - 14,939 / 38,570
13 / 13 [WII] Wii Fit Plus (Nintendo) - 11,427 / 1,918,121
14 / 12 [WII] Mario Kart Wii (Nintendo) - 11,073 / 2,739,058
15 / 00 [360] Alan Wake (Microsoft) - 11,007 / 11,007
16 / 09 [PS2] World Soccer Winning Eleven 2010: Aoki Samurai no Chousen (Konami) - 9,371 / 25,190
17 / 05 [360] Lost Planet 2 (Capcom) - 9,215 / 40,127
18 / 00 [PSP] Blaze Union (Atlus) - 9,025 / 9,025
19 / 00 [360] DeathSmiles IIX: Makai no Merry Christmas (Cave) - 8,793 / 8,793
20 / 18 [PSP] Monster Hunter Portable 2nd G (PSP the Best Reprint) (Capcom) - 8,176 / 326,392



Other Software (first week / LTD):
[WII] Super Mario Galaxy (Nintendo) - 257,000 / 1,002,000



Notes:

1) Sell-through:
- [WII] Super Mario Galaxy 2 ~60%
- [NDS] Super Robot Taisen OG... ~85%

2) May 2010 market (05/03~05/30):
- Hardware - 441,000 units (-11.7% YOY)
- Software - 3,559,000 units (+1.2% YOY)



Code:
Hardware |  This Week |  Last Week |    YTD     |    LTD
------------------------------------------------------------
NDS      |     30,831 |     25,042 |  1,117,983 | 30,082,680
PSP      |     28,728 |     24,080 |  1,119,468 | 14,508,860
WII      |     20,986 |     17,373 |    853,012 | 10,398,448
PS3      |     20,601 |     18,359 |    748,607 |  5,233,305
360      |      3,316 |      4,213 |     93,026 |  1,301,681
PS2      |      1,459 |      1,158 |     	| 	
------------------------------------------------------------
Total    |    105,921 |     90,225 |
http://research.ascii.jp/elem/000/000/047/47315/index.html
http://ascii.jp/elem/000/000/527/527005/
http://news.dengeki.com/elem/000/000/267/267294/

May 17 - 23, 2010
 

duckroll

Member
Jun 7, 2004
114,759
2
0
38
[NDS] Super Robot Taisen OG Saga: Masou Kishin - The Lord of Elemental (Bandai Namco Games) - 53,105 / 1,120,860

Wow, I never thought SRW was that popular. :eek:
 
wrowa said:
I'm still waiting for my Persona: Evangelion. But I guess the odds that the third impact will come and destroy our world are higher than the odds that such a game will ever be released.
Generally it's extremely hard to get someone to invest a lot of money into an IP they have to pay a licensing fee for.

duckroll said:
[NDS] Super Robot Taisen OG Saga: Masou Kishin - The Lord of Elemental (Bandai Namco Games) - 53,105 / 1,120,860

Wow, I never thought SRW was that popular. :eek:
And that's only 85% of the shipment to boot.
 

jay

Member
Oct 25, 2006
9,198
0
1,000
velvet_nitemare said:
It's very simple math. Say there are four weeks in a month.

Week 1 - 340.000
Week 2 - 680,000
Week 3 - 102,000,000
Week 4 - 136,000,000

I think he is lowballing it at only a million and at this trajectory it'll break 17 million in Japan alone after a year.
 

TheKingsCrown

Banned
Aug 25, 2005
6,340
0
0
New York City
jay said:
It's very simple math. Say there are four weeks in a month.

Week 1 - 340.000
Week 2 - 680,000
Week 3 - 102,000,000
Week 4 - 136,000,000

I think he is lowballing it at only a million and at this trajectory it'll break 17 million in Japan alone after a year.
I think there may be some problems with the mathz in this post.

Edit: :lol
 

gerg

Member
Dec 6, 2008
7,278
0
0
jay said:
It's very simple math. Say there are four weeks in a month.

Week 1 - 340.000
Week 2 - 680,000
Week 3 - 102,000,000
Week 4 - 136,000,000

I think he is lowballing it at only a million and at this trajectory it'll break 17 million in Japan alone after a year.
I'm trying to work out if you intentionally modelled everyone in Japan buying the game at least once.... :lol
 

onken

Member
Dec 15, 2008
7,731
16
850
some place.. far away. yes, that will do
jay said:
It's very simple math. Say there are four weeks in a month.

Week 1 - 340.000
Week 2 - 680,000
Week 3 - 102,000,000
Week 4 - 136,000,000

I think he is lowballing it at only a million and at this trajectory it'll break 17 million in Japan alone after a year.
But it already hit 102m in week 3!
 

Vinnk

Member
Mar 10, 2006
3,203
0
0
Japan
www.famicomdojo.tv
Stumpokapow said:
good point

i just checked my famitsu sheet, apparently both pandemonium games were released in japan, but i have literally no sales data for them. none for tomba either. :p
Wasn't it called "Magical Hoppers" in Japan or am I thinking of something else?
 

Chris1964

Sales-Age Genius
Dec 17, 2008
11,738
0
0
31. / 29. [NDS] Pokemon Heart Gold / Soul Silver (Pokemon Co.)
32. / 25. [PS3] 2010 FIFA World Cup: South Africa (Electronic Arts)
33. / 22. [NDS] Pokemon Ranger: Tracks of Light (Pokemon Co.)
34. / 00. [PS2] Pachitte Chonmage Tatsujin 16: Pachinko Hissatsu Shigotojin III (Hackberry)
35. / 31. [NDS] Dragon Quest IX: Sentinels of the Starry Skies [Ultimate Hits] (Square Enix)
36. / 00. [PSP] Secret Game Portable (Yeti)
37. / 37. [NDS] The Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks (Nintendo)
38. / 00. [PSP] So-Ra-No-Wo-To: Otome no Gojuusou (Compile Heart)
39. / 33. [PSP] Hakuouki: Yuugi Roku (Idea Factory)
40. / 00. [NDS] Sekai no Hate Made Itte Q! Chinjuu Hunter Mono no Daibouken (Kamui)
41. / 26. [NDS] Trick DS-han: Kakushi Kami no Sumukan (Konami)
42. / 30. [PS3] Pro Baseball Spirits 2010 (Konami)
43. / 43. [NDS] Mario Kart DS (Nintendo)
44. / 36. [WII] One Piece: Unlimited Cruise 2 - Awakening of the Hero [Everyone's Recommendation Selection] (Bandai Namco)
45. / 45. [PS3] Demon's Souls [PlayStation 3 the Best] (SCE)
46. / 38. [NDS] Inazuma Eleven 2: Threat of the Invaders - Fire / Blizzard (Level 5)
47. / 20. [PSP] Motto Nuga-Cel! (Idea Factory)
48. / 39. [WII] Taiko Drum Master Wii 2 (Bandai Namco)
49. / 00. [PS2] Desert Kingdom (Idea Factory)
50. / 34. [PSP] Machi-Ing Maker 3 x Tousouchuu (D3 Publisher)

00. / 00. [ALL] Weekly Software Sales (All Publishers) - 1.121.885 / 23.273.615 (+52%)



NDS - 16
PSP - 11
WII - 8
PS3 - 7
PS2 - 5
360 - 3


HARDWARE

Code:
__________________________________________________________________
|System |  This Week  |  Last Week  |        YTD  |         LTD  |
------------------------------------------------------------------
|  NDS  |     29.552  |     26.145  |    961.118  |  30.240.198  |
|  PSP  |     26.286  |     23.313  |    983.095  |  14.726.183  |
|  PS3  |     20.987  |     19.075  |    662.868  |   5.164.235  |
|  WII  |     20.476  |     18.465  |    719.415  |  10.324.614  |
|  360  |      3.546  |      4.656  |     72.753  |   1.282.425  |
|  PS2  |      1.463  |      1.175  |     38.073  |  21.648.250  |
------------------------------------------------------------------
| DSiLL |     16.267  |     14.108  |    501.721  |   1.008.628  |
|  DSi  |     10.324  |      9.356  |    363.201  |   4.702.147  |
|  DSL  |      2.961  |      2.681  |     96.196  |  17.943.952  |
------------------------------------------------------------------
|  PSP  |     25.054  |     22.462  |    949.784  |  14.617.117  |
| PSPgo |      1.232  |        851  |     33.311  |     109.066  |
------------------------------------------------------------------
Vinnk said:
Wasn't it called "Magical Hoppers" in Japan or am I thinking of something else?
It was but even with that name it didn't chart:p
 

Chris1964

Sales-Age Genius
Dec 17, 2008
11,738
0
0
spwolf said:
arent the sales up in Japan for both Wii and PS3 this year? Considerably so, if my memory did not let me down...
MCreate Hardware as of week 21
Code:
         WII     PS3     360       NDS       PSP     PS2     TOTAL
2009 527.564 535.659 197.611 1.404.819 1.018.907 113.397 3.797.957
2010 719.415 662.868  72.753   961.118   983.095  38.073 3.437.322
MCreate Software as of week 21

2009 [ALL] Weekly Software Sales (All Publishers) - 22.487.749
2010 [ALL] Weekly Software Sales (All Publishers) - 23.273.615

Things aren't so bas as people make them look. DS drops in price at June 16 and it should cover some of the lost ground in hardware this year.
 

charlequin

Banned
Oct 19, 2005
26,635
1
0
Kilrogg said:
I have a hard time believing that accessibility alone causes 3D Mario to sell millions and millions less than its 2D and racing counterparts.
Wait, really? But that's, like... the entirety of Nintendo's whole new market approach these days. :lol

3D gameplay, I'd say, fundamentally falls victim to what I've called the accumulated-knowledge trap -- the same issue that the controllers built to enable 3D gameplay have. 2D gameplay uses a direct and unchanging correspondence of four directions on a pad to four directions on the TV, and then, generally, a limited number of buttons to perform actions.

3D is a huge conceptual leap from there. You have to understand that the stick corresponds to directions on the ground that are based on the current camera -- i.e. they're non-fixed and they'll change as your view of the action changes. Many people just can't make the conceptual leap

(This is why, I think, certain genres translate mucn more easily to 3D. TPS, RPGs with MMO-style control/navigation, and racing all have an advantage that platformers don't: they all tend to come with a fixed or semi-fixed perspective behind the character, so that there's no conceptual leap required -- the stick always behaves "the same" regardless of what's happening onscreen.)

I mean, to me, accessibility is really the biggest possible obstacle to growing the sales of a title you could possibly have. If five million people think a game looks cool, but only one million of them can figure out how to play it well enough to enjoy themselves, that's really only one million potential sales.

Generally, in order to have the kind of mega-hits Nintendo is capable of, everything needs to be right. Any one singular obstacle is enough to keep the series from blowing up to those heights. To my mind, Nintendo's entire strategy this generation is based around the idea that an inaccessible HCI stunts sales, so it only makes sense to me that the sales cap for a series with a difficult or advanced interface is much lower than for one that's extremely accessible.

It's not even like successful 3D platformers are unheard of. Heck, Japan, for all its "dislike" of 3D Mario, had no problem buying Crash Bandicoot and its sequels back in the day.
Aren't we still talking like... one million copies, though? It's pretty obvious that a 3D platformer can hit 1m since two have done that this generation, but there's a huge gap between 1m and 5m.

I just wish they had spent their energy on a new 3D Mario (as in, not a Galaxy sequel), but that's just me :p
I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that even targeting the same Wii hardware, a reinvented 3D Mario game would probably take literally twice or more the budget and development time of SMG2 -- no asset reuse, maybe no engine reuse, new control tweaks, new camera development, tons of prototyping stages to work out whatever new "hook" they're using, etc.

Basically, I can't imagine them having such a thing ready for release on the current Wii system anyway, even if they'd started it at the tail end of SMG1 development (maybe they could have it as a last hurrah, but in that case they'd probably push it back to the next system anyway) so they might as well squeeze out an obviously profitable sequel and either put a different team on skunkworks for "3D Mario Next" or split off a small part of EAD Tokyo to think about how to move that genre forward while the rest of the team polishes off SMG2.

BowieZ said:
It's really not.
I think it's pretty well established at this point that your opinion on these matters is way too disconnected from how everyone else perceives reality as to be of little use in analyzing these games. :lol

SMG2 is the only 3D Mario title that applies the SMB3/SMW template exactly. There's no hub. You walk around on a mostly-linear world map. Each world has stars that, even moreso than SMG1, have you proceed on a straight, linear path from your starting point to the goal. Sometimes you break off and go in a different direction to unlock a secret star instead, exactly like you do to unlock alternate exits in SMW. It's the same freakin' thing.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
May 21, 2006
17,232
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Vinnk said:
Wasn't it called "Magical Hoppers" in Japan or am I thinking of something else?
yes, i tried both names. my psx ltd file came from the always useful captain smoker. the document has 1219 games listed and was dated april 2009. maybe someone with a more comprehensive document, if anyone out there has one, might have the numbers?
 

Vinci

Danish
Oct 12, 2007
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donny2112 said:
And they haven't been abandoning 2-D Mario for years, either. He's shown up in RPGs (the Bowser stages in Paper Mario: TTYD needed a full game made out of them) and in remakes (i.e. keeping the 2-D branding in the public eye; the lack of the 3rd and 4th series SMB3 cards with new SMB3 levels is still a crime against humanity).
I'm not talking about Mario, the character himself, in 2D - I'm talking about that style of game. That type of Mario game. A 2D Mario appearing in games that aren't like traditional 2D Mario games isn't exactly throwing anyone a bone here, man, even when they're great - as TTYD was.

HK-47 said:
What does this even mean? The game actively expanding on the themes and mechanics of 1. The level design isnt as focused thematically but from a gameplay standpoint its equal to or a step up from 2.

Also you are never gonna get over the inherent complexity of 3D, especially not when you start throwing in spherical bodies, massive perspective shifts and gravity changes. And to be honest, Galaxy's design could go a lot more complex, its just that the design philosophy seems to be variety rather than focusing on maxing out specific mechanics and objectives.
Spherical worlds helped Nintendo to remove the necessity of camera control from the Galaxy games. I'd imagine that should help streamline one's approach to playing the title, in that you are able to focus on movement without having to bother with whether the angle is right or making adjustments at the same time depending on the scenario. That's one of the inherent complexities of 3D gaming compared to 2D gaming: The necessity of not only keeping track of what your character is doing movement-wise, but making sure that the camera allows you to see what your character is doing at all times.

And you basically explained what I meant by 'still retaining complexity' with your description of the gravity changes and perspective shifts. Yes, this is hard - but it would be far worse if they had to control the camera angle as a foundational part of the mechanics.

RevoDS said:
15 years may be a long time between two games, but stuff like this is much easier to say in retrospect than it would have been at the time.
Nintendo has never completely adjusted Pokemon's design or viewpoint to fit evolving standards, why was 2D Mario treated any differently? Why was the same consideration for 2D Mario's massive fanbase non-existent?
 

Chris1964

Sales-Age Genius
Dec 17, 2008
11,738
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Stumpokapow said:
yes, i tried both names. my psx ltd file came from the always useful captain smoker. the document has 1219 games listed and was dated april 2009. maybe someone with a more comprehensive document, if anyone out there has one, might have the numbers?

Chris1964 said:
It was but even with that name it didn't chart:p
It didn't chart anywhere, week, month, half-year or year.
 

BowieZ

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Jun 2, 2009
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charlequin said:
SMG2 is the only 3D Mario title that applies the SMB3/SMW template exactly. There's no hub. You walk around on a mostly-linear world map. Each world has stars that, even moreso than SMG1, have you proceed on a straight, linear path from your starting point to the goal. Sometimes you break off and go in a different direction to unlock a secret star instead, exactly like you do to unlock alternate exits in SMW. It's the same freakin' thing.
I understand this, however, there are still many elements that 2D Mario gets "right" so to speak that SMG2 doesn't, and I only say this in terms of how it may be off-putting to larger audiences. (AGAIN - 9 million worldwide for SMG1 is fantastic and AGAIN - it's only an opinion.)

- Starts with story and cutscenes (yes, they're playable cutscenes, yes it's an improvement on SMG1 etc etc), whereas SMB1 puts you in 1-1 immediately, SMB2USA simply lets you choose a character, and SMB3 has an opening title screen that gives you a couple of quick options, and sends you immediately to a very very basic user-friendly map with no tutorials on how to progress every 10 seconds. Seriously, Lubba adds as much hindrance as he does assistance.

- Has a hub. Total waste of time. It was a novelty in SM64 but clearly throws people off. Even the Starship Mario, even if it seems a non-factor to veteran 3D players, it is surely disorienting to the general player. General audiences surely don't have a knee-jerk reaction to jump on the steering wheel of the hub, fly to the world map etc. They would get confused by this added layer, no?

- Has you choosing paths on the hub, on the world map, on the stars you would like to do... too many choices away from pure gameplay.

- Has weakly defined "worlds" with no strong sense of progression. World 1 in SMB3 is Grass Land, you wanna get to the end of Grass Land to the Castle you can see in the corner with the "Help Me!" slogan. World 1 of SMG2 is "The Great Space Adventure Begins!" and you want to... err.. collect stars, that move you forward on this map, to... a dig-themed galaxy... that gives you access to... a cloudy forest... oh, there's a castle up ahead... :/ there is very little overwhelming sense of impetus to move forward, unless you are a seasoned player, appreciate level design, and "can't wait to see what exciting gameplay mechanics are used in the next galaxy!!!!!" -- that isn't normal impetus.

- Similar to the above, game uses star slings to travel between jarringly disconnected level sections (half the time). In the original games, you had pipes and vines, but they directly connected you from one section to the next.

- Flagpoles and a Bowser Castle at the end of every level in SMB1, NSMB DS and NSMBW constantly remind the player that they are on an adventure to beat Bowser. Stars to power a face-shaped spaceship is so abstract, even for Mario universe standards.

- The above points mean that sense of adventure (literal, from one place to the next) is somewhat lost.

- Gameplay is built on bizarre spherical planets, gravity effects, other novel mechanics etc. Yes, these are innovative to seasoned players and critically acclaimed, but are probably confusing to many people. Hey, I have no studies to back this up, I admit that it's an assumption.

My point is that it's possible that Nintendo may want to -- and also that they can -- address these dissimilarities in future Mario games. (My other point is that, if I were them -- and I'm not -- I would still attempt to include explorative elements, just so that they were optional and not at the sacrifice of the streamlined forward moving experience.)

charlequin said:
I think it's pretty well established at this point that your opinion on these matters is way too disconnected from how everyone else perceives reality as to be of little use in analyzing these games. :lol
While me arguing this might be insane and hilarious to you, I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who thinks this way. Can we keep the discussion above board without the :lol ?
 

gerg

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Vinci said:
Nintendo has never completely adjusted Pokemon's design or viewpoint to fit evolving standards, why was 2D Mario treated any differently? Why was the same consideration for 2D Mario's massive fanbase non-existent?
Perhaps because Pokemon was at home on portable consoles, and there "evolving standards" were much less pronounced than on home consoles? Even then, Nintendo is seemingly adjusting Pokemon's design to fit those evolving standards with the 3D perspectives being introduced in Pokemon Black and White, although admittedly that is a much smaller change than the step from 2D to 3D gameplay.
 

Vinci

Danish
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gerg said:
Perhaps because Pokemon was at home on portable consoles, and there "evolving standards" were much less pronounced than on home consoles? Even then, Nintendo is seemingly adjusting Pokemon's design to fit those evolving standards with the 3D perspectives being introduced in Pokemon Black and White, although admittedly that is a much smaller change than the step from 2D to 3D gameplay.
I just don't buy the whole, "They couldn't have known there would be an impact on the game's audience" excuse. This company does more testing than virtually any other; they never once, not a single time, had a person say that they don't like 3D Mario titles and would prefer Nintendo make new 2D ones? It took nearly two decades for them to finally come to this realization that, hey, maybe there's still a market for a 2D Mario game?

I think Nintendo was simply being arrogant and felt they would be able to bridge the gap rather than just giving people want they wanted.
 

gerg

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Vinci said:
I just don't buy the whole, "They couldn't have known there would be an impact on the game's audience" excuse. This company does more testing than virtually any other; they never once, not a single time, had a person say that they don't like 3D Mario titles and would prefer Nintendo make new 2D ones? It took nearly two decades for them to finally come to this realization that, hey, maybe there's still a market for a 2D Mario game?

I think Nintendo was simply being arrogant and felt they would be able to bridge the gap rather than just giving people want they wanted.
Well, I just wanted to give an answer to the question you asked. : P

But, like everything, I think the abandonment of 2D Mario was the result of a combination of factors rather than a specific, overriding one.

For example, up until the DS and the Wii Nintendo did want to compete directly with Sony, Sega, and later Microsoft - when they're championing large, 3D environments, it makes sense to take one of your largest franchises and convert it to 3D, too. I imagine that a part of the decision was also the result of Miyamoto's own interest in making a 3D Mario game. (Although, before Shikamaru Ninja beats me up, I don't want to overstate his importance in that decision-making process, or either that he's particularly disinterested in making any of the games Nintendo would ever conceivably make, either.)

Not to deny that Nintendo's cut off their nose to spite their face before, but when you really are making a concerted an effort to compete with Sony and Microsoft what you can do not to compete with them isn't going to be of much importance.
 

donny2112

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Kilrogg said:
I'm saying that, if Nintendo believes it has the potential to join the ranks of 2D Mario and Mario Kart, then I'm afraid the current formula won't cut it, and no amount of tutorials and cosmic guides will help them.
That's fine. I have no problem recognizing that the current 3-D Mario is not as popular as the 2-D version currently is, but I don't think Nintendo minds keeping some 5+ million-selling franchises around with the 20+ million-selling ones. No "wasting money" and no 3-D Mario vs. 2-D Mario hogwash. :p

Kilrogg said:
Heck, Japan, for all its "dislike" of 3D Mario, had no problem buying Crash Bandicoot and its sequels back in the day.
You mean the ones that all sold less than the 3-D Mario games outside of Sunshine? Funny standard you got there.

Stumpokapow said:
ask nintendo
Has Nintendo ever expressed disappointment with the sales of 3-D Mario not reaching 20 million?

BowieZ said:
Indeed, the sport of golf is a mess!
It would be if the courses allowed golfers to freely switch between courses at will without trees separating the individual hole courses. Start on 4 and end on 7 (right behind the tee)? Sure! It'd be like bowling and trying to get a strike in someone else's lane.

BowieZ said:
What ever got into me?
I have no idea.
 

BowieZ

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donny2112 said:
It would be if the courses allowed golfers to freely switch between courses at will without trees separating the individual hole courses. Start on 4 and end on 7 (right behind the tee)? Sure! It'd be like bowling and trying to get a strike in someone else's lane.
I do believe several (2D) Mario games have a Level 4 right nextdoor to a Level 7.