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Media Create Sales: Week 31, 2014 (Jul 28 - Aug 03)

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
That is why it is important that the Wii U can get ports/multiplatform titles from other more successful platforms like the 3DS successor and mobile. Ports from mobile are the best perspective for Vita going forward as well actually.

We need to stop seeing mobile as the killer of the traditional market and more as an expansion of it. Arcades were obsoleted by consoles yet consoles got many great games that originated there. And when arcades weakened they got some games that debuted on consoles as well. Mobile and traditional handhelds/consoles can feed each other in the same way, obviously with mobile taking the dominant role for now.

I feel arcades are similar to mobile in more ways than one. Using a quarter may seem cheap at first but it can add up, just like f2p on mobile. At some point customers understood that a more expensive console could actually save them money compared to arcades. Consoles could swing back too in the future. Or whatever follows mobile (maybe VR) could be more like consoles again.

And I take offense in cour claim that Wii didn't get high quality titles at all. You might want to put a quantifier like few in there. Very few if you must. And here I'm assuming you mean high budget 3rd party titles, not high quality in general.

Yes, sorry, I thought it was inherent I meant high budget third party titles given that Nintendo inherently supports their own platforms with high quality content. I can go clarify that with an edit though.

I think the PlayStation Portable line in general is pretty much over at this point, but were they to continue it I agree that sharing with mobile would be a good solution, and it's definitely something the 4DS should look into heavily.

Console is a bit harder since usually you inherit from PC there, but hey, mobile games are starting to look pretty good visually even at a huge resolution.
 

sörine

Banned
Saying "it's not really a sequel" doesn't change the fact that is the newest release on said console under said brand. To the consumer, that is the newest Wario, newest 3D Mario, newest Wii Sports.
So FFX/2 is the newest Final Fantasy, Revelations HD the newest Resident Evil, etc?

You're aware that Club is simply an HD Remaster of the original Wii Sports right? Not that it hasn't sold horribly but it seems you genuinely don't know?
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Eh, to be honest, right now I think 3DS is doing legit pretty good numbers, hardware wise. It's also selling better than a few months ago. 40,000 per week is pretty good historically.
At 40,000 I think we're still at a point where the absolute numbers can support a market, yes.

If the 4DS came out and sold 40,000 units every week for its entire life, never going above or below, that would still be a notably workable platform for many local publishers.

What's troubling with the system is more the generation over generation decline and the current year over year decline. Obviously if the decline stops here and next year does about the same that's not bad. If it falls further, we start to get into less ideal territory, especially if they're not pulling a new system out of their hat pretty quick.
 

MilesTeg

Banned
sörine;124227704 said:
So FFX/2 is the newest Final Fantasy, Revelations HD the newest Resident Evil, etc?

You're aware that Club is simply an HD Remaster of the original Wii Sports right? Not that is hasn't sold horribly but it seems you genuinely don't know?

What difference does that make? You people and your fixation on what is or isn't a sequel. It doesn't matter. Wii Sports Club is the first Wii Sports since 2009. It's not titled "Wii Sports HD". To the consumer, it's the newest Wii Sports on Nintendo's newest console. And it's a sub par game compared to Resort. I don't think it's much to ask for Nintendo to deliver superior products on their supposedly superior console.

And, if I said it was merely an HD remaster, I would have ten people telling me that is not the case due to motion plus and online play. Just can't win.
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
At 40,000 I think we're still at a point where the absolute numbers can support a market, yes.

If the 4DS came out and sold 40,000 units every week for its entire life, never going above or below, that would still be a notably workable platform for many local publishers.

What's troubling with the system is more the generation over generation decline and the current year over year decline. Obviously if the decline stops here and next year does about the same that's not bad. If it falls further, we start to get into less ideal territory, especially if they're not pulling a new system out of their hat pretty quick.

It should not be ignored that these aren't 3DS numbers right after launch, but in its 4th year on the market, after 15 millions sold already and without a revision since 2012 in Japan. A decline in 4th year is quite normal. DS YOY 2007-to-2008 drop was quite similar, % wise, too. Now, Nintendo should certainly release a revision soon to counter the saturation as much as possible, obviously.
 

sörine

Banned
What difference does that make? You people and your fixation on what is or isn't a sequel. It doesn't matter. Wii Sports Club is the first Wii Sports since 2009. It's not titled "Wii Sports HD". To the consumer, it's the newest Wii Sports on Nintendo's newest console. And it's a sub par game compared to Resort. I don't think it's much to ask for Nintendo to deliver superior products on their supposedly superior console.

And, if I said it was merely an HD remaster, I would have ten people telling me that is not the case due to motion plus and online play. Just can't win.
Well, it's also a game that was available digitally for 9 months beforehand and even auto-downloads itself to connected consoles.

And it's not about being a sequel or not. It's an improved version of the same game from 8 years ago. You really invite this sort of criticism when you compare it to something like 3D World.
 

Yagami_Sama

Member
Yo-Kai Watch 2 still on God mode, will hit 2 million mark next week, easily. Also the first still selling well.
I thought Yoshi Island would drop, but still had good sales. And Mario Kart still doing well, almost in the 600k mark.
And another "great" week for Wii U, sold relatively better than last week, and still outselling PS4.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
It should not be ignored that these aren't 3DS numbers right after launch, but in its 4th year on the market, after 15 millions sold already and without a revision since 2012 in Japan. A decline in 4th year is quite normal. DS YOY 2007-to-2008 drop was quite similar, % wise, too. Now, Nintendo should certainly release a revision soon to counter the saturation as much as possible, obviously.

Right, on the console lifecycle this isn't especially unusual.

The main concern in my mind is making sure that they always have a platform on the market that has good absolute numbers.

Like 40,000 a week is good. If next year is 20,000 a week, that's notably less good unless they have the 4DS coming out in Fall 2015.

If next year is 30,000 a week and then 20,000 a week after that, then Fall 2016 isn't a terrible launch timeframe. If it's 10,000 a week in 2016 with a Fall 2016 timeframe following a 20,000 2015, that's a lot of time for third parties to get rather nervous about the product line.

I don't think there's an immediate crisis by any means, but I feel we're in a situation where Nintendo definitely wants to be proactive in one way or another and not let a system languish.
 
The 3DS is doing good. Selling 40k weekly in a 4th year is ps2-level of amazingness. Enough to sustain a software environment for gaming enthusiasts that are not interested in casual iOS gaming. Just like iOS isn't damaging PS4 sales in the US neither will mobile further hurt the 3DS environment.

Also, kind of funny how the comparisons between Pikmin 3 and MK8 effect on hardware just disappeared.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
What are the chances Nintendo pulls out a 3DS revision during a Fall conference approximately around TGS time?

Based on their historic behavior, the timing is appropriate, but the question becomes what do they actually make a new revision do that actually adds value to the system?

I don't think Nintendo will put out a notable revision unless they can answer that question.
 
I think it's too quick to say that this 40k is new base level for 3DS. It just got huge software launch three weeks ago. Before Yokai Watch 3DS was doing sub 30k numbers weekly. Let's wait for couple more weeks.
 

MilesTeg

Banned
Based on their historic behavior, the timing is appropriate, but the question becomes what do they actually make a new revision do that actually adds value to the system?

I don't think Nintendo will put out a notable revision unless they can answer that question.

Well, they need to figure it out, and get a revision out by the time Smash Bros drops. Just reducing the size of the console from the OG 3DS would be enough imo.
 

extralite

Member
If anyone had suggested the hardware numbers following MK8 would be similar to those following Pikmin 11 weeks ago, it would have been scoffed at.
PM did. You at least suggested that the weekly numbers would still go lower at a time when they were already very close to the last few stable weeks.

And MK8 will sell for the whole generation and be a game for people to consider picking up a Wii U. Whenever a new game that interests them comes out, MK8 will be another title to buy alongside with. It will keep affecting weekly sales for a long time.

No, arcades are nothing like mobile. I don't even feel like explaining to you, but everyone who lived through the golden age of arcade knows why. You just know that sometimes there are wrong opinions and yours is one of them.
If my opinion was wrong you could point out where it is wrong. Maybe you don't explain your opinion because it would show that yours is wrong?

That you don't like mobile but like arcades doesn't change that there are similarities in spending patterns in both fields. And that each was a dominating gaming platform at a time, succeeded or succeeding another. Mobile too will be succeeded in popularity at some point.
 

RiggyRob

Member
Based on their historic behavior, the timing is appropriate, but the question becomes what do they actually make a new revision do that actually adds value to the system?

I don't think Nintendo will put out a notable revision unless they can answer that question.

The NFC compatibility for amiibo at the same time as Smash would be a good way to introduce the revision.
 

LOCK

Member
Well this has been a stable week.

Obon is close, and usually after that sales start to drop. Should be interesting to watch the Wii U and PS4 duke it out for dead console winner. At least the 3DS has Smash and MH soon.
 

MilesTeg

Banned
sörine;124229183 said:
Well, it's also a game that was available digitally for 9 months beforehand and even auto-downloads itself to connected consoles.

And it's not about being a sequel or not. It's an improved version of the same game from 8 years ago. You really invite this sort of criticism when you compare it to something like 3D World.

And what is 3D World? I already had someone tell me it's not the sequel to any Wii 3D Mario.

In my mind, it's the newest 3D Mario on Nintendo's home console. Saying otherwise would be akin to saying Galaxy was not the successor to Sunshine, or that Sunshine was not the successor to Mario 64.

Every generation, Nintendo releases (usually) at least one new iteration of their popular brands. SM3DW is one of those. So is Game&Wario. And Wii Fit U. And NSMBU. And Wii Party U. And Wii Sports Club. And DKCTF. I think it's fair to say that none of these have excited the consumer to the extent that their previous release on home console did. And that is an issue. It isn't just the hardware.
 

MilesTeg

Banned
Smash and AlphaOmega shall provide the boost; how big that's gonna be is anyone's guess, tho

If there is no new model, it will be a minor boost. Remember last year when Monster Hunter and Pokemon released. Now, the XL and OG are one year older, Smash Bros isn't Monster Hunter, and Omega isn't the first Pokemon on 3DS like X/Y was.
 

sörine

Banned
And what is 3D World? I already had someone tell me it's not the sequel to any Wii 3D Mario.

In my mind, it's the newest 3D Mario on Nintendo's home console. Saying otherwise would be akin to saying Galaxy was not the successor to Sunshine, or that Sunshine was not the successor to Mario 64.

Every generation, Nintendo releases (usually) at least one new iteration of their popular brands. SM3DW is one of those. So is Game&Wario. And Wii Fit U. And NSMBU. And Wii Party U. And Wii Sports Club. And DKCTF. I think it's fair to say that none of these have excited the consumer to the extent that their previous release on home console did. And that is an issue. It isn't just the hardware.
I'm not disagreeing with that, I'd even say 3DW is very much a full sequel. But Wii Sports Club is also entirely different from every other game you just listed. It's like saying Wind Waker HD is the new Zelda and trying to hold it up against full sequels. It's simply wrong.
 

wrowa

Member
And what is 3D World? I already had someone tell me it's not the sequel to any Wii 3D Mario.

In my mind, it's the newest 3D Mario on Nintendo's home console. Saying otherwise would be akin to saying Galaxy was not the successor to Sunshine, or that Sunshine was not the successor to Mario 64.

To be fair, Mario 3D Land was kind of a reboot of the Mario 3D formula. They went back to Mario Bros 3 and re-imagined how a 3D Mario game would look like that followed its design philosophy. So, I think it's actually fair to say that 3D World isn't a sequel to any of the other console 3D Marios, simply because it's building up on 3D Land's foundation and not on Mario Galaxy or Mario 64.
 

maxcriden

Member
And what is 3D World? I already had someone tell me it's not the sequel to any Wii 3D Mario.

In my mind, it's the newest 3D Mario on Nintendo's home console. Saying otherwise would be akin to saying Galaxy was not the successor to Sunshine, or that Sunshine was not the successor to Mario 64.

Every generation, Nintendo releases (usually) at least one new iteration of their popular brands. SM3DW is one of those. So is Game&Wario. And Wii Fit U. And NSMBU. And Wii Party U. And Wii Sports Club. And DKCTF. I think it's fair to say that none of these have excited the consumer to the extent that their previous release on home console did. And that is an issue. It isn't just the hardware.

I think we're kind of talking about different things here, but: I don't genuinely think any of the games you listed are worse than their Wii counterparts, and I think some are legitimately better. Regardless, I agree that consumers en masse are not interested in playing these games, or Nintendo games in general, at the moment. They don't offer something eye-catchingly different, kids are interested in tablets or smartphone games, and teens and up are mainly interested in the games you'll find on XBO/PS4.
 

Darius

Banned
What are the chances Nintendo pulls out a 3DS revision during a Fall conference approximately around TGS time?

3DSXl and 2DS were announced after important expos, so there is a (rather small) chance. It would have been a nice move to combine it with the release of Smash3DS but this seems more and more unlikely since it´s launching in a month. As far as I know the nfc-accessory for 3DS will launch next year, maybe there´ll be a revision around the same time including this tech among other things.

The 3DS is doing good. Selling 40k weekly in a 4th year is ps2-level of amazingness. Enough to sustain a software environment for gaming enthusiasts that are not interested in casual iOS gaming. Just like iOS isn't damaging PS4 sales in the US neither will mobile further hurt the 3DS environment.

Also, kind of funny how the comparisons between Pikmin 3 and MK8 effect on hardware just disappeared.

At least not from the same user. This reminds me of early MH4 and MH3p comparisons, which simply vanished. It would be nice if we could get an updated comparison for MH4 vs MH3p.
 

Takao

Banned
Wasn't Wii Sports Club's FW sales <20% of its shipment? Even if it's Wii Sports HD Edition, it's clearly not doing what Nintendo and retailers expected.
 

MilesTeg

Banned
sörine;124232849 said:
I'm not disagreeing with that, I'd even say 3DW is very much a full sequel. But Wii Sports Club is also entirely different from every other game you just listed. It's like saying Wind Waker HD is the new Zelda and trying to hold it up against full sequels. It's simply wrong.

And how would the consumer know that exactly. It's titled as a new game, it's on a new console, it's the first release in about 4-5 years, and there is no sequel to Resort that exists.
 

Road

Member
Marvelous first quarter (apr-jun): http://www.marv.jp/ir/tabid/51/index.php

Operating income by segment

- Online: 395 million yen ( +118%)
- Consumer: 298 million yen ( -60%)
- Audio/video: 228 million yen ( +25%)

Not relevant consumer game released this quarter, though, only Skullgirls Encore. Last year

--------------------

DeNA: http://dena.com/intl/press/2014/08/...arter-fiscal-year-2014-financial-results.html

dena2014060xusd.png


LINE: http://linecorp.com/en/press/2014/0731783

4d076951-s8luzw.png


Just look at the pictures.
 

extralite

Member
Yes, sorry, I thought it was inherent I meant high budget third party titles given that Nintendo inherently supports their own platforms with high quality content. I can go clarify that with an edit though.

My main concern was the missing quantifier. I just felt that by arguing that Wii got some high quality titles, just not many, it'd be preferable to explicitly state how I took your meaning and how you evidently also intended it. I didn't want to get misunderstood by others as ignoring the Nintendo titles, which neither of us did.

As for high budget titles by 3rd parties, there'd be Crystal Bearers, MH3 and DQX in Japan and some multiplatform titles like CoD in the West.

And how would the consumer know that exactly. It's titled as a new game, it's on a new console, it's the first release in about 4 years, and there is no sequel to Resort that exists.
Maybe it'd be better to compare the first WS title on Wii U to the first WS title on Wii (and not the second)? The only things that were better in WS were the freshness of controls and the ease of use, which is bought by missing complexity. WSC is better than WS in every way other than being late.

WSR is better than both because of more volume and better choice of sports for M+. WSC is an online HD version of WS, with better or worse controls, depending on what you expect.
 

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
Right, on the console lifecycle this isn't especially unusual.

The main concern in my mind is making sure that they always have a platform on the market that has good absolute numbers.

Like 40,000 a week is good. If next year is 20,000 a week, that's notably less good unless they have the 4DS coming out in Fall 2015.

If next year is 30,000 a week and then 20,000 a week after that, then Fall 2016 isn't a terrible launch timeframe. If it's 10,000 a week in 2016 with a Fall 2016 timeframe following a 20,000 2015, that's a lot of time for third parties to get rather nervous about the product line.

I don't think there's an immediate crisis by any means, but I feel we're in a situation where Nintendo definitely wants to be proactive in one way or another and not let a system languish.


While you are right that Nintendo shouldnt be caught off guard when it comes to the transition to their next system. I dont think focusing just on hardware sales is sufficient when talking about the health of the system. As long as the software is selling rather well and above expectations Nintendo doesnt need to panic - with YW2 and the upcoming Smash, MH4G and Pokemon they will make a lot of money on software.

Depending on what they can lineup for next year software wise and in in addition to their Amiibos the 3DS decline could be smaller than anticipated. I dont see the software market on the 3DS being killed as fast as the piracy did with regular DS.

It also depends on potential BC how Nintendo handles the final 3DS period - its pretty much a given that we will get another Pokemon mainline (X/Z 2 i guess), Pikachu Detective game ( Amiibo support is likely), Project Steam, Majoras Mask 3D ( if it doesnt hit this year), FF Explorer, new DQM, new Ace Attorney, Yokai Watch and Puzzle and Dragon follow ups are likely as well....so as long software still sells as well as it does, there is no need to shorten the 3DS life-span. If their next portable is a complete cut from the DS/3DS line, i expect the next 3DS revision to be sold for at least another two years.
 

MilesTeg

Banned
Wasn't Wii Sports Club's FW sales <20% of its shipment? Even if it's Wii Sports HD Edition, it's clearly not doing what Nintendo and retailers expected.

I'm not exactly sure what they expected, but it's not a good product. The graphics are straight up terrible, it barely uses the Gamepad. It obviously had a shit budget, it was stealth released as an incomplete digital title, the online play is mediocre. And Nintendo wants $40 for it, a game that was a free pack in in 2006 to display the Wii Remote capabilities, which the Wii U doesn't even have included in the box.

Nintendo completely mishandled the IP. They should have had a new Wii Sports out at launch, with Nintendoland tier graphics and a boatload of advertisement. Heck, Nintendoland should have BEEN a new Wii Sports.
 

Mr Swine

Banned
Based on their historic behavior, the timing is appropriate, but the question becomes what do they actually make a new revision do that actually adds value to the system?

I don't think Nintendo will put out a notable revision unless they can answer that question.

Beefier hardware and a second circle pad which could last them another 2 years on the market with the 3DS? Otherwise I don't know, a much slimmer 3DS? I don't think people will upgrade/buy another 3DS that doesn't offer much over the 3DS XL
 

extralite

Member
I'm not exactly sure what they expected, but it's not a good product. The graphics are straight up terrible, it barely uses the Gamepad. It obviously had a shit budget, it was stealth released as an incomplete digital title, the online play is mediocre. And Nintendo wants $40 for it, a game that was a free pack in in 2006 to display the Wii Remote capabilities, which the Wii U doesn't even have included in the box.
It wasn't in Japan, it was sold at ~$40 there. So that invalidates most of your comparative criticism. I do agree that WSR is much better than WS(C) though.

Although they did use the gamepad where it made sense, for golf and baseball.

Nintendo completely mishandled the IP. They should have had a new Wii Sports out at launch, with Nintendoland tier graphics and a boatload of advertisement. Heck, Nintendoland should have BEEN a new Wii Sports.
Since Nintendo launched the console with NL, they too obviously wanted it to become the next WS.
 

MilesTeg

Banned
Maybe it'd be better to compare the first WS title on Wii U to the first WS title on Wii (and not the second)? The only things that were better in WS were the freshness of controls and the ease of use, which is bought by missing complexity. WSC is better than WS in every way other than being late.

WSR is better than both because of more volume and better choice of sports for M+. WSC is an online HD version of WS, with better or worse controls, depending on what you expect.

Being better than a 2006 game, and worse than a 2009 game, on new hardware, in 2013/2014 simply isn't acceptable. Not for an IP that has over 110 million units in consumer hands in just two releases.
 

maxcriden

Member
I'm not exactly sure what they expected, but it's not a good product. The graphics are straight up terrible, it barely uses the Gamepad. It obviously had a shit budget, it was stealth released as an incomplete digital title, the online play is mediocre. And Nintendo wants $40 for it, a game that was a free pack in in 2006 to display the Wii Remote capabilities, which the Wii U doesn't even have included in the box.

Nintendo completely mishandled the IP. They should have had a new Wii Sports out at launch, with Nintendoland tier graphics and a boatload of advertisement. Heck, Nintendoland should have BEEN a new Wii Sports.

I don't know that I follow your premise. What consumers would have cared about or purchased a system for a new Wii Sports on Wii U, no matter the advertising? Wii Sports was a fad.
 
At least not from the same poster. This reminds me at early MH4 and MH3p comparisons, that simply vanished after it was selling quite better than some expected. It would be nice if we could get an updated comparison for MH4 vs MH3p.

Little hard as we didn't get numbers from titles outside of top 20 back in 2011 but I try my best (someone can correct my numbers)

45 weeks in

MH4
4.299 / 3.503.763

MHP3
7.781 / 42.524 (the best version during the week 41, 2011) + 4,490,165 (for original game at of end of august) = at least 4,532,689 (missing some sales from september)

MH4 is about million behind in retail.
 

MilesTeg

Banned
I don't know that I follow your premise. What consumers would have cared about or purchased a system for a new Wii Sports on Wii U, no matter the advertising? Wii Sports was a fad.

We will never know because Nintendo botched it so hard, that even if people cared in 2012, they probably don't care now. A new Wii Sports, with new hardware, good graphics, good online play was probably a much easier sell to consumers than Nintendoland, I know that much.

What I do know, is that Nintendoland was a bust, and Nintendo would have been better off launching with nearly any other of their popular IP.
 

extralite

Member
I don't know that I follow your premise. What consumers would have cared about or purchased a system for a new Wii Sports on Wii U, no matter the advertising? Wii Sports was a fad.
Wii Sports was not bundled in Japan and was still in the charts when WSR arrived. Both WSR and WS kept selling the following years. It was not a fad.

The problem is, better graphics don't make WS better in the eyes of the audience that bought a Wii for it. They might buy a Wii U for the sum of its games but not for an upgraded version of WS. That will only factor into the library at large but it cannot be a system seller again.

WS offered something new. WS will not be new the second time. But as other following Wii _ titles have shown, there is a certain brand strength to the franchise, if the audience is already there.
 

Haines

Banned
Based on their historic behavior, the timing is appropriate, but the question becomes what do they actually make a new revision do that actually adds value to the system?

I don't think Nintendo will put out a notable revision unless they can answer that question.

Which is why we saw the 2ds as there new model effort. We already have that and the xl. Trying to sell another version would be a bonehead move. The 3ds is already basically a revision of the ds.

Nintendo has milked the ds long enough. Time for a new idea for a handheld and I'm sure they know it.
 

Darius

Banned
Little hard as we didn't get numbers from titles outside of top 20 back in 2011 but I try my best (someone can correct my numbers)

45 weeks in

MH4
4.299 / 3.503.763

MHP3
7.781 / 42.524 (the best version during the week 41, 2011) + 4,490,165 (for original game at of end of august) = at least 4,532,689 (missing some sales from september)

MH4 is about million behind in retail.

This misses a lot of data, for example DL sales that have been confirmed by Capcom. Also I meant the more thourogh comparison (week by week).

Basically an updated version of this:

Code:
  -------------------------------------------------------------
    |    |  MH Portable 3rd  |  Monster Hunter 4 |  Difference  |
    |    | [PSP] (2010.12.01)| [3DS] (2013.09.14)|              |
    |----|---------|---------|---------|---------|--------------|
    |Week|  Weekly |   LTD   |  Weekly |   LTD   | MHP3rd - MH4 |
    |----|---------|---------|---------|---------|--------------|
    |  1 |2.146.467|2.146.467|1.875.115|1.875.115|      -271.352|
    |  2 |  514.198|2.660.665|  432.286|2.307.401|      -353.264|
    |  3 |  434.837|3.095.502|  234.713|2.542.114|      -553.388|  
    |  4 |  385.487|3.480.989|  164.593|2.706.707|      -774.282| 
    |  5 |  317.471|3.798.460|  111.230|2.817.937|      -980.523|  
    |  6 |  155.839|3.954.299|   97.336|2.915.273|    -1.039.026|  
    |  7 |   80.703|4.035.002|   60.206|2.975.479|    -1.059.523|  
    |  8 |   56.450|4.091.452|   47.393|3.022.872|    -1.068.580|  
    |  9 |   39.453|4.130.905|   39.167|3.062.039|    -1.068.866| 
    | 10 |   32.655|4.163.560|   32.813|3.094.852|    -1.068.708|
    | 11 |  104.900|4.268.460|   24.684|3.119.536|    -1.148.924|
    | 12 |   26.865|4.295.325|   25.756|3.145.292|    -1.150.033|
    | 13 |   20.594|4.315.919|   25.743|3.171.035|    -1.144.884|
    | 14 |   16.912|4.332.831|   35.660|3.206.695|    -1.126.136|
    | 15 |   13.981|4.346.722|   46.279|3.252.974|    -1.093.748|
    | 16 |   11.924|4.358.646|   40.338|3.293.312|    -1.065.334|
    | 17 |   13.536|4.372.182|   48.622|3.341.934|    -1.030.248|
    | 18 |   12.946|4.385.128|   19.133|3.361.067|    -1.024.061| 
    | 19 |    9.589|4.394.171|   12.713|3.373.780|    -1.020.391|
    | 20 |    6.246|4.400.963|    9.224|3.383.004|    -1.017.959|
    | 21 |    5.929|4.406.892|    6.953|3.389.957|    -1.016.935|
    | 22 |    7.442|4.414.334|    5.131|3.395.088|    -1.019.246|
    | 23 |    7.381|4.421.175|    5.088|3.400.176|    -1.023.999|
    | 24 |    3.844|4.425.599|    4.533|3.404.709|    -1.020.890|
    | 25 |    3.766|4.429.365|    4.651|3.409.360|    -1.020.005|
    | 26 |    4.360|4.433.725|    4.469|3.413.829|    -1.019.896|
    | 27 |    4.170|4.437.895|    4.970|3.418.799|    -1.019.096|
    | 28 |    3.856|4.441.751|    5.629|3.424.428|    -1.017.323|
    | 29 |    3.796|4.445.547|         |         |              |
    | 30 |    3.711|4.449.258|         |         |              |
    |----|---------|---------|---------|---------|--------------|
    |Year|   YTD   |   LTD   |   YTD   |   LTD   |  Difference  |
    |----|---------|---------|---------|---------|--------------|
    |  1 |3.480.989|3.480.989|3.293.312|3.293.312|      -187.677|
    |  2 |1.021.457|4.502.446|   48.622|3.341.934|      -972.835|
    |----|---------|---------|---------|---------|--------------|
    | LTD|        -|4.502.446|        -|3.341.934|    -1.160.512|     
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    |LTD2|        -|4.826.665|        -|3.598.137|    -1.228.528|     
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    LTD2 = Physical copies + budget re-releases + download cards + digital sales if available

[PSP] Monster Hunter Portable 3rd (Capcom) {2010.12.01} - 2.146.467 / 4.502.446
[PSP] Monster Hunter Portable 3rd (PSP the Best) (Capcom) {2011.09.22} - 15.113 / 324.206

Total - 4.826.665

[3DS] Monster Hunter 4 - Digital Sales (Capcom) {2013.09.14} - 256.203

Total - >[B]3,705,761[/B]
 

maxcriden

Member
We will never know because Nintendo botched it so hard, that even if people cared in 2012, they probably don't care now. A new Wii Sports, with new hardware, good graphics, good online play was probably a much easier sell to consumers than Nintendoland, I know that much.

What I do know, is that Nintendoland was a bust, and Nintendo would have been better off launching with nearly any other of their popular IP.

The thing is, Wii U also launched with NSMBU, which in Nintendo's eyes was them launching with a popular IP. NSMB did amazing numbers. Nintendo just didn't understand an HD NSMB game wouldn't be a system seller in and of itself.

Wii Sports was not bundled in Japan and was still in the charts when WSR arrived. Both WSR and WS kept selling the following years. It was not a fad.

The problem is, better graphics don't make WS better in the eyes of the audience that bought a Wii for it. They might buy a Wii U for the sum of its games but not for an upgraded version of WS. That will only factor into the library at large but it cannot be a system seller again.

WS offered something new. WS will not be new the second time. But as other following Wii _ titles have shown, there is a certain brand strength to the franchise, if the audience is already there.

I think we might just be using different definitions of the word "fad" because that's exactly what I mean by fad. It was a fad for several years, but I don't believe it's a franchise with sustained future interest in the way Mario or Zelda, or even Wii Fit is (although unfortunately interest in Wii Fit has become pretty meager, too). I mean, if Wii Sports VR was a thing, that would create renewed interest at the right price point. But in the meantime, it's a fad that has passed and one that is tied inexorably to the Wii area. I think we ultimately agree even if we're saying the same thing in different ways.
 

sörine

Banned
And how would the consumer know that exactly. It's titled as a new game, it's on a new console, it's the first release in about 4-5 years, and there is no sequel to Resort that exists.
I don't know, perhaps they can play it for free the first 24 hours when it auto-downloads on their Wii U?
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
While you are right that Nintendo shouldnt be caught off guard when it comes to the transition to their next system. I dont think focusing just on hardware sales is sufficient when talking about the health of the system. As long as the software is selling rather well and above expectations Nintendo doesnt need to panic - with YW2 and the upcoming Smash, MH4G and Pokemon they will make a lot of money on software.

Depending on what they can lineup for next year software wise and in in addition to their Amiibos the 3DS decline could be smaller than anticipated. I dont see the software market on the 3DS being killed as fast as the piracy did with regular DS.

It also depends on potential BC how Nintendo handles the final 3DS period - its pretty much a given that we will get another Pokemon mainline (X/Z 2 i guess), Pikachu Detective game ( Amiibo support is likely), Project Steam, Majoras Mask 3D ( if it doesnt hit this year), FF Explorer, new DQM, new Ace Attorney, Yokai Watch and Puzzle and Dragon follow ups are likely as well....so as long software still sells as well as it does, there is no need to shorten the 3DS life-span. If their next portable is a complete cut from the DS/3DS line, i expect the next 3DS revision to be sold for at least another two years.
Yes, this is a fair point, as long as software is selling well, publishers will often support a device even if the hardware isn't doing great.

A good example of this is also the late era of the PSP and PS3, which were on the decline but still got a lot of support. In the case of the PS3, it's still getting good support.

However, this is part of why I started following hardware more than software as a leading indicator. Neither the follow-up to the PSP or PS3 got great support, especially out the gate. Sony had to make a herculean effort with the Vita to get it to where it is now and that's still not an amazing place.

This also actually supports your proposition that the 3DS will be well supporting for years after the 4DS comes out, even if it's just by virtue of publishers wanting to sell to the 3DS installed base.

I feel the reason for failed transitions though is that a lot of publishers operate on a three year software slate, and generally like to play it safe. If you're sitting here and greenlighting a game coming out in 2015 or even 2016, if you're making a game that would traditionally be for a dedicated device, the odds that you will greenlight it for the 3DS are pretty good, since it should still have the best and most active audience by then.

If you're deciding on your games that are for 2017 however, you have to look at the current situation and make a decision what you're going to focus on. The 3DS is likely to be a tapering software market at this point. Do you make a game for 3DS anyway? Do you make a bet that the next Nintendo handheld will take off? Do you make a cross-gen game? Do you add the staff on to a console title that needs more staff? Do you combine two teams to meet the increased standards that the 4DS has? Do you consider breaking up the team and making three mobile titles? Do you have them work on an f2p online game for Asia?

At this point, you have to try and do a whole bunch of prognostication about a time that is quite far away. So, you look at the current market. You see that 3DS software sales are good, but that the hardware is quickly slipping. You see that the Vita is unlikely to get a successor. You see that the PS3 is on its last legs, and that the PS4 and Wii U really aren't looking so hot. Also, your competitors don't seem to have many (if any) games announced for either the PS4 or Wii U either. The PS4 is doing well in the West, but Japanese games largely aren't doing so hot there. Mobile is growing heavily, and the big publishers are all investing it both it and PC online browser games. However, neither of those markets support the business model that your traditional dedicated device game uses.

It's a pretty hard spot to be in. When consoles started going down, you could move to handhelds and still use a pretty similar business model. Sure, the content was a bit different, but it still pretty closely resembled what you were making before, and hey, it was cheaper and easier than making a PS2 game and definitely than making a PS3 game. For the 4DS, maybe that's not as true anymore, especially if your series has any ties to higher production values.

There's often a big reward for getting the decision you make right, and sometimes a harsh penalty for getting it wrong. This is why I think we saw a lot of series leave consoles and bet on handhelds and why we saw a lot of developers who made major PSP games either move to 3DS or folding the teams into major console titles that did well in the West. I think this is also why we saw a lot of mid-performing DS titles evaporate into the ether to bet on the up and coming mobile market.

Now, have we hit a plateau in that shift? Hard to say. What still comes out on dedicated devices is pretty centralized around a few key successes for each publisher at this point, along with some really low budget filler titles.

I guess my perspective is that I feel anything that even raises the question of "The 4DS might not be as big a success as the 3DS." is bad, especially at this point, because this is when a lot of publishers are deciding on their early plans for the next generation of handhelds. Now, if they want to make games for a dedicated handheld, obviously they have pretty much no other choice as time goes on, but I think it's in Nintendo's interest to make sure that "they want to make games for a dedicated handheld" is their starting point in this thought process.
 
This misses a lot of data, for example DL sales that have been confirmed by Capcom. Also I meant the more thourogh comparison (week by week).

Basically an updated version of this:

Code:
  -------------------------------------------------------------
    |    |  MH Portable 3rd  |  Monster Hunter 4 |  Difference  |
    |    | [PSP] (2010.12.01)| [3DS] (2013.09.14)|              |
    |----|---------|---------|---------|---------|--------------|
    |Week|  Weekly |   LTD   |  Weekly |   LTD   | MHP3rd - MH4 |
    |----|---------|---------|---------|---------|--------------|
    |  1 |2.146.467|2.146.467|1.875.115|1.875.115|      -271.352|
    |  2 |  514.198|2.660.665|  432.286|2.307.401|      -353.264|
    |  3 |  434.837|3.095.502|  234.713|2.542.114|      -553.388|  
    |  4 |  385.487|3.480.989|  164.593|2.706.707|      -774.282| 
    |  5 |  317.471|3.798.460|  111.230|2.817.937|      -980.523|  
    |  6 |  155.839|3.954.299|   97.336|2.915.273|    -1.039.026|  
    |  7 |   80.703|4.035.002|   60.206|2.975.479|    -1.059.523|  
    |  8 |   56.450|4.091.452|   47.393|3.022.872|    -1.068.580|  
    |  9 |   39.453|4.130.905|   39.167|3.062.039|    -1.068.866| 
    | 10 |   32.655|4.163.560|   32.813|3.094.852|    -1.068.708|
    | 11 |  104.900|4.268.460|   24.684|3.119.536|    -1.148.924|
    | 12 |   26.865|4.295.325|   25.756|3.145.292|    -1.150.033|
    | 13 |   20.594|4.315.919|   25.743|3.171.035|    -1.144.884|
    | 14 |   16.912|4.332.831|   35.660|3.206.695|    -1.126.136|
    | 15 |   13.981|4.346.722|   46.279|3.252.974|    -1.093.748|
    | 16 |   11.924|4.358.646|   40.338|3.293.312|    -1.065.334|
    | 17 |   13.536|4.372.182|   48.622|3.341.934|    -1.030.248|
    | 18 |   12.946|4.385.128|   19.133|3.361.067|    -1.024.061| 
    | 19 |    9.589|4.394.171|   12.713|3.373.780|    -1.020.391|
    | 20 |    6.246|4.400.963|    9.224|3.383.004|    -1.017.959|
    | 21 |    5.929|4.406.892|    6.953|3.389.957|    -1.016.935|
    | 22 |    7.442|4.414.334|    5.131|3.395.088|    -1.019.246|
    | 23 |    7.381|4.421.175|    5.088|3.400.176|    -1.023.999|
    | 24 |    3.844|4.425.599|    4.533|3.404.709|    -1.020.890|
    | 25 |    3.766|4.429.365|    4.651|3.409.360|    -1.020.005|
    | 26 |    4.360|4.433.725|    4.469|3.413.829|    -1.019.896|
    | 27 |    4.170|4.437.895|    4.970|3.418.799|    -1.019.096|
    | 28 |    3.856|4.441.751|    5.629|3.424.428|    -1.017.323|
    | 29 |    3.796|4.445.547|         |         |              |
    | 30 |    3.711|4.449.258|         |         |              |
    |----|---------|---------|---------|---------|--------------|
    |Year|   YTD   |   LTD   |   YTD   |   LTD   |  Difference  |
    |----|---------|---------|---------|---------|--------------|
    |  1 |3.480.989|3.480.989|3.293.312|3.293.312|      -187.677|
    |  2 |1.021.457|4.502.446|   48.622|3.341.934|      -972.835|
    |----|---------|---------|---------|---------|--------------|
    | LTD|        -|4.502.446|        -|3.341.934|    -1.160.512|     
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    |LTD2|        -|4.826.665|        -|3.598.137|    -1.228.528|     
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    LTD2 = Physical copies + budget re-releases + download cards + digital sales if available

[PSP] Monster Hunter Portable 3rd (Capcom) {2010.12.01} - 2.146.467 / 4.502.446
[PSP] Monster Hunter Portable 3rd (PSP the Best) (Capcom) {2011.09.22} - 15.113 / 324.206

Total - 4.826.665

[3DS] Monster Hunter 4 - Digital Sales (Capcom) {2013.09.14} - 256.203

Total - >[B]3,705,761[/B]

Oh. From that I could have gotten totals for original version MHP3. But still like I said updating that comparison could be hard as we didn't get numbers for titles outside top 20 back then and MHP3 fall out from top 20 in june 2011. Still from totals after 45 weeks it seems that MH4 really hasn't gained that much. In retail 1 million difference and even with dowloads about 700k difference.
 

MilesTeg

Banned
sörine;124241807 said:
I don't know, perhaps they can play it for free the first 24 hours when it auto-downloads on their Wii U?

So basically you need to buy the console first and play the game...OK.

Here is what people see: A new Wii Sports with a horrendous metacritic for $40. That is, if they know the game even exists in the first place.
 
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