Media Create Sales: Week 36, 2014 (Sep 01 - Sep 07)

Celine

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Oct 4, 2009
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730
Annual (FY) Home Console Hardware Shipments:

Code:
	Total	           Nintendo	      Sega	        Sony**	          NEC	         Matsushita	Microsoft      Pioneer	     Others

[URL="http://www.telecompaper.com/news/home-videogame-machine-shipments-  rise-in-2001--313309"]2002 03[/URL]	7,710,000 (+52.1%) 1,620,000* (21.0%)   200,000 (02.6%)	5,640,000 (73.2%)  -	             -	        250,000 (03.2%)	  -	       -
[URL="http://www.telecompaper.com/news/sony-unit-leads-games-machine-  market-in-2000--275040"]2001 03[/URL]	5,070,000 (-06.8%)   200,000* (04.0%)   470,000 (09.2%)	4,400,000 (86.7%)  -	             -	            -	          -	      10,000 (00.1%)
[URL="http://www.telecompaper.com/news/videogame-machine-shipments-down-  111-in-fy-1999--225301"]2000 03[/URL]	5,440,000 (-11.1%)   940,000* (17.2%)   950,000 (17.4%)	3,550,000 (65.3%)  -	             -	            -	          -	      10,000 (00.1%)
1999 03	6,120,000 (-16.2%) 1,310,000  (21.4%) 1,050,000 (17.1%)	3,750,000 (61.2%)  ?	             -              -	          -	      20,000 (00.3%)
[URL="http://www.telecompaper.com/news/sony-heads-home-video-games-  market--144137"]1998 03[/URL]	7,300,000 (-20.2%) 1,330,000  (18.1%)   800,000 (10.9%)	5,010,000 (68.3%)  ?	             ?	            -	          -	     200,000 (02.7%)
[URL="http://www.telecompaper.com/news/games-console-sales-rise-628-in-  fy-1996--114375"]1997 03[/URL]	9,200,000 (+62.8%) 2,730,000  (29.7%) 2,300,000 (25.0%)	4,000,000 (43.4%)  50,000 (0.5%)  60,000 (0.7%)     -	          -	      60,000 (00.7%)
[URL="http://www.telecompaper.com/news/home-video-game-machine-shipments-  rise--85713"]1996 03[/URL]	5,650,000 (+06.8%) 1,860,000  (32.9%) 1,690,000 (29.9%)	1,700,000 (29.2%) 140,000 (2.5%) 250,000 (4.4%)	    -	          ?	      60,000 (01.1%)
[URL="http://www.telecompaper.com/news/nintendo-sees-share-of-video-game-  market-down-20--64463"]1995 03[/URL]	5,290,000 (+07.9%) 2,930,000  (55.4%) 1,010,000 (19.1%)	  800,000 (15.1%)  ?	             ?	            -	          ?	     550,000 (10.4%)
[URL="http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=118250312&postcount=417"]1994 03[/URL]	4,900,000	   3,650,000  (75.4%)   550,000 (11.5%)	   -	           ?	          40,000 (0.8%)	    -          42,000 (0.9%) 560,000 (11.4%)
[URL="http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=109677934&postcount=581"]1993 03[/URL]		           4,890,000	        480,000 	   -	          670,000     	     -	            -	          -	

*Excluding NES & SNES
** Production shipments, "1997 03" onwards include shipments to Asian countries and regions including South Korea.
Source: Nihon Keizai Shimbun (Nikkei)
Good job as usual BKK.

What was DC final shipment in Japan? I always found the 2.8M a bit puzzling.

I was thinking wouldn't be a better idea to open a thread for sales data of old systems (let's say Dreamcast and below).
There is a severe lack of good researched data for this subject on the net.
What do you think sale-agers?
 

Darius

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Nov 22, 2013
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to me, this is the week we perfectly recognize the PS4 superiority (sales-wise) over the Wii U in the long term also in Japan.
What is so special about this week? I also don´t understand the meaning or importance of such a comparison other than beeing one between two consoles, because we are looking at a trajectory of Saturn like sales at best and let´s be honest both will be even less relevant compared to mobile and handhelds than last gen consoles, simply due to even worse sales.

About the comparison, sure PS4 has an advantage due to nearly non existent 3rd party support for WiiU but first of all PS4 still has to close the gap between the two first, when do you think this could happen? Which year? As a sidenote it´s interesting that launch aligned PS4 is performing considerably worse so far, we are talking about something like 300k units behind.

In my opinion it will take years to even just close the gap and even longer to have even an irrelevant amount more system sold, by then we might already see the next gen handheld systems and maybe even next gen console systems will be around the corner. Especially the former will then become the focus in public perception and also in Japan specific game development. Basically I just see a comparison between two consoles, with no noteworthy significance, other than silly system wars to determine who "won", while it´s already clear that both lost, with basically the same small userbase until the first next-gen console launches. At the very least Nintendo has their handeld market, while Sonys already seems to fade away.
 

crinale

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Sep 25, 2008
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This is as ridiculous as saying a fighter through a lucky punch in a professional fight.
I'm sure TV series is what "ignited" the YW boom, but of course the franchise as a whole must be attractive for the first place to be successful.

FYI the Gaist Crusher *cough* is also airing TV series (it has come to like episode 48 or 49).
 

Kresnik258

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Jan 25, 2014
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Heh, they're not even doing that. One late port of an iOS game in 3+ years... it's pretty clear where their priorities lie for that particular series.

I'm still not sure why they decided to port that game to the 3DS to begin with. Not that it matters anyway, I'd be surprised if this game had even midly decent sales.
It seems to be doing alright on COMG (relatively). Should beat the R ports on Vita at least. Never going to reach the Radiant Mythology numbers (but you've got to imagine they weren't expecting that anyway).

Speaking of which, I wonder if we're going to see another Radiant Mythology game. They seemed to be very popular.

It's a shame Tales of Heroes released so late in the PSP's life too.

Dengeki Sales: Week 36, 2014 (Sep 01 - Sep 07)

32./00. [PSV] The Walking Dead (Square Enix) {2014.09.04} - 2.838 / NEW
34./00. [3DS] Gaist Crusher: God (Capcom) {2014.09.04} - 2.570 / NEW
Deary me.
 

Aostia

El Capitan Todd
Sep 2, 2011
18,552
4
0
What is so special about this week? I also don´t understand the meaning or importance of such a comparison other than beeing one between two consoles, because we are looking at a trajectory of Saturn like sales at best and let´s be honest both will be even less relevant compared to mobile and handhelds than last gen consoles, simply due to even worse sales.

About the comparison, sure PS4 has an advantage due to nearly non existent 3rd party support for WiiU but first of all PS4 still has to close the gap between the two first, when do you think this could happen? Which year? As a sidenote it´s interesting that launch aligned PS4 is performing considerably worse so far, we are talking about something like 300k units behind.

In my opinion it will take years to even just close the gap and even longer to have even an irrelevant amount more system sold, by then we might already see the next gen handheld systems and maybe even next gen systems will be around the corner. Especially the former will then become the focus in public perception and also in Japan specific game development. Basically I just see a comparison between two consoles, with no noteworthy significance, other than silly system wars to determine who "won", while it´s already clear that both lost, with basically the same small userbase until the first next-gen console launches. At the very least Nintendo has their handeld market, while Sonys already seems to fade away.

Well, my post was related to the question we had since MK8 launch about PS4 chances to chance weekly sales pace once the games will hit the market, compared to the Wii U, that already saw some significant software.
I think that this week testifies that PS4 indeed has more potential than Wii U, consiering how PS4 is able to cross the stream in the actual weekly sales with the Wii U, despite being more expensive and less attractive in terms of available software.
This should somehow reinforce third parties in keeping avoiding Wii U and supporting PS4.
 

frankie_baby

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May 3, 2007
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Well, my post was related to the question we had since MK8 launch about PS4 chances to chance weekly sales pace once the games will hit the market, compared to the Wii U, that already saw some significant software.
I think that this week testifies that PS4 indeed has more potential than Wii U, consiering how PS4 is able to cross the stream in the actual weekly sales with the Wii U, despite being more expensive and less attractive in terms of available software.
This should somehow reinforce third parties in keeping avoiding Wii U and supporting PS4.
Ps4 actually had a game released this week, yeah it didn't sell much but probably convinced a few hundred maybe a thousand or so extra people to buy a ps4 this week
 

Aostia

El Capitan Todd
Sep 2, 2011
18,552
4
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Ps4 actually had a game released this week, yeah it didn't sell much but probably convinced a few hundred maybe a thousand or so extra people to buy a ps4 this week
that's true. But if a 10k selling game had a small but still present impact, I think that those who said that PS4 will change weekly sales peace with significant games, were right.
 

RalchAC

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Jun 9, 2013
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It seems to be doing alright on COMG (relatively). Should beat the R ports on Vita at least. Never going to reach the Radiant Mythology numbers (but you've got to imagine they weren't expecting that anyway).

Speaking of which, I wonder if we're going to see another Radiant Mythology game. They seemed to be very popular.

It's a shame Tales of Heroes released so late in the PSP's life too.

Deary me.
A Tales of Musou would be awesome. And it'd totally sell one million. 500k for Tales and 500k for Musou :p

I'm obviously joking but I'd love it.

Since the franchise is already action oriented it should work quite well and I think it could eventually reach 300k if it's good enough (the best selling Tales spin offs did those numbers right?)
 

Darius

Banned
Nov 22, 2013
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Well, my post was related to the question we had since MK8 launch about PS4 chances to chance weekly sales pace once the games will hit the market, compared to the Wii U, that already saw some significant software.
I think that this week testifies that PS4 indeed has more potential than Wii U, consiering how PS4 is able to cross the stream in the actual weekly sales with the Wii U, despite being more expensive and less attractive in terms of available software.
This should somehow reinforce third parties in keeping avoiding Wii U and supporting PS4.
Even PSV managed to outsell 3DS in weekly or even monthly sales for a short period of time. I think you are giving too much importance to some hundred units and depending on trackers it still sold less anyway. Also you seem to purposely belittle PS4s lineup, sure WiiU got Nintendos own software but it´s disingenouse to hide software support or releases for PS4 that in comparison actually looks like something like a constant stream of content compared to WiiUs dryspell.

About price, I don´t think its such a big deal because it isn´t that much or as ridiculous as PS3, mainstream features like BluRay movie playback but also stronger hardware make the not big difference in price even less relevant. Price was also a common excuse for PSV, when compared to its competition and we see that its current price parity didn´t lead to 3DS XL like sales.

When do you expect the gap between PS4 and WiiU to close?
 

sense

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Aug 4, 2012
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Even PSV managed to outsell 3DS in weekly or even monthly sales for a short period of time. I think you are giving too much importance to some hundred units and depending on trackers it still sold less anyway. Also you seem to purposely belittle PS4s lineup, sure WiiU got Nintendos own software but it´s disingenouse to hide software support or releases for PS4 that in comparison actually looks like something like a constant stream of content compared to WiiUs dryspell.

About price, I don´t think its such a big deal because it isn´t that much or as ridiculous as PS3, mainstream features like BluRay movie playback but also stronger hardware make the not big difference in price even less relevant. Price was also a common excuse for PSV, when compared to its competition and we see that its current price parity didn´t lead to 3DS XL like sales.

When do you expect the gap between PS4 and WiiU to close?
I expect the gap to close in 2015. Leaning towards early 2015 around dqh release time but I might be too optimistic about bloodborne effect so I will say by end of 2015
 

Darius

Banned
Nov 22, 2013
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I expect the gap to close in 2015. Leaning towards early 2015 around dqh release time but I might be too optimistic about bloodborne effect so I will say by end of 2015
Early 2015 isn´t optimistic in my opinion, but simply impossible. PS4 would have to sell 1.3million more than WiiU until then, if we base that prediction simply on todays known gap. I also doubt PS4 can replicate WiiUs last years holiday sales this year.
 

Kresnik258

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Jan 25, 2014
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Oh. That explains most of the weekly difference.
VitaTV is still only ~ 1k per week, Dengeki consistenly seems like 3-4k off the other two.

It explains some of the different, but I still don't get why they're tracking so low on a regular basis.
 

Psycho_Mantis

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Jul 28, 2012
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I expect the gap to close in 2015. Leaning towards early 2015 around dqh release time but I might be too optimistic about bloodborne effect so I will say by end of 2015
Nah. 2016 is more likely unless the WiiU does even worse than expected in 2015 and PS4 does really really well throughout next year.
 

KillerMan91

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Aug 24, 2011
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VitaTV is still only ~ 1k per week, Dengeki consistenly seems like 3-4k off the other two.

It explains some of the different, but I still don't get why they're tracking so low on a regular basis.
Now when you mention it I hadn't noticed that sales for VitaTV are that bad lol. Yeah even with that the weekly difference is quite big especially as Famitsu and MC seem to be rather close each week but just Dengeki that is so off.
 

frankie_baby

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Early 2015 isn´t optimistic in my opinion, but simply impossible. PS4 would have to sell 1.3million more than WiiU until then, if we base that prediction simply on todays known gap. I also doubt PS4 can replicate WiiUs last years holiday sales this year.
What does ps4 have this holiday? I can't help thinking we are heading for a repeat of vita 2012
 

sörine

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Sep 1, 2013
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Because a musou game selling well comparably poorly on a Nintendo or Sony platform doesn't significantly modify the brand equity of either.

Where do consumers expect FF, MGS, Tales, Yakuza, musou? Which platforms will enter purchase consideration consequently? How have these titles changed that? And therefore why should publishers change their considerations as a result.
Game performance shouldn't alter publisher considerations? Consumer expectations are set by what's available, not the reverse. What you're suggesting here is circular logic and it isn't really supported by the market data. If PS4 was the expected Musou machine by consumers then it's titles shouldn't be selling as poorly as they would on Wii U or Xbox 360. If franchises like Tales, Ridge Racer, Musou or Metal Gear were inherently PlayStation franchises in consumers eyes then they all wouldn't have performed better on 3DS than Vita. The message coming from consumers doesn't line up all with what you're suggesting the expectation is. The results don't match.

The expectations here aren't being set by consumers at all, they're being set by publishers. And in the face of consumer results to the contrary publishers in many cases seem to be charging ahead as is pushing support one way. Publisher expectations are dictating support though, and it's not based on consumers.
 

KillerMan91

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Vita holiday 2012 had call of duty too
Spinoff that was terrible game. Not really comparable to mainline games that use to sell around 400k on PS3 alone in Japan. That is more than most Musou games sell nowadays. PS4 has rather terrible line up for holiday season but not Vita 2012 bad.
 

Aostia

El Capitan Todd
Sep 2, 2011
18,552
4
0
Even PSV managed to outsell 3DS in weekly or even monthly sales for a short period of time. I think you are giving too much importance to some hundred units and depending on trackers it still sold less anyway. Also you seem to purposely belittle PS4s lineup, sure WiiU got Nintendos own software but it´s disingenouse to hide software support or releases for PS4 that in comparison actually looks like something like a constant stream of content compared to WiiUs dryspell.

About price, I don´t think its such a big deal because it isn´t that much or as ridiculous as PS3, mainstream features like BluRay movie playback but also stronger hardware make the not big difference in price even less relevant. Price was also a common excuse for PSV, when compared to its competition and we see that its current price parity didn´t lead to 3DS XL like sales.

When do you expect the gap between PS4 and WiiU to close?
I think that the 3DS-Vita situation was/is very different. I've never perceived the 3DS as weaker, because of market reactions, lineup and first party perception: when we saw the streams cross, it was a positive peak for Vita and a negative average week for the 3DS. Here for Wii U and PS4 we have a different landscape: it seems to me that there is a latent potential in PS4 (please note: the terms should be related to the context of a very weak home console market in Japan), considering its debut numbers (very high considering the period of release, the price, the lack of exclusive Japanes-focused software, a PS3 still alive, while the Wii launch with slighlty lower numbers, near the Holidays, with a New Mario and Nintendoland), and the small reactions due to very weak (on paper) proposals (like the Fifa bundle or this week's 10k release) compared to the reactions we saw when N released games like Pikmin3 or MK8

You are probably right about the price

I think that if the Wii U will see Holiday bump as last year, the streams could cross around early 16, otherwise in mid 15, especially if PS4 will receive also KH3 or FFXV aside Bloodborne, Persona 5, MGSV and DQHeroes.
 

shinra-bansho

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Nov 13, 2011
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sörine;129477908 said:
Game performance shouldn't alter publisher considerations? Consumer expectations are set by what's available, not the reverse. What you're suggesting here is circular logic and it isn't really supported by the market data. If PS4 was the expected Musou machine by consumers then it's titles shouldn't be selling as poorly as they would on Wii U or Xbox 360. If franchises like Tales, Ridge Racer, Musou or Metal Gear were inherently PlayStation franchises in consumers eyes then they all wouldn't have performed better on 3DS than Vita. The message coming from consumers doesn't line up all with what you're suggesting the expectation is. The results don't match.

The expectations here aren't being set by consumers at all, they're being set by publishers. And in the face of consumer results to the contrary publishers in many cases seem to be charging ahead as is pushing support one way. Publisher expectations are dictating support though, and it's not based on consumers.
Game performance can alter publisher considerations.
Changes in the market as a whole can alter publisher considerations.
Changes in consumer expectations can alter publisher considerations.

What message does one draw from these late ports not performing well on any platform? Does it signify that people no longer expect these types of games on PlayStation home consoles? Does it signify migration to other platforms? Does it signify a lack of interest in these games at all going forward?

Where's the next musou game going to be? PlayStation systems, namely their home consoles. I could have said that a year ago. I could have said that before the PS4 was announced. And I can still say that now.

What brand equity have Nintendo established whatsoever that would make a third party publisher keep pushing poor selling versions of their franchises on the platform?

These are relationships, expectations and associations built up over the course of a decade. They're not changing over the course of a few poor selling ports.

Opiate already said it better earlier in the thread:
This is about consumer and developer expectations. Due to a long history of just this sort of behavior, consumers expect the next Metal Gear and Final Fantasy and Devil May Cry and Resident Evil to be on the next Playstation system. Consumers plan for that before the games are even announced.

Nintendo has no such privilege; if a major third party game is announced for Nintendo's systems -- even successful ones like the 3DS -- it's a bit of a surprise. These sorts of expectations have real consequences. Sony and Microsoft haven't been bending over backwards for third parties for no reason; they aren't just trying to secure individual games (although that's also good), they're trying to set up expectations in consumers minds. Even in 2012, before anything was announced, I expected MGS5 to be on PS4, even though the game had not been announced, even though the PS4 had not been announced, and even though Konami is technically an independent company which could put the MGS franchise on any other system at any time they chose.

These sorts of expectations are a big deal, and it's something Nintendo has completely lacked for a decade or more now.
And it was roundly ignored.

This is without even considering what sort of incentives if any are in play from the platform holders.

A whole myriad of factors can affect publisher considerations, beyond third parties being the big bad wolf and trying to blow Nintendo down.
 

frankie_baby

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May 3, 2007
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Spinoff that was terrible game. Not really comparable to mainline games that use to sell around 400k on PS3 alone in Japan. That is more than most Musou games sell nowadays. PS4 has rather terrible line up for holiday season but not Vita 2012 bad.
I know, I just found it amusing that was the game you used for example, COD sells good in Japan now but that's on a huge installed base, when a struggling system with a very low installed base is relying on call of duty to carry it through the holidays it ain't gonna be pretty, sure it might sell a relatively good amount of copies simply as there's Fuck all else for ps4 owners to buy but I'd be shocked if it drives hardware at all
 

Aostia

El Capitan Todd
Sep 2, 2011
18,552
4
0
Uhm, but the point is that the Wii U already received significant games: New Mario, Pikmin, MarioKart8, DKTF (on paper); now we'll see Smash impact (even if, with the 3DS version....I think that in Japan this impact will be minimum). I honestly struggle to see in their upcoming lineup games with a bigger potential: Xenoblade was a 200k LTD franchise on the Wii, Zelda is declining on home console and in Japan is probably a 250k franchise at best, other games announced are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay smaller (I'm satisfied by their offer, more or less, but commercially...). We know that only N develop for Wii U (ok we got a Taiko, but even games that somehow we could have expected like MH4GU or Resident Evil Rev2 are skipping the console) and there is no big gun left (at least, no bigger gun than MK or Smash). On the other end, PS4 didn't see any significant release except Yakuza Ishin or MGSGZ. It will receive bigger guns (I thnk that MGSV will be bigger than Ground zero, for example, and probably also the new Yakuza will be somehow more "main" than Ishin), even exslusive (like Bloodborne or, I suppose, KH3 and FFXV? Xbone doesn't count anything in Japan)
 

Darius

Banned
Nov 22, 2013
942
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I think that the 3DS-Vita situation was/is very different. I've never perceived the 3DS as weaker, because of market reactions, lineup and first party perception: when we saw the streams cross, it was a positive peak for Vita and a negative average week for the 3DS. Here for Wii U and PS4 we have a different landscape: it seems to me that there is a latent potential in PS4 (please note: the terms should be related to the context of a very weak home console market in Japan), considering its debut numbers (very high considering the period of release, the price, the lack of exclusive Japanes-focused software, a PS3 still alive, while the Wii launch with slighlty lower numbers, near the Holidays, with a New Mario and Nintendoland), and the small reactions due to very weak (on paper) proposals (like the Fifa bundle or this week's 10k release) compared to the reactions we saw when N released games like Pikmin3 or MK8

You are probably right about the price

I think that if the Wii U will see Holiday bump as last year, the streams could cross around early 16, otherwise in mid 15, especially if PS4 will receive also KH3 or FFXV aside Bloodborne, Persona 5, MGSV and DQHeroes.
You specifically mentioned this week as an important week something like a turning point, I asked you why and your answer was because it outsold WiiU this week... Let´s ignore that WiiU sold more according to Media Create and less according to other trackers only by a minimal amount of some hundred units (it´s interesting that you picked the one you like the most instead of seeing that this week both consoles sold almost the same).

The reason I mentioned PSV-3DS was to show you that getting overexcited over a single week is unreasonable, the example was made because the difference was actually quite bigger than mere hundred units this week, I could also have chosen GC-PS2 for this very example, because I wasn´t comparing the overall picture but simply pointing out that this week is a very weak argument/point to make.

About your predictions, they are very optimistic to say the least. Even in the best case scenario of FFXV launching in 2015, I would be ready to exclude any possibility of PS4 surpassing WiiU in 2015. To suggest mid 2015 is simply wishful thinking in my opinion.
 

Aostia

El Capitan Todd
Sep 2, 2011
18,552
4
0
You specifically mentioned this week as an important week something like a turning point, I asked you why and your answer was because it outsold WiiU this week... Let´s ignore that WiiU sold more according to Media Create and less according to other trackers only by a minimal amount of some hundred units (it´s interesting that you picked the one you like the most instead of seeing that this week both consoles sold almost the same).

The reason I mentioned PSV-3DS was to show you that getting overexcited over a single week is unreasonable, the example was made because the difference was actually quite bigger than mere hundred units this week, I could also have chosen GC-PS2 for this very example, because I wasn´t comparing the overall picture but simply pointing out that this week is a very weak argument/point to make.

About your predictions, they are very optimistic to say the least. Even in the best case scenario of FFXV launching in 2015, I would be ready to exclude any possibility of PS4 surpassing WiiU in 2015. To suggest mid 2015 is simply wishful thinking in my opinion.
I didn't intend to point out this week as a turning point: I simply think that this week to me shows that those who were predicting a PS4 able to change weekly sales pace, unlike the Wii U, when significant titles will be released, were probably right, while I was more doubtful until last week. that's all.
I changed my mind about the topic seeing this week results, slightly different from the last weeks we saw.
About the wishful thinking, instead, I think that you slighlty misunderstood my approach to the topic ;)
 

Darius

Banned
Nov 22, 2013
942
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I didn't intend to point out this week as a turning point: I simply think that this week to me shows that those who were predicting a PS4 able to change weekly sales pace, unlike the Wii U, when significant titles will be released, were probably right, while I was more doubtful until last week. that's all.
I changed my mind about the topic seeing this week results, slightly different from the last weeks we saw.
About the wishful thinking, instead, I think that you slighlty misunderstood my approach to the topic ;)
Interesting, the post I replied to was clearly refering to this week.
So what is the approach? Making lofty predictions? ;)
 

sörine

Banned
Sep 1, 2013
7,582
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0
Game performance can alter publisher considerations.
Changes in the market as a whole can alter publisher considerations.
Changes in consumer expectations can alter publisher considerations.

What message does one draw from these late ports not performing well on any platform? Does it signify that people no longer expect these types of games on PlayStation home consoles? Does it signify migration to other platforms? Does it signify a lack of interest in these games at all going forward?

Where's the next musou game going to be? PlayStation systems, namely their home consoles. I could have said that a year ago. I could have said that before the PS4 was announced. And I can still say that now.

What brand equity have Nintendo established whatsoever that would make a third party publisher keep pushing poor selling versions of their franchises on the platform?

These are relationships, expectations and associations built up over the course of a decade. They're not changing over the course of a few poor selling ports.

Opiate already said it better earlier in the thread:
And it was roundly ignored.

This is without even considering what sort of incentives if any are in play from the platform holders.

A whole myriad of factors can affect publisher considerations, beyond third parties being the big bad wolf and trying to blow Nintendo down.
I did read Opiate's post, it was a direct response to me after all. And he did make good points including that it's developer/publisher decision making that's led consumer expectations historically. Not the reverse. We can trace this back to almost every major console (SFC, PS1, PS2, etc). For an example of a console making a strong case for consumers leading developers we have to go all the way back to Famicom. And we have a good case of each at odds with the other too for PS3 & Wii.

I sort of feel like you're arguing past me but I'll reiterate the issue. We seem to be at a point now where consumer results aren't necessairly lining up with traditional industry expectations. Key franchises long associated with PlayStation platforms now seem to be performing equally (console) or better (handheld) elsewhere. What we're seeing though is mostly publishers going ahead anyway and following those traditional expectations despite changing consumer attitudes. You talk about brand equity as guiding that, but performance indicates brand equity has shifted for consumers. It isn't consumers setting the expectation here today and the sales bear that out, it's the developers and publishers leading it without any real sales guidance.

I also think Nintendo shoulders a large degree of blame here and I implied that earlier. Opiate brings up good point bringing Microsoft into conversation too and they make a good case study in how to guide decisions for incentives, support, promotion, hardware design and what to pursue to gain traction with 3rd parties. No one thinks 3rd parties are "out to get Nintendo", that's a juvenile reduction and there is clearly more Nintendo should be doing. But at the same time it doesn't mean there isn't any inherent 3rd party bias at work. There self-evidently is and we've been talking about it, only we call it expectations.
 

KillerMan91

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I know, I just found it amusing that was the game you used for example, COD sells good in Japan now but that's on a huge installed base, when a struggling system with a very low installed base is relying on call of duty to carry it through the holidays it ain't gonna be pretty, sure it might sell a relatively good amount of copies simply as there's Fuck all else for ps4 owners to buy but I'd be shocked if it drives hardware at all
I just think that even though PS4 has pretty damn anemic release line up for holidays it's still better than what Vita had. Biggest debut on Vita between october and december in 2012 was Fate/Stay Night -Realta Nua with 30k units sold. That is criminally bad. There is difference between horrible and Vita 2012 holiday line ups lol.
 

Guymelef

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Seeing Comgnet, Destiny should make best numbers on PS3 (and nothing extraordinary), better in Famitsu rankings probably thanks to bundles copies.
 

hiska-kun

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Seeing Comgnet, Destiny should make best numbers on PS3 (and nothing extraordinary), better in Famitsu rankings probably thanks to bundles copies.
Seeing Amazon.jp Destiny should make best numbers on PS4. Seeing Tsutaya, the same, seeing GameMaya the same, seeing Sinobi, the same.

All this retailers reported good pre-orders.
 

Kresnik258

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Seeing Comgnet, Destiny should make best numbers on PS3 (and nothing extraordinary), better in Famitsu rankings probably thanks to bundles copies.
Ratio of PS3 sales on COMG won't be the same as PS4.

PS3 is a long-established console; PS4 isn't.

I'd say PS4 version will take it quite easily.
 

hiska-kun

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GamesMaya's Report: (first day sales ranking)

1. [PS4] Destiny (some people bought the hardware bundle too)
2. [PS3] Destiny (It's more popular between young students than the PS4 version)
3. [PS3] Naruto Shippuden (popular between fans)

The shop will open two hours before on Saturday 13th because lines are expected for Smash Bros for 3DS
 

Aostia

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Interesting, the post I replied to was clearly refering to this week.
So what is the approach? Making lofty predictions? ;)
I realy don't get wy you are so sensitive about my opinion on the matter: it's not that I can change the events :D
Yes, I was referring to this week: the results of THIS week show TO ME that PS4 is indeed stronger than Wii U in Japan, considering the different actual significant softwares available, and make me think that in the long term the PS4 will indeed sell more than Wii U.
Is this lofty?
 

shinra-bansho

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sörine;129491066 said:
We seem to be at a point now where consumer results aren't necessairly lining up with traditional industry expectations. Key franchises long associated with PlayStation platforms now seem to be performing equally (console) or better (handheld) elsewhere. What we're seeing though is mostly publishers going ahead anyway and following those traditional expectations despite changing consumer attitudes. You talk about brand equity as guiding that, but performance indicates brand equity has shifted for consumers. It isn't consumers setting the expectation here today and the sales bear that out, it's the developers and publishers leading it without any real sales guidance.
I'm not sure how one derives that these associations have diminished and/or changed based on some poorly performing ports. How exactly these poorly performing ports are indicative of a sea change in where consumers expect the franchise to continue.
Or how any significant brand equity has been established by these poorly performing ports towards the Wii consoles being associated with musou.

People aren't buying PS4s for late musou ports. They obviously aren't buying Wii Us for these either. But I'm not sure how from that a decision maker at Koei concludes that the audience for their next proper musou game has shifted - that audience for these titles has been split.

I'm not sure what other franchise you're referring to besides the musou games.

You called it "circular". Well it does cycle realistically, these factors all feed into each other and reinforce. Consumer expectations have been set by precedent, by significant investment on the part of platform holders and publishers. These expectations do play into purchase intent and decision-making, into audience building. The perception of audience leads to platform decisions, which reaffirm consumer expectations. Effects built up over decades.

Sony has been courting third parties and establishing their systems as the home of these games and more generally these types ("core" demographic) games for generations.

You can call it circular or self-fulfilling prophecy or bias or whatever else. But there isn't any onus on publishers to be "fair". There isn't any onus to set the tone and position of the platforms.
 

frankie_baby

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I just think that even though PS4 has pretty damn anemic release line up for holidays it's still better than what Vita had. Biggest debut on Vita between october and december in 2012 was Fate/Stay Night -Realta Nua with 30k units sold. That is criminally bad. There is difference between horrible and Vita 2012 holiday line ups lol.
While I agree the ps4 2014 holiday line up isn't as horrible as vita 2012 (nothing ever will be surely ?) It's not vastly less horrible
 

michaelius

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Seeing Comgnet, Destiny should make best numbers on PS3 (and nothing extraordinary), better in Famitsu rankings probably thanks to bundles copies.
So far most western games sold better on PS4 than on PS3 this year when both version released at the same time.