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[Vena]

A. It is excellent to have the market invigorated with new hardware launches. As a software publisher, we endeavor to develop games that offer enjoyment best suited to each piece of hardware's features and target users. Following first party, in order to introduce our own content we are currently moving forward with internal planning and analysis as a partner company.

Hum, I don't think this being read as intended above. The way the translation/clause structure lines up, it sounds more like (below) otherwise the "waiting on first party to make games, to make games" doesn't actually make sense. But taking the meaning of the preceding sentence and carrying it through to the last is far more logical. Truncated for succinctness:

"We want to develop games that best suit a hardware and target users. Following in the examples laid out by first party [and this relates to their note as a partner company], we are currently moving forward with internal planning."

It reads to me, very simply, as "we are working to follow the examples of first party software when making our games" and this very much would apply to the rather unique use-cases that the Switch provides with its dual-form factor. Nothing more or less.

 

[hiska-kun]

And rightly so. Why release your game on the platform with 0 sales when there's one out there with 40+ million?

Because ~75% of the sales come from Japan, and that +40 million system are just +3M. And since portability is the main of the series, the last Nintendo's handheld sold +3M in the first 10 months in the market.

Of course there's the possibility that Capcom wants to put a Toukiden 2 situation here.

 

[Sammy Samusu]

Here are Capcom's full statements on Nintendo Switch support. Capcom lists the English Q&A translations as supplemented with additional information: http://www.capcom.co.jp/ir/english/data/pdf/explanation/2016/2nd/explanation_2016_2nd_02.pdf

So people got banned for nothing?

 

[BluePikmin11]

I hear people are expecting Final Fantasy XV to reach 1 million units, isn't that close to the amount of people owning PS4s?

 

[DriftingSpirit]

I hear people are expecting Final Fantasy XV to reach 1 million units, isn't that close to the amount of people owning PS4s?

There are ~3.5M PS4s out in the wild.

 

[jett]

I hear people are expecting Final Fantasy XV to reach 1 million units, isn't that close to the amount of people owning PS4s?

FFXIII had a 35% attach rate on PS3. FFXV would have to sell 1.2 million units to match that. Not sure if that is doable or not, I imagine the brand power isn't what it used to be.

 

[saichi]

I hear people are expecting Final Fantasy XV to reach 1 million units, isn't that close to the amount of people owning PS4s?

I wonder where you can find this information in this thread...

 

[Ōkami]

Battlefield 1 is unfazed by Call of Duty on the digital charts.

The only version of Infintie Warfare to chart was the one that comes with Modern Warfare Remastered and did worse than both Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2 and Titanfall 2.

 

[cw_sasuke]

I disagree a bit. Obviously they need to control the message, which they've done well so far, but they're going too far in preventing third parties from confirming or not some of their plans. WiiU was a disaster obviously, but the Bethesda statement was just as bad for example...

Its either all or dont even bother - why would they have some 3rdParty reveal stuff why saving up some bigger announcements and their own ? Doesnt make sense, if some people can say Switch stuff every day we would get question - Publisher XYZ isnt saying anything...guess they arent supporting the system and so on. Also the system hasnt been fully unveiled yet - so announcing titles without the full context or being able to show every feature might not be the best plan.

You just have to realize that no one will be able to buy Switch software in the next months anyway - so why announce games during the busy Holiday season with all the attention on fall releases. Nintendo themselves is trying to sell those 3DS, Pokemon and NES Classic Editions.

Bethesda statement was just business as usual...nothing bad about it - the percentage of ppl. getting hung up on something like that is rather small. January will be relevant for announcements - everything else isnt worth a discussion.

 

[hiska-kun]

L~A requested this comparison two weeks ago (sorry for the delay).

3DS 2015 and 2016 weekly sales comparison, when 2DS was launched

2DS was launched in week 37, and since then, 2016 hardware sales have been outselling last year period.

 

[Chris1964]

Battlefield 1 is unfazed by Call of Duty on the digital charts.

The only version of Infintie Warfare to chart was the one that comes with Modern Warfare Remastered and did worse than both Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2 and Titanfall 2.

Well, Call of Duty took a break from rapid decline of last entries with BOIII (and it appears being BO was the reason) and this year the trend continues.

 

[Nirolak]

Square Enix has realized that it's hard to compete in the Western console market: http://www.hd.square-enix.com/eng/news/pdf/17q2earnings.pdf

(3) Qualitative information on consolidated business forecasts

The business environment surrounding the Group is in the midst of major changes, where consumer needs for content
suitable to smart devices such as smartphones and tablet PCs are rapidly expanding, while the console game markets
in North America and Europe are increasingly getting competitive and oligopolistic. The Group is focusing all efforts to
achieve growth coupled with profits on a solid revenue foundation through introduction of flexible content development
conforming to the ever-changing environment as well as diversification of profit opportunities.
Given the environmental changes described above, it is expected that the consolidated forecasts for financial results
will fluctuate ever-larger. The Group, therefore, has made consolidated forecasts in a range of forecasted figures in
lieu of specific figures.

 

[dracula_x]

Square Enix has realized that it's hard to compete in the Western console market: http://www.hd.square-enix.com/eng/news/pdf/17q2earnings.pdf

... the console game markets
in North America and Europe are increasingly getting competitive and oligopolistic ...

smartphones and tablet PCs market is the same, actually

 

[Nirolak]

smartphones and tablet PCs market is the same, actually

Well you see, Square Enix is a mobile juggernaut in Japan, so from their perspective, that doesn't matter, just like how EA, Ubisoft, and Activision don't really care that it's harder to launch console games, as they're the ones who benefit from that (the majority of the time).

 

[zeromcd73]

http://blog.hokanko-alt.com/archives/49954503.html

Bamco also posted their financial stuff.

Dark Souls 3 did really well for consoles. Idol Master Cinderella Girls star light stage continued doing really well in Japan on iOS/Android with Dragon Ball Z Dokkan iOS/Android battle also doing really well in Asia and the west. All and all mobile made them a shitton of money and it looks like tthey made more profit than Nintendo thanks to their successful mobile efforts.

Sales of Youkai Watch related products almost down 75% compared to the same time period last year. Every other product line (with the except of Power Rangers) went up or remained steady.

 

[Orgen]

Square Enix has realized that it's hard to compete in the Western console market: http://www.hd.square-enix.com/eng/news/pdf/17q2earnings.pdf

Final Fantasy XV could be the final nail in the coffin for the Triple A Square Enix JRPGs. Let's hope it's not the case! (but everything looks grim at the moment)

 

[duckroll]

Considering how boring FFXV looks, do we really need AAA JRPGs?

 

[Sammy Samusu]

I hate these region locked JP games.

Let me play Idol Masters already!

 

[Kanann]

AAA or not, I need 10 more Xenoblades (not X) and 100 Megatens before I die.

edit: Yeah, I need another 20 Soulsborne series too. and it's jRPG

 

[Orgen]

Considering how boring FFXV looks, do we really need AAA JRPGs?

That's the thing, SE should re-think everything about their franchises because right now is hard to imagine Final Fantasy XVI with the budget of Persona 5 or a Kingdom Hearts title with a Tales budget for example.

They are now the last stand for AAA JRPGs so I'd prefer if they don't stop making these but a part of me is really curious about how SE would react in case FF XV bombs (maybe they would revive some of their middle tier franchises? Ok, who am I kidding...)

 

[mao2]

I hate these region locked JP games.

Let me play Idol Masters already!

Go buy the ones for PS3 and PS4. They aren't region locked.

 

[duckroll]

That's the thing, SE should re-think everything about their franchises because right now is hard to imagine Final Fantasy XVI with the budget of Persona 5 or a Kingdom Hearts title with a Tales budget for example.

They are now the last stand for AAA JRPGs so I'd prefer if they don't stop making these but a part of me is really curious about how SE would react in case FF XV bombs (maybe they would revive some of their middle tier franchises? Ok, who am I kidding...)

The budget isn't even important. They need to rethink how to make their games exciting again. Fresh and interesting. Trying to chase popular checkboxes and things western games are way better at is not really helping that cause.

 

[Durante]

http://blog.hokanko-alt.com/archives/49954503.html

Bamco also posted their financial stuff.

Dark Souls 3 did really well for consoles. Idol Master Cinderella Girls star light stage continued doing really well in Japan on iOS/Android with Dragon Ball Z Dokkan iOS/Android battle also doing really well in Asia and the west. All and all mobile made them a shitton of money and it looks like tthey made more profit than Nintendo thanks to their successful mobile efforts.

Sales of Youkai Watch related products almost down 75% compared to the same time period last year. Every other product line (with the except of Power Rangers) went up or remained steady.

They did it low-key, but Bandai Namco is now easily one of the most successful Japanese publishers in the traditional gaming market in the West. While also squeezing every drop out of the Japanese mobile market at the same time. Quite impressive.

 

[Aostia]

2 millions YtD for the 2/3ds are a dream, now.

 

[Aters]

The budget isn't even important. They need to rethink how to make their games exciting again. Fresh and interesting. Trying to chase popular checkboxes and things western games are way better at is not really helping that cause.

Fresh and interesting for a niche market, repulsive and unrelatable for the mass. JRPG is in this weird situation that what JRPG fans want and what the mainstream what are often opposite to each other. SE will never make a mainline FF just to cater to a 1 million market. They will stop making Final Fantasy altogether, and with the divisive nature of the fanbase, this is the right thing to do.

 

[Orgen]

The budget isn't even important. They need to rethink how to make their games exciting again. Fresh and interesting. Trying to chase popular checkboxes and things western games are way better at is not really helping that cause.

Why do you think budget is not important? Seeing past sales predictions from SE (for their Eidos titles because I don't know their expectations for the Japanese titles) one would think that their budgets are quite big so the games need to sell several millions to become profitable. Scaling down the budget would allow them to try new things (not the "SO 5/DQ Joker 3" type of new things ) in the genre without too much risk money wise.

I'm with you in the "they need to rethink how to make their games exciting again" thing. They have become quite stale with their last offerings and I want more things like "The World Ends With You" for example. Unfortunately that didn't go well for them so maybe they thought it was better to focus on "classic" experiences again.

I don't know but I'm excited to see what's coming from SE in the future (unless everything is mobile, then I'll be a sad panda).

2 millions YtD for the 2/3ds are a dream, now.

Wait for the Pokemon boost. I think the 3DS family is capable of selling 500.000 units this december so everything isn't lost yet! ;D

 

[Oregano]

The budget isn't even important. They need to rethink how to make their games exciting again. Fresh and interesting. Trying to chase popular checkboxes and things western games are way better at is not really helping that cause.

 

[Pachael]

I hate these region locked JP games.

Let me play Idol Masters already!

I've been playing the PS4 Platinum Stars game. If you like rhythm games, and the 765Pro team, it's good enough - there's not much of a story mode though if that's what you're looking for. That's region free.

The popular Cinderella Girls Starlight Stage is JP-only, but there are workarounds to play it. Also rhythm based, it focuses on the Cinderella Girls and has 'story' locked behind player levels and regular events. Uses a free-to-play gacha model for microtransactions.

They did it low-key, but Bandai Namco is now easily one of the most successful Japanese publishers in the traditional gaming market in the West. While also squeezing every drop out of the Japanese mobile market at the same time. Quite impressive.

Unlike many of their peers, they've run the table in PC, mobile, consoles and to a smaller extent arcade (Tekken7) whilst maintaining or holding on to a number of big IPs that they are making mad money off as per the report (Gundam, Dragon Ball, One Piece etc).

 

[Vena]

Square Enix has realized that it's hard to compete in the Western console market: http://www.hd.square-enix.com/eng/news/pdf/17q2earnings.pdf

So, is this the point where we can officially put "the west will save it" in its grave? The oligarchical split in the west is starting to suffocate itself, let alone niche or even just non-AAAA titles.

 

[Nirolak]

So, is this the point where we can officially put "the west will save it" in its grave? The oligarchical split in the west is starting to suffocate itself, let alone niche or even just non-AAAA titles.

I think on the whole, it's not something that applies to a lot of products and isn't a solution to market wide issues (at least with how products are designed today), but I do think it's something that makes sense to assess on individual games.

Like if Zelda: Breath of the Wild or Resident Evil 7 looked like they will tank in Japan, I don't think that's necessarily a problem for those products.

 

[Vena]

I think on the whole, it's not something that applies to a lot of products and isn't a solution to market wide issues (at least with how products are designed today), but I do think it's something that makes sense to assess on individual games.

Like if Zelda: Breath of the Wild or Resident Evil 7 looked like they will tank in Japan, I don't think that's necessarily a problem for those products.

Sure. There are exceptions, some titles like Zelda or the Soul series thrive in the west, but I was specifically talking to the claim that was, in effect, the same exaggeration as "99% digital". Where the idea that the west will do anything for most any general title that was already struggling even in its strongest [home] market (where categorically unlike Zelda or Souls, home has been the strongest market) was anything but an idea fetched right out of the minotaur's labyrinth.

I've said it before, but about the only real case-scenario of the west "saving a title" (and really, it was just having uncharacteristically high success relative to its home release) was years ago with Bravely Default, and that success got flushed right down the toilet. Since then, its been one more duck on the shooting gallery line. Also more recently DB:Xenoverse. (And Fire Emblem but it is a Nintendo title, and I am not including those on the wide swathe.)

That's all of two titles/franchises.

I'd also generally just not include Nintendo titles since they have a habit of existing in their own possibility-space with market-bending properties like Splatoon, Mario Kart, or Smash.

 

[AlucardGV]

Localize the Yahari game please

 

[CrispyBoar]

The budget isn't even important. They need to rethink how to make their games exciting again. Fresh and interesting. Trying to chase popular checkboxes and things western games are way better at is not really helping that cause.

One way to bring Final Fantasy back to glory on consoles (in other words, make FF great and memorable again), is to make the gameplay all Turn-Based or ATB-based again. That is what most FF fans like myself care about, not real time gameplay like with FF XII or Action-based.

Second, stop westernizing the series. It's a huge turn-off to Japanese gamers & is another reason why FF has such a bad reputation there.

Third, make memorable characters & a great story.

 

[random25]

The budget isn't even important. They need to rethink how to make their games exciting again. Fresh and interesting. Trying to chase popular checkboxes and things western games are way better at is not really helping that cause.

The magic of Final Fantasy somewhat diminished with the departure of Sakaguchi and other key people.

I feel like SE needs to make a new AAA JRPG that no longer holds that Final Fantasy name. Being a Final Fantasy carries a certain expectation from fans when it comes to gameplay mechanics, story, characters, etc. Had FFXV not been a Final Fantasy game, I feel like it would be carrying more buzz than skepticism right now because people will look at it from a "fresh" perspective.

 

[Nirolak]

Sure. There are exceptions, some titles like Zelda or the Soul series thrive in the west, but I was specifically talking to the claim that was, in effect, the same exaggeration as "99% digital". Where the idea that the west will do anything for most any general title that was already struggling even in its strongest [home] market (where categorically unlike Zelda or Souls, home has been the strongest market) was anything but an idea fetched right out of the minotaur's labyrinth.

I've said it before, but about the only real case-scenario of the west "saving a title" (and really, it was just having uncharacteristically high success relative to its home release) was years ago with Bravely Default, and that success got flushed right down the toilet. Since then, its been one more duck on the shooting gallery line. Also more recently DB:Xenoverse. (And Fire Emblem but it is a Nintendo title, and I am not including those on the wide swathe.)

That's all of two titles/franchises.

I'd also generally just not include Nintendo titles since they have a habit of existing in their own possibility-space with market-bending properties like Splatoon, Mario Kart, or Smash.

I guess the way I'd put my position is that, unless there's a strong reason to believe that the core game design and setup of a title is something that would succeed overseas, it doesn't make sense to assume it would succeed overseas by virtue of existing.

Toward this end, I would not expect Berserk to having meaningful overseas sales (even if moving 100K or whatever is a "great result" in Koei's opinion), but I would expect Nioh to have reasonable success given how Souls games have performed, and that this is clearly a well made product in the same general genre.

Products like Nioh are pretty few and far between though.

For the other use case, if something is a bottom basement licensed title like Bandai Namco makes where 50K is literally actually a fine result, then any additional sales are clearly gravy, but much like Square Enix, these are not the games that make Bandai Namco a success, and I don't think they're the kind of titles that are meaningful to worry about.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

So, is this the point where we can officially put "the west will save it" in its grave? The oligarchical split in the west is starting to suffocate itself, let alone niche or even just non-AAAA titles.

Not even close. On a case by case basis, these games can still have success (and in SE's case probably will). Though I am sure SE wishes it was part of the big 4 in the West.

 

[convo]

The budget isn't even important. They need to rethink how to make their games exciting again. Fresh and interesting. Trying to chase popular checkboxes and things western games are way better at is not really helping that cause.

Makes me think about how the Yakuza games are truly made in their own microcosm. Close to zero attention spent on even acknowledging western game designs, and making its own evolutionary side-path. Recruiting cats for cat-cafes in Yakuza 6 sure is a weird thing.

 

[Chris1964]

I think on the whole, it's not something that applies to a lot of products and isn't a solution to market wide issues (at least with how products are designed today), but I do think it's something that makes sense to assess on individual games.

Like if Zelda: Breath of the Wild or Resident Evil 7 looked like they will tank in Japan, I don't think that's necessarily a problem for those products.

S-E probably refers to the other efforts of them trying to expand sales of Japanese IPs. Apparently sales of DQ spin-offs or other small mid-tiers weren't the expected and we could see another change at their strategy (again).

If FFXV fails to meet expectations that's another issue and will have bigger impact at the company.

 

[mckmas8808]

S-E probably refers to the other efforts of them trying to expand sales of Japanese IPs. Apparently sales of DQ spin-offs or other small mid-tiers weren't the expected and we could see another change at their strategy (again).

If FFXV fails to meet expectations that's another issue and will have bigger impact at the company.

Maybe the issue is the expectations then.

 

[sphinx]

T a part of me is really curious about how SE would react in case FF XV bombs (maybe they would revive some of their middle tier franchises? Ok, who am I kidding...)

I am serious when I say I'd buy a mid-tier, low-budget-on-a-nintendo-handheld Mana game

 

[Nirolak]

S-E probably refers to the other efforts of them trying to expand sales of Japanese IPs. Apparently sales of DQ spin-offs or other small mid-tiers weren't the expected and we could see another change at their strategy (again).

If FFXV fails to meet expectations that's another issue and will have bigger impact at the company.

I actually think they're referring to the relatively poor sales of Tomb Raider and Deus Ex, though I don't think the mid-tier games are doing especially well either.

However, that they also (effectively) lowered future expectations suggests to me that they're concerned about FFXV.

They even think that their operating income might be flat with last year despite quite the increase in net sales, not to mention the profit column for the holding company potentially going down:

 

[Vena]

I actually think they're referring to the relatively poor sales of Tomb Raider and Deus Ex, though I don't think the mid-tier games are doing especially well either.

Well DX:MD was a fairly unmitigated disaster on all fronts, and I can't imagine TR is going to light anything on fire after the stunt with timed exclusivity. And any one of these projects probably cost more than all of the middle-tier projects put together... and then multiplied by a number somewhere around 1<<x<10.

 

[lupinko]

The game most comparable to what Berserk was trying to do (making a Musou game for older gamers who liked a relatively ancient manga/anime) would be Fist of the North Star Musou, which debuted at 385,295 copies.

Berserk isn't ancient though, it's a long running manga (that hasn't ended) and it had a new anime this year and will get another next year.

Hokuto no Ken is an old IP that's done and is being milked for its brand awareness.

The better argument is making a Musou game based on an IP that is ultra violent for an older audience.

 

[Mory Dunz]

Considering how boring FFXV looks, do we really need AAA JRPGs?

Well there's another Xeno in development so ask again in 2021

 

[rhandino]

Xeno

"AAA"

 

[Edge_Maverick]

I actually think they're referring to the relatively poor sales of Tomb Raider and Deus Ex, though I don't think the mid-tier games are doing especially well either.

However, that they also (effectively) lowered future expectations suggests to me that they're concerned about FFXV.

They even think that their operating income might be flat with last year despite quite the increase in net sales, not to mention the profit column for the holding company potentially going down:

Just some "corrections" here (not really). First, that oligopolistic comment is not actually new (but it's certainly making more and more sense). S-E just keep using "copy/paste" for that same text in every financial result.

This is from Aug. 2013 -> and it was already there: http://www.hd.square-enix.com/eng/news/pdf/14q1earnings.pdf

3) Qualitative information on consolidated business forecasts

The business environment surrounding the Group is in the midst of major changes, where smart devices such as smartphones and tablet PCs are spreading rapidly, while the console game markets in North America and Europe are increasingly competitive and oligopolistic. In light of such environmental changes, the Group is focusing all efforts on a substantial earnings improvement by driving reforms of its business structure in order to establish new revenue bases.
Given the environmental changes described above, it is expected that the consolidated forecasts for financial results will fluctuate ever-larger. The Group, therefore, has decided to make consolidated forecasts in a range of forecasted figures in lieu of specific figures, starting from the fiscal year ending March 31, 2014.

Second, they haven't lowered expectations for the full year after Q2's results. Since 2014 (iirc) they are going with this range thing for financial results. Here you can find FY/2017's projections for the first time, and they are exacty the same as before:

http://www.hd.square-enix.com/eng/news/pdf/16q4earnings.pdf

Now, to actually reach those numbers, I guess they better hope XV succeds and then get at least a couple of big mobile hits in Japan, since the last one was Grimms Notes (and frankly, it's not doing that hot anymore for 6+ months already). Last year we saw the release of 4/5 mobile hits in Japan (most of those in the year's second half), and Deus Ex's delay meant pretty much nothing for the financial side (it flopped, yeah, but who could really tell at that point?). It's gonna be a very interesting 2nd half.

 

[Mory Dunz]

Xeno

"AAA"

What else is there outside of FF then?

Pokemon's budget with marketing i guess?

 

[Man God]

Zelda Breath of the Wild.

 

[rhandino]

What else is there outside of FF then?

Pokemon's budget with marketing i guess?

Dragon Quest XI may be one... but I legit don't know if they would do a XenoX in which the game kind of looks expensive but you start to notice all the places in which they cut corners which resulted in a more modest budget.

Zelda Breath of the Wild.

While Zelda: BoTW seems to be a very expensive endeavor for Nintendo I don't think is as expensive to make as, let's say, Assassin's Creed.

 

[Sandfox]

What else is there outside of FF then?

Pokemon's budget with marketing i guess?

SE's console games and that's probably it.