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Media Create Sales: Week 51, 2014 (Dec 15 - Dec 21)

IIRC it was because PSP was dying software-wise and the team had to make the game multi with PSV.



Of course, the fact that the genre was barely alive played a factor, as for platforms. During last generation, though, many companies developed tRPG on handheld, such as Atlus (which is porting Devil Survivor on 3DS anyway), Level-5 (Jean d'Arc), Square Enix (FFTA2, Front Mission, IIRC even Valkyrie Profile was a tRPG on DS?), Sega (Valkyria Chronicles moved to PSP at a certain point), AQI (Blue Dragon Plus), even Nintendo outside its most notable franchises (ASH).

It just sounds weird that when a tRPG could finally succeed in a mass-market way, almost no one is going to serve that audience.
I guess this ultimately feeds back into my feeling that there aren't a lot of aggressive Japanese publishers.

The above series aren't really big, but you're right, no one felt compelled to go "Well Fire Emblem blew up so why don't I try to muscle in on that growth too?"
 

Pennywise83

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I'm guessing it's a scale of economics issue.

Western publishers don't want to sell 300K on the off platform instead of chasing 3 million on the main one.

The decision to make STEAM was kind of interesting since it almost looks like it's trying to target the West but with a stylistic approach that doesn't quite understand the market correctly.
IS has a tradition in appealing the West with weird designs; Advance Wars has always been quite big in the States, debuting at 200k units with almost all entries. This probably played a role.
 

Oregano

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I'm guessing it's a scale of economics issue.

Western publishers don't want to sell 300K on the off platform instead of chasing 3 million on the main one.

The decision to make STEAM was kind of interesting since it almost looks like it's trying to target the West but with a stylistic approach that doesn't quite understand the market correctly.
Yeah, STEAM almost looks like they asked Ubisoft what the western market likes because they love those faux-comic book cutscenes.

The thing I'm most curious about with STEAM is whether it will actually use the C-stick on the New 3DS. It's seems obvious but I feel they possibly would have held off on showing so much of the game if it was getting N3DS enhancements.
 

crinale

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I'm guessing it's a scale of economics issue.

Western publishers don't want to sell 300K on the off platform instead of chasing 3 million on the main one.

The decision to make STEAM was kind of interesting since it almost looks like it's trying to target the West but with a stylistic approach that doesn't quite understand the market correctly.
If that was your point then, I think it has more to do with business practice in Japan...
That is, that 300K you are talking about would act like a speculation.
If you invest that money to get 3mil sales on main platform, that's fine but you would never be able to jump on to that minor platform again, regardless of how the situation changes afterwards.

Edit: This is possible by only large publishers of course.
 

Oregano

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I feel Advance Wars looked a bit more on target artistically, but you're probably right about the core thought process.
I think Nintendo would have been better off getting someone like NST or N-Space to make an FPS if they were really going for a western audience.
 

duckroll

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My general feeling is that when playing the "why isn't x on y since something similar to x sold well on y" game, often the perspective of the discussion becomes extremely narrow and ignores several factors in reality.

It is extremely easy to say "Hmmm, Fire Emblem sold 500k on the 3DS, clearly there is an audience for this sort of game if done well on the platform, we have an IP which used to be right up the alley here, let's do that." in an isolated and detached way. Does it make sure? Yes. Would such a project be profitable? Certainly. But does this actually apply to the business reality of the companies who could be making this statement at the time? Probably not.

Game development can take 2-3 years to complete, especially when there isn't a smooth and regularly tested development cycle for that project type. A developer who regularly makes the same type of the games every year or every other year would be in a better position than a developer who has to make something they have never made before or hasn't made in a long time.

To make a good game in a given genre, you also need people who know how to do that. I would say the reason why Strategy RPGs seem rare is because good SRPGs are hard to make. Even if we go back to the "golden age" in Japan, the ones we remember the best would be TO/FFT (Matsuno), TO:KoL/FFTA/FFTA2 (ex-Quest), Fire Emblem (IS), Tear Ring/Berwick (ex-IS), Arc the Lad/Front Mission (G-Craft), Langrisser/Growlanser (Masaya). These are the ones which sold the most off the top of my head, and they all basically originate from a few core developers - Quest, IS, G-Craft, and Masaya. There were a lot more junk in the genre in the past too, but most of them didn't really sell much. In today's climate, since everything already sells less, publishers who aren't going to put effort into making something great in this genre are more likely to just go the mobile route.

There are still a number of SRPGs made regularly which don't sell anything like FE though, so that's also a sign that it's not a pressing demand in the genre itself, but a demand for something like FE in particular done well. Disgaea, other Nippon Ichi games, tons of Idea Factory games, Sting games, even the Devil Survivor series from Atlus. They exist, they're just niche. So publishers are also going to look at that and consider that FE is an anomaly rather than a representation of the demand for the genre.

As for what happened to the people who used to make the biggest SRPGs I mentioned above, well, I think a bunch of them just moved on. Matsuno has left S-E and Level5, he's completely freelance now and doesn't seem to want to commit to a major project anytime soon. The ex-Quest guys who made FFTA have all been absorbed into the FFXIV team as Nirolak mentioned. The G-Craft team which joined Square Enix used to be headed up by Tsuchida, but after FFXIII he left the company and joined one of the big mobile cash-in companies. I have no idea what happened to the Tear Ring/Berwick guy, he seems to have just given up after Berwick Saga. The remains of Masaya staff who worked on Growlanser back in the day was absorbed into Atlus, they're the people making the Devil Survivor games. Hardly as popular as Langrisser was though, so I doubt Atlus is looking to push the series much more. I hope they do though.

So yeah, that's basically why I think big SRPG titles are kinda dead. It's a hard genre to really make well in a way that really appeals to a larger (>200-300k) audience, and the talent the industry had to make such titles have drastically contracted. It would be nice if new talent popped up able to do that, but I guess publishers aren't interested in taking that risk when there are lots of other things they can put resources towards instead.
 

Chris1964

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YSO predictions

Week 1, 2015 (Dec 29 - Jan 4)

1. Yo-kai Watch 2: Shin Uchi >= 150k
2. Pokemon Omega Ruby / Alpha Sapphire >= 100k
3. Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS <= 70k
 

Oregano

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That's excellent point Duckroll. I feel a lack of pressure might play a part in it as well. There's no real concern that they will be missing out if no one else is pursuing the opportunity.

On the flipside(and to give a 3DS example) Tekken 3D was almost surely produced solely on the basis that Street Fighter and Dead or Alive were on the 3DS and Bamco didn't want to be seen as missing out.

EDIT: Saying that Atlus should have got Break Record out long ago and we should be on Devil Survivor 3(D) by now.
 

duckroll

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That's excellent point Duckroll. I feel a lack of pressure might play a part in it as well. There's no real concern that they will be missing out if no one else is pursuing the opportunity.

On the flipside(and to give a 3DS example) Tekken 3D was almost surely produced solely on the basis that Street Fighter and Dead or Alive were on the 3DS and Bamco didn't want to be seen as missing out.
I think it's also worth noting that for fighting games, they already exist on other platforms, so it's just a matter of porting or adapting existing characters, movesets, and systems onto a portable space. If there were a bunch of big SRPGs on consoles regularly today, we'll probably have seen them ported or adapted to 3DS after FE did well too, because it would be much easier than making a new SRPG from ground up.
 

Chris1964

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I saw I create these threads since December 2009. I don't plan to move from these anytime soon but when this time comes wonder if there is anyone with willing and experience to take my place. Road and donny are the only I can think and it looks I was one of the last who joined this forum having a database.
 
That's excellent point Duckroll. I feel a lack of pressure might play a part in it as well. There's no real concern that they will be missing out if no one else is pursuing the opportunity.

On the flipside(and to give a 3DS example) Tekken 3D was almost surely produced solely on the basis that Street Fighter and Dead or Alive were on the 3DS and Bamco didn't want to be seen as missing out.

EDIT: Saying that Atlus should have got Break Record out long ago and we should be on Devil Survivor 3(D) by now.
I'm kind of assuming they're the people making SMT x FE.

I'd be surprised if they had enough staff to really do two titles at once even if we assume Atlus is interested in SRPGs for the long haul.
 

Oregano

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I think it's also worth noting that for fighting games, they already exist on other platforms, so it's just a matter of porting or adapting existing characters, movesets, and systems onto a portable space. If there were a bunch of big SRPGs on consoles regularly today, we'll probably have seen them ported or adapted to 3DS after FE did well too, because it would be much easier than making a new SRPG from ground up.
That's definitely true. DOA: Dimensions and Tekken 3D are both clearly based on DOA4 and Tekken 6.

I'm kind of assuming they're the people making SMT x FE.

I'd be surprised if they had enough staff to really do two titles at once even if we assume Atlus is interested in SRPGs for the long haul.
I think that was the assumption everyone made to explain Break Record vanishing but that has since resurfaced and we've seen nothing of SMT x FE. On a semi-related note is there any indication as to what the SMTIV team are doing?(Part of the Persona 5 team?)
 

FluxWaveZ

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On a semi-related note is there any indication as to what the SMTIV team are doing?(Part of the Persona 5 team?)
Team Maniax is a different team than P Studio, who are working on their own thing and not P5. Indications:

- Issen Yamai (Atlus Director):
I think 2014 will be a year of preparation for the Maniax team and I. We&#8217;re working here and there on the next title. You won&#8217;t be hearing from us for a while, you might think we left office or died. (Laughs)
- Deviliser trademark filed by Index Corp. on October 3rd, 2013 which hasn't seemed to have resurfaced.
 
That's definitely true. DOA: Dimensions and Tekken 3D are both clearly based on DOA4 and Tekken 6.



I think that was the assumption everyone made to explain Break Record vanishing but that has since resurfaced and we've seen nothing of SMT x FE. On a semi-related note is there any indication as to what the SMTIV team are doing?(Part of the Persona 5 team?)
I'm assuming that it was actually shelved and Sega just put it back in development when they bought them since they had a relatively done game and Sega could hire more staff for Atlus as needed anyway since Sega isn't going bankrupt like Index was.
 

Kresnik258

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This.

And good that they changed it too since shit would have bombed hard with that ugly as fuck "Nomura" look they were trying to go for. Since they would have ripped out the largest part of the games design that made it stand out, the character design / style.
I always assumed the reason God Eater 2 went radio silent was for the reason Pennywise mentioned, that they were also working on a Vita version.

I didn't realise there was a backlash about the character designs. What was the problem?
 

Kresnik258

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They looked like they belonged in a Nomura Final Fantasy game:

God Eater has more of a generic Tales of anime look.
Haha. I've played Gods Eater Burst for about 30 hours, I'm well up on what the characters look like :p

I just didn't realise they were originally like that. Everything I'd seen from the game had updated characters from GEB that didn't look out of place (iirc, Alisa and Kota were featured quite a lot on the media I'd seen).

But blimey. That screenshot you posted doesn't look like God Eater at all. That would certainly explain the absence if they had to go back to the drawing board with that.

When was that stuff shown off?
 

Pennywise83

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duckroll surely has a good point.

Then my question is, who exactly bought Awakening? 500k units are a lot, and definitely out of the niche the genre has been for years. FE is generally a bit more popular, but latest entries didn't sell more than 250k units. Also, I don't see much userbase overlapping with other traditional Nintendo IPs; for example, I can see kids buying Mario platform and Mario Kart, or those who buy Animal Crossing also buying Tomodachi Life and Mario, but FE belongs to a specific genre that doesn't appeal to everyone. It would be interesting to understand where these gamers went; did they dissipate through some of 3DS jRPGs such as Bravely Default and Shin Megami Tensei?

That's excellent point Duckroll. I feel a lack of pressure might play a part in it as well. There's no real concern that they will be missing out if no one else is pursuing the opportunity.

On the flipside(and to give a 3DS example) Tekken 3D was almost surely produced solely on the basis that Street Fighter and Dead or Alive were on the 3DS and Bamco didn't want to be seen as missing out.

EDIT: Saying that Atlus should have got Break Record out long ago and we should be on Devil Survivor 3(D) by now.
My impression is that DS2:BR exists because Sega is planning a DS3 at the end of the year or early 2016. DS is surely a niche IP, but it has a quite cult following, and both DS entries sold similarly.
 

FluxWaveZ

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My impression is that DS2:BR exists because Sega is planning a DS3 at the end of the year or early 2016. DS is surely a niche IP, but it has a quite cult following, and both DS entries sold similarly.
Atlus has a lot going on right now; that doesn't sound right.
 

Vena

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Atlus has a lot going on right now; that doesn't sound right.
Their drumming up support for the secret announced of P5 being on the 3DS/WiiU as well, obviously. <.>

More seriously, though, we have EO-V some time in the near future as well for them, and I have to wonder where the hell they are finding all these developers for all these games.
 

duckroll

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Their drumming up support for the secret announced of P5 being on the 3DS/WiiU as well, obviously. <.>

More seriously, though, we have EO-V some time in the near future as well for them, and I have to wonder where the hell they are finding all these developers for all these games.
What exactly are "all these games"? Persona Q and EOU2 are both out. That's where the majority of the EOV developers will be from. Devil Survivor is developed by people who used to make Growlanser. The Persona people are working on Persona 5. The SMTIV people are working on something else. EOMD is developed by Spike Chunsoft. P4D is mostly developed by Dingo.
 

Vena

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What exactly are "all these games"? Persona Q and EOU2 are both out. That's where the majority of the EOV developers will be from. Devil Survivor is developed by people who used to make Growlanser. The Persona people are working on Persona 5. The SMTIV people are working on something else. EOMD is developed by Spike Chunsoft. P4D is mostly developed by Dingo.
Oh, then I didn't know so many titles were developed by notAtlus. My apologies.
 

Eolz

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That's definitely true. DOA: Dimensions and Tekken 3D are both clearly based on DOA4 and Tekken 6.
DOA:D is a strange case, since it looks like 4 (well, as much as the 3DS can allow that) but is a compilation of the 4 first games, and with a gameplay closer to 5 than 4.
They probably used it to test some mechanics before the release of 5.
 

FluxWaveZ

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What exactly are "all these games"? Persona Q and EOU2 are both out. That's where the majority of the EOV developers will be from. Devil Survivor is developed by people who used to make Growlanser. The Persona people are working on Persona 5. The SMTIV people are working on something else. EOMD is developed by Spike Chunsoft. P4D is mostly developed by Dingo.
I am ignorant of the people behind Devil Survivor, but recall that the work behind P4D mostly moved to the P Studio development team after something concerning the Dingo partnership dissolved.

Like you said, P Studio would be P5 and P4D. Team Maniax is busy with their own thing. Then the EO team would be busy with EOV (and I imagine they're at least engaging somewhat with EMD). Then for an outright announced game, there's SMTxFE. Then, for lesser mentioned ones, there are the new IP they've got in development as well as their 2017 game. There are two outstanding, game related Atlus trademarks that could be part of those, too, or something else.

Perhaps not an excessive amount for their team of ~200 employees, though it does seem like a lot.
 

duckroll

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I am ignorant of the people behind Devil Survivor, but recall that the work behind P4D mostly moved to the P Studio development team after something concerning the Dingo partnership dissolved.
Dingo is still developing the game. The partnership didn't dissolve. The development is clearly troubled though, so the game has been delayed and Atlus has to dedicate some resources to make sure they don't release a turd.
 

FluxWaveZ

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Dingo is still developing the game. The partnership didn't dissolve. The development is clearly troubled though, so the game has been delayed and Atlus has to dedicate some resources to make sure they don't release a turd.
Yeah, that's pretty much what I mean, but it's clear that the ball's now in P Studio's court instead of Dingo's (though P Studio was quite involved from the start); they say they've taken primary responsibility for its development, and the staff changes with Kazuhisa Wada becoming the director and such suggest as much that Dingo is really just in an assistance role now (if that's even accurate). There's also the weird stuff that happened with Atlus taking down the first trailer which mentioned a collaboration, removing the Dingo name from the P4D website and marketing materials, and not mentioning Dingo at all in the second trailer.
 

Moor-Angol

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Comgnet inFamous chart Week 52

01. [3DS] Youkai Watch 2.5 - 681pt
02. [3DS] Pokemon ORASecond - 207pt
03. [3DS] Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS - 144pt
04. [3DS] Monster Hunter 4G - 124pt
05. [3DS] Final Fantasy Explorer's - 111pt
06. [WiiU] Super Smash Bros. for WiiU - 98pt
07. [3DS] Youkai Dominator 2 - 68pt
08. [Vita] magic School high school dunce Out of Order - 66pt
09. [Vita] Gundam Breaker 2 - 61pt
10. [PS3] Gundam Breaker 2 - 46pt
11. [Vita] Phantasy Star Nova - 41pt
12. [WiiU] promoted Toad captain -! 33pt
13. [3DS] Aikatsu 365 days of idle Days - 33pt
14. [3DS] Sales-Ages beloved Nippon Colombia game - 31pt
15. [3DS] Animal Crossing: New Leaf - 27pt
16. [3DS] Attack on Titans - the human race last Tsubasa ~ CHAIN - 26pt
17. [3DS] of your local railway ~ Gotochi character and Japan journey ~ - 26pt


Would be interesting if Breaker 2 PSV > PS3 confirmed
 

vinnygambini

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Comgnet inFamous chart Week 52

01. [3DS] Youkai Watch 2.5 - 681pt
02. [3DS] Pokemon ORASecond - 207pt
03. [3DS] Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS - 144pt
04. [3DS] Monster Hunter 4G - 124pt
05. [3DS] Final Fantasy Explorer's - 111pt
06. [WiiU] Super Smash Bros. for WiiU - 98pt
07. [3DS] Youkai Dominator 2 - 68pt
08. [Vita] magic School high school dunce Out of Order - 66pt
09. [Vita] Gundam Breaker 2 - 61pt
10. [PS3] Gundam Breaker 2 - 46pt
11. [Vita] Phantasy Star Nova - 41pt
12. [WiiU] promoted Toad captain -! 33pt
13. [3DS] Aikatsu 365 days of idle Days - 33pt
14. [3DS] Sales-Ages beloved Nippon Colombia game - 31pt
15. [3DS] Animal Crossing: New Leaf - 27pt
16. [3DS] Attack on Titans - the human race last Tsubasa ~ CHAIN - 26pt
17. [3DS] of your local railway ~ Gotochi character and Japan journey ~ - 26pt


Would be interesting if Breaker 2 PSV > PS3 confirmed
I see what you did there :eek:
 

Pennywise83

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That's excellent point Duckroll. I feel a lack of pressure might play a part in it as well. There's no real concern that they will be missing out if no one else is pursuing the opportunity.

On the flipside(and to give a 3DS example) Tekken 3D was almost surely produced solely on the basis that Street Fighter and Dead or Alive were on the 3DS and Bamco didn't want to be seen as missing out.

EDIT: Saying that Atlus should have got Break Record out long ago and we should be on Devil Survivor 3(D) by now.
Comgnet inFamous chart Week 52

01. [3DS] Youkai Watch 2.5 - 681pt
02. [3DS] Pokemon ORASecond - 207pt
03. [3DS] Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS - 144pt
04. [3DS] Monster Hunter 4G - 124pt
05. [3DS] Final Fantasy Explorer's - 111pt
06. [WiiU] Super Smash Bros. for WiiU - 98pt
07. [3DS] Youkai Dominator 2 - 68pt
08. [Vita] magic School high school dunce Out of Order - 66pt
09. [Vita] Gundam Breaker 2 - 61pt
10. [PS3] Gundam Breaker 2 - 46pt
11. [Vita] Phantasy Star Nova - 41pt
12. [WiiU] promoted Toad captain -! 33pt
13. [3DS] Aikatsu 365 days of idle Days - 33pt
14. [3DS] Sales-Ages beloved Nippon Colombia game - 31pt
15. [3DS] Animal Crossing: New Leaf - 27pt
16. [3DS] Attack on Titans - the human race last Tsubasa ~ CHAIN - 26pt
17. [3DS] of your local railway ~ Gotochi character and Japan journey ~ - 26pt


Would be interesting if Breaker 2 PSV > PS3 confirmed
3DSomination confirmed. Even the mascotte party game is selling well.
 

Jamix012

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I wonder how the first party attach rate of Wii U is compared to other Nintendo consoles. IE how does the Nintendo games per console compare to the Gamecube and such.
 

Psycho_Mantis

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Jul 28, 2012
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Comgnet inFamous chart Week 52

01. [3DS] Youkai Watch 2.5 - 681pt
02. [3DS] Pokemon ORASecond - 207pt
03. [3DS] Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS - 144pt
04. [3DS] Monster Hunter 4G - 124pt
05. [3DS] Final Fantasy Explorer's - 111pt
06. [WiiU] Super Smash Bros. for WiiU - 98pt
07. [3DS] Youkai Dominator 2 - 68pt
08. [Vita] magic School high school dunce Out of Order - 66pt
09. [Vita] Gundam Breaker 2 - 61pt
10. [PS3] Gundam Breaker 2 - 46pt
11. [Vita] Phantasy Star Nova - 41pt
12. [WiiU] promoted Toad captain -! 33pt
13. [3DS] Aikatsu 365 days of idle Days - 33pt
14. [3DS] Sales-Ages beloved Nippon Colombia game - 31pt
15. [3DS] Animal Crossing: New Leaf - 27pt
16. [3DS] Attack on Titans - the human race last Tsubasa ~ CHAIN - 26pt
17. [3DS] of your local railway ~ Gotochi character and Japan journey ~ - 26pt


Would be interesting if Breaker 2 PSV > PS3 confirmed
wut
 

Mory Dunz

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Jun 12, 2012
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Comgnet inFamous chart Week 52

01. [3DS] Youkai Watch 2.5 - 681pt
02. [3DS] Pokemon ORASecond - 207pt
03. [3DS] Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS - 144pt
04. [3DS] Monster Hunter 4G - 124pt
05. [3DS] Final Fantasy Explorer's - 111pt
06. [WiiU] Super Smash Bros. for WiiU - 98pt
07. [3DS] Youkai Dominator 2 - 68pt
08. [Vita] magic School high school dunce Out of Order - 66pt
09. [Vita] Gundam Breaker 2 - 61pt
10. [PS3] Gundam Breaker 2 - 46pt
11. [Vita] Phantasy Star Nova - 41pt
12. [WiiU] promoted Toad captain -! 33pt
13. [3DS] Aikatsu 365 days of idle Days - 33pt
14. [3DS] Sales-Ages beloved Nippon Colombia game - 31pt
15. [3DS] Animal Crossing: New Leaf - 27pt
16. [3DS] Attack on Titans - the human race last Tsubasa ~ CHAIN - 26pt
17. [3DS] of your local railway ~ Gotochi character and Japan journey ~ - 26pt


Would be interesting if Breaker 2 PSV > PS3 confirmed
Guess Smash 3DS > Wii U.

But that was pretty expected.
 

Mory Dunz

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Jun 12, 2012
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Tsutaya and COMG seem to both support that idea. Toad might get another very high week as well... I wonder how much of the legs of either of these titles is from WoM.
Or from Christmas on a Nintendo console. Or both.

Either way, it seems to be saving both titles from being a flop.
 

Vena

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Or from Christmas on a Nintendo console. Or both.

Either way, it seems to be saving both titles from being a flop.
Toad definitely has that "Christmas" effect going on but it feels oddly strong compared to its FW, but who knows. I certainly don't.