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Metroid Other M E3 Gameplay Trailer
- Thread starter Metroid Killer
- Start date
DragonGirl
Banned
After playing Metroid on the show floor I came away feeling a bit disappointed too. This is, bar none, my favorite game series and while I expect Other M to still be a great Metroid game, I'm also anticipating it to be a lesser game in the series, sitting around Fusion rather than Super or the Primes. A couple points:
The story bothers me, not that it exists or how its presented, I liked the cut scenes and thought the voice acting was great (Samus did sound a bit mechanical though). I just don't care for the story being told. Rather, this was my issue in Fusion and while judgment remains to be passed for Other M, I find the themes annoying thus far. You know, all women are not obsessed with motherhood yeah? I'm female and I don't like kids. I liked Samus because she was one of very few female characters who didn't obsess over the handful of stereotypical themes female characters tend to be limited to: babies:boyfriends:hypersexualized bodies. Then along came Zero suit and now a baby theme. Gag me.
Another problem with adding story, specifically character exploration to a game like Other M is; Samus is a character we all know personally. We've explored the universe with her silent presence for a long time. I know I created my own personality for her and I imagine most of you did too. Suddenly having her personality established by the developer and it not meshing with my personal vision feels jarring and I automatically reject what I'm being shown, as with Fusion. That's not MY Samus. I figure a lot of other people share my reaction. It's hard to learn different about a character you thought you already understood.
My other objection is, as with most people, about the controls. If the game had stuck purely with a 2-D play field the digital pad would have been fine. I don't blame the injection of 3-D elements though, I just blame the insistence on sticking with the remote alone when the design expanded. I also really like the first person view, but only outside of combat. It's a cool mechanic to look around, examine the environment more closely, and target distant objects to interact with. I found it frustrating in combat, especially if Samus wasn't facing towards the enemy when I switched to first person view.
My ideal control scheme for this game would be:
Remote + nunchuck. Analog stick giving me the ability to just walk up to objects instead of twitching Samus into place with the D-pad.
Pointer shooting in third person, none of this auto-aim stuff. Multi lock on upgrade would be cool. Missiles available in third person.
First person mode focused on exploration and interacting with distant targets, not necessary for combat. Samus could still be stationary and it wouldn't matter. Tossing in the x-ray visor ala Super Metroid would be excellent.
Those are my Metroid wishes. I still expect Other M to be a fine game, but it leaves me scratching my head.
The story bothers me, not that it exists or how its presented, I liked the cut scenes and thought the voice acting was great (Samus did sound a bit mechanical though). I just don't care for the story being told. Rather, this was my issue in Fusion and while judgment remains to be passed for Other M, I find the themes annoying thus far. You know, all women are not obsessed with motherhood yeah? I'm female and I don't like kids. I liked Samus because she was one of very few female characters who didn't obsess over the handful of stereotypical themes female characters tend to be limited to: babies:boyfriends:hypersexualized bodies. Then along came Zero suit and now a baby theme. Gag me.
Another problem with adding story, specifically character exploration to a game like Other M is; Samus is a character we all know personally. We've explored the universe with her silent presence for a long time. I know I created my own personality for her and I imagine most of you did too. Suddenly having her personality established by the developer and it not meshing with my personal vision feels jarring and I automatically reject what I'm being shown, as with Fusion. That's not MY Samus. I figure a lot of other people share my reaction. It's hard to learn different about a character you thought you already understood.
My other objection is, as with most people, about the controls. If the game had stuck purely with a 2-D play field the digital pad would have been fine. I don't blame the injection of 3-D elements though, I just blame the insistence on sticking with the remote alone when the design expanded. I also really like the first person view, but only outside of combat. It's a cool mechanic to look around, examine the environment more closely, and target distant objects to interact with. I found it frustrating in combat, especially if Samus wasn't facing towards the enemy when I switched to first person view.
My ideal control scheme for this game would be:
Remote + nunchuck. Analog stick giving me the ability to just walk up to objects instead of twitching Samus into place with the D-pad.
Pointer shooting in third person, none of this auto-aim stuff. Multi lock on upgrade would be cool. Missiles available in third person.
First person mode focused on exploration and interacting with distant targets, not necessary for combat. Samus could still be stationary and it wouldn't matter. Tossing in the x-ray visor ala Super Metroid would be excellent.
Those are my Metroid wishes. I still expect Other M to be a fine game, but it leaves me scratching my head.
robor said:
Oh Give me a fucking break, because she's a woman we get to see her go through this? I mean there's nothing else? Are we supposed to believe that the hero of Gears of Wars is only interesting if he's got to see hookers and all?
I mean it's not like there's nothing else they could have done with Samus, I mean I'm pretty sure not all books with women involved women are depicted as walking uterus !
DragonGirl said:
The "baby theme" has been there since Super Metroid, though...
(Edit: Whoops, as Metroid Killer pointed out, it began in Metroid II, though Super Metroid had it as the main story...)
And I think you are thinking this way too 2-dimensionally. You so instantly gravitate to this "Oh god, how sexist" point of view that you completely miss the possibility that Samus' maternal instincts derive from her not having a family of her own. Her parents were killed at an early age, and I hardly suspect as a universe-roaming bounty hunter she has many friends. It's by no means surprising that she would have the desire to be attached to SOMETHING emotionally. This is HUMAN NATURE, be it man or woman...
Metroid Killer
Member
Actually the baby-theme started with Return of Samus, which means it's almost 20 years old. So you can't exactly say it's something new. And that baby has played big roles in Metroid II-IV so don't act like Metroid never has been about Samus and her connection to the baby Metroid.
robor
Member
Mael said:
First of all, I'm not defending the narrative here as much as I'm defending this so called "stereotype" that is motherhood.
Secondly, the progression of the series kinda positions itself in this current scenario. In Fusion she does mentions the baby metroid. So in Other M we're shown a deeper connection - or losing such a connection - with the aftermath that is Super Metroid.
Thirdly, I never EVER stated that motherhood isn't overly abused in other forms of literature, only that, for me I don't find it as abusing as other themes because I see that as part of the nature of women.
*EDIT*
mantidor said:
This is why the d-pad controls make sense to me but SHHHHHH they'll think we're crazy!
robor said:
I just said that since it's bloody lazy to resort to that kind of scenario because she's a women, I mean they could have treated it the same had the character been male (after all it's perfectly acceptable). The way this game expose it however? My god what a trainwreck in the making.
Heck at least in Fusion it wasn't even a big part of the game (that was more about the core X stuffs and how to finally ruin the metroid series so much that they won't even make sequels)
And since they insisted in making the game 3d, might as well go the long way instead of the bastard way they're pulling of fixed perspective from the late 90's
robor said:
Since usually the games are very low on the exposition side I tend to dismiss the longass cutscenes, hence my more favourable view on Fusion.
Heck the fusion suit was kinda cool, what I do remember from Fusion though :
Samus infused with Metroid DNA so now can dismiss the Xcores who've overrun the space station,
Samus X is after Samus,
Cool running sequence with some clever level design + cool bosses,
Horrible handholding
the end.
Unless I fell asleep while playing it sure as hell wasn't about how Samus was mourning the Metroid baby.
TheUnknownForce
Member
DragonGirl said:
Seeing as the guy directing this also directed Fusion, I think you should have walked into this game with these problems already addressed.
The biggest concern with this game is that it will finalize Samus's personality and plot which has been, from the game standpoint, unknown. The remake brought some subtlety to it, but Fusion and this will no doubt explain her current story outright.
If this game's plot sucks hardcore, the plot for the future of the series will either have to live with that forever or retcon it somehow.
riceandbeans
Member
sphinx said:
Fixed.
robor
Member
Mael said:
No, Other M is and that's the entire point. This is the evolution of Samus. Here's a little tree to display what I mean by that:
Super Metroid [narrative is quite sparse and passive, cutscenes from start and end of game]
Metroid Fusion [narrative has more depth, is more active in the gameplay sequences [i.e. elevator scenes etc], more interjecting scenes [not just the start and end of game] Samus displays a deeper personality and reveals other characters she's interacted with]
Metroid: Zero Mission [A little more isolated than Fusion in regards to Samus's personality but with as many interjecting cutscenes as in Fusion]
Metroid: Other M [taking what Fusion has done to the next level with voice acting this time]
It makes sense to me that in Sakimoto's universe of Metroid, he would take it down this route.
TheUnknownForce said:
:lol This is from the guy that retconned the Metroid series so Super Metroid is nothing but a litteral retread of Metroid Zero Mission making the whole 'Super' of super Metroid worthless.
they managed to add worthless plotpoints in something as bare as a NES game!
robor said:
I see that, and that's why I'm saying it sucks
robor said:
yeah fuck misteries, myths, open ended gameplay and difficulty who needs that when we get our hand hold the whole way through.
Seriously a Super Metroid remake would have been better and less insulting.
It's like they removed everything that could have been linked to Alien from the game and put generic syfy in it
I have no problem with the storyline being brought to the table. First time playing, you aren't speed running and they'll be skippable I'm sure.
And it's not as if older Metroid games have pointed us in an opposite direction when it comes to Samus' character. She left alive the last metroid instead of finishing her mission, and couldn't bring her to attack it in Super Metroid.
I agree with Dragon Girl on over sexualizing Samus with the Zero suit being shown at all times get kinda boring, but serves the purpose to remind us that she is a woman. I really think the story is going to be good for videogame standards, but with some cringeworthy moments thanks to voice acting.
But for ffs, she's always being attached to that baby metroid, since Metroid II, so no worries here.
And it's not as if older Metroid games have pointed us in an opposite direction when it comes to Samus' character. She left alive the last metroid instead of finishing her mission, and couldn't bring her to attack it in Super Metroid.
I agree with Dragon Girl on over sexualizing Samus with the Zero suit being shown at all times get kinda boring, but serves the purpose to remind us that she is a woman. I really think the story is going to be good for videogame standards, but with some cringeworthy moments thanks to voice acting.
But for ffs, she's always being attached to that baby metroid, since Metroid II, so no worries here.
Well, with Yoshi, this is fine as his tongue bends. However, with Metroid, you would either need to have Samus rotate in response to the cursor position, or else restrict the cursor to an arc in front of Samus's view (as her shots go in a straight line). Both options seem less than optimal.Boney said:
For it work, the cursor should only affect Samus' movement only when she's firing. If she's facing away from an enemy and shoot it, just turn her body a bit and stretch the arm back.Link Man said:
And if you keep pointing down, she'll turn around and cross her cannon and continue shooting.
DragonGirl
Banned
mantidor said:
No, it's fully 3-D, but the paths vary in the constriction of movement depth.
DragonGirl
Banned
robor said:
Since I was writing about my opinion of Fusion I'm obviously not one of those people.
Not every woman is so hard wired as you say, but that's not really relevant. Let me just ask you if fatherhood is the key defining trait of men or if, as human beings, there's more to them?
evilromero
Member
I remember being very critical of this game from the outset but recently I've warmed up to it considerably. Despite the overindulgent plot, which I'd prefer they skipped, I think the gameplay videos show a lot of promise. Although it'll be a tall order to match the greatness established by Super or Prime. Like I said last year, I don't think Sakamoto can quite remember what made Super Metroid so great and timeless. With Other M I think we're looking at an interesting game in the chronology of the series but something that may not stand the test of time.
EmCeeGramr
Member
Mael said:
Mael said:
Well, Zero Mission is factually the best 2D Metroid, so whatever he's doing I hope he does more of it.
DragonGirl
Banned
Akai said:
The baby theme, as you say, was to me more like finding a duck egg, hatching it, and having the little duck imprinted on me, following me around loyally. That's a bit different in character than Other M is coming off with it's rather anvilicious title, "baby", and bottleships for Pit's sake.
What if Samus were male? Can you think of any human stories that would explore his person and past without having him long for surrogate fatherhood to a space jellyfish?
I know my reaction to this speculation (and it is speculation, when the story is finally told I could come away with a completely different take on it) seems rather strong, but I'm not reacting to Other M so much as I'm reacting to the latest example of a miasma of the same old shit. I'd like Samus treated as a human first with her sex being irrelevant. It was refreshing in the first Metroid and would be just as refreshing now.
EmCeeGramr
Member
DragonGirl said:
That's probably because Samus being a woman was an afterthought in the first game, that they just decided to throw in as a neat surprise near the end.
And they presented that surprise to you in the form of her clothes falling off.
DragonGirl
Banned
Link Man said:
In other words, she'd look the same as if you kept switching directions on the D pad to shoot in all directions thus making Samus look stupid. It's the same thing. The only difference is whether you get to target your enemies or does the game do it for you.
MadOdorMachine
No additional functions
I'm a bit upset about the controls. I wonder why the guy making the game was so hell bent on keeping them especially after Team Ninja tried to get him to use the nun chuck. Wasn't the fact that he needed help creating games in 3D the whole point in hiring Team Ninja?
Edit - Do you guys think it's too late for them to change this? Maybe after some negative impressions from E3 Nintendo will reconsider using the nun chuck.
Edit - Do you guys think it's too late for them to change this? Maybe after some negative impressions from E3 Nintendo will reconsider using the nun chuck.
DragonGirl
Banned
Soneet said:
It's not common, it's constrictive. Female characters in all forms of entertainment have a long history of being highly constricted to very few archetypes that center around them being female to the exclusion of being human. Male characters don't suffer this level of pigeonholing nearly so much. Samus is a game character that has largely escaped this trap (though not completely, what with end game cheesecake shots, Zero suits, and now a mommy theme). It's just very disappointing to me to see my favorite female character starting to sink into the female character theme ghetto.
DragonGirl
Banned
EmCeeGramr said:
On the older systems with very limited graphical options, I can forgive them for the end game skin. As for Samus being female as an after thought, sure, they stumbled into a progressive idea by accident. I wish they'd run with it.
DragonGirl
Banned
MadOdorMachine said:
Considering the rapidly approaching release date, yeah, I think it's too late. Not impossible but unlikely. Though Nintendo has taken some surprising actions due to feedback in the past, I still wouldn't hold my breath.
TheUnknownForce
Member
MadOdorMachine said:
It is too late. The game's two months from release, and since the game's controls were announced, it has been laid out that the game would only use that control scheme, no questions asked.
Using the nunchuk to move and the pointer to aim and shoot outside of the first person might become jarring, as the game is not an overhead shooter of sorts. Enemies are in 3D space. While there could be enemies on the far upper left of the screen, the pointer would not know whether she would be shooting at the enemy closer or further away from the player. Depth is not seen with the pointer. And thus, rather than deal with that problem, they made the game auto-aim.
And to think, this is probably Team Ninja's fault, as Sakamoto originally wanted to do 2.5D.
DragonGirl
Banned
TheUnknownForce said:
I don't think that's really a valid concern. It shouldn't act any different than say, a rail shooter. Also, aren't you running into the this very problem you mention with the auto aim? It probably just targets whatever enemy is closest regardless of what the player wants to shoot.
TheUnknownForce
Member
DragonGirl said:
Well, in a way, yes. Maybe they weren't fond of the dual-stick shooter style of movement (face in the direction of the pointer and move with the stick) and didn't know how to get Samus to shoot behind her while she is running in another direction.
I also think they wanted Samus to have a little more rigidness to where she could shoot. If the pointer was used outside of 1st person, people would not use the 1st person mode or find the game too easy (kind of what happened during sin+punishment 2's development). The chosen control scheme allows Samus to auto-aim, yes, but she has to be generally facing in their direction, so it gives restrictions of where she can shoot. So...it is a sort of auto-aim in the height sense, but she still has to face the enemy, technically.
Considering this is Sakamoto's first 3D title, I think we're going to have to deal with some design choices that would not be expected from an experienced 3D designer.
evilromero
Member
This is my main concern as well. I don't understand why they couldn't include classic controller support as a second option, not even as the default. The game looks beautiful and will no doubt strike a chord with long time fans but it's not doing itself any favors by neutering the controls.Boney said:
Neon_Icarus
Member
I think it's a bit too early to whine about the storyline of the game yet. Yes, we know maternity will be a theme, but it can be explored in a really wide variety of ways. It was a theme in Aliens as well, but I haven't heard anyone saying yet that it in some way demeaned Ripley's character.
Anyway, I find it unlikely that in Other M Samus will go shopping for baby clothes while worrying about menopause...
And about the control scheme...Sure, D-pad controls would be disastrous for most 3D games (like Super Mario Galaxy etc.), but I don't see why they can't work in a 3D game if the whole structure of the game is made with this control scheme in mind. I liked the Prime games myself, but they are no replacement for 2D Metroid. If Sakamoto can deliver something with the same kind of feel I will be very happy, even if it won't be an instant all-time classic. I don't think a few negative impressions negate all the good ones just yet.
Anyway, I find it unlikely that in Other M Samus will go shopping for baby clothes while worrying about menopause...
And about the control scheme...Sure, D-pad controls would be disastrous for most 3D games (like Super Mario Galaxy etc.), but I don't see why they can't work in a 3D game if the whole structure of the game is made with this control scheme in mind. I liked the Prime games myself, but they are no replacement for 2D Metroid. If Sakamoto can deliver something with the same kind of feel I will be very happy, even if it won't be an instant all-time classic. I don't think a few negative impressions negate all the good ones just yet.
I think there are a lot of signs that the creators weren't really sure what they wanted to make here.
I loved metroid in first person, and I'm also on board for a fully 2.5 D metroid, or metroid as a 3rd person adventure game.
It seems that this game is a confused mix of all three, and that could be great, but unfortunately it has resulted in this mixed up control scheme.
I loved metroid in first person, and I'm also on board for a fully 2.5 D metroid, or metroid as a 3rd person adventure game.
It seems that this game is a confused mix of all three, and that could be great, but unfortunately it has resulted in this mixed up control scheme.