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[Y2Kev]

I can't imagined you played Thief 3 to any extent and put a question mark after Water Arrows. I mean like that was a major part of the game. Maybe I'm just not getting your context.

Thief >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Everything

I enjoyed thief, but people are talking about realism. I was just curious how feasible water and noisemaker arrows were in reality.

Am I wrong? Was there context for them in the game? I may have missed it. I didn't love the game (didn't finish it), so I might have missed it.

 

[Kleegamefan]

MGS spanks Splinter Cell about as hard as GT4 spanks Forza*













*There....if that doesnt do it, nothing will

 

[Kabuki Waq]

the mgs 3 ending was pure melodramtic crap the last scene where you shoot

Spoiler

whats her face

is sooooooooo cheesy.

The atmosphere during the fight was ****ing amazing tho.

 

[Red Scarlet]

It'll take awhile to get the hang of it. You could do the stop and pop method that alot of MGS speed runners do, but you've got to be really accurate to pull that off, as you're able to stop and lay a bullet in the gaurds head before they really even notice you're near them (or tranq, whichever method you prefer). You can see some tactics here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RejFFilDvDo

Speed holdups = hotness

Yeah I can't play like them in speedruns (which I've seen some for each game). Tranq all the way.

 

[Y2Kev]

Edited to remove quoted spoilers

YAY

 

[Kabuki Waq]

i edited

 

[Hitler Stole My Potato]

I enjoyed thief, but people are talking about realism. I was just curious how feasible water and noisemaker arrows were in reality.

Am I wrong? Was there context for them in the game? I may have missed it. I didn't love the game (didn't finish it), so I might have missed it.

Wait...you didn't finish? Where did you leave off? If you had a problem with water arrows then I'd love to see how you'd react to the elementals roaming the streets or the dead girl in the orphanage.

The Thief series has always been set in this weird steampunk universe. Not only is there bizarre technology but there's supernatural elements as well. It's not realistic, but it feels like it.

 

[Sysgen]

I enjoyed thief, but people are talking about realism. I was just curious how feasible water and noisemaker arrows were in reality.

Am I wrong? Was there context for them in the game? I may have missed it. I didn't love the game (didn't finish it), so I might have missed it.

Given the era in which the game was set the water and noisemaker arrows were fine. Noisemaker for distractions and water to shoot out torches providing shadows and cover. You can say that the moss arrows were less believeable as shooting them into water grew moss for you to enable you to walk quieter.

^^^ IIRC that orphanage level was f**k awesome.

Also, not for anything or for what its worth but enjoyed Thief 3 much more with the Xbox controller than with the mouse.

 

[Y2Kev]

Wait...you didn't finish? Where did you leave off? If you had a problem with water arrows then I'd love to see how you'd react to the elementals roaming the streets or the dead girl in the orphanage.

The Thief series has always been set in this weird steampunk universe. Not only is there bizarre technology but there's supernatural elements as well. It's not realistic, but it feels like it.

I got past the cradle. And then I stopped because I was so afraid. That's why I wanted to play it on the Xbox 360.

But yeah, I understand it isn't realistic, I was just comparing it to people saying MGS is an unrealistic stealth game. I think they all are (except maybe SC).

 

[Boogie]

I've always found Splinter Cell to be limiting to the point where the gameplay just wasn't fun for me. The super-linear trial-and-error approach, I was never a fan of. Now, games like Thief, MGS, Hitman, Deus Ex, etc. that either offer different paths through a level or the option of gunning your way through or both (Deus Ex!), those I find much more fun. I guess it is just a personal thing for me. I liked how they opened things up a bit in SC3, but I still think they need to take it further as far as expanding freedom goes (which it looks like they are doing in DA).

As for presentation, I love me a good story (Deus Ex!), but building atmosphere and a world to explore is much more important (Deus Ex!).

Spoiler

Deus Ex!

I like you

 

[Kuroyume]

Splinter Cell is actually a stealth game. I used stealth for maybe 10 minutes at most in MGS3, and that was mainly when I was running around with the Raiden mask in that one building towards the end. The only people that defend it compared to other stealth games are stupid fanboys.

Any game that doesn't use the lack of light as an advantage is not really a stealth game.

I've never tried Hitman so I can't say anything about it.

 

[Suburban Cowboy]

wow you mean you can crawl AND hide in a box?! OBVIOUSLY mgs is the best stealth game EVA


Seriously, SC just does it so much better, using shadows , wall jumps, hanging from pipes. Thats not saying SC is a better game (hear that MGS fanboys?) its just saying that SC does stealth better because it is far less limited and more thought out.

 

[koam]

MGS > Hitman >>> SC

Hitman is remarkably good and fun, the only reason i put mgs ahead is because of the storylines.

wow you mean you can crawl AND hide in a box?! OBVIOUSLY mgs is the best stealth game EVA.

Somebody never played MGS3.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Any game that doesn't use the lack of light as an advantage is not really a stealth game.

That's a rather narrow view on what makes the genre. Especially considering the team that made the game you're praising credit MG for the genre.

 

[Skilotonn]

Splinter Cell is actually a stealth game. I used stealth for maybe 10 minutes at most in MGS3, and that was mainly when I was running around with the Raiden mask in that one building towards the end. The only people that defend it compared to other stealth games are stupid fanboys.

Any game that doesn't use the lack of light as an advantage is not really a stealth game.

I've never tried Hitman so I can't say anything about it.

wow you mean you can crawl AND hide in a box?! OBVIOUSLY mgs is the best stealth game EVA


Seriously, SC just does it so much better, using shadows , wall jumps, hanging from pipes. Thats not saying SC is a better game (hear that MGS fanboys?) its just saying that SC does stealth better because it is far less limited and more thought out.

Thumbs up to both of these posts...

Splinter Cell is the true definition of stealth in every sense of the word... whether you like it or not...

 

[BigBoss]

Thumbs up to both of these posts...

Splinter Cell is the true definition of stealth in every sense of the word... whether you like it or not...

Well if you say so who are we to argue.:lol

 

[Kabuki Waq]

Well if you say so who are we to argue.:lol

specially when you know its true.

 

[BigBoss]

specially when you know its true.

Of course it is, I mean everybody in this thread thinks so including you, the same person who called the MGS series an interactive movie...

 

[Kuroyume]

Anyone who knows me knows that I love MGS too. I love Kojima blahbitty blah blah... I respect the MGS series. Ok. My point in all of this is that some people on here can't come to terms with SC being the superior stealth game. I can't see real world spies dropping porno mags all over the place to distract their enemies. That's not stealth. That's fiction.

Why was Dr. Cogent banned? I know he would be here backing the few SC fans on this.

 

[BigBoss]

Anyone who knows me knows that I love MGS too. I love Kojima blahbitty blah blah... I respect the MGS series. Ok. My point in all of this is that some people on here can't come to terms with SC being the superior stealth game. I can't see real world spies dropping porno mags all over the place to distract their enemies. That's not stealth. That's fiction.

Why was Dr. Cogent banned? I know he would be here backing the few SC fans on this.

So your basic argument boils down to Spllinter Cell is better because its more realistic?

 

[Tain]

Hitman (2, Contracts, Blood Money) is perhaps the most pure stealth game. It combines straight-up puzzle solving, tons of exploration and observation, and skillfully staying unseen and unheard. I really wish the default difficulty was one of the harder ones, though; in a game about stealth, it should be impossible to get away with a firefight. Funny thing is, it's logical for a game about a hitman to not be purely about stealth. It's just done so damn well that they might as well have forced it to get the best results. Blood Money did a great job at veering away from the gunfights, though. Combat isn't bad.

Thief (1 and 2, **** Deadly Shadows) easily has the best story, atmosphere (literally perfect audio), control, and level design. Unbelievable presentation all around. Perhaps the best game, at default difficulty, in actually forcing stealth. I'd probably say that Thief 1 is my favorite stealth game. Excellent combat, due in part to the audio and animation. Swordfights with heft.

Splinter Cell is extremely linear, has pretty meh control, and I don't really dig the presentation. Still, it all sort of plays out like a decent puzzle, and the combat seems nice enough.

The Metal Gear Solid games have nice presentation, decent level design, decent control, and with the exception of MGS3, they do a decent job at pushing stealth on the player. The stealth itself isn't bad; I dig the corner-hugging and crouching in the first two games. Yeah, yeah, I actually think the first two games play better. The third one isn't bad, but the only reason I liked it so much was because of the absurd rush of an ending segment.

Splinter Cell might be my least favorite, really. I mean, they seem like good games, but I just haven't gotten into 'em yet. It happens.

Oh, and since I feel like it, I should mention multiplayer. I do like Splinter Cell's multiplayer. Not as much as Thievery (might as well count as Thief's multiplayer), but it's cool.

I enjoyed thief, but people are talking about realism. I was just curious how feasible water and noisemaker arrows were in reality.

Am I wrong? Was there context for them in the game? I may have missed it. I didn't love the game (didn't finish it), so I might have missed it.

Yeah, the game definitely takes place in a magic steampunk setting. It makes perfect sense.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Anyone who knows me knows that I love MGS too. I love Kojima blahbitty blah blah... I respect the MGS series. Ok. My point in all of this is that some people on here can't come to terms with SC being the superior stealth game. I can't see real world spies dropping porno mags all over the place to distract their enemies. That's not stealth. That's fiction.

But what does that have to do with whether or not its a stealth game? Just because it doesn't take itself seriously doesn't mean its not a stealth game. At its core thats what it is, the difference between it and others is that you're able to play it in different ways even though stealth is the main way to do it.

 

[Red Blaster]

Splinter Cell fanboys are whiny bitches.

 

[karasu]

I like how all of a sudden Metal Gear isn't a stealth series.

Why the crap does a wall jump and the ability to turn out lights = more true stealth than anything else?!? You can't see real espionage agents dropping porno mags? I can't see them doing splits between walls.:lol

 

[frAntic_Frog]

MGS2 and MGS3 had some badass enemy AI, especially the team structures and levels of alerts. and who could resist shooting out their radio and then messing with them?

 

[frAntic_Frog]

I like how all of a sudden Metal Gear isn't a stealth series.

Why the crap does a wall jump and the ability to turn out lights = more true stealth than anything else?!? You can't see real espionage agents dropping porno mags? I can't see them doing splits between walls.:lol

stealth is all about hiding in dark like a lil fraidy cat

 

[Yoboman]

No way is MGS more linear than Splinter Cell.

 

[Vagrant]

SC has better control, multiplayer, and graphics (although I like the way MGS looks and animates better). MGS has better level design, AI, and story if you care about that. Although the story in the MGS games is a double edged sword since it can negativly effect the game when used as frequently as MGS2 and Virtous mission in 3. Hopefully Kojima keeps his word that story won't interrupt the missions in 4.

Splinter Cell is actually a stealth game. I used stealth for maybe 10 minutes at most in MGS3 <snip> Any game that doesn't use the lack of light as an advantage is not really a stealth game.

Anyone who knows me knows that I love MGS too. I love Kojima blahbitty blah blah... I respect the MGS series. Ok. My point in all of this is that some people on here can't come to terms with SC being the superior stealth game. I can't see real world spies dropping porno mags all over the place to distract their enemies. That's not stealth. That's fiction.

If you want to be forced to use stealth so badly why not play it on Euro-extreme difficulty? Plus then it's actually more realistic since in that mode if you're seen even once it's a game over. No bullshit fiction featuring one man vs an army like the normal modes of MGS or any Splinter Cell game. Not to mention that you don't even need stealth in SC:CT either, especially once you get the shotgun.

Spoiler

Contrary to you belief SC is fiction, nobody would send out a lone soldier to take on missions that important and expect them to complete it by staying in the shadows, doing splits on walls, and fighting numerous well-trained soldiers after being seen.

BTW since you're so hung up on hiding in the dark you must be dissapointed Double agent might be dropping the light and dark bar and that you don't need to hide in shadows in atleast one of new levels shown so far.

 

[ELS-01X]

I'll just say that I like SC better. I feel like a modern ninja, specially now that they added the knife.

 

[Kangu]

Well MGS has some of the most memorable boss fights in gaming, so that makes me like the games more. All games should be measured by their boss fight, regardless of genre or supposed realism. No boss fights = automatic fail.

 

[Azih]

Eh. MGS series is mediocre action + crap stealth + dumb story + stupid characters

Spoiler

It's raining blood, is he crying? LOL

+ best boss fights around.

SC III did well, but it's still not as good as any of the Thief games.

 

[Tokubetsu]

Hitman (2, Contracts, Blood Money) is perhaps the most pure stealth game. It combines straight-up puzzle solving, tons of exploration and observation, and skillfully staying unseen and unheard. I really wish the default difficulty was one of the harder ones, though; in a game about stealth, it should be impossible to get away with a firefight. Funny thing is, it's logical for a game about a hitman to not be purely about stealth. It's just done so damn well that they might as well have forced it to get the best results. Blood Money did a great job at veering away from the gunfights, though. Combat isn't bad.

Thief (1 and 2, **** Deadly Shadows) easily has the best story, atmosphere (literally perfect audio), control, and level design. Unbelievable presentation all around. Perhaps the best game, at default difficulty, in actually forcing stealth. I'd probably say that Thief 1 is my favorite stealth game. Excellent combat, due in part to the audio and animation. Swordfights with heft.

Splinter Cell is extremely linear, has pretty meh control, and I don't really dig the presentation. Still, it all sort of plays out like a decent puzzle, and the combat seems nice enough.

The Metal Gear Solid games have nice presentation, decent level design, decent control, and with the exception of MGS3, they do a decent job at pushing stealth on the player. The stealth itself isn't bad; I dig the corner-hugging and crouching in the first two games. Yeah, yeah, I actually think the first two games play better. The third one isn't bad, but the only reason I liked it so much was because of the absurd rush of an ending segment.

Splinter Cell might be my least favorite, really. I mean, they seem like good games, but I just haven't gotten into 'em yet. It happens.

Oh, and since I feel like it, I should mention multiplayer. I do like Splinter Cell's multiplayer. Not as much as Thievery (might as well count as Thief's multiplayer), but it's cool.


Yeah, the game definitely takes place in a magic steampunk setting. It makes perfect sense.

I dont agree with what you said about Stealth in Hitman. As someone said earlier in the thread, hitman isnt about hiding and sneaking per say, as it is more about Blending in (atleast in Blood Money it is) but again, it cannot be stressed how good Thief is/was. Best stealth game OVERALL.

 

[Tain]

I dont agree with what you said about Stealth in Hitman. As someone said earlier in the thread, hitman isnt about hiding and sneaking per say, as it is more about Blending in (atleast in Blood Money it is) but again, it cannot be stressed how good Thief is/was. Best stealth game OVERALL.

Playing through Contracts and Blood Money on their normal difficulties, I definitely agree with you, but I'm playing through 2 right now and I'm amazed at how often I need to simply stay out of people's vision. I figure there's more of that in the others on the harder difficulties (these are some of the few games where I'd say the harder difficulties are genuinely not half-assed), but I'm not too positive.

That, and even in the proper clothing people go nuts in Hitman 2.

No way is MGS more linear than Splinter Cell.

Seriously. That's just crazy.

 

[Red Blaster]

Hitman could be something really special but IOI just can't seal the deal.

 

[mikeGFG]

Well MGS has some of the most memorable boss fights in gaming, so that makes me like the games more. All games should be measured by their boss fight, regardless of genre or supposed realism. No boss fights = automatic fail.

:lol you're beinng facetious... right?

 

[Kangu]

:lol you're beinng facetious... right?

Hey, I like my boss fights. Fighting/racing/sports games get a free pass though.

 

[BudokaiMR2]

I will never understand the SC love. I guess it has decent gameplay(although I don't really get all the 'great gameplay!' comments) but I personally feel it is hampered because of the entire presentation. I mean you spend a majority of the games sneaking around goddamn office buildings.

And the people that complain about MGS gameplay are usually just considering the core gameplay, which does have faults. But what is great about the MGS series is the mishmash of stuff that goes into it. What about the shooting/chase scene in MGS3? What about the Zombie killing game in MGS3? What about the boss battles in all games?(I think the original still has the best)

There are so many details that go into making MGS a complete experience that I think it just passes up the other easily...IMO of course ;p

 

[Oldschoolgamer]

What the hell is with the Metal Gear isn't stealth, and neither is Hitman vibe? Hitman is a stealth game, thats more akin to being a ninja than a soldier. Dressing up (which is done in frickin metal Gear) is apart of being stealthy. You use used silenced weapons, pillows, meat hooks, drugs, etc...to kill your target (stealth like). If you all really believe it aint about being stealthy, I encourage you all to put it on its max difficulty and go for the highest ranking. Same applies to Metal Gear. The cone vision dissapears from the games on Euro Extreme, as does the high tolerance against gunfire. I won't comment on who wins, seeing as though I DON'T like SC, and I midly enjoyed thief. I will say, that when it comes to options, Metal Gear and Hitman owns everything else.

 

[Pedigree Chum]

I love Splinter Cell for its gameplay, its just very tight and enjoyable. MGS's gameplay, especially MGS3 was frustrating to me (controls I mean), but the cinematics/story/characters and bos battles are second to none.

 

[Amir0x]

Hey, I like my boss fights. Fighting/racing/sports games get a free pass though.

What about puzzle games

 

[Vagrant]

And the people that complain about MGS gameplay are usually just considering the core gameplay, which does have faults. But what is great about the MGS series is the mishmash of stuff that goes into it. What about the shooting/chase scene in MGS3? What about the Zombie killing game in MGS3? What about the boss battles in all games?(I think the original still has the best)

There are so many details that go into making MGS a complete experience that I think it just passes up the other easily...IMO of course ;p

I'd definitiey agree that MGS is a series that is better then the sum of its parts. Even the graphics in the games are that way. They may not have the most polgons, best textures, animation, or lighting but when you put it all together they're usually still some of the best looking games.

 

[LuCkymoON]

Metal Gear = Stealth-Arcade (if even that)

Splinter Cell = Stealth-Sim

 

[MarkRyan]

Real-life stealth = sit in shadows + whistle + wait a second, then elbow

 

[Ryudo]

In my opinion SC does the everything right except for the story. The art is a non issue because its trying to be realistic so if you hate real life... heh.

That being said MGS is more like an interactive b grade movie. Thats a good thing.

 

[Pedigree Chum]

I personally think that MGS's gameplay works WAY better in indoor environments. I really didn't like MGS's controls in MGS3 and I couldn't understand it cause I thought it was just fine with MGS1/2. SO I went back and revisited those games and found that the controls just fit better indoors. I had more fun with MGS2's tanker mission than most of MGS3 because of that, I didn't feel like I was fighting the controls...everything just worked and worked well. I really hope that Kojima sticks to his promise of revaming the gameplay of MGS4, cause as it stands I don't want to see MGS3's controls make it into MGS4.

In my opinion SC does the everything right except for the story. The art is a non issue because its trying to be realistic so if you hate real life... heh.

That being said MGS is more like an interactive b grade movie. Thats a good thing.

They seem to be rectifying that for SCA thankfully. One thing I never see mentioned is the part in SC:CT where there's a standoff with Shetland, for a series that has dry storylines and characters for the most part, I found that scene to be really great.

 

[X26]

REALISM
Hitman > SC > MGS

A.I
Hitman = MGS > SC

CAMERA
SC > Hitman > MGS

CONTROL
SC > Hitman > MGS

STEALTH
Hitman > SC = MGS

SERIES GROWTH (whether the games keep getting better, add new stuff, etc.)
Hitman > SC > MGS

REPLAY VALUE
Hitman > MGS> SC

FUN
Hitman = MGS > SC

CREATIVITY
Hitman > MGS > SC

STORY
MGS > SC > Hitman

ATTENTION TO DETAIL
MGS > Hitman > SC

all imo of course

 

[McBacon]

Boy, playing the PSP version. While its not entirely stealth, you can snipe and what not. Great game.

 

[artist]

Splinter Cell fanboys are whiny bitches.

Not more than MGS fanboys.

*looks in the mirror*

 

[Speevy]

All the games just make me nervous. I just can't find the fun.

 

[artist]

All the games just make me nervous. I just can't find the fun.

Nervous = Thrill.

You dont love rollercoasters? Shame on you!