Salty Rice
Member
Great thing to do.
But to be honest reading the title i thought he is gonna come out as gay.
But to be honest reading the title i thought he is gonna come out as gay.
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Michael Jordan: I Can No Longer Stay Silent
- Thread starter jbug617
- Start date
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Whom_Gods_Annoy
Banned
Are Jordan's words and actions misleading?
jts
...hate me...
Sure, Im not saying that current authorities are deserving of respect, Im just saying its an issue that also needs to be tackled, to create a respectful force.
Words yes, action no.
Sheriff_Battlesnake
Banned
If what people are saying and that law enforcement donation goes towards improving and refining then this seems like a great thing?
The action it's self is definitely positive.
Frozenprince
Banned
Both sides buy shoes.
hipbabboom
Huh? What did I say? Did I screw up again? :(
I know that it wouldn't make sense to conclude that a lack of funding is what's making entrenched racism and criminal activity within police organizations a reality but my conflict the "both sides" approach makes it seem like we only recognize that good cops need support when it becomes increasingly more obvious that bad cops exist. Why are there even sides here? The police organizations have a serious problem here and this isn't the time to reward bad behavior regardless of how many good cops exist. The organizations are fucked up and that needs to be fixed and spoken out about. Continue doing whatever you feel you can do to support good cops but how counter productive is it when you muck it up with this very important topic of corruption.
The Albatross
Member
Can you explain more about Kareem? Kareem was nearing retirement when I was a little kid, and so my memory of him is in all-time great Laker's videos, but then also on shows like Full House and movies like Airplane. I never got the impression that fans didn't like him, but I also just don't know much of the backstory.
Spring-Loaded
Member
Those two issues are also not intrinsically linked, and they aren't the equivalent of one another. Jordan's grouping them together in the same sentence, and putting respect for law enforcement on the same level as killings of unarmed black people.
That people can and do see his donations and comments then come away with the conclusion of "black lives matter and I don't want cops being killed either — sounds good to me!" is just part of why his stance (and not to mention his history with this issue) is a problem. Bordering on All/Blue Lives Matter sentiment, but noncommittal enough to be taken positively by some.
I'm beginning to put the term "dogwhistle" up there with "clickbait" in terms of misuse. Good God.
Spring-Loaded
Member
How's it used incorrectly here?
Whom_Gods_Annoy
Banned
That's fair. I hope we can agree on which is more important.
Considering his fame and influence his words are almost as important.
Spring-Loaded
Member
"Doing the right thing for the wrong reasons," can be bad too. If he tacitly supports equating hundreds of unarmed civilians getting gunned down by police to police getting killed in the line of duty, then that could be doing as much harm considering his influence.
univariate
Banned
But what does Ja Rule have to say about this?
Doug Heffernan
Member
Wow, 2 million dollars is a huge donation, even for someone as rich as him. That's impressive.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Who???
Whom_Gods_Annoy
Banned
Its not just "in the line of duty" when the primary goal of the killer is to murder as many cops as possible.
Jordan couldn't have been clearer about his respect and support for law enforcement. There's no twisting of words that projects one thing to one audience, and a different thing to another. Not rising to the rooftops and shouting "blue lives matter!!" doesn't constitute a dogwhistle, and that notion reduces the entire concept to something ridiculous and much less useful.
Exactly.
Is "robbing people for their Jordans" still a recurring thing? As someone who was put off on Nike for a really long time because of that and their labor practices I came back because my perception was that the shoes were more available and workers were treated fairly. There was a big Jordan release this past Saturday and the shoes are still available, no shortages. If anything it's Adidas that is playing the artificial shortages game, and even then I don't recall hearing about people being attacked for NMDs or Ultra Boosts. Maybe a couple of reports about Yeezy robberies?
http://espn.go.com/espys/2016/story...ade-lebron-james-call-athletes-promote-change
http://espn.go.com/espys/2016/story...ade-lebron-james-call-athletes-promote-change
PartlyCloudlike
Member
Come on dude, a quick Google search shows its a different Michael Jordan.
PartlyCloudlike
Member
MJ stopped keeping signed basketballs in his Ferrari?
I don't see anything like that. Within the past 2-3 years I've been at major Jordan releases in San Francisco, San Jose, LA, Chicago and Austin and it was all just...normal. Just people lining up for shoes.
That's not to say that no one gets jacked for their shoes these days, I'm sure it happens out there somewhere, but I don't think it's any more of a "thing" than when bad people steal other stuff.
neurosyphilis
Definitely not an STD, as I'm a pure.
I edited the original post and swapped out LBJ for Floyd "Money" Mayweather's lame ass.
-d0hv
tkscz
Member
I keep hearing people make the claim they are going to but they are usually just joking.
What is this about?
Frozenprince
Banned
I mean MJ is an asshole, he's been an asshole his whole life, people just started realizing it after a few years of retirement.
He's just an asshole with a shitload of money. Don't make him not an asshole.
He's just an asshole with a shitload of money. Don't make him not an asshole.
Sàmban;211305612 said:
Especially considering the problem has never been about asshole cops, but the system that supports them. I'm sure a lot of cops feel pretty helpless in the jobs that they have, the difference is it usually doesn't get them killed like minorities and the mentally ill.
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
I like Chamillionaire more after watching this.
A lot of what I know is piecemeal, from docs and interviews, not definitive source for everything.
I have not seen the doc Kareem: Minority of One yet but his interviews about the doc seem to be a good source about what he was like in the past https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lyd-dz-zf6g.
Maybe fans not liking him might be a little off. I imagine hardcore basketball fans like him for his game, but I would not be surprised if the casual fan see him as a guy who is distant to others.
I do remember an interview about Kareem wanting a head coach position and he described how he was not going to get any opportunities specifically because of how the league owners viewed him mostly as a man who is not open personally and opinionated about things outside basketball. He does criticize the NBA for its racism in the past so I imagine a lot of the old guard of owners did not like that.
He was also selective with the media, he would open up to reporters he thought had integrity and be short with a lot of the media he was very suspicious of them. Obviously some media outlets would try to bait him but he generally would just deal with it by avoiding them, creating an image he is mysterious, not humble and ungrateful. So he got an image of a guy who doesn't talk to the media and when you don't work with the media you get ignored or worse.
I cant find the interview(s) but I remember he let everybody know how he really felt when Magic got a statue and he didn't.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
I thought Trevor Noah said it well, to be honest; you can take a stance for something without it automatically making you against something else, and, he said, "you can be pro-black and pro-cop".
(FWIW he's strongly in favour of police training reform and a vocal supporter of BLM.)
Frozenprince
Banned
Seriously.
Sàmban;211305612 said:
The entire history of this country is an us vs them story. Acting like this is some shit black people invented because they just decided one day to not like cops is some bullshit.
This shit has been one-sided since the days of slave patrols and shit, up through Jim Crow, the Civil Rights movement, the War on Drugs, private prisons, etc. But now all of a sudden, when we finally have phones with cameras and people finally see what black people have been saying about police for DECADES, it's an "us vs them mentality" and both sides need to come together.
If I punch you in the face five times a day every day, and you finally snap and get loud and angry about it and punch me back, is it on you to stop perpetuating a "me vs you mentality" so we can finally get past this?
Fuck outta here with that shit.
Spladam
Member
What the hell is this smug shit suppose to mean? Think before you post genius.
Fucking thank you. How are people so inept as to make these views polar from each other, everyone should support both.
Him making $100 million last year is a disaster?
Bounceounce
Member
Do people realize there's more to read/watch about Jordan and race and than a Chamilionare "no niggas" video.
Spring-Loaded
Member
That's a good point — police shouldn't have to expect to be blown away or under particular attack on a day-to-day basis.
Though if the couple of shootings by ex-military dudes are what Jordan's referring to here, then the equivalence he's making is even more suspect than I thought — I figured he was talking about police being disrespected/targeted overall.
I can't look past that he's been notably silent on this matter for his whole career up until police started being shot in more-or-less direct response to killings of unarmed people by police. Didn't donate or break silence when Sandra Bland, Tamir Rice, Sean Bell, Rekia Boyd or Oscar Grant were killed. Not that he has to, of course.
But it was now, of all times, that he decides to speak up, and, if the above reading of his comment is accurate (that it was in response to the shootings targeting police over the last few weeks, which makes sense considering the timing), he spoke up to admonish the killings of unarmed, innocent black people by police AND the targeting of and disrespect toward police:
Michael Jordan said:
He's equating the two. Intentional or otherwise, saying both in the same breath and putting emphasis on how "whatever solutions we take need to address the wrongful killings AND respecting police" says they are equally pertinent. Citizens aren't killing police and getting away with it every other week — the "respect for police" bit should always be framed as secondary to widespread police reform, because it is absolutely justified and understandable to be afraid and distrusting of police.
Caring about everyone isn't a problem. The problem is arguing from the stance that solutions need to cater equally to both the issue of U.S. police killing unarmed people AND to the issue of police being disrespected and, earlier this month, getting targeted. Suggesting that the impetus and responsibility for solving this problem isn't on the ones responsible for those wrongful killings is the problem — putting those side by side as if the former isn't obviously begetting the latter, and only speaking up when police are being killed for no good reason is an All/BlueLivesMatter practice. Placing any blame on the victims, or asserting that police institutions in America inherently deserve respect while outwardly disrespecting citizens and proving that the institution does not consider people in general deserving of respect, fair treatment or justice, particularly black people.
Noah goes on to acknowledge that there are people who don't believe the problem exists, the asinine excuses made by police, how justified people's distrust of police are, that you can't deny the racism, and so forth. He goes in on law enforcement right after that.
There are people like Spladam above who don't see what's wrong with platitudes like "if we all work together, we can foster greater understanding, positive change, etc." in the wake of people being shot while sitting in a car while following orders, shot while being held down on the ground, and shot while lying on the ground with their hands in the air and then handcuffed while bleeding from their gunshot wound. You've got people like him who see nothing amiss about suggesting American police institutions AND people who don't want police to kill unarmed people then get off scot-free for it are both responsible fixing the problem. People who think cookouts with police are "the proper way" to protest. It's those people who get the wrong message from comments like Jordan's, regardless of what he truly believes. Comments that seek to pacify and appease as many parties as possible, rather point out the true sources of the problems.
Darklor01
Might need to stop sniffing glue
Since I'm not a police person or a Black person, I cannot personally truly know either experience. I think leadership for all sides is important. I applaud Jordan for supporting leaders in areas of these issues. Well done there.
I think that in order to work towards a resolution it is important to actually understand the viewpoints of those groups. Police do need to respect the lives and experiences of those they police, and the other groups need to respect the lives of those who are on the front lines of danger and also what they do with those on a daily basis in general.
The first move in my opinion alone might be better coming from the police since they are supposed to be the authoritarian force over the public, though this is likely so much harder than it sounds. It would also be helpful if the lives of those other groups respected each other's lives. I am only really speaking about those who seek to shoot first before any other solution to any issue. That alone would solve a lot of things.
I think that in order to work towards a resolution it is important to actually understand the viewpoints of those groups. Police do need to respect the lives and experiences of those they police, and the other groups need to respect the lives of those who are on the front lines of danger and also what they do with those on a daily basis in general.
The first move in my opinion alone might be better coming from the police since they are supposed to be the authoritarian force over the public, though this is likely so much harder than it sounds. It would also be helpful if the lives of those other groups respected each other's lives. I am only really speaking about those who seek to shoot first before any other solution to any issue. That alone would solve a lot of things.
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