Yeah but most students can't afford over priced laptops either.
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Microsoft believes Apple is playing catch up with iPad/iWork
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Yeah but most students can't afford over priced laptops either.
Seems like MBP are all over the place when I'm on campus.
I've got a Wii, a Macbook and a flip phone.
Microsoft has already announced that they are working on touch first version of the Office Suite that they are bringing to Windows and other devices. They already have office on windows phone, iphone and andriod phones. As well as Lync, Skype, Onenote, Xbox Music/Video etc.. just about everywhere.
So yeah, I think Microsoft is well aware of where the market is heading. Their plan seems to be to put their services everywhere (with subscriptions most likely) and build devices that run windows as well as continue to sell windows to anyone that wants it. Aka, devices and services company. And i think it is pretty clear they know windows isn't the market leader going forward, or at least 90% market. That is why you see them expanding to other platforms with their services, which is where most of their money will be made in the future.
http://winsupersite.com/office/microsoft-strategy-update-office-ipad-and-android-tablets
So yeah, I think Microsoft is well aware of where the market is heading. Their plan seems to be to put their services everywhere (with subscriptions most likely) and build devices that run windows as well as continue to sell windows to anyone that wants it. Aka, devices and services company. And i think it is pretty clear they know windows isn't the market leader going forward, or at least 90% market. That is why you see them expanding to other platforms with their services, which is where most of their money will be made in the future.
Yeah it always feels that way but its all the rich kids. Anecdotal but in my university barely anyone had a Mac. I see a lot around campus but it just seems like more people have them because you tend to notice them more since its different than the norm and I think TV always plays a big part in the perception.
Mac sales are in decline much worse than the PC industry:
http://money.cnn.com/2013/10/10/technology/mac-pc-sales/
Physics. A 7-8" Tablet is the best, most comfortable form factor, whereas on a productivity device you need at least 11 inches, and preferably 12-13.
Until they invent mass-market foldable screens, it's not happening.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
Yes, but if that's all you needed, you could do that with free productivity apps already available on the store.
I'm sorry, but it's not hard to figure out and they're not the first to do it. Again, if they can't figure out how to return to the metro then they don't have the mental cycles to use any other tablet. They all work in the same way with that function.
Mercury Land-Snake
Member
They were in the phone and tablet space far longer than Apple and Google. They just never executed properly and just slapped regular windows on phones and tablets. Now they're executing well enough but they're way too late to gain traction.
basically. to the modern touch first, not stylus first approach at least.
Foghorn Leghorn
Unconfirmed Member
Could be about Xbox also.
Mercury Land-Snake
Member
Seriously, I consider iWork a nice to have more than anything. I wouldn't seriously create any documents on the iPad but it's good to have to make quick edits. Office might be more robust, but MS messed up by not making a tablet optimized version for Windows RT. It'd be like Apple including iWork for OSX on the iPad. Makes no sense to me.
With the iPad you get iWork and iLife standard and I think that's going to be big for a lot of people that want to do basic productivity, photo enhancements, movie making and music making. It makes the iPad a more complete product out of the box.
We all grew up using Office and as much as I dislike it, I know the ins and outs of it after 20+ years so I still use it. The new generation growing up on iPad don't give a shit about Office, they will grow up on iWork. That's going to be a problem for MS as time goes on. They need to make Surface a success or release Office for iPad/Android yesterday.
Mercury Land-Snake
Member
As long as they're pushing subs I will continue to use Apple and Google productivity software or use their old Office suites sans sub. Sorry but I'm not paying a monthly sub to use fucking Office.
dream
Member
I don't think people are saying that tablets shouldn't be used for productivity (except for maybe Tobor, but his point is more that Office, with its menus, UI, and concessions to its desktop heritage, isn't a good fit for the tablet form factor). People are saying that tablets generally aren't used for such tasks. But those who do invariably and necessarily use non-Microsoft solutions, which is troubling if Microsoft wants to maintain this idea of Office being a killer app.
I really don't see why we can't want our tablets to do more, that makes no sense. Why would more restrictions and less functionality be a bad thing? I don't think windows 8 is perfect but its a good step. When it was impossible for an x86 architecture to compete on a power/efficiency level I understood - but that is no longer than case.
Yes they are. And yes the current office isn't optimized for touch, but they're working on it. OneNote is a good start. If the problem is that Office isn't so good for touch interfaces then people should say that rather than "no one would want to be productive on their tablets, MS doesn't get it".
dream
Member
That's not the biggest problem though. The real problem is that Office isn't on the tablets that people actually buy and use.
Chicken and egg eh? They chose a strategy and there's not much point agonizing over why they didn't choose otherwise.
dream
Member
Isn't that the point everyone is making though? Microsoft's strategy to keep Office exclusive to Windows is driving tablet owners to iWork and Google Docs. Which is dangerous for Microsoft because it creates the opportunity for a market where Office isn't necessary.
Everyone? Come on now.
Again that's their strategy and you can have equal amount of arguments why Microsoft isn't pushing their own OS and devices over others. Not interested in arguing over such choices.
Purple Cheeto
Member
Not my employer. They don't trust our rather boring company secrets to the Google Cloud.
Nah. The thing is these people 100% cannot abandon traditional form factors. Mobile is a non-risk, it's a nice-to-have but nobody is basing their software purchases on the ability to edit spreadsheets on a tablet. I doubt people would even pay very much for it as a stand-alone because it's just not a good fit. They want it because they have iPads from home and it's good for viewing things at meetings and such but once they're done they go back to their office and plug something into a docking station or have a full computer rig going.
Even then the two things that could increase usability are things Apple won't touch, keyboards and styluses because they bloat and complicate their own vision and what people love about tablets.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
It has to make advancements in handling more advanced things that Office can handle that it can't and without that I can't see it penetrating the corporate side of sales and you can't kill off office unless you do that.
They really can't depending on what you're talking about. You're usually doing more than writing essays for your class at a normal job so iWork can't cut it for many things still. This also all hinges on apple keeping majority marketshare and tablets completely outstripping pcs for corporate work. Also, see below.
It really isn't though... iWorks is incredibly barebones and there's no way I could do my finance work with iWork, I need macros and other things for them to work. It's going to take a lot more work on apple's part for it to ever get into corporations and unless it does, it can never truly kill Office since it would have to be an evolution to kill both to dethrone it.
Sapiens
Member
Sir Abacus
Member
They're shitting their bricks because Apple just not only released a free "good enough" Office suite for most of the world but made it collaborate online without even having to have the shit installed.
Both MS and Google have had that for years.
For not trying to do what apple and android tablets are doing? If that's how you want to look at it, it's blatantly ignorant of what the Surface was designed for but hey more power to you.
I still prefer Word over Google Docs only because Google Docs doesn't fucking put page numbers in their table of contents for some absurd fucking reason. Printing documents out is far from dead in the office environment, and a proper table of contents is necessary when docs are any longer than 10 pages, which design docs routinely are.
However, I have no experience with iWork. I guess I should start giving it a try on iOS as I got it for free, but I hardly ever want to poke at a word doc while on my phone or tablet.
However, I have no experience with iWork. I guess I should start giving it a try on iOS as I got it for free, but I hardly ever want to poke at a word doc while on my phone or tablet.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
it's funny, because he's not wrong, but at the same time.... he's really wrong. Office is the only thing 'leading' about microsoft and tablets.
I like the surface and it has a really good shot at catching the corporate market. But apple is killing it because people don't really give as much of a shit about a productive tablet as MS thinks.
I like the surface and it has a really good shot at catching the corporate market. But apple is killing it because people don't really give as much of a shit about a productive tablet as MS thinks.
Do people here realize that Microsoft has free Office Web Apps that anyone can use? I'm not sure why price always comes up when talking about Office, especially when pointing out that "most people don't need everything Word does".
The thing about Office is that no one needs everything it does. But every feature is used by a huge number of people. The entire purpose of the Ribbon was to show people that their top-10 feature requests were already in the product, just difficult to find.
Why does almost every single iPad I see have some hoakey 3rd-party keyboard attached to it? And why is Apple making such a big deal about iWork for iPad if no one gives a shit?
The thing about Office is that no one needs everything it does. But every feature is used by a huge number of people. The entire purpose of the Ribbon was to show people that their top-10 feature requests were already in the product, just difficult to find.
Why does almost every single iPad I see have some hoakey 3rd-party keyboard attached to it? And why is Apple making such a big deal about iWork for iPad if no one gives a shit?
BertramCooper
Banned
Well whatever their genius plan is, it's obviously working.
Said the company who released Surface a few years too late to catch up with Apple, Google, and other companies. Stay flopping, MS!
I'm still trying to figure out why you posted this gif.
I mean... not that I'm complaining...
Sir Abacus
Member
Google doesn't have a native client and MS's online web tools don't live collaborate. Office Web Apps it's not updated until it's "saved" on the other person's client.
On iWork for iCloud it's fucking eerie how quick it updates between people.
The Office Web App added real-time collaboration a few months ago. Google docs can be used offline as a Chrome app, you can even create shortcuts directly to it.
http://www.zdnet.com/microsofts-office-web-apps-moving-ahead-with-gemini-wave-7000015084/
Office Web Apps will have real-time collaboration very soon.
I know you've clarified your point, but I feel the need to interject on one point here.
You are right, the number of available devices is growing, and the amount people own may be growing as well. This is primarily because, despite convergence of features, it's more to add a feature to the box and advertising than approached from an actual use case scenario.
I mean, "smart TV" seems to be the big talking point right now in that sector, but people aren't actually using them, because they already have a cable box off to the side that is their primary interaction with the device itself. So all of that converging technology just simply goes unused except to illicit a "wow" factor when you take it out of the box.
The features are all there, but there's a certain... discomfort having to rely on 2 different devices and interfaces. For smart TVs to be truly convergent, TV makers should have been dropping cable box functions into the TVs themselves and allowing cable companies to drop some firmware in to get them running, or a hardware module you can plug into the back, as they already do for certain models as I had seen on TV. THAT is true convergence, because it doesn't just merge features, it merges use cases into a cohesive whole.
This is why there is still fragmentation: tech companies simply don't understand that features without a use case are useless.
And this includes Apple products, as well. I have long held the belief that the Apple TV should become a full-on set-top box with all the Apple TV's features overlaid onto the standard set-top PVR experience. THAT would drive adoption, much like integrating the iPod/iTunes ecosystem into phones with the iPhone was a primary driving motivation for early adoption. People never left home without both their phones and their iPods, so the use case was there, and Apple was able to capitalize. That is an example of convergence done right.
And this is where Microsoft is struggling.
The use case for the iPad was very simple: people wanted something in between the powerful PC and the handy but limited iPhone. PCs and Macs both are complex by layers of abstraction, and that is entirely by design and their nature. You can do ANYTHING with them, and that's part of the boundary to adoption and part of the consumer stigma applied to them.
Before the iPad, people who wanted a Mac or PC would say "it's just too much computer for me, when all I mostly do is check my email and browse the internet."
Netbooks were a step in the right direction but didn't gain traction for this reason: despite being "less computer", it still had all the layers of abstraction that made it appear to be the same as any other computer.
However, the very user-friendly iPhone/iPod touch/etc. are clearly designed as on-the-go devices, not something to enjoy in one place.
There was a use case that had been waiting to be filled since the PC first became a big must-have thing back in the 90s and became more apparent when there was another marker denoting where the middle ground that needed to be achieved was.
Meanwhile, for the sake of convergence and so as not to give up on the "power user" stereotype of Windows product users, we have Surface, which suffers from the same problem that netbooks did: despite a lot of ease-of-use interface wrapping, any time you use it as advertised, the wrapping comes off and the layers of abstraction show through again and make it seem like something more than what people are looking for, or conversely, not enough.
It's not enough computer for people who need that and it's not enough tablet for people who need that.
They made a convergence device without a use case. Currently there simply is not enough of a use case for a quarter-measure intermediary between a tablet and a PC (or not enough to build a market around it, anyways). Most people are quite fine to go to either extreme, which is hardly the same extreme as it used to be when it was just full-on computer to a smartphone.
And make no mistake, consumers have set smartphones and computers as the borderlands for their multipurpose work/entertainment devices, and anything too far in either direction outside of it is simply not of enough interest to the modern consumer to build a market around it. Apple TV as a $99 TV relay for all your other devices is a great thing... but the use case for another box attached to the TV with ANOTHER user interface you access separately is never going to be mass market. It needs to cannibalize another use case or find a new one that's in need of exploiting.
Microsoft tried to find a new use case, and in turn made the Surface the answer to a question no one asked.
Windows is what, 25% of MS revenue? That is their most threatened business unit I think.
About the office discussion, most people can deal with basic productivity functions. For the non twitter/facebook use, for those who need to type long texts on their tablet, the BT keyboard exists. I brought my tiny mac keyboard on vacation last summer and it did the job perfectly, it's not as if iPad users were left out of options.
I'm interested to see if this Office key competitive advantage will still work in this day and age.
StrangeADT
Banned
Yes but Microsoft is shit at marketing. See, Microsoft throws out 8.1 and the common perception is just that it's an update that fixes some bugs or something.
Apple makes up a fancy code-name and shows it their "new" OS at widely watched conferences. The perception that 8 -> 8.1 is equivalent to Mountain Lion -> Mavericks isn't created because they used the old software version notation rather than being smart about it like Apple has been.
Also, I'm not convinced that the jump is the same either. I haven't even upgraded to Windows 8 because 7->8 was a downgrade IMHO. At least Apple doesn't seem to downgrade their OS with every other release.
apple is playing catch up to microsoft dismantling its own business model, yeah. imagine if you told the microsoft of 5 years ago that come 2013 it'd be bundling office with its own hardware and waiving software license fees just to protect its own platform.
microsoft knows now that the days of selling software are coming to an end. software once promised unprecedented profits due to its lack of variable costs, but that didn't anticipate the drive to "less than free" products as an inducement for profit-generating device or advertising businesses. microsoft isn't under imminent threat due to the slow-moving business world, but long-term its current model is done for. the problem is, there's no reason to expect microsoft's devices play to ever be successful.
you can't compete with free, and only microsoft is in the position of having nothing else to sell.
edit: one of the best analyses of recent times http://abovethecrowd.com/2011/03/24/freight-train-that-is-android/
microsoft knows now that the days of selling software are coming to an end. software once promised unprecedented profits due to its lack of variable costs, but that didn't anticipate the drive to "less than free" products as an inducement for profit-generating device or advertising businesses. microsoft isn't under imminent threat due to the slow-moving business world, but long-term its current model is done for. the problem is, there's no reason to expect microsoft's devices play to ever be successful.
you can't compete with free, and only microsoft is in the position of having nothing else to sell.
edit: one of the best analyses of recent times http://abovethecrowd.com/2011/03/24/freight-train-that-is-android/
Yes that is corrected.
Fjolle
Member
Only if they own OSX.
as opposed to all those mac users who don't. it's pointless arguing about the semantics of "free," the point is the business of selling software is done and its future is as a value-add for hardware or ads.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
I've seen one person ever with a 3rd party keyboard attached to an ipad.
best I can figure is surface can replace laptops. They won't replace ipads though. Ipads are simple. there's a market for that.
I own both and I prefer the surface, but there is some things, like sitting in front of tv and browsing the web during ads, that an ipad suits way more.
wat
what suite of products is better at what it does than office? Nothing. Nothing is better.
Just to make sure, you know that all you need is to have bought a Mac or MacBook any time in the last five years to get the free OS upgrade right?
Even Anti-Apple guys should rejoice that Apple is doing this, it will force Microsoft's hands when providing future OS upgrades. The discounted pricing they had for much of the early months that Windows 8 was out is probably a direct result of the low pricing Apple had for their Mac OS X upgrades. The days of offering a 300 dollar upgrade to a new OS are over and that should be a good thing for all consumers.
20cent
Banned
It is the must have application just like photoshop... everyone "has" it but 98% have no concept of rudimentary knowledge (masks, levels, layers)... If someone wants to auto-enhance photo, I'll suggest something like iPhoto. Same thing applies to MS office.
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