Doc Holliday
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Microsoft Courier: dual-screen touch tablet
- Thread starter D4Danger
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blame space
Banned
rhfb said:
I can type faster than I can write, too, but not on a 7'' touch screen.
Neodiablo22
Member
I hate to be the thread troll (I'm actually a Microsoft fan most of the time) but this is clearly a gimmick being used to draw interest in the technology. Microsoft has not been able to get people to buy convertible tablet laptops and are trying anything to get developers interested in the technology (Developer support is a big reason why it is still a niche product). The only reason Microsoft continue down this path when tablet computers are just not selling well (Other than tablets/touch are good tech and Microsoft is the only one with a operating system businesses would want with the technology) is because Bill Gates is fully behind it and the growing popularity of products like the Amazon Kindle.
A few things stick out in my mind:
1) I can not imagine the battery life being decent for this computer to be primarily used without a power cord attached, multi-touch tablet technology and dual LCDs screen (I would love to be proved wrong here). Extremely light batteries with a long lifespan when power is sucked out from them still do not exist.
2)LCD screens are hard on the eyes over an extended period of time for reading due to the brightness and lack of significant contrast. This is why Electronic Ink technology is used in the Sony EReader and Amazon Kindle.
3)The only way I see this as being affordable to consumers ($1000 price point maybe) to popularize the technology is with a low powered processor like the Intel Adam. I do not see a processor like the Adam performing well under a normal operating system (Please do not give my the windows 7 performance argument on Netbook. I writing this one right now and functionality when considering modern uses and standards is limited). I highly doubt that the OS/Software will be up to the point where the system is up to the functionality MS would like us to dream of based on the concept art.
I would love to be proved wrong about all of this but things just do not add up for me. I would also love for someone to argue with about this
A few things stick out in my mind:
1) I can not imagine the battery life being decent for this computer to be primarily used without a power cord attached, multi-touch tablet technology and dual LCDs screen (I would love to be proved wrong here). Extremely light batteries with a long lifespan when power is sucked out from them still do not exist.
2)LCD screens are hard on the eyes over an extended period of time for reading due to the brightness and lack of significant contrast. This is why Electronic Ink technology is used in the Sony EReader and Amazon Kindle.
3)The only way I see this as being affordable to consumers ($1000 price point maybe) to popularize the technology is with a low powered processor like the Intel Adam. I do not see a processor like the Adam performing well under a normal operating system (Please do not give my the windows 7 performance argument on Netbook. I writing this one right now and functionality when considering modern uses and standards is limited). I highly doubt that the OS/Software will be up to the point where the system is up to the functionality MS would like us to dream of based on the concept art.
I would love to be proved wrong about all of this but things just do not add up for me. I would also love for someone to argue with about this
Neodiablo22
Member
On a slightly different note (that will probably kill all of my credibility), this picture is awesome and should become an internet meme.
SuperPac
Member
Gotta say this looks pretty darn good. If it was going to sync/work-at-all with the Mac I'd be tempted. But it won't, so I'm not even in the market for this. 
However there are a couple things that I find...odd about it. It's a concept video so I'm sure it doesn't reflect the real deal but still...
They show that handwriting stays handwriting and doesn't turn into type. A journal page acts like a piece of paper. Underlining text as is done here doesn't seem to have bolded it or styled it in any way. Nor in a numbered list does it seem like the journal has formatted it for the person. So I don't see many ways this is superior to paper.
And do people like to write out pages and pages of notes like that instead of put it together on a desktop PC first? She wrote out every bit of that to-do list. Including drawing checklist boxes (which, btw, how would it distinguish that box from the box she drew around it that turned the list into a post-it?). If you're doing a long stretch of "work," would you really sit there and write it all out or would you prepare it on a desktop PC and then add/edit/make small notes using the tablet? Since I'd imagine this person doesn't do all her work on the tablet how would she get the list she just wrote out and email it to co-workers or collaborators in a usable fashion? Would it show up as a PDF in her handwriting? Does that co-worker also have to have a Courier in order to use it? If she'd made a mistake or wants to re-order her to-do list, how would that be done?
Seems semi-ridiculous that you have to "flick" a name over to the map to see where they are located (this user was already in the map application it seemed so just clicking on a name doesn't do the same thing? Gesture for gesture's sake?). Also, if she was on the road a much more helpful function would be either asking if she wanted to or automatically producing a map from the user's current location to the address.
What's with pinching to close an app (as she seems to do here). Again, this seems like gesture for gesture's sake, and IMO...not terribly intuitive. Would any app that runs on the left screen be deprived of using the pinch for anything but closing the app? She has a home button but its function is vague except for setting a home page.
Starting a new page, she flicks the right edge of the paper and it reveals a new sheet. Now what if she wanted to go back a page? Does she flick the left edge of the right-hand screen or the left edge of the left page? (Personally I think an upward/downward flick on the righthand screen would've made more sense here, acting like a legal pad instead of a page in a right/leftnotebook.)
Dragging photos into the journal...really? Photos you drag onto a blank page land askew? Then she labels the photo "poplar veneer" on the back. But it looks like the words "poplar veneer" were probably on the front of the picture anyway. She can't just circle that text on the photo, have the system recognize it's text, copy it, and label it with that? She actually has to write "Poplar Veneer" on the back of the virtual photo.
It reminds me of the Microsoft Origami concept video which showed off some cool ideas too but in the end seemed like more work than just doing it on a laptop/desktop in a bulky device. Really curious to see what Apple has up their sleeve after this vid.
However there are a couple things that I find...odd about it. It's a concept video so I'm sure it doesn't reflect the real deal but still...
They show that handwriting stays handwriting and doesn't turn into type. A journal page acts like a piece of paper. Underlining text as is done here doesn't seem to have bolded it or styled it in any way. Nor in a numbered list does it seem like the journal has formatted it for the person. So I don't see many ways this is superior to paper.
And do people like to write out pages and pages of notes like that instead of put it together on a desktop PC first? She wrote out every bit of that to-do list. Including drawing checklist boxes (which, btw, how would it distinguish that box from the box she drew around it that turned the list into a post-it?). If you're doing a long stretch of "work," would you really sit there and write it all out or would you prepare it on a desktop PC and then add/edit/make small notes using the tablet? Since I'd imagine this person doesn't do all her work on the tablet how would she get the list she just wrote out and email it to co-workers or collaborators in a usable fashion? Would it show up as a PDF in her handwriting? Does that co-worker also have to have a Courier in order to use it? If she'd made a mistake or wants to re-order her to-do list, how would that be done?
Seems semi-ridiculous that you have to "flick" a name over to the map to see where they are located (this user was already in the map application it seemed so just clicking on a name doesn't do the same thing? Gesture for gesture's sake?). Also, if she was on the road a much more helpful function would be either asking if she wanted to or automatically producing a map from the user's current location to the address.
What's with pinching to close an app (as she seems to do here). Again, this seems like gesture for gesture's sake, and IMO...not terribly intuitive. Would any app that runs on the left screen be deprived of using the pinch for anything but closing the app? She has a home button but its function is vague except for setting a home page.
Starting a new page, she flicks the right edge of the paper and it reveals a new sheet. Now what if she wanted to go back a page? Does she flick the left edge of the right-hand screen or the left edge of the left page? (Personally I think an upward/downward flick on the righthand screen would've made more sense here, acting like a legal pad instead of a page in a right/leftnotebook.)
Dragging photos into the journal...really? Photos you drag onto a blank page land askew? Then she labels the photo "poplar veneer" on the back. But it looks like the words "poplar veneer" were probably on the front of the picture anyway. She can't just circle that text on the photo, have the system recognize it's text, copy it, and label it with that? She actually has to write "Poplar Veneer" on the back of the virtual photo.
It reminds me of the Microsoft Origami concept video which showed off some cool ideas too but in the end seemed like more work than just doing it on a laptop/desktop in a bulky device. Really curious to see what Apple has up their sleeve after this vid.
Jet Grind Radio!
Banned
Something something DS wannabe. Something something rip off.
Looks damn sexy though. I'd love one, if reasonably priced.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Neodiablo22 said:On a slightly different note (that will probably kill all of my credibility), this picture is awesome and should become an internet meme.
You don't know who Mars Blackmon is?
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Except not in any single way at all.civilstrife said:
thirty said:
I'm not sure you'd want to use this for serious reading. An e-ink version would be epic. I've been asking for one since e-ink was first prototyped :\
blame space said:
If you're using it while traveling as an all-purpose device, being able to type would be nice. Could always just get a small folding USB/bluetooth KB for it.
wayward archer
Member
That video was awesome. The two screens working together like that is excellent. Folds together like a book. Amazing concept. Please deliver...
wayward archer
Member
SnakeXs said:
The biggest problem with e-ink is that the refresh time is a bit slow.
Two OLED screens would be a nice substitute though.
One thing I do have to mention ... being a lefty, if this doesn't allow you to swap screens ... FAIL ... EPIC FAIL :lol
While it would be a great idea in terms of weight, thickness, and especially power consumption versus LCD ... how is it a substitute for e-ink? It offers none of the benefits e-ink does over LCD for viewing.
wayward archer said:
While it would be a great idea in terms of weight, thickness, and especially power consumption versus LCD ... how is it a substitute for e-ink? It offers none of the benefits e-ink does over LCD for viewing.
themustardman
Member
I'm not one to go GaGa over hardware, but dayum dat technology. You look at it and it just makes sense. It's one of those " Ohh why didn't i think of that!" moments. So awesome.
Looks handy as fuck for university note taking.
Looks handy as fuck for university note taking.
Burger
Member
It doesn't take much to win you lot over does it ? A few quick renders, and a dodgy concept video and everyone is reaching into their pockets already.
If this is already in the 'late prototype' stage, then you have to assume:
2 LCD screens, SSD drive, Ultra low power CPU.
Also, like I mentioned above, what operating system does Microsoft have that looks anything remotely like the concept video ? It might be Surface, but that's hardly even viable from an OEM standpoint, let alone a consumer one.
I remain ULTRA skeptical.
If this is already in the 'late prototype' stage, then you have to assume:
2 LCD screens, SSD drive, Ultra low power CPU.
Also, like I mentioned above, what operating system does Microsoft have that looks anything remotely like the concept video ? It might be Surface, but that's hardly even viable from an OEM standpoint, let alone a consumer one.
I remain ULTRA skeptical.
themustardman said:
People have actually been talking about dual touches since forever, haven't they? Crap, I've been talking about it on gaf for years
Burger said:
While your points about the HW are likely correct ... you're really just guessing about the OS. We have no idea how long they've been working on hits. The article states this has been going on for a long time, as one of MS's biggest secret projects.
Random aside, I'd pay for OLED
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
What do you mean? On computers, yes, many millions of us do... People with any kind of office jobs pretty much all do, even working from home. Something like this looks more like a casual computing, leisure device than something you'd get a lot of work done, though.subrock said:
Ketchup Boy
Junior Member
Awwee man they stole my idea!!! FUUU****KKK!!!!
wayward archer
Member
Onix said:
Well by substitute I didn't mean it would completely fill e-ink's strengths, just that it would offer substantial advantages over LCD.
OLED has much faster refresh than LCD (like 0.1ms compared to 2ms), and doesn't have the angle viewing problems LCDs have either. And of course the power consumption and weight are huge advantages. E-ink is completely unusable for a device like this (something that you could draw on). E-ink is pretty much only suitable for displaying text that doesn't need to be updated rapidly (it barely can do 2-3 frames per second without either using that super annoying flashing or having really bad ghosting). Plus the whole no-color thing.
yes I know people use computers for actual work, but I would say the more typical user experience would be, checking email and web surfing in an inappropriate social situation, lurking on facebook for hours on end. I think computing is very very basic for %75 of consumers.Lord Error said:
my opinion on using computers in a workplace environment is that its a task that is very much behind the times. given I worked in TV and not graphic design like they are portraying but I dont think a lot of people are doing cutting edge stuff day to day unless they are the ones cutting the edge.
Burger
Member
Onix said:Random aside, I'd pay for OLED
wayward archer said:
What is with all this OLED love ? It's just impractical.
The added cost of 2 7" OLED screens would be huge. While some may be prepared to pay, most wouldn't.
Also, just because it's OLED doesn't mean it saves power. While it's true that an idle, black OLED screen uses almost no power, it's not the same for when it's displaying white, in which case it uses MORE power than an LCD.
What do most of the screens of this device show ? White or Black ? What would you see more of when emailing or web browsing ? Why are the user interfaces for the ZuneHD and the Sony OLED walkman mainly black ?
wayward archer said:
While I agree with the viewing angle issue, who cares about the response time? 2ms is fast enough that it isn't the root cause of motion blur in LCD's. LCD's sample-and-hold frame display method is what causes our brain's perception of blur, and unfortunately, current (and potentially, future) OLED tech utilizes the same method for displaying frames. You aren't likely to see an advantages in temporal resolution over LCD with OLED.
Agreed
I understand that, and wouldn't expect this to use e-ink. What I was arguing originally however, was the suitability of this to replace textbooks. Other than the form-factor being a bit better, I'm saying this device really wouldn't be any more suitable than a laptop, regardless of it using LCD or OLED. While OLED certainly has advantages over LCD that would make it great for this device (as I stated, I'd pay the premium), I'm stating it would offer no advantages in terms of heavy-duty reading.
Burger said:
I agree the premium would be large, but there's nothing wrong with offering a high-end version. The great thing about tech however, is that it comes down in price. It's obvious that OLED is going to be the next big display tech in the portable segment.
As far as needing more power for whites than LCD, while that may be true right now ... the great thing about an OS or app is that you can typically configure things. Most of my forum trolling (including here on gaf) is utilizing a black background with light gray text. And that's on an LCD. I'm not even doing it for power consumption reasons ... it's simply easier on the eyes.
Crap, all my dev environments are set up that way as well
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