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[Auto_aim1]

Yup. Hell, the fact that the third place console (PS3) will probably sell 70+ million after this gen is over tells you how much the industry has grown.

Competition. Microsoft was really determined this gen. They made a few mistakes at the start but managed to steady the ship quite well. Same goes for Sony. I don't think anyone will ever dominate the industry again.

 

[devilhunterx]

In which heading they put the "free xbox 2" and "rrod replaced xbox 2" under?

 

[TheOddOne]

In which heading they put the "free xbox 2" and "rrod replaced xbox 2" under?

Smh.

Its was a decent thread while it lasted.

 

[Rolf NB]

In which heading they put the "free xbox 2" and "rrod replaced xbox 2" under?

"Inverse goodwill"

 

[NavNucST3]

In which heading they put the "free xbox 2" and "rrod replaced xbox 2" under?

Marketing costs for the first and R&D for the second (to ensure they don't get bitten by that bug again).

 

[Opus Angelorum]

Damn newbies never learn.

 

[[Nintex]]

In which heading they put the "free xbox 2" and "rrod replaced xbox 2" under?

Peter Moore's, J Allard's, Robbie Bach's retirement funds.

 

[Gravijah]

In which heading they put the "free xbox 2" and "rrod replaced xbox 2" under?

the heading next to "peanut butter and jelly toasties"

 

[MrBig]

Must be a lot of R&D money being pumped into the next xbox with all the money this single division brings to MS.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

Must be a lot of R&D money being pumped into the next xbox with all the money this single division brings to MS.

Didn't they just get the 360 up to being profitable, with the Xbox project as a whole still being in the red due to the massive moneysink that the OG Xbox was?

 

[Woody Invincible]

I rebought 2 xboxs due to RROD and e74. My third has a general hardware error now and I'll be damned if I'm pulling my wallet back out. I didn't even play it that much. I was such a xbox fanboi a few years ago as well. It's a shame. There's alot of great games I have that are in storage now waiting for the 720 to come out for the backwards compatibility.

 

[MrBig]

Didn't they just get the 360 up to being profitable, with the Xbox project as a whole still being in the red due to the massive moneysink that the OG Xbox was?

iirc, the MS entertainment division as a whole is one of their most profitable divisions.

 

[Guerrillas in the Mist]

Pretty amazing evolution for the console during its lifecycle. The 360 I have today bears little resemblance to the one I bought in 2006.

Remember this guy?

In many ways I really liked the old blade system, It was bloody quick to get to what you wanted, and it looked futuristic as hell back in 05/06. Weird how things change that quick.

 

[jcm]

iirc, the MS entertainment division as a whole is one of their most profitable divisions.

You remember they make Office and Windows, don't you?

Edit: Here's the number for the just-reported quarter:

Office:     $3661M
Windows:    $3251M
Server:     $1597M
ED&D:        $352M
Bing (lol): -$484M

In his defence, he said "one of the".

It's number 4 of 5, and an order of magnitude less than the big ones.

I think they have recouped much of the loss of OG Xbox?

The truth is, no one really knows. They don't break out gaming numbers.

 

[TheOddOne]

You remember they make Office and Windows, don't you?

In his defence, he said "one of the".

Didn't they just get the 360 up to being profitable, with the Xbox project as a whole still being in the red due to the massive moneysink that the OG Xbox was?

I think they have recouped much of the loss of OG Xbox?

 

[zomgbbqftw]

iirc, the MS entertainment division as a whole is one of their most profitable divisions.

Not really. Mac Office is very profitable and for some inexplicable reason is in EDD, but as a whole EDD is moderately profitable, especially compared to Windows and Office which bring in billions every quarter compared to the hundreds of millions in EDD.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Didn't they just get the 360 up to being profitable, with the Xbox project as a whole still being in the red due to the massive moneysink that the OG Xbox was?

It's not as if the money being made now is being dumped into some "we must pay for stuff we spent in 2001" bin. MS is an enormously profitable company, the 360 division is now self-sustaining.

 

[sly2thefox]

I think you can get banned for bringing this up in sales threads.

You can get banned for speaking the truth about RROD affecting sales. WTF!..

 

[MrBig]

You remember they make Office and Windows, don't you?

Expecting it to be on the same level as their business divisions is pretty unreasonable. I mentioned that in my original post but edited it out.
It's certainly not the black hole it used to be.

 

[FrankT]

They are going into like the 4th fiscal year with a profit. Last 3 have been profitable it just has taken to this point to cover what they have spent this gen. Probably would have been a year or so less if not for RROD. Next two years should provide a nice buffer going into next gen. They need to invest in more 1st party studios however for next gen. Would be nice to see an overall profit level graph for this gen between the 3, Nintendo way out there, MS at break even and Sony somewhere in 3-4B loss range. Could anyone have guessed that last gen. My guesstimate for this gen remains and that is somewhere between 80-100M before all said and done. Should hit 63M this year with another 10 or so for 2012. At 73M by the end of next year that leaves some nice space before the launch of the next box and then of course sales thereafter.

25 million to 80 million or so is a huge leap, but they can do even better if they line up more quality level 1st party studios. Will be interesting to see how they fare next gen and especially so if Sony and MS launch with no year gap. As I have been saying MS will not have that 3rd party advantage this time around if they do which will mean they must come up with a more diversified 1st party and more overall titles in general.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

It's not as if the money being made now is being dumped into some "we must pay for stuff we spent in 2001" bin. MS is an enormously profitable company, the 360 division is now self-sustaining.

The company as a whole is enormously profitable, I was talking specifically about the Xbox project. But by now the project should be in the black, I'd think.

You can get banned for speaking the truth about RROD affecting sales. WTF!..

It's more that '360 sells so much only because people will still buy their 10th 360 after the previous 9 burnt down the house and killed the neighbour's dog derp' thing is percieved as trolling.

 

[Nemo]

In many ways I really liked the old blade system, It was bloody quick to get to what you wanted, and it looked futuristic as hell back in 05/06. Weird how things change that quick.

If they do a few color changes and other minor things it can still be very up to date and advanced looking

 

[strata8]

I think online services like Hotmail, Bing etc. cost money without having much returns. They're more like services for people and companies who use Microsoft products and I believe Microsoft tends to shove everything else unprofitable into that division as well

Hotmail, Messenger, Skydrive, etc, should all come under Windows Live, not Online Services.

 

[jcm]

Expecting it to be on the same level as their business divisions is pretty unreasonable. I mentioned that in my original post but edited it out.
It's certainly not the black hole it used to be.

You said "the MS entertainment division as a whole is one of their most profitable divisions". That statement is simply wrong.

 

[MrBig]

You said "the MS entertainment division as a whole is one of their most profitable divisions". That statement is simply wrong.

Yes, that was worded badly.
Revenue of Q3/4 2010.
Windows & Windows Live Division $9,839 (million)
Server and Tools 8,349
Online Services Division 1,218
Microsoft Business Division 11,157
Entertainment and Devices Division 5,493
Unallocated and other 92

I just mean to say that the EDD is finally looking up compared to what it used to be. Last time I ever enter a thread like this with all the hostility to be found over simple statements.

 

[Jokeropia]

The company as a whole is enormously profitable, I was talking specifically about the Xbox project. But by now the project should be in the black, I'd think.

I don't think so. The division is still down ~$5 billion total, and while we don't know the Xbox numbers specifically it's unlikely to make up for the difference.

Would be nice to see an overall profit level graph for this gen between the 3, Nintendo way out there, MS at break even and Sony somewhere in 3-4B loss range.

This chart starts in 96, but the FYs are listed so you can see where this gen is:

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

I don't think so. The division is still down ~$5 billion total, and while we don't know the Xbox numbers specifically it's unlikely to make up for the difference.

This chart starts in 96, but the FYs are listed so you can see where this gen is:

So Sony never lost all of the money it made from PS1 and PS2. MS seems a bit far to recoup their losses from the OG Xbox. Nintendo is flying sky high.

 

[smallios74]

Is the fact that both MS and Sony Games division are now part of other divisions (or include others) mean that most of these graphs showing the last X years or so of profits a bit misleading?

 

[alphaNoid]

You can get banned for speaking the truth about RROD affecting sales. WTF!..

Yes Junior, you can get banned for trolling sales threads with comments about RROD. Its been this way for probably 4 years now.

 

[Jokeropia]

Is the fact that both MS and Sony Games division are now part of other divisions (or include others) mean that most of these graphs showing the last X years or so of profits a bit misleading?

Unfortunately, the MS and Sony numbers pretty much get more diluted the more recent they are.

 

[Psychotext]

Is the fact that both MS and Sony Games division are now part of other divisions (or include others) mean that most of these graphs showing the last X years or so of profits a bit misleading?

Extremely misleading. Was pretty much the reason I stopped tracking the data last year.

They'll very occasionally split out their revenue, but I've never seem them split out the profit figures for only gaming related items. It was bad enough when MS had the 360 in with random profit killers like Zune, but the addition of Windows phone made the figures (in relation to gaming) almost meaningless.

The situation with Sony's figures was even worse after they merged gaming with their laptop / PC / Walkman divisions to make Networked Products & Services then made it even more confused by further merging their TVs and other consumer products into Consumer Products & Devices.

These figures don't really tell you anything about the profits / losses of the individual gaming divisions of either company any more.

 

[KageMaru]

A part of me hopes MS has to eat crow with all their boasting about outselling their competitors world wide this year. They really need to drop the price before getting so cocky.

I don't think so. The division is still down ~$5 billion total, and while we don't know the Xbox numbers specifically it's unlikely to make up for the difference.

I can try to get confirmation but IIRC MS basically wrote off the debt produced by xbox1. It's an investment to break into the games industry, thus they aren't concerned with making back money lost last gen.

 

[Dai101]

In which heading they put the "free xbox 2" and "rrod replaced xbox 2" under?

 

[Ash Sparrow]

The 360 is now going to start recouping money that the first XBOX Losses. the question is just how long can it do it until new losses from the next gen console offset that.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

In which heading they put the "free xbox 2" and "rrod replaced xbox 2" under?

Biography:
I am ... complicated

 

[jedimike]

The 360 is now going to start recouping money that the first XBOX Losses. the question is just how long can it do it until new losses from the next gen console offset that.

Read psychotext's post above... You can't make that assumption based upon MS earnings statements. There have been so many products that have existed in the same division as Xbox that you cannot draw any conclusion as to the financial impact of Xbox to MS. You're just pissing in the wind.

 

[oldergamer]

People that keep bringing up past Xbox expense from last gen need to realize that all of that was written off. It didn't hurt MS then, and it's not now! It has no bearing on current profit.

 

[Jokeropia]

It never had any bearing on current profit, but that doesn't mean it never happened and it can't be ignored if you wanna talk about the Xbox project in totality.

The problem going forward however is that the numbers are becoming so diluted that continued tracking is pretty pointless. Sony's new division merger pushed me over the edge and I probably won't be updating that chart anymore.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

A part of me hopes MS has to eat crow with all their boasting about outselling their competitors world wide this year. They really need to drop the price before getting so cocky.

I'm guessing $150 this Xmas. I think they hold the all time record for holding their price the longest.

 

[jcm]

I'm guessing $150 this Xmas. I think they hold the all time record for holding their price the longest.

You mean next month? It seems kind of late for that, doesn't it? Lots of gift cards and promo credits seems more likely to me, and probably some really good Black Friday deals.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

You mean next month? It seems kind of late for that, doesn't it? Lots of gift cards and promo credits seems more likely to me, and probably some really good Black Friday deals.

Looks at calendar.... crap, you're right.

 

[Ash Sparrow]

Read psychotext's post above... You can't make that assumption based upon MS earnings statements. There have been so many products that have existed in the same division as Xbox that you cannot draw any conclusion as to the financial impact of Xbox to MS. You're just pissing in the wind.

I don't think so. Most of those products were a drag on the division right. I guess its going to take MS coming out and saying overall 360 has been profitable,for people to believe. I think that's going to happen tho.

 

[Ash Sparrow]

Actually i believe if the numbers are seperated we'll see 360 has long since recouped its losses

 

[Psychotext]

Actually i believe if the numbers are seperated we'll see 360 has long since recouped its losses

I'd agree, but it's not really the sort of thing Microsoft are likely to announce.

 

[LowEndTorque]

Lately, I've been curious about how kinect has been faring since that big announcement that 10m units were sold. Wonder if it will perform well this holiday season.

 

[Subitai]

A part of me hopes MS has to eat crow with all their boasting about outselling their competitors world wide this year. They really need to drop the price before getting so cocky.

With PS3 keeping competitive in NA, I don't know if the holiday bounce will be big enough to offset Japan/EU this year. MS is planning on riding CoD and pushing Kinect again, but who knows if the results will be the same.