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[Odrion]

How can their senior figures and PR team misread the public THAT much THAT often though? Every figure or claim MS releases to try and counter some bad press or rumor immediately cuts to a CSI montage of the internet hive mind as well as media outlets subjecting it to the scientific method. How could they justify releasing something as factual and think that it wouldn't be parsed to shreds, ending up in a hole deeper than they were before? It boggles my mind.

After what they originally tried to pull off with the Xbone, does it really surprise you that they have little respect for gamers?

edit: I can't wait for their marketing campaign's slogan to be "X-Box One: The Most Powerful Console Ever". If they can't get their message across through misinformation and lies, they'll definitely do so by relentlessly assaulting us with their money.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

After what they originally tried to pull off with the Xbone, does it really surprise you that they have little respect for gamers?

If by respect for gamers, you mean expecting gamers to understand that what kinds of games a machine is capable of producing is a much more complex thing than simply looking at who has the better numbers? Expecting gamers to understand from past experience that it isn't always right to ask what the hardware can do, but often more useful to ask instead what the right developer can do with the hardware?

The audacity of those rich folks up at MS.

 

[Loakum]

So the PS4 is really 40%more powerful than the Xbox One? Heeeyy

 

[Yoday]

You don't seem to understand.

Then main reason (meaning, outside the fact that the first Kinect is pretty bad) that there aren't a whole lot of Kinect games is because not everyone has a Kinect. Why take advantage of Kinect when only a minority of people are using it?

The reason Microsoft are making it mandatory is so developers can rely on it and know that whenever they make a game, they can use Kinect. It's called being developer friendly, and if developers are able to expand on this concept and do all the cool things people think of, then it will become consumer friendly as well. It simply cannot become cool until a substantial number of people have it and are available to buy games that use it. If Microsoft does not make it mandatory, then there is no way people are going to experience because these people, because they have used the og Kinect and know it's terrible (or haven't and are just relying on their imagination based on what other people have said), these people are now biased against it. Now that Kinect is capable of doing all that cool awesome stuff, they need to show developers that it will always be there to use and be worth the effort (and effort, in the business world, means "risk").

What developers are you speaking of? The only developers that can rely on Kinect are those working on Xbone exclusives. Since the PS4 does not have a Kinect, or even a camera packed in, multiplatform games will never have any kind of meaningful Kinect functionality. It will be exactly like it is today with little more than gimmicky voice commands and meaningless gestures. The Kinect is not a gaming device, and the lack of any real Kinect support in first party games from MS proves that. Kinect is nothing more than a marketing machine and the desire for MS to revolutionize the way people interact with TV's the same way Apple revolutionized the way people interact with phones.

 

[Fresh Face]

Am I the only one not impressed by Infamous? Seriously? Every screenshot I've looked at has low res ground textures, clipping of the special effects, choppy clothes modeling, bad looking hair, etc.

Why is it so impressive? Honest question.

What developers are you speaking of? The only developers that can rely on Kinect are those working on Xbone exclusives. Since the PS4 does not have a Kinect, or even a camera packed in, multiplatform games will never have any kind of meaningful Kinect functionality. It will be exactly like it is today with little more than gimmicky voice commands and meaningless gestures. The Kinect is not a gaming device, and the lack of any real Kinect support in first party games from MS proves that. Kinect is nothing more than a marketing machine and the desire for MS to revolutionize the way people interact with TV's the same way Apple revolutionized the way people interact with phones.

I apologize profusely but I don't know their names. I have read about several developers who have expressed how cool the Kinect concept was and how sad it was that they could not practically develop for it.

Also, that's not true that only first party developers. Ubisoft did a bunch of games for Kinect. Some of them were pretty good too. With the PS4 having a camera as an option and Kinect as mandatory, the odds are significantly increased that a person is going to be able to use this. There's plenty of opportunity for a company to make a game for Xbox and PS4 and have the PS4 version say "requires PSEye" (though of course the Xbone version would be better, but hey, that always happens with multiplats) but this generation around it would actually be financially feasible.

 

[WrenchNinja]

If by respect for gamers, you mean expecting gamers to understand that what kinds of games a machine is capable of producing is a much more complex thing than simply looking at who has the better numbers? Expecting gamers to understand from past experience that it isn't always right to ask what the hardware can do, but often more useful to ask instead what the right developer can do with the hardware?

The audacity of those rich folks up at MS.

Do you ever get dizzy?

 

[DoDonGouki]

Tech-wise....imagine it like that :

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Am I the only one not impressed by Infamous? Seriously? Every screenshot I've looked at has low res ground textures, clipping of the special effects, choppy clothes modeling, bad looking hair, etc.

Why is it so impressive? Honest question.

The game is still in dev but it definitely looks good for all the effects and the fact that it's a launch window open world game.

 

[Wickerbasket]

Am I the only one not impressed by Infamous? Seriously? Every screenshot I've looked at has low res ground textures, clipping of the special effects, choppy clothes modeling, bad looking hair, etc.

Why is it so impressive? Honest question.

 

[timlot]

So the PS4 is really 40%more powerful than the Xbox One? Heeeyy

I think I stared at that gif too long.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

So the PS4 is really 40%more powerful than the Xbox One? Heeeyy

Okay, that killed me. I'm done lol.

 

[statham]

Tech-wise....imagine it like that :

okay this got me.

 

[Fresh Face]

The game is still in dev but it definitely looks good for all the effects and the fact that it's a launch window open world game.

Ok, yes the effects are good, but it just (to me) looks like it'd work on current gen. Look at GTAV and then look back. They look very similar (with some minor improvements of course. It just doesn't look like they took a whole lot of advantage with the improved hardware).

Obviously I'll wait till I actually get my hands on it to pass final judgment.

 

[I2amza]

Am I the only one not impressed by Infamous? Seriously? Every screenshot I've looked at has low res ground textures, clipping of the special effects, choppy clothes modeling, bad looking hair, etc.

Why is it so impressive? Honest question.

Wut?

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

This is what they should have originally said, and just left it at that.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Am I the only one not impressed by Infamous? Seriously? Every screenshot I've looked at has low res ground textures, clipping of the special effects, choppy clothes modeling, bad looking hair, etc.

Why is it so impressive? Honest question.



I apologize profusely but I don't know their names. I have read about several developers who have expressed how cool the Kinect concept was and how sad it was that they could not practically develop for it.

Also, that's not true that only first party developers. Ubisoft did a bunch of games for Kinect. Some of them were pretty good too. With the PS4 having a camera as an option and Kinect as mandatory, the odds are significantly increased that a person is going to be able to use this. There's plenty of opportunity for a company to make a game for Xbox and PS4 and have the PS4 version say "requires PSEye" (though of course the Xbone version would be better, but hey, that always happens with multiplats) but this generation around it would actually be financially feasible.

Im impressed by some particle effects but to me it dont look much different than watch_dogs. I remember one thread some compared the grass in both and i famous looked a little suspect.

 

[Uno Venova]

Daffy you are such a loser.

 

[Fresh Face]

Wut?

I'm not talking about how beautiful it looks, because frankly, I think it looks gorgeous. I'm just not impressed at all.

First picture looks like NFS: Most Wanted (the new one).

Second looks like batman. Look at the ground on the right.... Ugly.

Third looks good. The character models are better than the last time I saw. Clothes are improved. But look at the ground and the surroundings (and the guy's face). I almost feel like, with lower res clothing textures, and a lower overall render resolution you could get a very comparable game on PS360.

Im impressed by some particle effects but to me it dont look much different than watch_dogs. I remember one thread some compared the grass in both and i famous looked a little suspect.

Yes the particle effects are very good, but that's about it. Ryse has very good particle effects -- we now have excellent particle physics coming from destructible objects (such as the sail, sand, etc.) -- that are just as impressive as Infamous's. Infamous's particle effects just look better because they're pretty. Not overall more impressive, but people are acting like seeing infamous is like seeing the second coming.

It's like:

Person 1: Ryse looks good
Me: yeah. Pretty impressive. Too bad the multiplayer is having troubles.
Person 2: Ryse looks horrible!
Person 1: What?
Me: Waaat?
Person: Infamous looks so much better!!!

Me: *facepalm* Thinks: Son? Do you even logic? Just assuming that Infamous does look waaay better like you seem to think, how does that mean that Ryse looks terrible? Back to reality, yes, Ryse is very comparable visually to Infamous. The lighting, for one, is much more realistic. Shadows are better.

I'm seeing this way too often guys.

 

[Nibiru]

One of the worst PR teams ever.

 

[KingFire]

Wut?

PC already does this. Why do we need to be impressed by this again?

 

[BleachAndPepsi]

You don't seem to understand.

Then main reason (meaning, outside the fact that the first Kinect is pretty bad) that there aren't a whole lot of Kinect games is because not everyone has a Kinect. Why take advantage of Kinect when only a minority of people are using it?

The reason Microsoft are making it mandatory is so developers can rely on it and know that whenever they make a game, they can use Kinect. It's called being developer friendly, and if developers are able to expand on this concept and do all the cool things people think of, then it will become consumer friendly as well. It simply cannot become cool until a substantial number of people have it and are available to buy games that use it. If Microsoft does not make it mandatory, then there is no way people are going to experience because these people, because they have used the og Kinect and know it's terrible (or haven't and are just relying on their imagination based on what other people have said), these people are now biased against it. Now that Kinect is capable of doing all that cool awesome stuff, they need to show developers that it will always be there to use and be worth the effort (and effort, in the business world, means "risk").

I'd look to first parties to possibly make some compelling software for Kinect, but not third parties. The cost/benefit just isn't there, particularly if the PS4 winds up taking a massive sales lead.

Think about it: If you're making a multiplatform game, why would you spend loads and loads of money designing, implementing, testing, and marketing a feature that only a portion of your potential audience can use (since PS4 players can't).

Instead, you'll likely just get a bunch of tacked on voice commands and shit, just like this gen. It's the safe bet, particularly when AAA development is such risky business as it is.


Edit: basically this:

What developers are you speaking of? The only developers that can rely on Kinect are those working on Xbone exclusives. Since the PS4 does not have a Kinect, or even a camera packed in, multiplatform games will never have any kind of meaningful Kinect functionality. It will be exactly like it is today with little more than gimmicky voice commands and meaningless gestures. The Kinect is not a gaming device, and the lack of any real Kinect support in first party games from MS proves that. Kinect is nothing more than a marketing machine and the desire for MS to revolutionize the way people interact with TV's the same way Apple revolutionized the way people interact with phones.

 

[Can Crusher]

So the latest spin is complexity and efficiency. I dig it.

 

[Truespeed]

Microsoft should do a Nokia and just buy Sony.

 

[soul creator]

This is what they should have originally said,

Penello: "that's what we did say!"

and just left it at that.

Penello: "shit, you got me there."

 

[Uno Venova]

PC already does this. Why do we need to be impressed by this again?

The pictures show it doesn't have low res ground textures. It's hard to get what your point actually is.

 

[Joeki11a]

MS just keeps on stepping on crap....

Jesus just be quiet

What are they trying to argue this?

 

[BleachAndPepsi]

If by respect for gamers, you mean expecting gamers to understand that what kinds of games a machine is capable of producing is a much more complex thing than simply looking at who has the better numbers? Expecting gamers to understand from past experience that it isn't always right to ask what the hardware can do, but often more useful to ask instead what the right developer can do with the hardware?

The audacity of those rich folks up at MS.

Pew pew pew games?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

InFamous: Second Son >= Killzone Shadow Fall >>> Drive Club >>> Ryse/Forza >>> The rest

That's how I'd rank the exclusives so far. Ryse doesn't do much for me. Looks pretty bland in comparison to something like God of War, despite having some higher fidelity visuals in areas.

 

[I2amza]

I'm not talking about how beautiful it looks, because frankly, I think it looks gorgeous. I'm just not impressed at all.

First picture looks like NFS: Most Wanted (the new one).

Second looks like batman. Look at the ground on the right.... Ugly.

Third looks good. The character models are better than the last time I saw. Clothes are improved. But look at the ground and the surroundings (and the guy's face). I almost feel like, with lower res clothing textures, and a lower overall render resolution you could get a very comparable game on PS360.

You said low res ground texture, and I posted screenshots of the ground and I have not seen low res ground textures.

PC already does this. Why do we need to be impressed by this again?

I know PCs have godly IQ because their inherent raw power. Thank you Captain Obvious.

 

[ced]

I could give 2 shits about this spec battle, but fuck I hate PR responses like that.

 

[Fresh Face]

I'd look to first parties to possibly make some compelling software for Kinect, but not third parties. The cost/benefit just isn't there, particularly if the PS4 winds up taking a massive sales lead.

Think about it: If you're making a multiplatform game, why would you spend loads and loads of money designing, implementing, testing, and marketing a feature that only a portion of your potential audience can use (since PS4 players can't).

Instead, you'll likely just get a bunch of tacked on voice commands and shit, just like this gen. It's the safe bet, particularly when AAA development is such risky business as it is.


Edit: basically this:

Not "can't" it's called PS4 players may or may not be able to.

Read my other responding to a guy who responded to the same post you did. (scroll up past the infamous stuff)

You said low res ground texture, and I posted screenshots of the ground and I have not seen low res ground textures.

They look pretty bad. Killzone, Tom Clancy's the Division, Forza, Drive Club. They all look a lot better.

Deadrising 3? I can't remember what the ground looked like on that one.

I know PCs have godly IQ because their inherent raw power. Thank you Captain Obvious.

Lol It's not that we're impressed because we've never seen this before, it's that we're impressed that these consoles can now do it.

 

[Truespeed]

The typical Microsoft response - avoid the question and perform a sales pitch.

 

[Fresh Face]

The typical Microsoft response - avoid the question and perform a sales pitch.

Except they weren't avoiding it. The answer is applicable. They said that the power isn't quite so amazing, that they have good engineers and that they're features will help make for better games, which is what gaming is really all about.

Just sayin what they said. Whether you agree with them or not, they did answer the question directly.

 

[BleachAndPepsi]

Not "can't" it's called PS4 players may or may not be able to.

Read my other responding to a guy who responded to the same post you did. (scroll up past the infamous stuff)

I read it.

If you honestly think devs are going to spend that kind of money and time developing awesome new features for a multiplat game, when only a portion of their audience will have access to it and even fewer will care, I don't know what to tell you.

If you want to be excited for Kinect, that's great. Be excited for the multimedia features and the first party games. But when it comes to third party, just get used to shouting "GRENADE!" to throw a grenade.

 

[RobotRocker]

The typical Microsoft response - avoid the question and perform a sales pitch.

You're expecting PR to not be PR.

Hell, I'm shocked they even responded to comments asking about an article with "Anonymous Sources" since that could be so easily spinned into TALES FROM MY ASS VI: THE UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY easily, even if it is on a gaming site, since they had statements from devs like Carmack and Kojima saying otherwise.

 

[FACE]

Post that again when the PC is begging for ports.

It is more like the two cool kids in school (XB1, PS4) trying to impress a girl, and a nerd (PC) keeps interrupting claiming he is better because he can recite Pi to 100 decimal places. Yea it is impressive, but nobody cares.

 

[Fushichou187]

If by respect for gamers, you mean expecting gamers to understand that what kinds of games a machine is capable of producing is a much more complex thing than simply looking at who has the better numbers? Expecting gamers to understand from past experience that it isn't always right to ask what the hardware can do, but often more useful to ask instead what the right developer can do with the hardware?

I don't think you'll find many people (if any) argue that raw specs alone = superior games; as someone that owns a PS3 I am stupefied by what ND accomplished on TLoU with such antiquated hardware. A janky pawn shop violin can sound amazing in the hands of a master just as a stradivarius can sound like ass if you put it in my hands. Nobody here doubts that some of the developers creating games exclusively for MS-- particularly 5 or 6 years from now-- are going to be bringing amazing experiences to Xbone owners.

Part of what I do think is at the heart of a lot of vitriol was MS' overreach in terms of vision and strategy for the inevitable march towards an all-digital future. They labored years to craft that strategy and create a box that would be its avatar and the general consensus was "Fuck. that." which caught they flat-footed and sent them into a tailspin in terms of messaging, getting into an almost adversarial mode with consumers, current MS supporters and detractors alike. They started right off the bat with a deficit in the trust department with the buying public-- particularly probable first adopters like those here on GAF-- and needed to drop the PR spin bullshit and really talk in a real way (as opposed to the way they think we ought to be talked to) about what their plan was/is/will be/whatever but instead continue to send out people like Mr. Hryb and Mr. Penello to fall on the PR sword by posting more spin.

tl;dr You don't win Hearts & Minds by continually trying to get in our pants as opposed to attempting to have a conversation and find out our likes and dislikes. Tactics, man. Tactics.

 

[Akainu]

don't know what any of you expect them to say other than this.

Nothing?

 

[Klocker]

Lol

everyone is over reacting

games will be close and XBO is closer to PS4 than that article is misrepresenting

sounds like its old and premature.

the truth will come out in time and games will look the same by and large

 

[KingFire]

The pictures show it doesn't have low res ground textures. It's hard to get what your point actually is.

Remember most companies release BS screenshots. Even if those were legit, it wouldn't be impressive at all. As I said, the PC already does this.

 

[Truespeed]

You're expecting PR to not be PR.

Hell, I'm shocked they even responded to comments asking about an article with "Anonymous Sources" since that could be so easily spinned into TALES FROM MY ASS VI: THE UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY easily, even if it is on a gaming site, since they had statements from devs like Carmack and Kojima saying otherwise.

I know, how silly. They need to either go dark or just admit that there's a performance advantage, but that their games will speak for them. That's all they need to do. Don't try to fight math and physics with PR bullshit. You just end up looking like a fool when the truth comes out.

 

[BleachAndPepsi]

Lol

everyone is over reacting

games will be close and XBO is closer to PS4 than that article is misrepresenting

sounds like its old and premature.

the truth will come out in time and games will look the same by and large

Couldn't be that old. It mentions the upclocking.

But it's good to learn you know more about the situation than the several devs they talked to. I assume you're an insider or maybe a dev?

 

[biggersmaller]

I fully expect first party PS4 games to blow away XBO games. The spec difference is simply too drastic for it to be otherwise. I don't have faith for third party devs to take advantage of the additional power due to console parity or as EDGE put it, 'politics'.

Absolutely.

I will be purchasing a PS4 day one for the same reasons anyone else will. Those choosing Xbone can cling to the hope derived from past console generations having the least powerful console still be the most popular and feature the best titles.

However, there is no need to flatly deny and dispute facts. The PS4 has the tech advantage.

 

[painful fart]

"Xbox One architecture is much more complex..."

Did they take another page out of Kutaragis handbook How to screw up a console launch?

 

[Wickerbasket]

Remember most companies release BS screenshots. Even if those were legit, it wouldn't be impressive at all. As I said, the PC already does this.

What am I even reading?

No one's talking about PC. It's impressive compared to current gen console stuff, how is this hard to grasp.

 

[BleachAndPepsi]

Remember most companies release BS screenshots. Even if those were legit, it wouldn't be impressive at all. As I said, the PC already does this.

I checked the thread title and the OP over and over again, but I can't find any place where it mentions PC.

I'm going to shoot a hypothesis out there, and although it may sound crazy, bear with me. Could it be that maybe, just maybe, this is a thread about consoles and has absolutely jack shit to do with PCs?

Give it a thought and get back with me.

Spoiler

I'm honestly not trying to shit on you. It just gets tiring having PC brought up in every console thread. We all know PC is just the greatest place ever. But we're talking consoles. Bringing up PC adds nothing to the thread and usually just derails it. Please stahp.

 

[Metzhara]

InFamous: Second Son >= Killzone Shadow Fall >>> Drive Club >>> Ryse/Forza >>> The rest

That's how I'd rank the exclusives so far. Ryse doesn't do much for me. Looks pretty bland in comparison to something like God of War, despite having some higher fidelity visuals in areas.

I played "Ryse" at E3 and was unimpressed overall. There were some great things, and it was nice to see a Cryengine game at the show (want something other than Unreal for a change.) At least during E3 (which was months ago) there weren't any of the anticipated titles playable by floor attendees and those that could play were hand held. I never trust those playthroughs.
That said however, I couldn't have cared less about Infamous: SS when I entered the booth and I realized, even if it was demoed, it did look amazing. Killzone didn't really wow me at all but it did remind me how we should expect the clarity from future titles. All titles (on both consoles) live up to that at least.
Now, however, as I look more at some of the games I wasn't interested in such as Ryse, I'm finding it DOES look more interesting and much more beautiful than they first showed. I saw some gameplay in a jungle like environment and I was actually impressed. I almost dislike myself for thinking I MIGHT want it.
As for Drive Club and Forza 5, I played both. Forza 5 has what I love... great physics. I honestly don't care as much about anything else. Drive Club was sufficient, but didn't quite have the "simulation" feel I love, but it wasn't terrible. I think it's a good game to give people who want a decent enough sim and are waiting for GT6 (7?). It was definitely the strategy for Sony to include a FREE variant of the first major title announced for Xbox One, Forza 5.
I think, for me, graphics are important in some aspects but not in the way most people think. When sprites were the thing, 3D wowed us. When 3D was the thing, definintion wowed us. In this future generation, it's both that definition, but much more it is "clarity." All next gen titles (every one) had an amazing level of sharpness and clarity that, quite frankly, blew me away. I think even current gen games would impress me given that level of clarity, which is quite odd considering you'd THINK that's merely resolution, but it's so much more.
Let's be honest: If we're getting a PS4, most of us are getting KZ:SF. Same goes for Xbox One and Ryse. There might be people who post who claim otherwise, but these games are meant to be the honey drawing in the colony of gamers. I'm getting both... as long as my bank account stays right where it is. -Adam

 

[Odrion]

Y'know, wasn't Cerny's response to the power differences in the consoles "well, you won't see the differences until a couple years"?

So humble, and not lying to our faces.

 

[BleachAndPepsi]

I played "Ryse" at E3 and was unimpressed overall. There were some great things, and it was nice to see a Cryengine game at the show (want something other than Unreal for a change.) At least during E3 (which was months ago) there weren't any of the anticipated titles playable by floor attendees and those that could play were hand held. I never trust those playthroughs.
That said however, I couldn't have cared less about Infamous: SS when I entered the booth and I realized, even if it was demoed, it did look amazing. Killzone didn't really wow me at all but it did remind me how we should expect the clarity from future titles. All titles (on both consoles) live up to that at least.
Now, however, as I look more at some of the games I wasn't interested in such as Ryse, I'm finding it DOES look more interesting and much more beautiful than they first showed. I saw some gameplay in a jungle like environment and I was actually impressed. I almost dislike myself for thinking I MIGHT want it.
As for Drive Club and Forza 5, I played both. Forza 5 has what I love... great physics. I honestly don't care as much about anything else. Drive Club was sufficient, but didn't quite have the "simulation" feel I love, but it wasn't terrible. I think it's a good game to give people who want a decent enough sim and are waiting for GT6 (7?). It was definitely the strategy for Sony to include a FREE variant of the first major title announced for Xbox One, Forza 5.
I think, for me, graphics are important in some aspects but not in the way most people think. When sprites were the thing, 3D wowed us. When 3D was the thing, definintion wowed us. In this future generation, it's both that definition, but much more it is "clarity." All next gen titles (every one) had an amazing level of sharpness and clarity that, quite frankly, blew me away. I think even current gen games would impress me given that level of clarity, which is quite odd considering you'd THINK that's merely resolution, but it's so much more.
Let's be honest: If we're getting a PS4, most of us are getting KZ:SF. Same goes for Xbox One and Ryse. There might be people who post who claim otherwise, but these games are meant to be the honey drawing in the colony of gamers. I'm getting both... as long as my bank account stays right where it is. -Adam

Did you actually play Killzone and Infamous?

 

[Uno Venova]

Remember most companies release BS screenshots. Even if those were legit, it wouldn't be impressive at all. As I said, the PC already does this.

Yeah, I know it's common for people to frequently talk about PC superiority, but I don't get how it relates to that conversation. If people are judging on the released media those pictures apply.