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[Karsticles]

the biggest game of 2004 is still online, and has always been always-online.

I think he just made reference to WoW....you know....THE MMO...

This is an especially bad example because anyone who has played WoW knows that the servers go down for:
1) Maintenance
2) Patching
3) Reboots
4) No Reason

I'm not saying the game is unstable (it's generally very reliable), but we've all had an evening ruined because, mid-raid, a message popped up that said "Server restarting in 10 minutes...", and we've all had days where we wanted to play but maintenance was preventing it, or the servers were overpopulated.

These are acceptable shortcomings because WoW is inherently an online experience. There's no way I would want all of this crap added to my RPGs and such.

 

[Veronica]

If this doesn't get MS to change their minds, nothing will.

 

[StrongArmSteady]

Let's just ignore that fool. He is making a jackass off himself by white knighting for companies or easily offended people. He is obviously trying to suck his way into the other side of the industry. Good for him. But let's just ignore him.

yeah, another Gaffer mentioned it too...will stop now...but that WoW tweet was sooo good

 

[Grief.exe]

FGC events would all go PS4-only without hesitation if the 720 requires an internet connection just to start up. Fighting game tournies are open tournaments that draw hundreds (or thousands in the case of Evo) entrants and tournament matches are played on dozens of consoles at a time. Having to ensure that dozens of consoles have reliable connections to hotel internet? Logistical fucking nightmare.

If both the PS4 and 720 were to have the same persistent internet requirement, the FGC would be forced to go exclusively PC across the board, and games that aren't released on the PC would be excluded.

A similar thing happens at League of Legends Tournaments now since they don't have an offline game mode.

 

[Raitosaito]

I really feel like Microsoft can still take the next generation from consumers. Look at antennagate (iPhone 4), that did not stop Apple from having the best year in sales.

If you look at sales numbers Microsoft's best selling titles are multiplayer shooters, and their main demographic is likely not going to be effected by this. They probably just look at some numbers and do not realize how unfriendly this is to individual consumers, considering they probably focus tested COD players and called them "hard core" gamers.

 

[dragonelite]

This is an especially bad example because anyone who has played WoW knows that the servers go down for:
1) Maintenance
2) Patching
3) Reboots
4) No Reason

I'm not saying the game is unstable (it's generally very reliable), but we've all had an evening ruined because, mid-raid, a message popped up that said "Server restarting in 10 minutes...", and we've all had days where we wanted to play but maintenance was preventing it, or the servers were overpopulated.

These are acceptable shortcomings because WoW is inherently an online experience. There's no way I would want all of this crap added to my RPGs and such.

do they still have queues with expansion packs releases?

 

[ekim]

"Customer centric" does not necessarily have to reflect what most people on NeoGAF (or other gaming sites) feel about "always on". "Customer centric" could be spun as "We have incorporated the always online aspects of Xbox Durango entertainment console to in best ways possible be able to provide consumers with heightened security, stability, and reliability, as well as new and improved means to purchase and use products and features through Xbox LIVE entertainment services."

It's the message seen as from the eyes of the beholder that's important in this context.

You are probably right but in the context of what 99% of the people that read these news today would find non-customer centric, I keep my 1% of hope.

 

[DigitalOp]

MS would have been better served saying nothing than the generic, corporate gibberish PR filtered through the Major Nelson blog. People see through it easily.

Well, The PR proves one thing.


Microsoft sees this issue. They aren't ignoring it. It's right in there face. They are either:

A) Banging their heads on the board table in anger

B) Discussing what changes or what features to add to make the package look more enticing despite what it truly is

C) Actively abandoning ship and removing their online requirement from the system, So come time to reveal, It will look like we made all this up in our wild imaginations...


The answer is either B or C + A
Lol

 

[thebaroness]

This has been an interesting circus to watch from afar.

I will say it's straight up offensive to exclude a large chuck of your customers by insulting the area in which they live. Yeah ok, maybe not everyone is lucky to live in a large very connected city, does that mean you still don't want their money?

I mean fuck, I live in Chicago, one of the largest cities in the country. And in my old place, the internet service provider was horrible yet it was our only choice. Sometimes I would sit and PLAY GAMES because I couldn't get any work done since the internet was out.

 

[BobTheFork]

Dude, it's a fucking Tweet, what 'out of context'? You aren't extracting it from some long article. It's self contained, that would be the point.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Can we call him a clown yet?

$750k can buy you some friends, it seems.

 

[Cheech]

T

Right now they seem as arrogant as Sony was in 2005. Good luck with that MS.

They haven't announced ANYTHING. Where does this "arrogance" come from? Because some douchebag employee went off script?

Compared to some of the shit Sony has said at actual conferences by actual Sony spokespeople, this is nothing. Does it make any rational sense to break a game when your Internet goes down?

 

[Grief.exe]

I really feel like Microsoft can still take the next generation from consumers. Look at antennagate (iPhone 4), that did not stop Apple from having the best year in sales.

If you look at sales numbers Microsoft's best selling titles are multiplayer shooters, and their main demographic is likely not going to be effected by this. They probably just look at some numbers and do not realize how unfriendly this is to individual consumers, considering they probably focus tested COD players and called them "hard core" gamers.

Just look at sales of SimCity and Diablo 3

Publishers, Developers, and even the Console Hardware providers themselves will continue to treat us like crack addicts.

Because that is what we are. We know these things are bad products and will hurt the industry as a whole, but we continue to buy them.

 

[Jomjom]

FGC events would all go PS4-only without hesitation if the 720 requires an internet connection just to start up. Fighting game tournies are open tournaments that draw hundreds (or thousands in the case of Evo) entrants and tournament matches are played on dozens of consoles at a time. Having to ensure that dozens of consoles have reliable connections to hotel internet? Logistical fucking nightmare.

If both the PS4 and 720 were to have the same persistent internet requirement, the FGC would be forced to go exclusively PC across the board, and games that aren't released on the PC would be excluded.

Not if MS finally decides to sponsor events like how Sony sponsors Evo. Despite the PS3 being the inferior console for all fighting games, they still use the PS3 at Evo because of the sponsorship. This would be the same regardless of always online.

 

[Lionel Mandrake]

Is there any conceivable way at this point MS could still pull-off an Always On announcement without looking like tools?

 

[monlo]

if ISPs didn't collude and decide to NEVER upgrade their network, then maybe we could have always online?

 

[Beckx]

I really feel like Microsoft can still take the next generation from consumers. Look at antennagate (iPhone 4), that did not stop Apple from having the best year in sales.

And on the flip side, you have Windows 8.

 

[itsgreen]

This is an especially bad example because anyone who has played WoW knows that the servers go down for:
1) Maintenance
2) Patching
3) Reboots
4) No Reason

I'm not saying the game is unstable (it's generally very reliable), but we've all had an evening ruined because, mid-raid, a message popped up that said "Server restarting in 10 minutes...", and we've all had days where we wanted to play but maintenance was preventing it, or the servers were overpopulated.

These are acceptable shortcomings because WoW is inherently an online experience. There's no way I would want all of this crap added to my RPGs and such.

Also it's an online game.

But there is zero reason for me not being able to play a single player game offline. Except when you SimCity it and throw in arbitrary online hooks just so you can defend its need for a connection.

Especially when my internet is down I want to be able to play a game. Nothing else to do, so why not do a couple of laps in my race game du jour.

 

[Veronica]

Is there any conceivable way at this point MS could still pull-off an Always On announcement without looking like tools?

no

 

[DigitalOp]

Just look at sales of SimCity and Diablo 3

Publishers, Developers, and even the Console Hardware providers themselves will continue to treat us like crack addicts.

Because that is what we are. We know these things are bad products and will hurt the industry as a whole, but we continue to buy them.

QFT

Vote with your wallet actually means something. Its not just forum speak

 

[Dibbz]

Well, The PR proves one thing.


Microsoft sees this issue. They aren't ignoring it. It's right in there face. They are either:

A) Banging their heads on the board table in anger

B) Discussing what changes or what features to add to make the package look more enticing despite what it truly is

C) Actively abandoning ship and removing their online requirement from the system, So come time to reveal, It will look like we made all this up in our wild imaginations...


The answer is either B or C + A
Lol

D) Release a console with always online required

 

[Zerokku]

This is an especially bad example because anyone who has played WoW knows that the servers go down for:
1) Maintenance
2) Patching
3) Reboots
4) No Reason

I'm not saying the game is unstable (it's generally very reliable), but we've all had an evening ruined because, mid-raid, a message popped up that said "Server restarting in 10 minutes...", and we've all had days where we wanted to play but maintenance was preventing it, or the servers were overpopulated.

These are acceptable shortcomings because WoW is inherently an online experience. There's no way I would want all of this crap added to my RPGs and such.

Hell I remember the days of TBC when the sunwell patch came down. Maintenence was supposed to end at 2:00 PM PST. Don't think I had a chance to play the game until around 5PM the next day

That kind of shit was pretty unacceptable even within the context of an online game. For my entire console? Fuck that.

 

[dominuece]

I've been following

Spoiler

lurking

this thread since 5 a.m. EST and just wanted to chime in and say this thread has been an absolute joy.
Thought provoking.
Funny.
Legendary.

Even friends who don't read GAF have been following this thread religiously. Bravo.

 

[Yawnier]

FGC events would all go PS4-only without hesitation if the 720 requires an internet connection just to start up. Fighting game tournies are open tournaments that draw hundreds (or thousands in the case of Evo) entrants and tournament matches are played on dozens of consoles at a time. Having to ensure that dozens of consoles have reliable connections to hotel internet? Logistical fucking nightmare.

If both the PS4 and 720 were to have the same persistent internet requirement, the FGC would be forced to go exclusively PC across the board, and games that aren't released on the PC would be excluded.

I think that most big fighting game tourneys now use PS3s anyways (such as EVO) for pretty much all games with the obvious exception of certain titles like Smash Bros.

So, I wouldn't be surprised to see the FGC mostly rally behind the PS4 for the next years once it launches, but who knows.

 

[Jomjom]

Is there any conceivable way at this point MS could still pull-off an Always On announcement without looking like tools?

Yes easily give a couple of compelling reasons for the always online (read: some awesome feature in Halo, CoD, and Gears) and gamers will buy the console in droves regardless.

I think that most big fighting game tourneys now use PS3s now anyways (such as EVO) for pretty much all games with the obvious exception of certain titles like Smash Bros.

So, I wouldn't be surprised to see the FGC mostly rally behind the PS4 for the next years once it launches, but who knows.

Again this is only true at events that Sony sponsors. Ones that they don't sponsor are usually run on 360s.

 

[Slavik81]

if ISPs didn't collude and decide to NEVER upgrade their network, then maybe we could have always online?

No, because ISP infrastructure is only a tiny piece of the system required for an always online product.

 

[Beer Monkey]

I want to make the distinction between a game being always online and a system being always online.

First, I think it's important to acknowledge that some mechanics and game designs can only be achieved through an always online system, MMOs being one example of that. But this is for individual games, and not for every game.

The chief problem is this: an "offline" system can have always online games, while an always online system cannot have "offline" games. An "offline" system, in other words, can do both on a per-game basis.

So even if we acknowledge that some mechanics are only possible with an always online game, that does not require an always online system.

I keep calling it the console "online-only". Even "always online" doesn't really mean anything. Online-only means that if you aren't online, you aren't playing.

 

[thumb]

Is there any conceivable way at this point MS could still pull-off an Always On announcement without looking like tools?

Here's one way: They never come out and say it directly during the reveal, and provide only ambiguous answers to press. This way the "always online" requirement remains speculation for as long as possible.

 

[DigitalOp]

jtb:

palette swap:

reiko:

More coming

I love you all, Thank you valkillmore

 

[semiconscious]

Does it make any rational sense to break a game when your Internet goes down?...

if you're obsessed with drm, or data harvesting, yes, it does. it's perceived as 'collateral damage'...

 

[MightyHealthy]

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=48008184&postcount=49

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=48010522&postcount=124

Oh, that's rich. Thanks for the links!

He totally owes you ten bucks.

Maybe he's trying to Shane Bettenhausen his way into a Microsoft PR gig, then he will pay.

 

[Raitosaito]

And on the flip side, you have Windows 8.

As much as I dislike windows 8 I think it's more due to the public moving away from desktop OS's and more mobile OS's like Android and iOS. Tablet sales reflect this.

 

[MYeager]

Is there any conceivable way at this point MS could still pull-off an Always On announcement without looking like tools?

Not really because they would be announcing to countries where they sell the Xbox and Live isn't available that they're no longer selling to them anymore. That would come of as a dick move, but then again I don't believe that they're going to announce any such thing in the first place.

 

[itsgreen]

Well, The PR proves one thing.


Microsoft sees this issue. They aren't ignoring it. It's right in there face. They are either:

A) Banging their heads on the board table in anger

B) Discussing what changes or what features to add to make the package look more enticing despite what it truly is

C) Actively abandoning ship and removing their online requirement from the system, So come time to reveal, It will look like we made all this up in our wild imaginations...


The answer is either B or C + A
Lol

"We have developed a great console that is woven into your online life. This console breaths the internet. We analyzed everything and came to the conclusion that we could offer a much richer experience if we could build on there being an internet connection. The internet connection is fundamental to the great experiences Xbox 720 delivers."

 

[rbenchley]

this guy has to be saying this dumb shit to get his name out there, ala Pachter. become a celebrity for being a PR shill/corporate whiteknight or some shit.

Not an apologist for Gies as he came off as a huge ass during the SimCity mess, but those posts are a bit out of context. Prior tweets that he made showed distaste over the rumors/news of the always online nature of the new Xbox and he urged people to make calm, reasoned arguments as to why this is such a bad idea.

I think he's trying to make devil's advocate arguments (and exclude GAF because he hates us). His problem is that his credibility is pretty low in the gaming community right now, so any tweets like the ones referenced above are going to invite trouble.

 

[TheJollyCorner]

D) Release a console with always online required

#dealwithit

 

[jtb]

Is there any conceivable way at this point MS could still pull-off an Always On announcement without looking like tools?

If there are legitimate benefits to always-online (and I'm not talking PR-speak for DRM or killing off used games, but something that actually provides something for the consumer), then they can at least get some spin on it and let the consumers decide. Right now, I can't really think of any benefits... but it's not my job to think of that shit.

 

[Septimius]

if ISPs didn't collude and decide to NEVER upgrade their network, then maybe we could have always online?

In the end, it's the fact that you will never own your nextbox, since the day the servers are down, it'll be an effective waste of plastic, silicone and metals, is really the worst one. It's completely arbitrary and not OK. I was heart-broken when Matrix Online was taken down, and I can't imagine the day one of my nextgen actual favourite is just 'taken down'. Imagine not being able to play Mass Effect in 30 years. Or not being able to play Monster Hunter in 10 years. Or not being able to play something on launch-day because the servers just die.

There's no good reason to include this, and it's not OK for them to do it. They should make incentives to not buying used games, not dick-slapping people like me that never buy used games.

 

[Htown]

Not an apologist for Gies as he came off as a huge ass during the SimCity mess, but those posts are a bit out of context. Prior tweets that he made showed distaste over the rumors/news of the always online nature of the new Xbox and he urged people to make calm, reasoned arguments as to why this is such a bad idea.

I think he's trying to make devil's advocate arguments (and exclude GAF because he hates us). His problem is that his credibility is pretty low in the gaming community right now, so any tweets like the ones referenced above are going to invite trouble.

That's the thing.

You can't pretend to be reasonable and then reject reason because you dislike the source.

 

[Mascot]

Durango Division at Redmond are either laughing their asses off at this thread or shitting bricks into a bucket. I wish I knew which.

 

[StrongArmSteady]

Not an apologist for Gies as he came off as a huge ass during the SimCity mess, but those posts are a bit out of context. Prior tweets that he made showed distaste over the rumors/news of the always online nature of the new Xbox and he urged people to make calm, reasoned arguments as to why this is such a bad idea.

I think he's trying to make devil's advocate arguments (and exclude GAF because he hates us). His problem is that his credibility is pretty low in the gaming community right now, so any tweets like the ones referenced above are going to invite trouble.

yep, he's no garnett lee thats for sure.

 

[Septimius]

Not an apologist for Gies as he came off as a huge ass during the SimCity mess, but those posts are a bit out of context. Prior tweets that he made showed distaste over the rumors/news of the always online nature of the new Xbox and he urged people to make calm, reasoned arguments as to why this is such a bad idea.

I think he's trying to make devil's advocate arguments (and exclude GAF because he hates us). His problem is that his credibility is pretty low in the gaming community right now, so any tweets like the ones referenced above are going to invite trouble.

As to his comments on "do you really think shouting on GAF is gonna do something?" - then yes. Yes I think it will. Look at this thread. 150 pages in no time. This is too much noise for MS to ignore.

 

[Nokterian]

Gies went in to protecting his account! Hahahaha oh and didn't value my opinion on twitter.

 

[MYeager]

Durango Division at Redmond are either laughing their asses off at this thread or shitting bricks into a bucket. I wish I knew which.

Both, the laughter helps with the bowel movement.

 

[Ouren]

From now on, I shall use the term "orthian" to describe regressive anti-consumer practices.

 

[StrongArmSteady]

Gies went in to protecting his account! Hahahaha oh and didn't value my opinion on twitter.

He blocked you mate, he tends to do that when he's at the arse end of an argument

 

[RustyNails]

Durango Division at Redmond are either laughing their asses off at this thread or shitting bricks into a bucket. I wish I knew which.

Probably both. Laughing at the Bane gif then shitting bricks in a bucket.

 

[ThisWreckage]

They already killed Xbox Live for the original Xbox so... there's (somewhat) of a precedent for this. This isn't a justification for it, but still.

Yes, but one could still play their original Xbox. The servers were cut off, but the games could still be played.

If this console is truly online I expect them to throw as much random bullshit at the audience/viewer to detract from it. If you thought that the Cirque de Soleil raincoat nonsense and the Usher performance were dross just you wait.

 

[Can Crusher]

It's even worse when you realize that this always online bs has a lot to do with MS wanting to drive up the value of their ad space. Just like Facebook, but really bad because you pay for the damn thing, and you pay to play games.

 

[Animator]

Who the hell is Arthur Gies?