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Microsoft Studios (& Partners) Current and Future Landscape
- Thread starter Banjo-Kazooie
- Start date
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Deleted member 471617
Unconfirmed Member
Wait a minute.....can State of Decay 2 be played solo off-line like the original game or no?
Just noticed this in the bio for Adam Isgreen's twitter:
Curious as to what the bolded could be referring to
He's had that same line for at least 2 years now, maybe more.
I really can't see why a meaty single player game cannot be built alongside a service model ie a multiplayer mode. Its been done before many times. See Mass Effect 3.
PS2 dominated for many reasons, and least of those was the first party lineup. The industry is dramatically different from what it was like in the PS2 days, so to try and draw parallels is foolish. If first party exclusives were the driving force for a consoles success the PS4 would have had an incredibly slow start to this generation. It sounds to me like you're the one forgetting what happened in the past.
wapplew
Member
Because so called "bullshit service model" making all the money.
GTAV on top of every chart thanks to GTA Online, Ark and all the similar "bullshit service game" making bank on console, zero buzz on GAF.
Sea of Theves, SoD2 are going after very popular trend, might not be your cup of tea but quite possibly someone else killer apps.
Papacheeks
Banned
Thing is GTA online's popularity happened organically. SOD is being developed as service model game first and foremost.
captainraincoat
Banned
Sorry to cut down your comments but part of what makes xbox popular us those service type games.
Ms dont need to copy sony
Ms are like acdc....they release the same albulm but the rifts/singing are just shuffled around...people love them and continue to buy the albulm..you know what you are getting
Sony are like metallica through the load/reload years...released 2 albulms and a heap of cover songs...of these a couple of great songs but you dont put the cd back in the cd player again ever and you long for the kill em all days (ps2)
State of Decay? Or Sea of Thieves?
Anyway, both look really cool. State of Decay 2 is a sure bet as far as sale goes. Sea of Thieves could turn out huge, could be a flop, but it looks like a great game.
I mean, i think Phil Spencer does get it, but he can't make the higher ups get it too. Even with the games as service models they fail because they don't put the investment needed to make that kind of game work. It's like someone said 'MAKE EVERYTHING LIKE MINECRAFT' but didn't give them the budget to make the necessary infrastructure for those kind of games work in the first place.
It's bizarre.
Also, as far as "tried", when, exactly? In the Peter Moore era maybe, but not in the Don Mattrick one
The PS4 and its initial success is attributed mainly to Microsoft's own screw up but they built on that success by delivering top notch exclusives that are single player focused. 3rd parties go to both Xbox and PS4, but what really separates PS from Xbox are its exclusives, it caters to all genres, that's why it's more of a global brand whereas Xbox is associated mainly with North America/England.
element
Member
Yes.
I think after Fable Legend, Project Spark and a handful of other disastrous experiments, MS is being a little less forceful on the Game as a Service push.
I think MS don't really have too much to worry about with regards to games at the end of this year, though a headlining standout title would be nice. But what I would like to see at E3 is announcements of titles beyond 2017 and exciting titles too. It feels as though they don't have much planned apart from the fact that Halo 6 and Forza Horizon 4 will be there, which just shows the issue they have. Their lineup is too predictable.
Anyway, they seem to be heading in the right direction, at least with regards to Scorpio and some of their recent improvements to software and services of their platform. With E3, I hope they will show they have the same commitment to games, specifically brand new first/second party games that brings excitement again.
Anyway, they seem to be heading in the right direction, at least with regards to Scorpio and some of their recent improvements to software and services of their platform. With E3, I hope they will show they have the same commitment to games, specifically brand new first/second party games that brings excitement again.
Real_Madrid
Member
I agree, but Xbox has always been a multiplayer first brand, while Sony always had good SP games. Adding to that it seems that good first party SP games don't tend to do well on Xbox, Sunset Overdrive for example would have exploded on PS4 imo.
As someone who is a SP-gamer, Xbox doesn't offer me much and I fear that they at Microsoft underestimate how big the SP-market it. Yes, games as a service, streaming, e-sports, ... is huge and gets bigger every year, but it's a difficult market to get into. You have the cheap/F2P survival games on PC and then on the other side of the spectrum you have the huge really expensive MP shooters like COD, Battlefront, Destiny, ... They cannot compete with a 500 million investment Activation did for Destiny.
The casual gaming market is also a group that easily forgotten, especially if you only read hardcore gaming websites or forums like Neogaf.
(Let alone focusing more on Europe.)
Haven't we been saying this for years?
I can see Microsoft doing a Sony announcing a load of titles that have barely begun production to get the fan boys wild.
Real_Madrid
Member
Isn't that normal for a console-manufacturer? People want to know if they're going to get good exclusive games for it. That's why Microsoft announced Halo and Sony Uncharted at the beginning of this gen.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
I don't think you can call that "doing a Sony" when Microsoft has been just as guilty of doing it this gen. We're still waiting on Crackdown and Below. The Phantom Dust reboot never really existed, nor did Shangheist, and they've cancelled a few announced games too.
If you think about it, it's a bit like Nintendo's mobile quandary. You've got two games - Pokemon Go and Mario Run. It's blatantly obvious that Mario Run is the better game, where Go is one of those typical mobile time/wallet vampires. However, Go is where the money is.
This is what Microsoft is looking at - do they make a game which is a critical single player darling and a solid earner, or do they go for the games as a service route and see something that a) earns massively over a product lifestyle and consistently, b) stays out of the second hand ecosystem.
On paper, it makes sense. However I think there are knock on benefits of providing these more unique single player experiences. It's fair to say that Sony's exclusives titles, outside of a mere handful, didn't set the world on fire over the PS3 gen. However, when you look at the system and how well they are perceived to look after it, it looks really promising - a constant stream of titles. You look at Microsoft against Sony and you think "well one makes games and the other doesn't", and that can really drive console ecosystem decisions.
Perhaps it would have been better for Microsoft to pump out some "ok" titles rather than cancel them outright (talking outside of hardware launches, as they have that down - Kinect and XB1 launched well, but it all tailed off around that). Platform owners prefer a bit of love rather than holding on for the all or nothing approach. It's this sort of thing that constantly attract "Microsoft makes no games" comments.
This is what Microsoft is looking at - do they make a game which is a critical single player darling and a solid earner, or do they go for the games as a service route and see something that a) earns massively over a product lifestyle and consistently, b) stays out of the second hand ecosystem.
On paper, it makes sense. However I think there are knock on benefits of providing these more unique single player experiences. It's fair to say that Sony's exclusives titles, outside of a mere handful, didn't set the world on fire over the PS3 gen. However, when you look at the system and how well they are perceived to look after it, it looks really promising - a constant stream of titles. You look at Microsoft against Sony and you think "well one makes games and the other doesn't", and that can really drive console ecosystem decisions.
Perhaps it would have been better for Microsoft to pump out some "ok" titles rather than cancel them outright (talking outside of hardware launches, as they have that down - Kinect and XB1 launched well, but it all tailed off around that). Platform owners prefer a bit of love rather than holding on for the all or nothing approach. It's this sort of thing that constantly attract "Microsoft makes no games" comments.
MS needs to bring Itagaki back and give him the Vip treatment he deserves. Ninja Gaiden and Dead or Alive are the defining Xbox experiences and the systems still hold the best iteration of those games (including beach volleyball). If any developer with the time and budget, emphasis on budget can create a new 3D Fighter or frantic action game it's him.
Imagine stage gone to black after Scorpio console reveal, out comes Itagaki with a trailer of his new action game and larger than life attitude. Unprecedented 3 game partnership with Valhala games. Goddamn!
Imagine stage gone to black after Scorpio console reveal, out comes Itagaki with a trailer of his new action game and larger than life attitude. Unprecedented 3 game partnership with Valhala games. Goddamn!
Steverulez
Member
Microsoft won't do it that way because they know like 75% of them will get cancelled when they decide to shut another studio/get bored of a project taking longer than 2 years.
They will probably have another shitty e3 after last years awful show for announcements, and maybe next year they'll announce something new that won't get cancelled.
At least we might get Ori 2 this year, oh and more Halo and Forza 😒
MS is already getting slaughtered (2:1 worldwide) sooooo the best that they can do is try to appease their fans. I don't think they are trying to focus on marketshare, but focus on profitability of the audience (which is still huge) that they do have. To me, they need to fix the issues surrounding the Windows Store (which really stems from non-clean installs of Windows 10) to get sales from the PC market, get 3rd parties to do more AAA XPA games, make sure that the titles this year that highlight Scorpio are great (not just good), so Crackdown 3 + SoT + SoD gotta do numbers, and get Arena popular amongst competitive gaming.
Next year is gonna be Halo 6 + FH4, but that's when they really need to reveal more new IP. This year, I don't think they will.
gaming_noob
Member
Oh, they have something huge alright. Marketing loopholes.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
They seem to have a good lineup this year to complement the Scorpio launch, for my tastes anyway.
Forza 7 - technical showcase and great game as usual
Crackdown - 'Wow factor' game with all the explosions and shit, and an old fan favourite
SOD - Quality 'alternate' game
SOT - Another alternate game, contrary to the idea that they only make shooters. May not release this year though?
Then it seems Ori 2 is happening, probably their best new IP in a long time. Cuphead and Below must be on the way. Bound to be at least one or two surprises too. Maybe bringing back other OG Xbox games too along with Phantom Dust.
If they smash the system and services stuff out the park and it looks like a solid year to me. It's 2018 onward where they NEED to introduce something(s) new and big.
I am excite, mainly for Crackdown. Which I would much rather have than them 'needing' to make a HZD game thank you very much!
Forza 7 - technical showcase and great game as usual
Crackdown - 'Wow factor' game with all the explosions and shit, and an old fan favourite
SOD - Quality 'alternate' game
SOT - Another alternate game, contrary to the idea that they only make shooters. May not release this year though?
Then it seems Ori 2 is happening, probably their best new IP in a long time. Cuphead and Below must be on the way. Bound to be at least one or two surprises too. Maybe bringing back other OG Xbox games too along with Phantom Dust.
If they smash the system and services stuff out the park and it looks like a solid year to me. It's 2018 onward where they NEED to introduce something(s) new and big.
I am excite, mainly for Crackdown. Which I would much rather have than them 'needing' to make a HZD game thank you very much!
Yep. That means they can't show any of those games running on Scorpio at E3. I'm thinking at this point all we are gonna see running on Scorpio at E3 will be Forza 7, Crackdown 3, SoD2 and maybe Ass Creed. What happened to Microsoft and the marketing deals? Their one year timed exclusive deals like RotTR and Dead Rising 4 have not really worked out either for them. They really need to invest in a couple more internal studios so they can get more content out regularly.
IncognitoPanda
Member
State of Decay? Or Sea of Thieves?
Anyway, both look really cool. State of Decay 2 is a sure bet as far as sale goes. Sea of Thieves could turn out huge, could be a flop, but it looks like a great game.
I mean, i think Phil Spencer does get it, but he can't make the higher ups get it too. Even with the games as service models they fail because they don't put the investment needed to make that kind of game work. It's like someone said 'MAKE EVERYTHING LIKE MINECRAFT' but didn't give them the budget to make the necessary infrastructure for those kind of games work in the first place.
It's bizarre.
Also, as far as "tried", when, exactly? In the Peter Moore era maybe, but not in the Don Mattrick one
Project Spark, Quantum break, Sunset overdrive, Recore; all new IP that failed to live up and sell well, making new entries less likely. Not to mention all the cancelled games, ie Scalebound, Legends, Project Knoxvill, PD remake etc.
MS has actually started quite a few new IPs, but apart from Ori, not much has impressed at all. But they have had several tries this gen.
RedSparrows
Member
The thing I dislike about all this chat is not what it says, but what it implies about how we, as 'hardcore gamers' view gaming. I LOVED ReCore, but to GAF as a whole ReCore is a failure. So much colour and fun and excitement and yes, variety, uniqueness and quality (what this discussion is supposedly orientated around, ultimately, using Sony's output as the benchmark) is missed. I mean, how many times do we have to hear 'MS's lineup is crap compared to Sony's!' before we a) get the message, and b) remember that there are games coming, and they deserve just as much attention as any other games.
I wish there was a place to talk about games as games without having to catch a sniff of 'obsess over new IP omg', or 'this announced but unreleased game is a shibboleth' (seriously, how many times do we have to have lists before we realise half the games won't be as good as you hope, some won't even appear, and not everyone is as excited for X as you are, and vice versa...).
I know this is TOTALLY the wrong thread to post this in (;D, sorry), but it gets my goat. Anyone know of the forum I need?
I wish there was a place to talk about games as games without having to catch a sniff of 'obsess over new IP omg', or 'this announced but unreleased game is a shibboleth' (seriously, how many times do we have to have lists before we realise half the games won't be as good as you hope, some won't even appear, and not everyone is as excited for X as you are, and vice versa...).
I know this is TOTALLY the wrong thread to post this in (;D, sorry), but it gets my goat. Anyone know of the forum I need?
Liabe Brave
Member
He's head of Xbox. There are probably only two people between him and the board: the director of More Personal Computing (the division Xbox is in), and the CEO.
So what will they release during the first half of 2018, before next E3? Nothing? Or will some of the games we know about be delayed out of this year and spread even thinner? Neither of those approaches sounds great for keeping focus on the newly-released Scorpio.
I fully expect Microsoft to announce new partner projects this E3.
Just stay in the official threads for the games you like, those are much more focused. If you come into a general thread about all games now and future on a platform, you'll see diversity of opinion. Just because some people don't like Recore as much as you do doesn't make them idiots or assholes.I know this is TOTALLY the wrong thread to post this in (;D, sorry), but it gets my goat. Anyone know of the forum I need?
Well I'm not saying that they need to launch scorpio with new huge games this year, but at least I hope they are going to show them at this E3, even if they are going to be released in 2018/19. I want to see something new and exciting for this console.
Indeed. The challenge for Microsoft isn't 2017 - should SoD/SoT/C3/FM7 do release this year - but 2017. If Microsoft doesn't go beyond what 's expected of them at E3 (Halo 6/Forza 7/Ori 2 + updates on what's already announced), 2018 will be suite a sludge for Xbox.
It could severly undermine any momentum they manage to build up with Scorpio. Especially if the competition continues on its current track.
iamsirjoshua
Member
They already announced the marketing deal for Shadow of War, which I think was the first third-party game to officially announce Scorpio compatibility. While not quite on the same level as CoD, Destiny, and Battlefront in terms of sales impact, it really does look like a fantastic title that will shine on the Scorpio. I think AssCreed is probably a solid bet too. While those have traditionally had marketing deals with Sony, so much of PlayStation's third-party budget is tied up elsewhere this year that it definitely seems plausible for Ubi to head to Microsoft, which they've done before for titles like Unity.
Ya they can't show those games, but they can still SAY they will be the best place to play. Kind of like how MS can advertise Sony co-marketed EA games as "play so and so first on xbox with ea access".
I forsee MS having marketing deals on Shadow of War (which we know already), Assassin's Creed and probably Wolfenstein which I feel like will be this year. Beyond that who knows.
Papacheeks
Banned
State of Decay? Or Sea of Thieves?
Anyway, both look really cool. State of Decay 2 is a sure bet as far as sale goes. Sea of Thieves could turn out huge, could be a flop, but it looks like a great game.
I mean, i think Phil Spencer does get it, but he can't make the higher ups get it too. Even with the games as service models they fail because they don't put the investment needed to make that kind of game work. It's like someone said 'MAKE EVERYTHING LIKE MINECRAFT' but didn't give them the budget to make the necessary infrastructure for those kind of games work in the first place.
It's bizarre.
Also, as far as "tried", when, exactly? In the Peter Moore era maybe, but not in the Don Mattrick one
I meant sea of thieves sorry.
SEGAvangelist
Gold Member
Turtle Rock does seem possible. Their job listings show AAA first person shooter, UE4, new IP, and co-op, so it certainly seems like the kind of game MS wants for Xbox.
I can see them using Fallout 4 in a VR section too.
Perfect World is publishing their next game.
SEGAvangelist
Gold Member
Ew... I don't love that for sure.
Papacheeks
Banned
YOU obviously never had an original Xbox. Xbox use to be known for single player games with couch co-op.
Xbox live didn't really take off until Halo 2, and even then they still had great single player games up to the end of xbox's life. Then they actually started out in the early days of 360 with a lot of single player focused games with "optional" multiplayer.
Now they make games soley with multiplayer in mind to create a service type game. WHy the fuck would you take a developer with no experience or knowledge in F2P style games, Have them turn a franchise known for it's great single player campaigns and make them make a service game?
Makes no sense only sense it makes is the higher ups wanted it and don't even understand what the xbox brand means anymore. They just want reoccurring revenue at any cost doesn't matter to them how they get it.
That's the difference between Nintendo, Sony, Sega and Xbox. The other three knew their heritage where they came from and what gaming means as a medium.
Microsoft only see's it as an added revenue stream only and not a creative outlet for entertainment that in the long run will make them money.
People always bitch why Disney is doing so well, wep they understand their audience and give them what they want(minus remakes of classic disney films).
It sickens, and saddens the shit out of me to see a division in such a state and direction that is of the opposite of what people want.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Firstly, Sega is... not the best example of your point here. Looks at Sonic.
Second, I'mma need a source on the "what the people want" stuff. You can't attribute Xbox's failings this gen solely to their first party output in this or the last part of the previous gen, there were a lot of factors at play. Games as a service might not be what you, me, GAF, or even the general hardcore community wants, but "people" eat them up.
Agreed that Legends was thoroughly mismanaged. Was really turning out well before they canned it, though :/
Papacheeks
Banned
I was talking in terms of platform with sega. Not where they are currently now as in they dont make hardware anymore.
Go look at the NPD threads for halo 5, gears 4. Go look at IGN's coverage of Fable LEgends which did not demo well among people in and out of the alpha/beta.
Go look at the mediocre scores for QB, recore and the reception around it outside of Gaf. Go look at all the microtransactions now in Halo 5, Gears 4 among other titles to prove their ideology on games as a service.
It's talked to death on here, and there are ton's of articles out there by gameindustry.biz that talk about the lack of first party and overall excitement for xbox.
You want me to prove a narrative that is shared on gaf, and many other publications and personality sites like Giantbomb who have been in the industry for a very long time.
If there console was the place to be in terms of diverse games and the system was promoted as such instead of a forza, halo gears machine, the outlook and narrative would be much different.
If the perception on how people perceive the library and xbox brand were different there wouldn't be as big of a disparity between consoles.
The xbox division has an issue mainly their first party outlook but secondly how the company treats and views the division. If they had the same sentiment company wise as Sony did for the Playstation there would have been more studios being opened, bought, more deals being made for PC developers on xbox during the 360 days. If they cared about curating great creative studios they would not have let bungie go they would have let them make destiny. They would let 343 make games outside of halo, they wouldn't come to Black tusk and ask them what they would rather make. They would let them make it, and when it doesn't meet vertical slice, or milestep goals or just isn't playable then they shut down the project and have them make a franchise game.
It's not what he wants so nobody wants it
I just want good games, people bitch about wanting Rare make something new they do and they still bitch. Rare is making a good looking game and one that fits in the market. If you like Rare you should want SoT to be successful.Halo 5 as a service is what Halo fans want, Gears 4 does handle it a crappy way I'll give you that.
Poodlestrike
Banned
I wasn't questioning the narrative, I was questioning the data. You say people don't want them, I say that the best-selling and most-played games this gen are service games. And, like I said, there's a lot of factors in Xbox and Xbox exclusives' poor performance this gen.
You're also making a bunch of assumptions about how the first party studios are managed.
It's not what he wants so nobody wants it
Agreed.
Also it's guuuuud.
IncognitoPanda
Member
I feel MS is too big for Xbox's best. Some creative freedom is a must in the console space as it has been going so far. That is what gamers respond to. Even those who don't follow any gaming news and only play very casually are likely to be influenced by those who know gaming.
Horizon Zero Dawn is a bit of a funky concept, but I'm sure the hype from core gamers resonated with many casuals.
Horizon Zero Dawn is a bit of a funky concept, but I'm sure the hype from core gamers resonated with many casuals.
Papacheeks
Banned
It's not what he wants so nobody wants it
Halo 5 as a service is what Halo fans want, Gears 4 does handle it a crappy way I'll give you that.
Sure that's why it didn't meet sales expectations. And outside of playing with a group of people what can you do in seas of thieves?
Is there a great single player campaign set in a pirate world? It's a social online game that no-one asked for.
RARE is super talented, and more known for their single player games with optional co-op multiplayer.
The games as a service initiative brought on by Phil Harrison and the likes is whats killing xbox's identity. Same with the beginning launch of xbox with TV.
Online is a asset to xbox but isn't the main reason people bought into their franchises. Gears multiplayer became more popular after the first game. It still was a great single/co-op experience. Same goes for Halo, it's known for both it's multiplayer and it's rich campaign that can be played solo, on the couch with a friend or online.
All those original Xbox games I brought up were more known for their single player campaigns than their optional multiplayer. GTA V online, minecraft, are the games Microsoft is trying to emulate content wise with these types of games. Instead of trying to let something like GTA V online happen organically like it did. GTA V got it's praise in teh beginning with it's campaign alone well before the multiplayer came out and even then it took it a while to even catch on. They sold millions of copies based on the singole player campaign/sandbox alone.
Here's food for thought, go look up sea of thieves on youtube the trailer from last year has just over 1 million views, the gameplay video has over 400,000.
Then go look at videos from other games and the difference is staggering. The excitement for that game is not huge. So again who asked for this?
When you say service games do you mean Destiny which is a MMO shooter? Do you mean GTA V which didn't get popular for it's online till after it came out and sold a shit ton on it's campaign alone?
What service games are you referring too? PC games that are totally different in their demographic and pay models?
TheUnsunghero26
Member
There are a number of reasons why Halo 5's launch was down. I don't think service based multiplayer was one of them.
CalamityPixel
Member
Hey, pssssst. MS, Phil my boy. I know you're reading. Lend me the Conker IP, I can make something that suits the both of us. You get to try out a new selling format while winning fans back.
Give me a call bby <3
Give me a call bby <3
If anything, Halo 5's service based multiplayer has been the only reason it's still lasting this long with good engagement. Take req packs and the then monthly new content drops out of the game and it would've died By now