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Microsoft: We Could Have Used Variable Clocks for Xbox Series X, But We’re Not Interested in TFLOPS Numbers

Nikana

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Great comment from under a youtube video on the subject;

Paulo Lameiras2 hours ago
'MS have put themselves in a tough situation. Series X main argument against PS5 is the teraflops advantage, but with a Series S also available, they have to convince people that teraflops may not be that important. They basically will have to kill their best argument to make both systems equally worth buying.'
Their advertising to the mass won't have a word about teraflops. It will be based on the most powerful console ever and something along the lines of "insane power for the price."

They don't have to kill their best argument in any fashion. The mass will see the most powerful and a budget option.
 
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Thanks for this. This is what I was trying to say. Developers have the ability to program to set power profiles so get an understanding of what the console is doing and how the game will react. So it's not like they'll have no idea how things will play out when the variable frequencies occur when the game releases.
Yeah I think the idea is like this:

- Run some code for a scene, notice that the CPU is dropping 10% in that scene
- You want to be able to isolate just that CPU code and test it, but if you run JUST THAT CODE the system will naturally run it at 100% clocks because there's nothing else going on
- So you lock the clock at -10% to simulate the real world scenario for this code, so you can test it's performance more accurately

On PCs games don't run maxed out all the time, so this isn't unheard of. Like you said (and Cerny of course) it's just more predictable now. Which is a good thing.
Yeah but for whatever reason historically console games have been written to expect locked processors. It's interesting to me and I've never fully researched why that has caused problems for things like emulators or backwards compatibility, but I think it has to do with basing things on the exact timing they can expect from code running consistently. On PS5 your code won't necessarily run consistently (any given piece of code) because that code runs at different times as part of different workloads. But I have trouble believing that is a huge deal, most of computing involves such unknowns.
 
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sonomamashine

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Great comment from under a youtube video on the subject;

Paulo Lameiras2 hours ago
'MS have put themselves in a tough situation. Series X main argument against PS5 is the teraflops advantage, but with a Series S also available, they have to convince people that teraflops may not be that important. They basically will have to kill their best argument to make both systems equally worth buying.'
Paulo should know that the Series S is for 1080p/1440p players that don't have to spend that much to get a next gen console, MS argument still stands "the most powerful console" 4k is demanding, any angle you see it MS next gen consoles are both best bank for the buck (price per perf)
 

Tulipanzo

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Great comment from under a youtube video on the subject;

Paulo Lameiras2 hours ago
'MS have put themselves in a tough situation. Series X main argument against PS5 is the teraflops advantage, but with a Series S also available, they have to convince people that teraflops may not be that important. They basically will have to kill their best argument to make both systems equally worth buying.'
I think this'll make the Lockhart a bit confusing, as it is not only weaker, but will have far less marketing time for itself.
Still, maybe a bit off-topic.


Their advertising to the mass won't have a world about teraflops. It will be based on the most powerful console ever and something along the lines of "insane power for the price."

They don't have to kill their best argument in any fashion. The mass will see the most powerful and a budget option.
Their mass advertising has already mentioned TFs frequently. 12TF was the first bulletpoint to accompany all their recent announcements.
I just checked my country Gamestop's page and "12 TERAFRLOPS[sic.] OF POWER" is right at the top of the page.

It's fair to say some people may want the console with the far lower number to be much cheaper than it realistically can be.
 
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mckmas8808

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Great comment from under a youtube video on the subject;

Paulo Lameiras2 hours ago
'MS have put themselves in a tough situation. Series X main argument against PS5 is the teraflops advantage, but with a Series S also available, they have to convince people that teraflops may not be that important. They basically will have to kill their best argument to make both systems equally worth buying.'
Exactly THIS!

Paulo should know that the Series S is for 1080p/1440p players that don't have to spend that much to get a next gen console, MS argument still stands "the most powerful console" 4k is demanding, any angle you see it MS next gen consoles are both best bank for the buck (price per perf)
But that's why they are killing their own "best" argument with the "most powerful console" message. It doesn't matter if you're the most powerful if a 4TF console can play the same games.
 

cormack12

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1) That's a literal Cerny quote about how they manage thermals; he openly talked about it in his Road to PS5 video as well
2) I'm not "turding"[?] all over anything; I specifically said XBox's approach in not inferior; it's the approach used by every single other console, and I got an OG X1, so why would I be bothered
3) If anything, Jason here is clearly "turding" on the Sony approach with unsubstantiated and largely incorrect assumptions

In this interview, Jason said

I don't get what I'm making up; he's openly suggesting that "variable clocks" (what the PS5 does) make it harder to optimize games, do not deliver consistent performance, and are used to "boast higher TFs". That's in the OP...

He literally said "we could have done this", which is very misleading. Had MS put in extra components and managed the cooling properly then yes, but the XSX as it exist right now can't do it.
Unless XSX manages thermals in a completely different way, then no "model SOC" means no clear info on power draw, which means certain consoles could get too hot and prevent variable clocks from working (which is what happens on phones and PCs). Again, the exact same issue Cerny talked about in the quote I posted...

You're misunderstanding. There is a leap between what Cerny is saying and the interviews and what you are framing it as. A leap you've made but cannot show as I'm asking - you can only show the general points and tie them together. They are not quotes what you are saying and they are your insertions based on an interview. They are also not directly supported by the articles youve provided. It would be like taking a general quote about rear wheel drive, then extrapolating a point to specifically aim at BMW. It's disingenuous and if you expect to be taken seriously, you should stop it.

I have no side, but I'm sick and fed up of people doing this in these threads. I support evidence and facts that are actually stated as such, and when people make leaps they clearly state why and when they're making those leaps. Not hide behind appeal to authorities that are incorrect. And this goes for 'both sides' as boogie would say. Whether it's downclocking, SSD speeds etc.
 

Dnice1

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This is by far the craziest statement made by Xbox this year for all the right and wrong reasons.

I personally don't think they should have said this at all, but I understand where they're coming from.
I don't think it was a statement. He was answering a question in an interview. Same as Phil when he was asked what he thought about the PS5 event. He answered the question. Yet because they are being honest and some folks don't like the answer its an issue.
 

Nikana

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I think this'll make the Lockhart a bit confusing, as it is not only weaker, but will have far less marketing time for itself.
Still, maybe a bit off-topic.



Their mass advertising has already mentioned TFs frequently. 12TF was the first bulletpoint to accompany all their recent announcements.
I just checked my country Gamestop's page and "12 TERAFRLOPS[sic.] OF POWER" is right at the top of the page.

It's fair to say some people may want the console with the far lower number to be much cheaper than it realistically can be.
A product page isn't an advertisement. Again the mass market. Their ads haven't started.

Their commercials and ads won't have 12TF of power. The one X product page on Microsoft's own site has 6TF buried under a drop down menu. None of the feel true power commercials focus on 6TF.

Teraflops speak to the hardcore market who pay attention to the tech industry but means nothing to the mass.
 
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People are way too sensitive to what MS says around here; did ya'll not notice the Road to PS5 presentation having little references to the XSX architecture? Both companies are hyping their differences, MS is just doing more interviews so they are asked outright about the PS5 and give more direct answers. But when Cerny talks CU counts he's doing so because XSX has more CUs.. and when Jim Ryan hypes next-gen exclusives, something they've always done, it's because for the first time their competitor isn't doing that.

MS makes a tweet referencing their BC always running at full speed (honestly something I think is true on PS5, but that's neither here nor there) a reference to the fact PS5 BC allegedly works by downclocking outside of boost mode... and MULTIPLE people on this forum called that SHAMEFUL... or "FUCKING SHAMEFUL".. and accused MS of RIDICULING Sony lol

Like get a grip people...
 

Tulipanzo

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You're misunderstanding. There is a leap between what Cerny is saying and the interviews and what you are framing it as. A leap you've made but cannot show as I'm asking - you can only show the general points and tie them together. They are not quotes what you are saying and they are your insertions based on an interview. They are also not directly supported by the articles youve provided. It would be like taking a general quote about rear wheel drive, then extrapolating a point to specifically aim at BMW. It's disingenuous and if you expect to be taken seriously, you should stop it.

I have no side, but I'm sick and fed up of people doing this in these threads. I support evidence and facts that are actually stated as such, and when people make leaps they clearly state why and when they're making those leaps. Not hide behind appeal to authorities that are incorrect. And this goes for 'both sides' as boogie would say. Whether it's downclocking, SSD speeds etc.
It's really not that far of a leap, as other people have also suggested the XSX could "just do variable clocks if they wanted".
Obviously MS could have gone back to the drawing board to do it, but Jason's comment seem to indicate they actively discarded it because it was worse.
I tried to show a far more likely reason MS might have avoided it, ie. the expenses of thermal management, which would have only been worse on a larger APU, and which Cerny has discussed in that quote, and the rest of that article

Jason's points here are actually rather fanboyish and baseless:
1) Variable clocks give inconsistent performance
2) It's harder for developers to optimize on such hw
3) They are only good to "boast" about TFs
4) They could have had them too (implication being it'd have been the easy way out, given the above)

I'm sorry you're fed up, but talking about thermal management of variable clocks, something that has been extensively discussed, it's well within the context of an interview that makes those clocks sound trivial.
 

quest

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I don't think it was a statement. He was answering a question in an interview. Same as Phil when he was asked what he thought about the PS5 event. He answered the question. Yet because they are being honest and some folks don't like the answer its an issue.
The issue is people think Sony is special and AMD offers them exclusive technology. That AMD did not offer the smart shift and variants to Microsoft also. Its like the new PS5 being rdna2.5 we just have to wait for the secret squirrels to fill us in on all the exclusive technology in the PS5 that AMD kept secret from Microsoft so Sony can drop another 8gigs of gddr5 bomb on Microsoft. The engineers at Microsoft were offered smart shift and said thanks but we are good with fixed clocks after discussion of the pros and cons simple as that.
 

Tulipanzo

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A product page isn't an advertisement. Again the mass market. Their ads haven't started.

Their commercials and ads won't have 12TF of power. The one X product page on Microsoft's own site has 6TF buried under a drop down menu. None of the feel true power commercials focus on 6TF.

Teraflops speak to the hardcore market who pay attention to the tech industry but means nothing to the mass.
If I want to buy the XSX, I literally have to look at that page. It is also in the banner ad on the same website. They are using MS's provided material there.

Still, if you go on the Series X's english product page, the first bulletpoint on Spencer's letter at the top is about 12TF of power.

It seems a very petty ill to die on, the advanced power of XSX is obviously a major point of marketing.
Whether that's been effective or not is up to debate, but you'd have to be blind to miss 12TFs.
 

Nikana

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If I want to buy the XSX, I literally have to look at that page. It is also in the banner ad on the same website. They are using MS's provided material there.

Still, if you go on the Series X's english product page, the first bulletpoint on Spencer's letter at the top is about 12TF of power.

It seems a very petty ill to die on, the advanced power of XSX is obviously a major point of marketing.
Whether that's been effective or not is up to debate, but you'd have to be blind to miss 12TFs.
The...mass...market...crowd...
 
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sonomamashine

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The issue is people think Sony is special and AMD offers them exclusive technology. That AMD did not offer the smart shift and variants to Microsoft also. Its like the new PS5 being rdna2.5 we just have to wait for the secret squirrels to fill us in on all the exclusive technology in the PS5 that AMD kept secret from Microsoft so Sony can drop another 8gigs of gddr5 bomb on Microsoft. The engineers at Microsoft were offered smart shift and said thanks but we are good with fixed clocks after discussion of the pros and cons simple as that.
Simple as that, AMD gave them the Menu, MS & Sony ordered what they wanted.
It's the same House, same tech, different approaches.
 

Tulipanzo

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The issue is people think Sony is special and AMD offers them exclusive technology. That AMD did not offer the smart shift and variants to Microsoft also. Its like the new PS5 being rdna2.5 we just have to wait for the secret squirrels to fill us in on all the exclusive technology in the PS5 that AMD kept secret from Microsoft so Sony can drop another 8gigs of gddr5 bomb on Microsoft. The engineers at Microsoft were offered smart shift and said thanks but we are good with fixed clocks after discussion of the pros and cons simple as that.
You're confused, SmartShift exists on top of Sony's approach with clocks. MS very likely could not make use of it because their clocks are capped.

What I personally take issue with in this interview, is that Jason's talking point are openly misinformed.
This isn't to shit on XSX's solution, but he clearly does not understand the competition's (he's a Program Manager, he deals with inter-department communication), and his points are a bit fanboyish.
I wish I knew Spanish to read the original, but Wccftech has a tendency to blow things out of proportion.
 

Tulipanzo

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The...mass...market...crowd...
The mass market crowd doesn't use Gamestop? Because that's like, the only retailer where I live.

You can find the same advertising in stores, 12TF really isn't that secret. Think the 32X, people might not be familiar with TFs, but they know the big number that's being pushed.
And why wouldn't MS push it? It's the highest for this exact purpose.
 
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Great comment from under a youtube video on the subject;

Paulo Lameiras2 hours ago
'MS have put themselves in a tough situation. Series X main argument against PS5 is the teraflops advantage, but with a Series S also available, they have to convince people that teraflops may not be that important. They basically will have to kill their best argument to make both systems equally worth buying.'
Hmm...I can see this person's point here. MS didn't pursue power as the ultimate goal with XSX, but they definitely did play into the TF messaging that hardcore/core gamers themselves were primarily focused on up to March. Can't blame them, since they knew it was an area they had an advantage in.

However Series S potentially being a real product due to release kind of creates a paradox in that earlier messaging. It's basically creating a "We have both the most powerful and weakest next-gen systems!" picture and that can come off as a contradiction. It's why I'm hoping if Series S is real, it has some genuine hook besides just being cheaper-priced, that will be able to entice hardcore/core gamers (as well as casuals of course) that isn't reliant on graphics or performance.

That hook needs to be something that can incentivize new gameplay experiences, kind of like the Wii did in its time. Hopefully that's something it has.
 

Nikana

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The mass market crowd doesn't use Gamestop? Because that's like, the only retailer where I live.

You can find the same advertising in stores, 12TF really isn't that secret. Think the 32X, people might not be familiar with TFs, but they know the big number that's being pushed.
And why wouldn't MS push it? It's the highest for this exact purpose.
Did I say they don't go to GameStop?

The mass market advertising hasn't started. Period.
 

Tulipanzo

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Did I say they don't go to GameStop?

The mass market advertising hasn't started. Period.
1) They openly mentioned Series X (as Scarlett) at 2 E3 (the biggest gaming show on the planet), and at the Game Awards to 7.5M people; mass marketing has long started
2) The marketing material they're already providing to retailers worldwide mentions 12TFs at the top
3) Their own product page frequently mentions 12TFs, and it's the first thing they bring up

Even if I were to admit all the talk they did about XSX somehow doesn't count as "mass market advertising", there's no basis to assume 12TFs wouldn't feature prominently in future marketing.
Again, I see no reason for them not to show 12TFs, since it's a higher number than the competition, unless you also agree it might make Lockhart advertising too confusing.
However, that still doesn't mean they will, given its prominence everywhere in their marketing.
 
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Nikana

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1) They openly mentioned Series X (as Scarlett) at 2 E3 (the biggest gaming show on the planet), and at the Game Awards to 7.5M people; mass marketing has long started
2) The marketing material they're already providing to retailers worldwide mentions 12TFs at the top
3) Their own product page frequently mentions 12TFs, and it's the first thing they bring up

Even if I were to admit all the talk they did about XSX somehow doesn't count as "mass market advertising", there's no basis to assume 12TFs wouldn't feature prominently in future marketing.
Again, I see no reason for them not to show 12TFs, since it's a higher number than the competition, unless you also agree it might make Lockhart advertising too confusing.
However, that still doesn't mean they will, given its prominence everywhere in their marketing.


E3 is not the mass market. It's targeted.

Game awards. Targeted.

GameStop, targeted retail of one market.

Xbox product page, targeted.

The basis is clear. Their Feel True Power mass marketing campaign was the campaign for the Xbox One X which was touted for months as true 4K and and 6TF of power. Not a single mention of 6TF in their advertisements.

Even the official Xbox Google advertising doesn't feature the word teraflops.






Mass marketing also does not start a year before a product launches.
 
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Tulipanzo

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E3 is not the mass market. It's targeted.

Game awards. Targeted.

GameStop, targeted retail of one market.

Xbox product page, targeted.

The basis is clear. Their Feel True Power mass marketing campaign was the campaign for the Xbox One X which was touted for months as true 4K and and 6TF of power. Not a single mention of 6TF in their advertisements.

Even the official Xbox Google advertising doesn't feature the word teraflops.






Mass marketing also does not start a year before a product launches.
Your mistake is to think Mass Market exists in some sort of parallel dimension from the rest of their marketing for some reason.
Even if their TV ads don't mention it, you literally have to go through a page or retail store with giant 12TF banners to buy your console.

Think about it, their advertising can't exist in a vacuum. The X1X was sold as a 4K, and ads for XSX would hit similar; the distinction is still all that other advertising they've done and is still there.

The point you seem to be making is that XSX is largely unknown to the masses due to no mass marketing, which is already a bit of a stretch (I've talked to non-gaming friends that know about PS5, for example), but also that no other piece of info, even the very prominent 12TF number, will make it to masses if the mass marketing won't mention it. That's most certainly not true.
All your marketing would need to run like that for that to happen (eg. PS4 Pro and PS5, which don't prominently feature it).
 
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I mean... Playstation games generally do NOT have managed memory. They are built in C++ and the developer explicitly manages the memory.

So you don't have things like automatic garbage collection; same with the vast majority of XBox Games.

It's mostly only Indies that are using something like Unity with C# on Xbox and automatic memory management.

So no, that's not going to be an issue on PS5 for the vast majority of games.
Did you know the Xbox Series X has the power of the PS5 and PS4 put together?
 
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I can make a video where it has loads of crazy transitions even if still I don't like using them, but its clickbait, so I will say it in the description of the video and evrywhere else I share the video.

They may actually not care about it, but since everyone loves TFLOPS, they use it, whats the problem.
 

Nikana

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Your mistake is to think Mass Market exists in some sort of parallel dimension from the rest of their marketing for some reason.
Even if their TV ads don't mention it, you literally have to go through a page or retail store with giant 12TF banners to buy your console.

Think about it, their advertising can't exist in a vacuum. The X1X was sold as a 4K, and ads for XSX would hit similar; the distinction is still all that other advertising they've done and is still there.

The point you seem to be making is that XSX is largely unknown to the masses due to no mass marketing, which is already a bit of a stretch (I've talked to non-gaming friends that know about PS5, for example), but also that no other piece of info, even the very prominent 12TF number, will make it to masses if the mass marketing won't mention it. That's most certainly not true.
All your marketing would need to run like that for that to happen (eg. PS4 Pro and PS5, which don't prominently feature it).
You said the mass marketing started. It hasn't.

Never claimed their advertisements are not linked.

Never claimed the XSX is unknown. Ever.

All I have ever said is that the mass market advertising which targets audiences not in the gaming sphere only,which makes up a majority of console sales, will not feature 12TF as a marketing point. Because that marrket not only doesn't know what a Teraflop is and couldn't care less what a Teraflop is.

The same way the one X mass market advertising also did not feature teraflops. Even though for over a year Microsoft touted 6TF and 4K.

Quit moving goal posts and making assumptions about things I never said.

Also your GIANT claim seems to be unfounded in their current marketing.

Best buy:

GameStop:



Notice that not only is 12 TF not the prominent piece of either picture, but Most Power Xbox is. Which is what the mass market will gravitate to. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt since you said in store banners. If you want to provide proof of these banners that feature 12TF in GIANT fashion go for it. But they do not exist in my area.

Edited to reduce image sizes so we all dont have to suffer.
 
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Bryank75

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Nope, you will notice texture popping, weaker RT, 1440/30, etc... on series s
Series X wont have those limitations.
Well, that just makes the whole brand look bad.... advertising a last gen spec system as a next gen one. It might not go down well. Especially if they decide that they need to leave it behind in 2 or 3 years.
 
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sonomamashine

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Well, that just makes the whole brand look bad.... advertising a last gen spec system as a next gen one. It might not go down well. Especially if they decide that they need to leave it behind in 2 or 3 years.
Don't worry, they will tweak it so you wont even notice and don't forget VRS, if you look at Grand Turismo trailer (ps5 reveal) you'll see that there are multiple texture popping that you didn't notice.
 

Dnice1

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The issue is people think Sony is special and AMD offers them exclusive technology.
Yeah I remember seeing a video where someone said PS5 is actually rdna 3. Sony only uses AMD for consoles. Microsoft and AMD have a multi-year contract where they are developing several generations of semi-custom APUs for Surface notebooks and tablets. Microsoft is a much bigger client for AMD than Sony.
 

martino

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Yeah I remember seeing a video where someone said PS5 is actually rdna 3. Sony only uses AMD for consoles. Microsoft and AMD have a multi-year contract where they are developing several generations of semi-custom APUs for Surface notebooks and tablets. Microsoft is a much bigger client for AMD than Sony.
MS is a major actor/partner in most of 500M of amd sales since 2013.
 

Dory16

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People are way too sensitive to what MS says around here; did ya'll not notice the Road to PS5 presentation having little references to the XSX architecture? Both companies are hyping their differences, MS is just doing more interviews so they are asked outright about the PS5 and give more direct answers. But when Cerny talks CU counts he's doing so because XSX has more CUs.. and when Jim Ryan hypes next-gen exclusives, something they've always done, it's because for the first time their competitor isn't doing that.

MS makes a tweet referencing their BC always running at full speed (honestly something I think is true on PS5, but that's neither here nor there) a reference to the fact PS5 BC allegedly works by downclocking outside of boost mode... and MULTIPLE people on this forum called that SHAMEFUL... or "FUCKING SHAMEFUL".. and accused MS of RIDICULING Sony lol

Like get a grip people...
There used to be a time when Sega could say “we do what Nitendon’t” and it was universally found funny.

Sensitivity levels have definitely skyrocketed since.
 
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eastwood333

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Well, that just makes the whole brand look bad.... advertising a last gen spec system as a next gen one. It might not go down well. Especially if they decide that they need to leave it behind in 2 or 3 years.
It has a Zen 2 CPU, SSD, RDNA 2,Ray Tracing hardware acceleration etc... its next gen and will play next gen games. Its just a weaker next gen console. There are far more pro's than con's for having a cheaper model. Let's not kid ourselves.
 
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Bryank75

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It has a Zen 2 CPU, SSD, RDNA 2,Ray Tracing hardware acceleration etc... its next gen and will play next gen games. Its just a weaker next gen console. There are far more pro's than con's for having a cheaper model. Let's not kid ourselves.
It's a ballsy move.
 
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Here's Kaz Hirai at E3 2016, when Xbox revealed the one S and the One X:

13 Jun 2016 - This conference has been so long that Microsoft has announced a new console and another new console to replace that new console #XboxE3.

And there's more in 2017:

@Xbox to be fair they did drop a mic (and the rest of Kinect) not long after that. 1:30 PM - 9 Jan 2017. 23 Retweets; 154 Likes
Wait.. please tell me you know that's a parody twitter account and not THE Kaz? lol
 

Dory16

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Wait.. please tell me you know that's a parody twitter account and not THE Kaz? lol
I had no idea. Thought I remembered the “conference too long” one from 2016. My bad if fake. Kaz “Ridge Racer” Hirai was a good troll though
 

Journey

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MS is so full of crap. I have NO IDEA why they seem to be off their game since the PS5 showing. They need more confidence. There's no way they could know if the PS5 is harder to optimize for or not.

Show me where they mentioned PS5... Waiting patiently.... oh damn I'll become a skeleton at this rate lol

Why does everyone assume automatically XSX vs PS5?

If your system varies in frequency, it's pretty sensible to conclude that it will vary in performance.

Developers will have to account for that varying performance, they can't depend on full performance all the time. When you watch those DF videos and see a flat line for a game that's locked at 60fps, what do you think will happen if you're playing a game where the PS5 is already running at full capacity to pump out that locked framerate, but then the system needs to drop, will the framerate drop with it? Do developers have to account for this occurrence and optimize accordingly? does that not add another variable? I think that's all that they're saying, they're removing that variable by going with a locked system.
 

John Wick

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Soo much pr bullshit from microsoft as of late.

Shut your mouth and let the games talk.
I iiu<ji} our
That is BS and you know it the reason for the noisy PS4 was quality control and Sony cheaping out on cooling to make a few dollars. The loud fans on a map screen of a game that sold 10 million copies they could patch it. The whole cooling argument is being sony stockholder pocket protectors. Cerny is in marketing mode right now if believe they could not make a quiet ps4 I have this sweet bridge for sale. The variable clocks are to make Sony more money smaller APU lower build cost bigger profits very simple. The cooling is marketing speak to distract from the subject which a great marketing person does. It is beautiful sleight of hand distraction and marketing by Sony. It helps to have the media in your pocket who won't ask the hard questions.
This forum is a joke with fangirls thinking they're engineers and game developers. LMFAO at this guy thinking he knows better than MarK Cerny. Why don't you take his job at Sony? Your just making yourself look desperate and a fangirl to boot
 

John Wick

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You're misunderstanding. There is a leap between what Cerny is saying and the interviews and what you are framing it as. A leap you've made but cannot show as I'm asking - you can only show the general points and tie them together. They are not quotes what you are saying and they are your insertions based on an interview. They are also not directly supported by the articles youve provided. It would be like taking a general quote about rear wheel drive, then extrapolating a point to specifically aim at BMW. It's disingenuous and if you expect to be taken seriously, you should stop it.

I have no side, but I'm sick and fed up of people doing this in these threads. I support evidence and facts that are actually stated as such, and when people make leaps they clearly state why and when they're making those leaps. Not hide behind appeal to authorities that are incorrect. And this goes for 'both sides' as boogie would say. Whether it's downclocking, SSD speeds etc.
Another so called expert thinking he knows more than console engineers and game developers. Remember this? "Microsoft Chief Staff for Devices and Studios Group Aaron Greenburg also commenting in his Twitter feed telling one fan that “You realize that you see every game in 1080p output, right?”. Later Greenburg clarified his comments by saying that he knows that upconversion isn’t the same thing has native rendering in 1080p ". Or can you remember the Power of the Cloudz? What happened? MS spokespersons have a habbit of talking nonsense. But thats the class difference in Sony and Nintendo that they don't need to stoop to MS level of refrencing other companies hardware or software.
 

tryDEATH

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Nov 3, 2017
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Great comment from under a youtube video on the subject;

Paulo Lameiras2 hours ago
'MS have put themselves in a tough situation. Series X main argument against PS5 is the teraflops advantage, but with a Series S also available, they have to convince people that teraflops may not be that important. They basically will have to kill their best argument to make both systems equally worth buying.'
Both Apple and Google already utilize the same strategy that Microsoft is going with. They both will have flagship phones that are $800+, but also offer significantly cheaper versions of their flagships that still retain aspects of the flag ship phone

Iphone SE is selling like hot cakes at $400 and it has the same exact processor as their $1000+ flagship phone and Google is about to release their Pixel 4a at $300-$350 that is going to for a more balanced performance and phone feature set compared to their flagship phone.

Both are doing it for market share and to keep people in their respective store platforms, with an enticing price point. Both will brag about their big guns, but they also know there is a huge market for cheaper phones that they can service.
 

quest

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This forum is a joke with fangirls thinking they're engineers and game developers. LMFAO at this guy thinking he knows better than MarK Cerny. Why don't you take his job at Sony? Your just making yourself look desperate and a fangirl to boot
So the ps4 apu has a tdp that is impossible to cool quietly lol? Or that there was not big time quality control issues with some of us who got much louder PS4 units than others. I have launch day ps4 lol I bought a ps1 ffs i just call it as i see it. Some of us can call out both companies when they mess up i know a foreign concept to many lol.
 

quest

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Another so called expert thinking he knows more than console engineers and game developers. Remember this? "Microsoft Chief Staff for Devices and Studios Group Aaron Greenburg also commenting in his Twitter feed telling one fan that “You realize that you see every game in 1080p output, right?”. Later Greenburg clarified his comments by saying that he knows that upconversion isn’t the same thing has native rendering in 1080p ". Or can you remember the Power of the Cloudz? What happened? MS spokespersons have a habbit of talking nonsense. But thats the class difference in Sony and Nintendo that they don't need to stoop to MS level of refrencing other companies hardware or software.
Really?

Of course, Kutaragi also took the time to bash the Xbox 360, which he likes to call, "the Xbox 1.5".

 

pyrocro

Member
Mar 19, 2020
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Great comment from under a youtube video on the subject;

Paulo Lameiras2 hours ago
'MS have put themselves in a tough situation. Series X main argument against PS5 is the teraflops advantage, but with a Series S also available, they have to convince people that teraflops may not be that important. They basically will have to kill their best argument to make both systems equally worth buying.'
Or Just sell it at a lower price, LOL.
Funny how you pay more for 2080ti than a 1660ti. But you know that lower TF number will get them in the end.
I'll give you one guess on which one makes the most money for Nvidia.
This stuff is not hard.
 
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pyrocro

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You're confused, SmartShift exists on top of Sony's approach with clocks. MS very likely could not make use of it because their clocks are capped.

What I personally take issue with in this interview, is that Jason's talking point are openly misinformed.
This isn't to shit on XSX's solution, but he clearly does not understand the competition's (he's a Program Manager, he deals with inter-department communication), and his points are a bit fanboyish.
I wish I knew Spanish to read the original, but Wccftech has a tendency to blow things out of proportion.
LOL, where is the quote of Sony is not using smart shift and it's their custom solution. those mavericks what can't they do.
I'm sure it does not exist prove me wrong, please.

Of course you think Sony engineered custom hardware to control the complex CPU AMD made and put the AMD engineers to shame, it was so easy for them, sony should just start making CPUs to show intel and AMD how it's done.
 
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quest

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LOL, where is the quote of Sony is not using smart shift and it's their custom solution. those mavericks what can't they do.
I'm sure it does not exist prove me wrong, please.

Of course you think Sony engineered custom hardware to control the complex CPU AMD made and put the AMD engineers to shame, it was so easy for them, sony should just start making CPUs to show intel and AMD how it's done.
Well cerny and his crew did invent the SSD and hardware io so anything is possible lol.