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[Dante]

I certainly hope they wouldn't give up, things only a year old.

 

[VALIS]

It's not like anyone's buying 360 for it's "amazing games lineup" (note the parenthesis), is it? It's all HD, HD, HD!!!!

Funny thing, people who's tastes don't revolve around cartoons aimed at 12-year olds, as your avatar would suggest, do think it has an "amazing games lineup," yeah.

 

[E-phonk]

For it's next console, Microsoft should make a deal with a company like sega - and release the xbox 720 or whatever under the sega brand.

Even Windows is not the invincible juggernaut as is percieved.

Yes it is - despite ten years of free linux pimpin' in the technical and even mainstream press. And Apple hasn't grown that significantly either.

Anyway - I think it'll take them at least five to ten years to win back the amount of money they blew on the xbox project.

 

[Mr_Furious]

I'll go on record right now that if the 360 doesn't turn a profit in 2008, then there will not be another Microsoft console. No way.

MS certainly has quite the battle ahead of them. From Xbox to Xbox 360, MS hasn't really done much to attract outside of a certain demographic. Sure they tried early on in the Xbox's lifecycle but that quickly changed when they came to the conclusion that only xbox owners were male 15-35. They need to break out and diversify their line-up if MS wants any chance of doing better this generation than they did the last. At this point, I'm inclined to believe MS will do no better with their 360 based on what I've seen.

 

[Uncle]

I think it was around 6 months and the pricedrop was $100.

Not in Europe it wasn't. It was actually a month and the drop was a bit under 200€ (from 500 to 300 or so).

 

[Kolgar]

Sony downplayed its brand when launching PS1.

Or rather, Sony BUILT the PlayStation brand with the launch of that console. Today it's easily the most valuable brand in the industry, bar none.

You make fair points that the success or failure of a console hinges on far more than the brand itself, however. Technology and developer support are crucial. And yet without a strong brand, people may not give your console a chance. Look at Xbox 360 in Japan. If MS ever launches a new console in that country, I hope they give it a new name. Because "Xbox" doesn't get much love there. After two failed consoles, the name carries negative connotations and you don't want to carry that over to a new generation.

As for Sony, I think they're undermining the PlayStation brand by introducing a "do-anything" machine that costs far more than traditional PlayStation game consoles. Before PS3, you could ask, "What's a PlayStation?" And the answer was, "An affordable game player with the best and most varied library of games." But PS3 isn't affordable like past consoles. The product doesn't match customers' expectations for the brand.

Maybe Xbox 360 will become the new PlayStation: An affordable game player with a great and varied library of games. Or maybe the Xbox brand has already doomed the console to middling success in countries outside the U.S.

Brand isn't everything, but a strong brand is a great help in this market as well as any other.

 

[Odysseus]

For it's next console, Microsoft should make a deal with a company like sega - and release the xbox 720 or whatever under the sega brand.

The only deal Microsoft should make is with Sony. Anything else is a continued losing proposition. Particularly Sega... good grief, that would be the worst idea ever in history of mankind.

 

[DarienA]

The slight increase (in some cases DEcrease) in quality over current gen consoles on SD TV doesn't IMO warrant the purchase of the console unless you've got the HD TV to go with it.

It's not like anyone's buying 360 for it's "amazing games lineup" (note the parenthesis), is it? It's all HD, HD, HD!!!!

EDIT: Perhaps the original poster was referring to having to buy the expensive HD-DVD drive add-on to watch next gen movies?

Let's just say I disagree. Slight increase?

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

It's not like anyone's buying 360 for it's "amazing games lineup"

Your avatar suggests that you've been quite satisfied with a ten-year-old farming sim and you scoff at the X360's library? Weak.

Anyway I'm putting all of my chips into MS so I hope they stick around. I'd like to see something happen with MS & Sony getting together in the near future though(and by near I'd say 4-5 years).

 

[Oni Jazar]

For it's next console, Microsoft should make a deal with a company like sega - and release the xbox 720 or whatever under the sega brand.


Yes it is - despite ten years of free linux pimpin' in the technical and even mainstream press. And Apple hasn't grown that significantly either.

Anyway - I think it'll take them at least five to ten years to win back the amount of money they blew on the xbox project.

That's the insane part. 15 years until they're back to where they started :lol.

 

[jett]

Yeah, the xbox might be profitable someday...but how long will it take them to recoup the insane losses? It's just ridiculous.

 

[AdmiralViscen]

Yeah, the xbox might be profitable someday...but how long will it take them to recoup the insane losses? It's just ridiculous.

They don't have to. They went into the project expecting those losses. It was money paid to gain entry into a market, to prevent Sony from getting too big in the living room.

 

[Scotch]

That's just flat out awful.

Mind you, I think they bought Lionhead that year.

 

[itslikethatyall]

theres also been some really good 360 bundles lately like a premium edition with 3 good games for like $300 or something

 

[elostyle]

Let's just say I disagree. Slight increase?

It is not really debatable that there is a smaller incentive to buy an HD system if you don't have an HDTV. Improved graphics on SD or not, why would one really want to bother with it if you could have 4 times the quality and the fact being advertised in your face. I know that I won't bother getting a 400$ system that I can't play in HD due to the lack of an HDTV.

You might want to check that analyst thread on the front page. It states something similar.

 

[Dizzy]

Not in Europe it wasn't. It was actually a month and the drop was a bit under 200€ (from 500 to 300 or so).

Yeah in Europe it was a month after, and they dropped the price in the UK by £100. They had to apologise to the early buyers by giving them free games and a controller.

GC & Xbox were pretty much neck and neck after that until Christmas, at which point Microsoft practically began giving the console away and Nintendo did nothing.

 

[Ranger X]

Profitable in 2008? maybe.
But chances are we will have a full blowned popular PS3 and Wii by then...

 

[HocusPocus]

Profitable in 2008? maybe.
But chances are we will have a full blowned popular PS3 and Wii by then...

and 360?

 

[trancejeremy]

Personally though, I think the real point of MS's console division is to protect Windows. And to a lesser extent, the PC.

Sony has made no bones about how it considers the PS3 to be a computer. They've always called the PS division "Computer Enterainment" even with the PS1.

In their vision, the PS3 will replace the PC for things like buying music, movies, surfing the web, etc. Maybe more, if Linux really does come with it.

Probably unlikely to happen (though not unprecdented - the C64 ruled over the PC for a while), but I think MS is simply worried that it might. Which would hurt them, since they make most (or a lot) of their money off of Windows. So they started up the whole Xbox division to block Sony's scheme.

They can also use the 360 to help sell more copies of Windows. I mean, to hook up the 360 to the PC, you can't just use regular old Windows, but Windows Media edition. And presumably a fancier version of Vista as well.

 

[Aisenherz]

Next Gen



As well they shouldn't, they have a very strong product with the X360 in terms of technical prowess and the XBL appeal.

What else do they have to say? They are loosing a lot of money with their "Xbox-divison! What else should they say? "We will stop it, if the Xbox sucks a second time"? So nobody wants to buy a Xbox?! It is PR-BS!

 

[Ranger X]

and 360?

Yes maybe. But the 360 will not be able to be "full blown" if the PS brand is too strong this gen again and if on top of that Nintendo gets some market back with the Wii.
I'm just tempering the waters. It's ok to be enthusiastic but i hope for Microsoft that they won't wake up depressed in a couple of years.
I even think that this gen all 3 have disproportionned expectations. They will all fall under what they projected.

 

[Guy LeDouche]

As for Sony, I think they're undermining the PlayStation brand by introducing a "do-anything" machine that costs far more than traditional PlayStation game consoles. Before PS3, you could ask, "What's a PlayStation?" And the answer was, "An affordable game player with the best and most varied library of games." But PS3 isn't affordable like past consoles. The product doesn't match customers' expectations for the brand.

I think it's more like Nintendo's old fans, but a little tweaked. The classic Nintendo fan was like 7-12 years old when NES came out, and they fell in love with it and with each generation, want to remember their rose-colored memories (deservedly so) with updated titles from classic franchises. Every new generation, Nintendo goes back to that base and does an average-to-amazing job, depending on the franchise.

Sony fans were about the same age when the PS1 was fresh and new and the hottest ****ing thing around, like the NES was two generations before. I am in this group. I fell in love with killer PS1 titles like RE1, MGS1 and Wipeout. Now, I am older (with more expendable money than when I was a kid) and want what I remember from the glory days of PS1 - killer graphics, big action, alot of fun. I am older now, with more money and am ready for a $600 console.

I'm white, mid-twenties male with more expendable income than brains. I am Sony's bread & butter demographic, their base fans. Sony is smart to keep coming back to their base, which what they seem to be betting on.

We'll see if it works out.

edit: the difference maker is that Nintendo bets winning their base on flat out fun games with bright colored graphics and fun adventure, while Sony bets on fun games with "advanced" graphics and big stories and whatnot.

 

[SpacLock]

I always believed it would take 3 generations before Microsoft finally gives up on the xbox project.

I don't think Microsoft is going to stop at all.

 

[StingerNLG]

the already somewhat tenuous third-party support

Wait....what?

 

[Wulfer]

Looks at thread "shakes head" and these were the same people saying PS3 would kill 360 a year ago... The same people saying Blu-ray will win the HD wars... The same people saying Nintendo didn't have a chance... Well, I say to you it hasn't happened yet! Let's see how you feel around March of next year? Micrsoft is the LEADER hear that loud! No one else is in the next-gen game yet. Microsoft controls the price drop change of events. A $300 Xbox 360 and $250 Wii is gonna make that 500-600 PS3 look mighty high. Just remember that when you type some of this crazy stuff!

 

[Mar]

The history of consoles disagrees with you. It is ironic how when consoles do their best is when they have little to no brand recognition at all. Sony downplayed its brand when launching PS1. Sega came from nowhere during the 16-bit generation. DS shed the 'Gameboy' brand and it has become successful. Nintendo had zero brand recognition with the launch of the NES. Likewise, when consoles 'fail' to gain considerable traction in the marketplace, they often are well recognized by the brand. Atari's brand didn't save the 5200, the Jaguar, or all the incarnations in between. Nintendo's brand didn't rocket the N64 or Gamecube past its competitors. Sega's brand didn't make the Saturn or Dreamcast any success. The Playstation brand didn't translate to automatic PSP success.

People buy consoles to get to good games. The market doesn't care who makes it, only if it has cool games. When will the brand myth die?

And yes, the market does reset. Being successful one generation does not guarentee success for the next generation. It might give one better odds, but the probability game still must be made. The success or failure of the Xbox 360 will depend on the Xbox 360, not the original Xbox.

This guy knows the score. I think only people who started gaming in the Sony era don't understand this concept.

 

[goomba]

"SEGA wont give up on the DC"

 

[Azelover]

I don't think Microsoft is going to stop at all.

If Sony doesn't stop, they won't.

MS is not a leader in this market, and they'll never be. They are by far the best replacement for Sega in this industry in the sense that they are here to challenge and battle, and believe that by doing so vigorously they'll achieve leadership. But the truth is they are here for as long as Sony is, if the PS3 fails and the Xbox keeps losing money it's a no brainer for Microsoft. Internally there's still pressure to discontinue the Xbox, and the losses are only part of the equation.

 

[Kolgar]

Yes maybe. But the 360 will not be able to be "full blown" if the PS brand is too strong this gen again and if on top of that Nintendo gets some market back with the Wii.
I'm just tempering the waters. It's ok to be enthusiastic but i hope for Microsoft that they won't wake up depressed in a couple of years.

I myself look at that sexy black PS3 and its list of popular game franchises and say, "Damn, that's tough to beat." Then it comes back to me:

Five hundred dollars. For the "cheap" version.

And I say to myself, there's no way. Sony has all these things going for them, but that price just will not fly. I think Microsoft pushed the ceiling of what people are willing to pay for a game player, and Sony's gone and exceeded that by 100 or 200 dollars, depending on the configuration.

In my eyes, that means all bets are off. What should have been a slam dunk for Sony now becomes a gamble. Microsoft controls the pace here, as it is in better position to drop prices and put pressure on a financially troubled Sony. They'll be first to reach those critical mass-market consumers, the people who really build your install base and make you your money. As hard as it is for my emotional side to believe it, my rational side says that Sony just gave this generation to Microsoft and Nintendo.

Whatever happens, it'll make an interesting case study in marketing circles for years to come.

I even think that this gen all 3 have disproportionned expectations. They will all fall under what they projected.

I'm afraid you may well be right, and that would be very bad for the industry as a whole.

 

[clashfan]

"SEGA wont give up on the DC"

Anyone that compares SEGA to MS doesn't understand economics. MS has 35 billion ready cash in the bank. That's 35 billion in cash not stocks. MS is one company that can afford to lose money in one of it's division. MS and Nintendo are financial stable companies. Sony is not.

 

[AdmiralViscen]

I think it's more like Nintendo's old fans, but a little tweaked. The classic Nintendo fan was like 7-12 years old when NES came out, and they fell in love with it and with each generation, want to remember their rose-colored memories (deservedly so) with updated titles from classic franchises. Every new generation, Nintendo goes back to that base and does an average-to-amazing job, depending on the franchise.

Sony fans were about the same age when the PS1 was fresh and new and the hottest ****ing thing around, like the NES was two generations before. I am in this group. I fell in love with killer PS1 titles like RE1, MGS1 and Wipeout. Now, I am older (with more expendable money than when I was a kid) and want what I remember from the glory days of PS1 - killer graphics, big action, alot of fun. I am older now, with more money and am ready for a $600 console.

I'm white, mid-twenties male with more expendable income than brains. I am Sony's bread & butter demographic, their base fans. Sony is smart to keep coming back to their base, which what they seem to be betting on.

We'll see if it works out.

edit: the difference maker is that Nintendo bets winning their base on flat out fun games with bright colored graphics and fun adventure, while Sony bets on fun games with "advanced" graphics and big stories and whatnot.

You are not their bread and butter. Their bread and butter buys their consoles at $200 and below. 80 million strong.

"SEGA wont give up on the DC"

So clever.

 

[goomba]

Anyone that compares SEGA to MS doesn't understand economics. MS has 35 billion ready cash in the bank. That's 35 billion in cash not stocks. MS is one company that can afford to lose money in one of it's division.

Even if they keep the 360 alive articifically (by continuing to lose money), that doesnt stop the Ps3 from being the dominating platform if its more popular.

 

[PhatSaqs]

Why is this news?

 

[Kaeru]

Comparing the Xbox to Windows is insane. Spreadsheets and word processors are not in the entertainment business and do not regularly need new platforms. Even Windows is not the invincible juggernaut as is percieved. As the prices for PCes come down, the price of Windows sticks out sorely (which is why more and more are opting for alternatives, especially overseas sales). Windows never became dominant through the retail space. It was percieved as 'free' since it was bundled with computers. Now that people are beginning to associate a cost with it, it will be interesting to watch what happens within the next few years.

Even now, Microsoft still has issues with Windows. How long has Vista been delayed? How many OSes will Apple ship before Vista finally appears? The 'growth' that Microsoft is aiming for is strange since Microsoft shows a willingness to abandon the projects quite fast. Microsoft abandoned its WMA partners, saw failures from its purchase of Web TV, and so on and so on. It looks like Zune is probably going to flop. Microsoft has not been delivering on its products for quite a while. It's most promising latest project, the Xbox, ended up blowing several billion dollars.

But these public comments shows that Microsoft is interested in building a platform, not a product. No matter how much they 'invested' in the Xbox, what good did that do? Few years later is the next generation and the marketplace practically resets. No matter how much they invest in the Xbox 360, in 2011, a New Generation will again appear and the market will, again, reset. When the investors begin to wake up to the realities of how the video game market operates, they will start to ask some interesting questions such as, "Why are we spending billions trying to build a platform in a market that competely resets itself every few years?"

Very good post with alot of weight too it.
It just shows that most videogame consumers arent stupid and they know what works and what doesnt.

 

[cedric69]

Nintendo only sell consoles at profit.
XB360 will be cheaper than the Wii at launch in Japan. Still they will lose.
They could GIVE away teh consoles and people wouldn't take them. Want to be careful about how to use space when you live in a shoebox. If Bill buyes the Japanese users' new homes it might work though..

So PS3 will fail? :lol

 

[cedric69]

The history of consoles disagrees with you. It is ironic how when consoles do their best is when they have little to no brand recognition at all. Sony downplayed its brand when launching PS1.

If I'm not mistaken, though, PS2 clearly outsold PS1. Right?