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Mike Ybarra, Corporate VP of Xbox: Anthem critics “whining”; “embarrassing to review with such a lack of knowledge”
- Thread starter AlexxKidd
- Start date
LegendOfKage
Member
Did the Xbox One reveal not reinforce enough though that think head of his not to ever tell customers that they're wrong?
Is this really something he still needs to be told?
I went from exclusively owning an Xbox 360 and about fifty games last generation to not touching an Xbox console this generation, and statements like "the people who disagree with me are whining" would be most of the reason why.
Fortunately for Xbox, Sony might be falling into the same trap with censorship issues, so I guess we'll have to see where things go from here when it comes to Xbox Two and PS5, or whatever.
Is this really something he still needs to be told?
I went from exclusively owning an Xbox 360 and about fifty games last generation to not touching an Xbox console this generation, and statements like "the people who disagree with me are whining" would be most of the reason why.
Fortunately for Xbox, Sony might be falling into the same trap with censorship issues, so I guess we'll have to see where things go from here when it comes to Xbox Two and PS5, or whatever.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Gaming is arguably the most fickle industry out there... and that goes for gamers, reviewers and the people who make them. Everyone blabs trying to get the last word.
Funny how car companies can get dinged with shitty car reviews, endless articles about car company X, Y, Z losing money, and every key news site will tell everyone about car recalls making them look even worse.
Yet, when was the last time you saw car execs getting on Twitter telling gamers or the press to shut their pie hole....... (Elon Musk excluded... lol)
SlashBringingHasher
Banned
because most of the gaming people are socially inept and dont interact much with the world. and the majority of the rest are children with troll accounts on twitter and social media and dicussion boards. so the kind of psychologically train the execs to act childishly as well.
tho. most people in general are socially inept and are fickle.
Angry_Megalodon
Member
He's salty because their recent first-party games have bombed in MC and the third-party ones they have been hyping are also terrible. Rather than shitting on journalists (however bad they are) he should question why he so eagerly embraces mediocrity. This is the type of game Microsoft is so fond of: Anthem, Crackdown, Fallout 76. Hollow and uninspired experiences for easy cash-grab.
Mr. Ybarra, stop bitching and have your new studios develop good games and then you will have no reason for being a crybaby
Mr. Ybarra, stop bitching and have your new studios develop good games and then you will have no reason for being a crybaby
Plague Doctor
Member
Yeahhh... this isn't retweeting some console fanboy or taking a pot shot at the opposition. Most people in the industry don't care about that bullshit as much as certain members of the fanbase do. He pissed off the press directly and they have long memories. I suspect this is not the last we will hear about this.
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Those people in Xbox are getting squeezed like in 2013 imo, the thing is, Xbox One sold decent its first year or two (some of the pressure came off), much better than the Xbox 360, but its been a pretty steady downhill ride since then as far as sales. I would imagine that and the lack of exclusives, and then Nadella and the cloud crap nobody really is asking for - is putting pressure on that group of people.
Its similar to the "DEAL WITH IT!" statement from 2013. Phil does not have an easy job with Nadella there.
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DigitalScrap
Member
So... I guess this will be yet more proof of their complete lack of journalistic integrity? Their "long memories" should be irrelevant. A real journalist wouldn't hold a grudge and let that influence how they write and what they write about. I guess we'll see.
dottme
Member
I was going to make a joke about some people might call for him to be fire after criticism a game journalist.
But the joke is already real.
.
KingT731
Member
I think part of the issue with this in regard to Anthem is that Bioware assumed people would read the tutorials or watch any of the gameplay videos they released that explained any of the combo system. They also even went to the extent of telling people during the 'Alpha' and 'Betas' that the icons would be different in the actual game.
alabtrosMyster
Banned
Oh well, he has a point, some of those "game journalists" or reviewers are not really gamers, or they're really bad gamers.
On the other hand, Anthem seems to be broken in many ways, this has been a long streak of broken/boring/not much fun games that were associated in some manner with MS, I think they should look at who they associate with, and how they manage their own teams... I know they bought a couple of studios, those are staffed with highly praised devs/artists/etc. however, unless there is a serious change in how their teams are managed (how much freedom they have with the content, how much time they are given, etc.)... it will all be pointless in the end, their games will still suck, or be average in the best cases.
I must give the Forza series kudos, these games strived in this environment,
On the other hand, Anthem seems to be broken in many ways, this has been a long streak of broken/boring/not much fun games that were associated in some manner with MS, I think they should look at who they associate with, and how they manage their own teams... I know they bought a couple of studios, those are staffed with highly praised devs/artists/etc. however, unless there is a serious change in how their teams are managed (how much freedom they have with the content, how much time they are given, etc.)... it will all be pointless in the end, their games will still suck, or be average in the best cases.
I must give the Forza series kudos, these games strived in this environment,
Petrae
Member
They’re not “real journalists”, though. They’re attention-seekers who get off on publicly airing their dirty laundry while feeding off of drama. Social media has become their new LiveJournal, creating an instant audience for them to gripe to about everything and anything.
Luckily for Ybarra, games press isn’t the powerful entity it once was. Streamers hold far more clout with the general public now, and Ybarra knows it. If he pisses off gaming press, it’s no big loss because MS can offer hungry streamers a chance to grow their numbers by supplying them with early access/coverage while letting the sensitive gaming press folks stew in their hot and bitter tears.
ANIMAL1975
Member
But, his he spanking up the communications good?
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Coulomb_Barrier
Member
Seems to me they'll have a more scattered approach next gen - powerful box, standard box and cheap stream box - whether this will be better than a more focused Sony hardware approach (who knows if this is their game even) remains to be seen.
But it's the software that matters. This is where Xbox is leagues behind both Sony and Nintendo.
For Microsoft, its cloud or bust at this point up and down their product/services line i.e. transformation. Nadella does not care what it is, but whatever it is either Microsoft has to be the leader or its going to the cloud. Let's just look at what Nadella has done in the last 5 years or so since taking over:
- Windows Phone (shutdown, end of life support 2019)
- and the whole Lumia division (virtually all of them canned)
- Games for Windows Live (effectively shutdown 2014)
- Microsoft Band (shutdown on the eve of the Band v3.0 in 2016)
- Microsoft Groove Music [formerly Xbox Music] (shutdown end of 2017)
- Xbox Kinect (effectively shutdown in 2016)
- Xbox Entertainment Studios [this was suppose to be their movie/tv developement] (2014)
- Lionhead Studios (shutdown 2016)
- Press Play Studios (shutdown 2016)
- Function Studios (shutdown 2016)
- Good Science Studios (shutdown 2016)
- BigPark Studios (shutdown 2016)
- LXP Studio (shutdown 2016)
- State of the Art Studio (shutdown 2016)
- Fable Legends game years in development and in beta (cancelled 2016)
- Project Spark years in development and partially released (cancelled 2016)
- Scalebound game after years of development (cancelled 2017)
- Phantom Dust reboot (cancelled 2015)
- Project Knoxville (cancelled 2016)
Steps:
- Create a Microsoft Virtual Desktop service for Windows to compete or with Citrix, smaller MS partners, and Amazon Workspace. (check done in 2018) https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/services/virtual-desktop/
- Create an game streaming service for Xbox rentals i.e. xCloud. (should be 2019/2020)
- Create an application layer for win32/xbox - being worked on https://www.notebookcheck.net/Windo...ps-through-remote-Azure-servers.281334.0.html
- Probably Virtual Xbox in the Cloud to play your Xbox library, if its digital of course
Its not a digital future with Microsoft -its a Cloud future. Phil has a very tough job dealing with Nadella, but he did get more money out of him. I don't think Xbox is being shutdown (anytime soon), its going to be transformed just as they are transforming the rest of Microsoft.
Dabaus
Banned
I have to wonder what lies Phil Spencer sold to Nadella to get xbox this second wind? At what point do investors ask why they are setting billion on fire? What if the cloud is the future of gaming but MS is 5-10 years too early, then what?
Game streaming (xCloud) for sure, virtualized Xbox in the cloud (I suspect), PC application from cloud (Polaris) and all the other services like destruction in the cloud (Crackdown 3), stats (Play Fab), etc. Investors started putting the pressure on in 2012 as far as Xbox, by 2014ish time frame even William Gates was asking about Xbox going away.
Investors are now on ice (shutting up) because Nadella has got the business/enterprise Cloud services generating good revenue - Nadella can do whatever he wants, more or less now.
Xbox is NOT going to be shutdown, they just doubled down, but it will be slowly transitioned with the rest of Microsoft products, generally speaking - still talking years out, maybe even 5-7 years.
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Xenon
Member
Yeah, the circling of the wagons have begun. Did the poor gamey jurnos get hurt by da wittle tweet. Whatever.
These people live in a world of hyperbole and say stupid shit daily. A shot from a company rep online is cause to fire back.. not fire people. It's sad what a bunch of little whiny babies this industry has become.
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ThatGamingDude
I am a virgin
If only life were so simple.
You are held accountable for your actions, and the length a person can hold a memory is incredibly relevant in that aspect, as it CAN affect you for a long term because of that.
Should the families of murder victims "long memories," be irrelevant?
Accountability is a huge thing in business; if a team of people is screwing your company on some sort of deal or something, or talking smack, you're going to hold the company accountable as a whole because other employees and teams could put those people in their place and rectify the issue(s)
If a company allows for its labor to act a certain way, it is seeing it as the employees functioning as normal and still creating profit for the company, which is why the entity is held accountable.
In business they care about the bottom line (AKA End Results), and the bottom line is Ybarra called out people on Twitter, and people are going to hold Microsoft accountable for that.
That does lead into the (From what I've seen) newer discussions of redemption instead of permanent excommunication or exiling the person for eternity.
P.S. Business/Public relations is a mother fucker and should die in a fire; business politics suck major ass
If your players have to "become better gamers," to deal with shitty software design, you're doing it wrong.
"You need to learn how to use our software better because it was designed poorly, and you need to navigate around its issues," is a really really hard sell to consumers, and more likely a harder sell to investors.
If your players have to "become better games," to deal with great software design and challenging game play mechanics, you're doing it right.
"You need to learn how to use our software better because it was designed to be difficult, and you need to navigate around the intended difficulty" is a really really easy sell to consumers, and more likely an easier sell to investors.
Yeah, you know, if I were the new industry/generation for reporting news on an industry, I would definetely look at how companies treated their long term members and reflect on how I would want to grow with them in the future.
If you have a dog that attacks its owners on a regular basis, you're less likely to interact with that dog out of fear of being bitten.
That works both ways with companies and their press; both sides are destroying themselves with this shit. The industry as a whole needs to wise up to that and start acting accordingly.
You need press to stay alive, but putting ill fortunes towards your current press outlets is not going to be a good look to others thinking of long term growth as a partner; if you're willing to treat your current partners this way now, what stops you from having that mentality in the future and treating me the same way?
I've sat through multiple meetings of "This company would be perfect for us, but they have a bad track record of doing X; would it be worth the risk being partnered with them, or is it going to potentionally cost us more money in the long run than finding a different partner?" based on the sheer idea that it may have just been a bad relationship between those two companies.
Those types of meetings suck by the way, because it's driven by finance at the end of the day. IT nerds like me just throw our 2 cents in while brass talks about it. Usually comes with a sandwich platter or something though, so it's at least bearable.
alabtrosMyster
Banned
I don't think you got me, generally speaking game journalists are not that good at games, and they often miss the most basic things.
On the other hand this game is actually broken in may ways, so yeah... software should not ship with that many bugs.
ThatGamingDude
I am a virgin
I would place less faith in analysts being experts in doing something and place more faith at them being experts at analyzing something.
To expect an analyst to do the same job as an expert is going to lead you down a bad path in general.
You could make the argument that to be an analyst, you have to be an expert at doing that task, but that would lead to that only veterans of an industry can produce worth while analytics, which is not true.
This is the basis of why analytics companies exist; be it product reviews, journalism, or news outlets, and why companies hire for different positions for analytics than just using the current staff. It's two different things.
ethomaz
Banned
Game journalists are suppose to play the game like us gamers... so I disagree a lot of gamers have issues with bad game mechanics and that shows with game reviews.
They didn't definitively can't be a Pro in the game because 99% of the gamers will play it is not a Pro... so he needs be a normal guy that play games to show a review for gamers like him.
That is why I support a review from somebody that didn't like the genre he is reviewing just to give the experience for a lot of gamers that never liked a genre but have curiosity.
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LegendOfKage
Member
There is not a "day one patch" for this game!
There is a "day seven patch," or a day seven minus whenever the heck they actually got the "day one patch" out for this thing. The game has been out for days, now.
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alabtrosMyster
Banned
So long as the person is critical to view the flaws and interest in what did or did not interest them, it really should not matter...
Now reviewers should get better, I mean they play games for a living, hours and hours per week, logic would tell us they have become pretty good gamers after a while! but apparently they often don't even play the same games as we do, they have a "reviewer" difficulty mode, they are not bothered with the micro transactions the way the other gamers are (if they review before launch).
So in many cases there are legit critics against their credibility, not all of them, but many, and it's not always their fault, especially those who join a big joint like IGN, Polygon, Kotaku, etc.
ThatGamingDude
I am a virgin
Just because you do something a lot doesn't make you an expert.
I eat food on a daily basis but that doesn't make me a food expert, or an expert food critic.
Sometimes in life, you can not be good at something no matter how much dedication you put into it. Just a fact of life man. It sucks, but it's true.
If you're going to get on gaming industry reporting for not being top notch level players in all the games they play, and equate that to being an expert, I would HIGHLY recommend never reading a review, analytics, anything of the sort ever again. The people writing those reviews have specialized in WRITING; they could take that skill and write about any number of things. Their PASSION drove them to use their SKILL for that PASSION.
To drive this point home dude, analytics, IT (Games qualify as software, and software dev is a IT degree), and writing are all separate majors at a university, each one with a sub set of things you can specialize in under that umbrella.
The reason isn't because "Universities are dumping money into convoluted products to pump people for cash," that would only serve to confuse companies hiring people and then the customer's (Students) they're trying to acquire, and costs the university more money than it would gain by doing so. That and companies would start turning away people with those degrees and possibly move into not accepting degrees from that university, further hurting the university.
it's because industries have identified a need for these positions to be specialized, and have developed standards of knowledge in those fields and positions that are necessary to conduct that role properly.
Here's also a thought; just because you have a degree or work in a job doesn't mean you're qualified and the best person for the job, that's why doctors have mal practice insurance. Stating that a whole industry of people is not qualified to do what they do is hyperbolic and naive.
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CrustyBritches
Gold Member
Concerning calls for his removal:
The "gaming press" is obsolete. The whole "The Verge builds a PC scandal" shows they have no power. They generated more views for other Youtubers than their own joke of a sponsored video. Then being butthurt, they tried to enact a copyright strike against them, and generated another ~2 million views for various Youtubers.
This is the strange reality they live in, where it's more financially lucrative to sponsor vids making fun of the "gaming press" than to sponsor the actual vids by them. In this context, what Mike Ybarra is saying is very true.
(Sorry if this doesn't make sense I'm in a bit of fog today.)
The "gaming press" is obsolete. The whole "The Verge builds a PC scandal" shows they have no power. They generated more views for other Youtubers than their own joke of a sponsored video. Then being butthurt, they tried to enact a copyright strike against them, and generated another ~2 million views for various Youtubers.
This is the strange reality they live in, where it's more financially lucrative to sponsor vids making fun of the "gaming press" than to sponsor the actual vids by them. In this context, what Mike Ybarra is saying is very true.
(Sorry if this doesn't make sense I'm in a bit of fog today.)
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lefty1117
Gold Member
I'm having a great time with the game. Could some things be better? Sure. You can say that about nearly every game. Even RDR2 had its detractors. I'll be playing the one through the story and probably into the end game for some time before getting bored and moving on. Don't regret the purchase one bit.
Silent Viper
Banned
Trust Gaf and Era to make a big deal out of nothing.
Those who follow Mike, should know he huge looter shooter fan who spend 100s of hours in such games. He just fanboying over a game that he really likes. Fanboys and reviewers taking it and twisting it to show he defending coz of marketing deal smh.
Fallout 76 also had a deal with MS, he didn't defend that game?
Its his opinion, he should have avoided it but he human and a gamer like us and get carried away and say some stupid stuff unintentionally.
Those who follow Mike, should know he huge looter shooter fan who spend 100s of hours in such games. He just fanboying over a game that he really likes. Fanboys and reviewers taking it and twisting it to show he defending coz of marketing deal smh.
Fallout 76 also had a deal with MS, he didn't defend that game?
Its his opinion, he should have avoided it but he human and a gamer like us and get carried away and say some stupid stuff unintentionally.
Silent Viper
Banned
He is nice person. Only Jack ass is you i guess based on your immature and senseless post
AlexxKidd
Member
Fallout 76 didn't come out days after a major Microsoft release also got panned. It was the 1, 2 punch, and the culmination of about everything not named Forza last year reviewing poorly.
Voost Kain
Banned
I don't think this assumption works. I think Fallout 76 was a marketing deal that was mutual, while Anthem was one MS likely moneyhatted to get based on hype, which is why they are more upset.
Remember MS had Fallout 4 as well. Anthem is a new IP that is expected to sell checking all the checklists but having horrible WOM before release, and MS likely paid for the deal.
Silent Viper
Banned
Mike's inner fanboy acting up but Sony fanboys or MS haters turning this into something else.
He didn't defended BF5, jump force n all as well.
In past he defended Destiny 2 which was not liked by many and had Sony marketing. He very nice guy and do lot of personal give aways . He very social as well, always replying to fans .
People unnecessary dragging pointless topic coz they have nothing else to do in life
He didn't defended BF5, jump force n all as well.
In past he defended Destiny 2 which was not liked by many and had Sony marketing. He very nice guy and do lot of personal give aways . He very social as well, always replying to fans .
People unnecessary dragging pointless topic coz they have nothing else to do in life
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
He isnt wrong in his opinion and has the right to speak up.
People taking shots at someone over a tweet should spend an evening watching one of his streams he is a pretty good guy.
People taking shots at someone over a tweet should spend an evening watching one of his streams he is a pretty good guy.
ThatGamingDude
I am a virgin
He has the right to speak up, I don't think anyone disagrees with that here on the Gaf, but that doesn't necessarily mean what he's going to say is intelligent or a smart move, or that actions do not have both negative and positive consequences, or that the reactions are surprising.
Reducing accountability of an action because he, subjectively not objectively, is a good person, doesn't mean that is everyone's opinion as well, and side steps addressing his behavior (Which I think wasn't bad in what he said, was just stupid he did it in public).
That, and what a person does on a stream should not be a 100% testament to that person's qualities, positive or negative. I'd like to point to Thomas "Elvine" Cheung, the community manager who was recently arrested for some pretty deviant charges as a fine example.
I can't think of a way him saying what he did in a public space and the public scrutiny afterwards as surprising
If you do or say something in a public space, expect it to be met with public scrutiny, both positive and negative. This is one of those golden rules, and the internet is a much larger public space than your soap box on the street corner, so you will 100% receive more scrutiny because of the scale of the internet.
He could have elected to you know, not say what he did on twitter, and dump it in the company Slack chat, or say something entirely different, or not at all.
Once societies catch up to the amount of communication and data that is highly available to the masses, I think there will be some more societal standards/norms set up for how shit online is handled.
For me, it's hard to want to get into the nitty gritty of all these online politics because I mean, here I am in a major city on Cox's fiber solution with asynchronous gigabit (1GB down/1GB up) while I'm legitmately working with customers who are on 5MB down/756kb up and paying twice as much as I do.
I'm not expecting people who, by current standards, have incredibly slow access and that's top of the line in their area to be able to understand internet social concepts that well; they just haven't been exposed enough to the internet to get its ins and outs.
P.S. If you want to do things in a public space and not have it do things like affect your job, making a dummy account is the way to go. You don't have to troll with a dummy account, but it can definitely be used to help obfuscate who you are.
Yet, he is saying others don't have a right to their opinion. (more or less, or it could be taken that way) Look I feel kind of bad for some of these Xbox personnel, that are stuck between Nadella (rock) and a very hard place. However, just like the "deal with it" moment, you can't engage people especially customers like this and let's face it... reviewers are customers or potential customers. Can a reviewer be completely wrong, not really, unless its factual in nature. Really what he is complaining about is his group's possible unwise decisions (from what I can gather from his job description) being reviewed below his opinion, my guess he wouldn't have said a thing if Crackdown 3 and Anthem was lighting up the metacritic scoreboard. <- (therein lies the rub)
The Xbox personnel have an uphill battle because of lost opportunity and lost market share, plus they have to deal with the Cloud Boy Nadella - there really is no reason to pile on. But blaming this on the customer or reviewers is unlikely to win many back by itself - he really is projecting frustration it would seem. imo
Nobody was shedding tears for Sony back during the early PS3 days, or Nintendo during the Wii U days - throw some dirt on it and get good, or go away like so many other companies.
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HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
I didn't take it as Mike saying they didn't have a right to an opinion he is saying get all the information before making an opinion, but again this is just my opinion.
I got your point, I understand. I think what he is saying, "it could be taken that way ", meaning an attempt to stop opinion or whining like others are wrong. His opinion, is his opinion - its like a self-serving opinion though. I actually agree with him a little, just not a good way of projecting his frustration. I would be like, "we think we did some things well, but we need to get much better". Reviewers don't have to be good at gaming, but it would be nice if they somewhat understood the genre they are reviewing. MC is actually a pretty good gauge of quality, generally I'm saying... throw out the high, throw out the low - that's your score. Not everyone is going to be happy.
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HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Agreed and thats one bad thing about text is you never know the tone in which it was meant to be delivered.
waylo
Banned
What if I told you the game does an incredibly poor job at explaining said combos? Because Anthem tells you fuck all about them.
ThatGamingDude
I am a virgin
I agree with you about that and think this is part of the overall issue; all he said was they're not good at the game, anything more is just putting words in his mouth.
Are people going to look at that fondly? Ehhh...
The person actually has to say what they said for it be fact; if his opinion is that they're whining, let him post it, it's his opinion. People (Myself included since I am a part of this current society, plus, go look at my post history lol) need to learn how to not read between the lines so much. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
Compare the following two responses:
"This was actually very easy to do. Amazed at the whining. One reviewer, not the below, reviewed the game yet in the review cited that he didn’t even know how to do a combo. Embarrassing to review with such a lack of knowledge."
"I'm not having any issues playing and understanding Anthem's mechanics; if you want you can DM me and let me know the direct issues you're having being able to play and review the game and I'll either provide that information or provide that information to the people who can resolve it. That goes for any reviewer out there currently attempting to review our game."
At that point it'd be more constructive, not be hostile, and opening a door for direct feed back from a multitude of sources on how to improve the game "Before the official launch day, and the launch day patch." Normal customers can use the standard feed back methods provided to them.
P.S. Why is he even salty? The game technically isn't even out yet; they keep tooting the horn that the game isn't out yet and the day one patch is going to fix all these "early access," bugs.
FullTilt18
Banned
Isn't that like 99% of all game reviewers these days?
LuvOfThaGame
Banned
Is this "cloud boy" thing a meme or something or just a way that people are trying to diminish the leadership in MS? Been seeing this alot lately from a certain group of posters.
demigod
Member
Thats what everyone says yet people are defending him still. I bet you he got combo cheatsheets directly from Bioware.