flaxknuckles
Member
I don't remember The Force Unleashed controlling like shit and Max Payne 3 felt beautiful so why you guys keep saying Euphoria makes games control badly?
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More games should use NaturalMotion's "Euphoria" Engine
- Thread starter Tonky
- Start date
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Max Payne 3 had a lot of animation priority that got me killed, (especially post bullet time), so maybe it's just Rockstar consistently making their games control horribly?
It's just a correlation that people see, I think. Games that use Euphoria tend to place great importance on animation, and that also means that they more often than not make movement animation dependant (and therefore sluggish), but that isn't Euphoria's fault.
OnimaruXLR
Member
I don't understand people who want literally every game to play like Quake 3. Like, if you don't like games with animation priority, that's fine. But don't act like everyone wants everything into twitch based circle strafing rocket jumps.
Rockstar's shooting has room for improvement, but I don't want it to play like a pre-COD FPS
Rockstar's shooting has room for improvement, but I don't want it to play like a pre-COD FPS
Dick Justice
Banned
Yes, they should.
exmachina64
Banned
Triggerhappytel
Member
Actually I'm pretty sure Zynga bought the company who created it, so it's theirs now.
Edit - maybe when Zynga finally go out of business in a few years Rockstar or someone decent could buy the company and the tech from them.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
But we have examples of games that play excellently with little to no animation priority especially in comparison to GTAV, two notable open world examples being The Phantom Pain and Watch Dogs, which both have relatively excellent animation quality so literally what is the downside of a game being more responsive again? Like wtf am I reading? Who are you even talking to?
flaxknuckles
Member
Weirdly, I've seen a ton of people complaining about this stuff in Max Payne 3 and when they explain it it comes down to them shootdodging directly into obstacles and not liking the realistic (and hilarious) crumpling. Is that what happened to you?
Watch Dogs has nice movement animations but all the kill animations feel boring and canned. And when you hit people with cars you see the physics system reveals itself to suck horribly. It doesn't have nearly the same lasting fun as GTA V because of that.
The Overgrowth devs wanted to use Euphoria it at some point, IIRC. The request was denied, so they created a similar system of their own.
Damn, what happened to that game? Forgot all about it.
Also MP3 the GOAT TPS.
Still in ( a painfully ) slow developement.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
No it's that every action in the game takes longer than it should to perform, especially movement.
But it feels good to play and that's the point, the contextual system for animation is really well done as well, lots of tackling and interactions you don't see very often.
Psychological Intellect
Banned
I like my games to have responsive controls so I'm good breh
Euphoria produces more frames of "awkwardness" in my opinion.
The zombie ragdolls last for seconds at a time, occupying an uncanny valley that good canned animation avoids altogether.
Not to say that fully dynamic animation isn't better at some things! In the GIF in the OP, the person standing looks great, while other figure does not, and probably should not have been dynamic.
The zombie ragdolls last for seconds at a time, occupying an uncanny valley that good canned animation avoids altogether.
Not to say that fully dynamic animation isn't better at some things! In the GIF in the OP, the person standing looks great, while other figure does not, and probably should not have been dynamic.
Or maybe Rockstar shouldn't have fucked with what worked and made Max Payne 1-2 fun to play?
Digital Molecular Matter. Apparently Quantum Break used it, never played the game though so I'm not sure how well it was implemented.
The request wasn't denied, they simply never made a request. Here's the relevant quote:
Wolfire said:
Well considering Rockstar didn't develop Max Payne 1-2 that would be kind of difficult to do, ya know?
ffejeromdiks
Banned
They absolutely improved upon it, MP3 has yet to be outmatched, the most fun I've had shooting in a third person shooter ever. After I played MP3 the first time I revisited the originals and you are off of your friggin rocker if you think the gameplay is better than in MP3 just because of the animation priority, a delay that takes about 5 minutes to adjust to and then you never think about it again.
I really hope Red Dead 3 expands on it's gunplay, it's such a shame that GTA5 toned it back for whatever reason.
Triggerhappytel
Member
Yes, they should.
It's crazy how someone was able to patch in similar character physics by themselves.
That's really interesting. I wonder why there isn't an actual middleware developer who sells something like this as a fixed product, if that's at all possible.
Havok is about a close as we'll get to this.
ffejeromdiks
Banned
I believe it was all actually already within the GTA5 source code, just disabled. The Max Payne 3/ RDR gore system laid dormant within the source as well, just had to be switched back on.
Because at its core, from a tech standpoint, it's really "only" animation blending with ragdolls. All the quality comes from producing the animation data and setting up those animations and how they chain into each other, all of which is game-specific.
So for example for the overgrowth guys once the tech for blending and ragdolls was in the remainder was pretty easy because they have a really small number of animations, well, poses really, and the whole trick is blending intelligently between those.
Max Payne 3 and "control horribly" in the same phrase? Wut?
I believe it was all actually already within the GTA5 source code, just disabled. The Max Payne 3/ RDR gore system laid dormant within the source as well, just had to be switched back on.
This may sound really fucked up, but I absolutely adore the gore system in RDR. Made every gunfight feel impactful.
flaxknuckles
Member
Max Payne 3 is fun to play and there's a reason it is brought up every time someone brings up the games with the best shooting mechanics but the previous games aren't mentioned. Oh boo who when you strafe Max it takes a quarter second for him to switch directions, so unresponsive.
Dick Justice
Banned
The game has 2 files that dictate how the character physics work. Apparently the author of the mod used values from Max Payne 3 and Red Dead. Not sure why Rockstar didn't bother to at least bring these more detailed settings back for the current gen version of the game.
Got a source on that? Someone added in canned gore decals similar to MP3 and RDR, but they aren't properly dynamic like in those games.
Since they made it even more fun, seems like it worked pretty well. *shrug*
I loved this stuff in Max Payne 3, but the main problem was that he couldn't smoothly move from have dived into the ground into cover. If you dive such that you land behind cover, he would have to stand fully upright (I assume to reset the physics/animation, because getting into cover was a canned animation initiated from an upright position) before he could then crouch behind the cover. It would have been fantastic if you could snap into nearby cover from a prone position.