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[Teknopathetic]

http://www.hellgatelondon.com/underground/subscription-details



"Ongoing Content


We’re always making TONS of new content for our subscribers that extends and changes the way Hellgate: London can be played.

This includes:


* New Levels to Explore
* New Monsters
* New Weapons
* New Skills and Spells
* New Quests and Storyline
* New Character Classes"




Ok...new levels is great and expected. New Monsters obviously, weapons, of course, skills due to the soft cap is also expected, new quests obviously, new character classes well duh^H^H^H^H WHAT THE FUCK?

I was originally rather wait and see about the Hellgate subscriber thing. I wasn't going to pay for it (or even buy Hellgate, not really my thing), but I figured if they could get new, significant content out on a timely manner then it was at least somewhat justifiable. Subscriber only *character classes* is a tad bit bullshit, because given how few classes there are (and how little they have skill tree wise) you get the feeling they purposely skimped on it for the retail game to gouge the subscribers.

WOW.

However, rant aside, I *guess* that's the kind of content update that would make paying monthly worth it.

 

[Einherjar]

This is exactly what I said on another gaming forum and people came in flocks defending Flagship's decision. They have just gone too far in the difference between free and subscriber, I was really looking forward to Hardcore mode.

 

[Illuminati]

However, rant aside, I *guess* that's the kind of content update that would make paying monthly worth it.

People who play WoW already do I suppose along with the other things a subscription pays for.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"People who play WoW already do I suppose."


Really not comparable at all.

 

[Anno]

It's what, $10 a month? If it provides me enough entertainment to skip two or three other games during the year it pays for itself. As long as the content is continuous and quality, I don't begrudge them the idea.

 

[Metalmurphy]

I sure as hell hope this game bombs all the way to hell.

Judging by the SP & MP beta, it most likely will. I't wont take more then 6 months before it goes either F2P or SP only.

 

[Illuminati]

"People who play WoW already do I suppose."


Really not comparable at all.

I sort of meant that indirectly that you have to pay for a subscription in order to play as them. And I think I am mixing up classes with races. I don't even play WoW, I play GuildWars which is free, FREE!

 

[M3wThr33]

PAY to have a class?

Fuck that. I got into the beta, installed it, saw the servers were down on Friday, didn't play yet, but now I'll uninstall it without even trying.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"I sort of meant that indirectly that you have to pay for a subscription in order to play as them. And I think I am mixing up classes with races."


I think you're talking about the expansion pack which added 2 new races.

 

[Mr.City]

What happens if you unsubscribe? Poof?

 

[Teknopathetic]

"What happens if you unsubscribe? Poof?"


I'm guessing frozen until you resubscribe, but not deleted.

 

[john tv]

How much is it per month? Kinda interested after listening to 1UP Yours this week.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"How much is it per month? Kinda interested after listening to 1UP Yours this week."

10$


Not a lot, you obviously wouldn't have to mortgage your house to play or anything, but still.

 

[Zzoram]

The real issue with Hellgate London is that it isn't a "true" MMORPG like World of Warcraft, which has huge persistent areas. It's more like Guild Wars, with communal cities but instanced everywhere else. The problem is, Guild Wars is free to play online, and expansion packs is where you get new paid content. If you don't want the new island, don't buy the expansion. Once you have it, you can play forever without paying.

Hellgate: London doesn't do anything Guild Wars doesn't, but they want to charge a monthly fee for stuff that they could just include in an expansion pack down the road (new classes/land/quests). The only thing that this subscription model offers over the Guild Wars model is more money for EA/Flagship, and an unfair advantage for customers who can afford to pay $120/year (better items/more stash space).

If it was a real MMO, subscription fees would be assumed. If it's a Guild Wars style game, with no real persistent world, only instances, then charging a subscription fee is a rip off that splits the user base into the "haves" and "have-nots".

 

[Nameless]

I have no real interest in this game(not a big PC gamer) but I don't see why one would complain about users who pay getting more content than users who don't. Its like getting pissed that people who decided to spend extra money got an exclusive car in Need for Speed. If I were a PC gamer I'd just be happy that I could play the game for free, and have extra content available if I chose to pay. From what I"ve read/heard, the fact that people can subscribe and get extra shit doesn't gimp free users' experience, so why complain if you don't choose to subsribe?

 

[Mr.City]

"What happens if you unsubscribe? Poof?"


I'm guessing frozen until you resubscribe, but not deleted.

I guess that would work for the new characters, however I'm still curious how they could lockout certain items for your character should you stop paying the monthly fee.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"I have no real interest in this game(not a big PC gamer) but I don't see why one would complain about users who pay getting more content than users who don't. Its like getting pissed that people who decided to spend extra money got an exclusive car in Need for Speed. If I were a PC gamer I'd just be happy that I could play the game for free, and have extra content available if I chose to pay. From what I"ve read/heard, the fact that people can subscribe and get extra shit doesn't gimp free users' experience, so why complain if you don't choose to subsribe?"


The same reason many console gamers rag on Microtransactions.



"I guess that would work for the new characters, however I'm still curious how they could lockout certain items for your character should you stop paying the monthly fee."

There aren't subscriber only items.

 

[Zzoram]

"I guess that would work for the new characters, however I'm still curious how they could lockout certain items for your character should you stop paying the monthly fee."

There aren't subscriber only items.

Yes there are. Remember the big uproar over Elite perks? The subscribers gain access to a top tier of cooler looking items with better stats.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"Yes there are. Remember the big uproar over Elite perks? The subscribers gain access to a top tier of cooler looking items with better stats."


Oh yeah *those*.

But they don't have better stats, they just look cooler. Now that I remember that. Even so, they'd probably just flag them unequipable.

 

[Pimpbaa]

Fuck you flagship. If ncsoft can do all that stuff for free, you can too. This isn't a goddamn mmorpg.

 

[Zzoram]

Fuck you flagship. If ncsoft can do all that stuff for free, you can too. This isn't a goddamn mmorpg.

That's the thing. They are doing everything along the Guild Wars model, but at the last minute, decided to split the userbase to gouge them for money. Let's see, when did they make this dramatic shift in pricing model? Oh ya, after EA signed on to co-publish it.

 

[KyanMehwulfe]

"Ongoing Content:
We’re always making TONS of new content for our subscribers that extends and changes the way Hellgate: London can be played.

This includes:
* New Levels to Explore
* New Monsters
* New Weapons
* New Skills and Spells
* New Quests and Storyline
* New Character Classes
*New brand market in-game advertisement
*New ad-feeding spyware

There we go. Much better now.

 

[miyamotofreak]

If it was $5 I'd totally understand but $10 is just WTFLOLTIBSSPGM!

 

[Illuminati]

Oh ya, after EA signed on to co-publish it.

From the same people who make people buy extra characters in Marvel Ultimate Alliance then give them out for free a few months later with a gold edition of the game, cheaper then the regular edition when it first came out.

 

[Rolf NB]

A while back, I continuously rolled my eyes at what I perceived to be over-reactions to this two-tier model. I wanted to believe that Hellgate finds an agreeable balance. Bill Roper with the 1up guys already made me a little weary, because he seemed to downplay and avoid issues rather than clarifying them. Uh-oh. And this:

* New Weapons
* New Skills and Spells
* New Character Classes

... is just plain bullshit. I'll just have to assume that this game is getting fucked up as we speak. Which is a shame.

For the benefit of following generations, I'll carve my suggestions into this board.

Give both tiers access to all classes and all skills. When you make new ones, deliver them to everyone via patch. Early/beta access for subscribers is okay, but it has to be there for everyone eventually.
Let everyone use all equipment. This is very important. It encourages cross-tier trade, and that's where you'll grab 'em by the balls later.
Provide better drops in exclusive subscriber areas. Not just weapons, but also consumables, or maybe ingredients that will be used to make consumables. Consumables and superior trading goods are important because they present a benefit even after players have acquired "the perfect set" of equip. If not for consumables, they might as well cancel the subscription then.
At the same time, the for-free players will want to trade their stuff for the subscriber stuff, but the things they have on offer will not be all that appealing to the subscribers. Cross-tier trade will be a limited and somewhat frustrating experience, and will motivate players who just want "get this done already" to whip out the old credit card.

Subscribers should also get a couple of conveniences, such as the extended stash, more room in their private character roster and clan functionality (schedules and in-game reminders, web stats/trophy collections for the clan and for individual chars in the clan etc). These last few things are easily rationalized: people who are so "serious" about the game and invest so much time that they need a clan and ten characters each, are essentially getting an MMO experience, and that comes at a price.

So there. I hope this boat still turns around.

 

[Zzoram]

There we go. Much better now.

Oh ya, I forgot about that!

Not only should this game cost them no more to maintain than Guild Wars (which is doing fine not charging fees, but selling expansion packs), but Hellgate: London has built in EA's new dynamic ads! You'll be walking past billboards for Coca-Cola and Axe body spray while paying $10/month so you can have more stash space and the spiky helmet.

 

[purg3]

Bill Roper seems like a really smart guy, but WTF is going on with this game. How can they get something so right with Mythos, and then totally fuck up Hellgate.

 

[Zzoram]

Bill Roper seems like a really smart guy, but WTF is going on with this game. How can they get something so right with Mythos, and then totally fuck up Hellgate.

EA co-publisher.

 

[Chromax]

I think they should focus on Mythos instead, get a few more zones out ASAP and it's a very solid game.

 

[Zzoram]

Ya, I think Mythos is the future for Flagship. Hellgate: London is not going to do as well as they expect or hope.

 

[Teknopathetic]

Keep in mind there are 2 very different teams working on Mythos and Hellgate, with about 5-600 miles in between them. IIRC, the Mythos team only has about 13 people. Not sure how many working on Hellgate, though.

 

[Mojovonio]

I loved hearing Bill Roper defend this game.

 

[Zzoram]

Keep in mind there are 2 very different teams working on Mythos and Hellgate, with about 5-600 miles in between them. IIRC, the Mythos team only has about 13 people. Not sure how many working on Hellgate, though.

It's funny that those 13 people have produced a product that easily competes with the *dozens working on Hellgate: London :lol

 

[Teknopathetic]

I sincerely doubt there's more than maybe 30-40 working on Hellgate.

That said, I do know the two teams did help each other out.

 

[Suburban Cowboy]

why's Guild Wars free and this not (completely)?

On 1up Yours they differentiated between games like Guild Wars and games like WoW, not explaining whats present in one to justify the cost and not in the other. They then likened HG:L to GW, as opposed to WoW.

 

[Zzoram]

We all loved Diablo 2, but Hellgate: London is no successor to that game. They need to get over themselves at Flagship, they've lost the magic. The small team working on Mythos has the right idea though.

Titan Quest was the best Diablo 2 clone to date, but even that game didn't feel quite right. It didn't offer as robust and logical a loot system, nor did it have randomly generated maps.

One day Diablo 3 will get made, and it'll hopefully follow the Guild Wars model (which is in a sense an evolution of the Diablo 2 online model) and it'll crush all the fakers.

 

[Zzoram]

why's Guild Wars free and this not (completely)?

On 1up Yours they differentiated between games like Guild Wars and games like WoW, not explaining whats present in one to justify the cost and not in the other. They then likened HG:L to GW, as opposed to WoW.

Exactly the problem. Hellgate: London is Guild Wars with fees. And billboard ads.

Courtesy of EA Games. You know what they say about everything that EA touches...

 

[Suburban Cowboy]

Exactly the problem. Hellgate: London is Guild Wars with fees. And billboard ads.

Courtesy of EA Games. You know what they say about everything that EA touches...

but what does GW lack (along with Hellgate in this scenario) that WoW has to justify the cost?

 

[Cheeto]

Ugh...the usual garbage.


I'm pretty interested after the demo.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"but what does GW lack (along with Hellgate in this scenario) that WoW has to justify the cost?"


The biggest being an actual persistent world.

 

[Ferrio]

but what does GW lack (along with Hellgate in this scenario) that WoW has to justify the cost?

Persistant world. Both Guild wars and Hellgate london are all instanced. Meaning there's multiple copies of all the towns/dungeons/ect. So they cap the amount of people allowed in each instance so they don't have to spend a fortune on servers.

 

[Zilch]

but what does GW lack (along with Hellgate in this scenario) that WoW has to justify the cost?

One is an MMORPG with huge server costs and the other isn't. I'll let you figure out which is which.

 

[Zzoram]

but what does GW lack (along with Hellgate in this scenario) that WoW has to justify the cost?

WoW has a large persistant world. You can walk across the continent and see people killing monsters, cooking, walking, or PvPing along the way. In PvP servers, you have to fear getting jumped along the road to the next town, or you can be the one jumping people.

Guild Wars and Hellgate: London are only "Massively Multiplayer" in towns or outposts. Everywhere else, you are in an instance alone or with a small party. You don't really interact with other players except trade in town, or PvP arenas.

 

[Xeke]

but what does GW lack (along with Hellgate in this scenario) that WoW has to justify the cost?

They are two completely different things.

 

[Ferrio]

Guild Wars and Hellgate: London are only "Massively Multiplayer" in towns or outposts.

Nope, towns and outposts are instanced too.

 

[Mindlog]

Hey, people bought horse armor :shrug: :sigh:

 

[ParticleReality]

Hay guys, lets blame EA for EVERYTHING!

 

[Zzoram]

Nope, towns and outposts are instanced too.

They are less instanced, so you can meet with a few dozen other players. At least in Guild Wars they are, and I've seen 100 people in town.

 

[Xeke]

Hey, people bought horse armor :shrug: :sigh:

That has absolutely nothing to do with this.

 

[Ferrio]

They are less instanced, so you can meet with a few dozen other players. At least in Guild Wars they are, and I've seen 100 people in town.

But still instanced, just a higher cap.