-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Most Overrated "Underrated" Developers?
- Thread starter jeremy1456
- Start date
- Status
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
No. But they are currently the sole hope of the action game genre. Which brings me back to my intial point.
Platinum do not make god tier games. That is pretty fair to say and only an idiot would argue otherwise.Their games can be visually a mess, Their story telling and pacing outside of core combat is all over the shop, their games are glitchy in places and they have yet to ship a locked 60fps title.
Despite all that they do however make god-tier action games. Whether that is good enough for everyone is a matter of personal preference but the point is that they are rated the way they are because there is currently nobody out there able or willing to make action games at their level.
It's not contradictory, since they both have a different reference point.
Yes.
Not that Platinum are bad or anything, but most of their games are meh when compared to Clover's magic trio(Okami, God Hand, Viewtiful Joe)
And why do I see people saying Nintendo or NaughtyDog here? I don't find them remotely underrated.
sixteen-bit
Member
Perfect first reply
The Ys games are unargualy incredibly well done action RPGs, as far as gameplay goes. Sure, they have some shortcomings otherwise (can be a bit straightforward, low-to-mid level budget production values, story is basic), so for someone looking for something massive & expansive, graphically impressive with emphasis on strong storytelling, sure, the games might seem overrated. But for anyones looking for incredibly fun & challenging action RPGs, there's really nothing you can say against their Ys games. They are the top of the bunch. There are only a few action RPGs that can compare (KH: Birth By Sleep, especially).
And Legend of Heroes is the other way around. The gameplay isn't anything too special, but it more than makes up for it in the story department. Incredibly detailed worlds & NPCs, fun & charming characters (somewhat trope-ish in certain ways, but not too much so, especially when the story gets going & shit starts to hit the fan) and well built stories that reach heights that very few JRPG or WRPGs can say to have reached and without too much of the stupidity that a lot of JRPGs and some WRPGs have.
So... no, Falcom isn't overrated. If anything, they don't get enough recognition outside their fanbase in Japan and the small niche following in the west.
PoemOfTheLastMoment
Banned
Holy crap, do these guys get a lot of undeserved attention.
Bayonetta, Wonderful 101, Vanquish and very likely the upcoming Bayonetta 2 are all very comparable to that trio, I'd personally rank all three of those that have been released way above VJ, Okami & God Hand. I mean, Wonderful 101 is kind of a spiritual sequel/spin-off to Viewtiful Joe and I'd say it trumps VJ. Vanquish is very comparable to God Hand (I mean, Vanquish kinds of feels like a TPS version of God Hand, at times) and Bayonetta is pretty much the best character action game ever developed, so there's that.
The ones that aren't as good as that trio have all been kind of smaller efforts that obviously didn't get a huge budget or the brightest talent inside the company (MadWorld, Anarchy Reigns) or were a bit rushed (Metal Gear Rising), so it's understandable that they don't quite reach the quality of games like Viewtiful Joe & Okami that had the weight of Capcom behind them.
FloweryMarston
Member
This thread makes no sense. so i vote this thread the most overrated of the underrated threads of neogaf.
seriously, the OP basically want us to say which developers that are niche that we think it's not worthy their niche praise. and people say nintendo, valve?
what the fuck.
what
the
fuck
seriously, the OP basically want us to say which developers that are niche that we think it's not worthy their niche praise. and people say nintendo, valve?
what the fuck.
what
the
fuck
Messofanego
Banned
I take it you still haven't played Broken Age then?
And I agree Psychonauts was almost great, but that was ten years ago!
Yeah I have. I got stumped on a couple of puzzles. Telltale games right now are not even comparable, they just have a different focus.
Played all the games you've mentioned besides W101 and I don't think they come close. And Vanquish felt nothing like God Hand to me.
All opinion here though. Just didn't feel these game are anything special when compared to Clover's games. Maybe I Preffered the style and genres they used to make, while Platinum are more lean on making shooters and DMC style action games. I mean, Vanquish, Anarchy Reigns and Madworld were nothing special to me, and Bayonetta was just not my cup of tea. I would have preffered to see them focusing their efforts on one game each time, instead of creating several average or decent games.
I know there is a lot of love for Bayonetta, but I found it not that good, plus the characters and style didn't click with me. Vanquish was also not that good. Fun but short, didn't wow me like I expected it to. So I guess for me Platinum were a huge dissapointment the last gen, and I was really anxious to see their games back in the day.
I agree. They have a upside-downside games record. Media doesn't seem to like them too much either. I personally like most of WayForward games, but damn they latest games are not that good (Ducktales Remastered loading times between areas are...)
This, man. Their games are just shit.
Yup, them and Shin'en.
Holy Order Sol
Member
So in other words it's piss as much of GAF as possible thread?
QuantumZebra
Member
I'd definitely have to say Obsidian. They get a lot of love here on GAF but most of their games are really mediocre (KOTOR2, DS3, NWN2) they don't make bad games, but they aren't amazing.
This sounds like the problem. It's more of a "problem" in your end than Platinum making bad or mediocre games, because games like Vanquish, Bayonetta and Wonderful 101 are unarguably at the top of their genres. Vanquish, while a bit short, offers TPS-gameplay that you simply can't find in any other shooter, Bayonetta is just insanely deep & fun to play & a (mostly) well-designed action game and Wonderful 101 is exteremely unique & well made as well. If you can't appreciate the awesome, tight, finely honed mechanics of Vanquish, the incredibly verstatile free-flow combat system of Bayonetta or the over-the-top Viewtiful Joe meets Pikmin fun of Wonderful 101, but would rather play a Zelda-like game like Okami or a 2d action platformer like Viewtiful Joe, I guess it's no wonder you're disappointed.
An independent developer like Platinum Games doesn't & can't work that way. They can't release one game every ~3 years and expect to be able to stay in business. Besides, games like Bayonetta 1 & 2, Wonderful 101 and Vanquish ARE games that Platinum Games have given most of their focus (and talent) on. Those are the games where a lot of the Clover talent has put their efforts on. The other games are smaller budget games with no one like Kamiya participating and them not being made would very likely not have affected games like Bayonetta in any way, it would have just meant a lot of those people would be out of a job, most likely.
So were looking for a developer team that has a strong pull in the hardcore market but isn't big outside of that, and they're not that good at developing games?
Platinum.
And that's coming from someone who buys their games. You can't ignore some of the games they put out. They're a mixed bag. Some of the games they release are great and some are just utter dogshit.
I love platinum games, but yeah, it's a gamble.
Platinum.
And that's coming from someone who buys their games. You can't ignore some of the games they put out. They're a mixed bag. Some of the games they release are great and some are just utter dogshit.
I love platinum games, but yeah, it's a gamble.
KefkaPalazzo
Member
Obsidian the thread.
New Vegas is buggy as hell? Bethesda is at fault for the engine. Even if FO3 was considerably more stable.
KOTOR 2 is unfinished? They were pushed to release it.
Alpha Protocol has a strong narrative, good RPG elements, and other merits, but is a technical mess and has outdated gameplay? Who cares! It's a true RPG!
I'm seeing a pattern here.
New Vegas is buggy as hell? Bethesda is at fault for the engine. Even if FO3 was considerably more stable.
KOTOR 2 is unfinished? They were pushed to release it.
Alpha Protocol has a strong narrative, good RPG elements, and other merits, but is a technical mess and has outdated gameplay? Who cares! It's a true RPG!
I'm seeing a pattern here.
To be fair, they weren't expecting PS3's port of Bayonetta to be that bad. Sega just didn't care, and apparently neither did Sony's own technical cert department.
I think you're right, they're not really comparable. Maybe Telltale games are even easier, but it's Broken Age that's more disappointing to me because it's presented just like a proper graphic adventure game yet it lacks about 90% percent of the interactivity and challenge of one. And I don't think '90' is exaggerated at all compared to Day of the Tentacle for example, o a modern Daedalic game.
QuantumZebra
Member
Yep. I feel the exact same way. NWN2 and DS3 were buggy messes at first, too.
They make lots of sequels that tend to have good stories / elements, but overall are inferior to their source material.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
Speaking of which, I also dislike the current level-5. A lot of people liked Ni No Kuni, I just don't. Incredibly overhyped game with weak battle system, weak story, weak characters and personally, weak character designs.
Level-5 was good during PS2 era, with Dark Cloud 2, Dragon Quest VIII and Rogue Galaxy. It's straight downhill from there, to the likes of White Knight Chronicles, Ni No Kuni and Wonderflick. I also think Dragon Quest IX wasn't too hot.
Level-5 was good during PS2 era, with Dark Cloud 2, Dragon Quest VIII and Rogue Galaxy. It's straight downhill from there, to the likes of White Knight Chronicles, Ni No Kuni and Wonderflick. I also think Dragon Quest IX wasn't too hot.
Doug Heffernan
Member
Retro, for sure.
Rushersauce
Banned
Buahahahaa. Now, you're being silly.
blame space
Banned
what's this thread about
jim-jam bongs
Member
All of those things are true, though. There aren't many Obsidian fans who are unwilling to acknowledge the glaring deficiencies present in their games, it's just that the things which they do well happen to be things we value more highly than the things they do terribly.
To be honest, that probably goes for most of the responses in this thread.
Everyone in this thread saying Platinum Games are wrong. WRONG I SAY!
If you just don't like their style then that's fine but it terms of gameplay I'd put them against anyone, ANYONE, in the industry. Their worst game imo is The Wonderful 101 but even that beats the pants of 99% of everything released.
If you just don't like their style then that's fine but it terms of gameplay I'd put them against anyone, ANYONE, in the industry. Their worst game imo is The Wonderful 101 but even that beats the pants of 99% of everything released.
Beautiful. I'm so proud of this thread~
Here's the thing: Treasure is not consistently great at classic action games. Not to the point that their reputation is deserved. They've made a couple great games (best being Ikaruga and Alien Soldier), a few good games, and a surprisingly large number of mediocre games. In no universe are they consistent, let alone the best at the genres they often work in (beat 'em ups, 2D shooters, action platformers).
Treasure deserves credit for the diversity of their catalog and for their great games, but they get credit for so much more than that.
YEs, you are seeing a parrtern of publishers abusing Obsidian.
1) New Vegas WAS rushed (come on, the games developed in, like, a year and even then it was originally supposed to be released later in the year but the release was pushed up a couple of months) and Bethesda's engine is known to be one of the worst game engines on this planet. And no, Fallout 3 wasn't "considerably more stable", that game had fucktons of game-breaking bugs, especially on consoles and especially the longer you played and if you ever added & played the DLC.
Besides, QA is the publisher's job. It was Bethesda/Zenimax who decided to release the game without much QA. So yeah, the blame for New Vegas' bugginess doesn't lay solely on Obsidian's feet.
2) KOTOR2 was, again, another game that the PUBLISHER factually forced Obsidian to ship before Obsidian could finish it. That lead to cut content and a bit of an unpolished feel for all of it.
3) Alpha Protocol was delayed for almost a year but it was SEGA who didn't pay for Obsidian to use that time to tighten things up. Obsidian can't work on a game, polish it etc., if they aren't paid. So yeah, that's another strike that's more against an idiotic publisher than it all being Obsidian's fault. I'm not saying that Obsidian is the bestest developer at developing great combat or the like (their games can be a bit clumsy), but if they had been given even ~6 months more time, then I believe the games would have been much better for it. And while their games can be clumsy, at least there's a lot more depth in their games than in your average RPG like the kind Bioware & Bethesda push out. Choices you make character development wise are actually meaningful and you really need to think about what kind of character you are building.
This is all points out to publishers not treating Obsidian or their games with any kind of respect. It's the publishers who don't do QA. It's the publishers who move up the release months forcing Obsidian to cut content. It's the publishers who don't pay for Obsidian to polish their games even when there would be time to.
Let's just see what happens now that we've had Ubisoft let Obsidian work on a RPG (South Park: SoT) until it's actually somewhat finished (though, if you know anything about RPGs, don't expect a bug-free game, that has never happened and will never happen with RPGs that offer any kind of meaningful choice & freedom, not Obsidian games, not Bioware games and certainly not Bethesda's games) and with a game that Obsidian is working on in their own terms (Pillars of Eternity).
It seems you don't really understand the reasons why they are so highly regarded. Yeah, they falter a bit when it comes to combat/controls/UI, but they develop RPGs with actual deep ROLE-PLAYING. People can forget the shortcomings in, say, Alpha Protocol's shooter-mechanics because they can play the game's meat (story/character interactions) in such different ways and feel that their choices matter, more-so than in superficial mediocrity like Skyrim. And that's what a lot of people want out of role-playing games. Maybe Mass Effect is a better-playing shooter (though, I find it's nearly as mediocre as Alpha Protocol in comparison to actual shooters), but Alpha Protocol offers the vastly superior writing & choices -> consequences gameplay, which is almost unrivaled in today's RPGs (especially bigger ones), really.
KOTOR2 is probably the best written Star Wars game ever. If it has any shortcomings gameplay-wise, it's mostly because they had to rush it out and they were using another developers gameplay mechanics as a basis for the game which weren't that incredible in the first place. And while vanilla NWN2 isn't anything super special, it got us Mask of the Betrayer, which is, like, some of the best cRPGing ever created. Then there's Alpha Protocol (some of the deepest choices vs. consequences stuff in games) and Fallout New Vegas, which is again the deepre RPG experience in comparison to Fallout 3, despite Bethesda seemingly trying their best to torpedo the project by forcing them to release earlier than originally planned even when their schedule was already incredibly tight.
Dungeon Siege III was a disappointment, but from what I've understood a lot of that seems to be the fault of one of the lead designers (or someone) who didn't have the best ideas of how to develop a good hack 'n slash and who has since left Obsidian for Bioware or somewhere. The basic gameplay wasn't that bad and due to Square Enix not rushing the game out it was a pretty polished experience, but the coop was botched and the writing wasn't even near Obsidian's top tier stuff.
I'm honestly stuck on the thread title, have been for 10 minutes.
From my understanding this thread is about criticizing things that are underrated but overrated when it comes to specific fan bases. That doesn't make sense, games have merit, games have issues, go from there. Perception battles are the worst because everyone can be operating on separate perspectives.
From my understanding this thread is about criticizing things that are underrated but overrated when it comes to specific fan bases. That doesn't make sense, games have merit, games have issues, go from there. Perception battles are the worst because everyone can be operating on separate perspectives.
Tripwire Interactive. They had a golden goose named "Red Orchestra" and a very dedicated community that led to the mods' and games' success.
So what do they do with Red Orchestra 2? They decide to "codify" it and completely shit on the dedicated community. Players leave, clans disbands, ladders close, content creators move on.
Their president is a lying smartass that misled the old community, getting a lot of preorders in the process and when the game was released, it was a buggy run'n gun fest with gameplay unlike older games. He quickly dismissed the old community as "You're only 0,01% of the community".
The worst thing is, they have made a deal of some kind with PCGamer and once in a while, they publish completely bullshit articles and videos about how TWI is the saviour of the PC and FPS' and how RO2 is totally better than BF4.
So, yeah. Don't give them money.
So what do they do with Red Orchestra 2? They decide to "codify" it and completely shit on the dedicated community. Players leave, clans disbands, ladders close, content creators move on.
Their president is a lying smartass that misled the old community, getting a lot of preorders in the process and when the game was released, it was a buggy run'n gun fest with gameplay unlike older games. He quickly dismissed the old community as "You're only 0,01% of the community".
The worst thing is, they have made a deal of some kind with PCGamer and once in a while, they publish completely bullshit articles and videos about how TWI is the saviour of the PC and FPS' and how RO2 is totally better than BF4.
So, yeah. Don't give them money.
Have you played Red Orchestra 2 since launch? The game has gone through extensive surgery and the community is pretty big.
FaintColt388301
Member
THATGAMECOMPANY
Journey was pretty good but I think they get a little too much credit
Journey was pretty good but I think they get a little too much credit
Ultimadrago
Member
Obsidian?
Obsidian.
Obsidian.
They are. Bayonetta, Wonderful 101 & Vanquish are easily comparable to the best output of Clover and even exceed it. I mean, Wonderful 101 is basically Viewtiful Joe gone all Pikmin. And while DMC wasn't a Clover game, Kamiya did become a part of Clover and Bayonetta >> DMC.
MadWorld & Anarchy Reigns are lesser products that are probably made to have more frequent releases so that they don't have to lay off people. Though, personally I think Anarchy Reigns is great as well.
- Status
Similar threads
- Poll