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Most people think atheists are less moral, even other atheists
- Thread starter brian577
- Start date
It's true. I was contemplating NOT stoning my daughter but then I read the Good Book™ and it showed me true morality.
Also some mid level shitposting in here. Even if the first thing you thought of was reddit when someone said "atheism" why would someone wearing a fedora or whatever memery make them immoral lol.
You make it sound like people don't change the goalposts with regards to morality even when religion is the one dictating what is moral.
Also some mid level shitposting in here. Even if the first thing you thought of was reddit when someone said "atheism" why would someone wearing a fedora or whatever memery make them immoral lol.
You make it sound like people don't change the goalposts with regards to morality even when religion is the one dictating what is moral.
OnionPowder
Member
The "meme" of the atheist wearing a fedora, was born out of them being assholes towards other peoples religion and generally being disrespectful to anybody who disagreed with them.
Religion is a profound source of tribalism because everyone fights over which empty game of ego projection is canonical, and will kill over it.
People who fall into this are the ones being asked about morality?
The problem atheists have is they likely fall into similar dualistic worldviews of religions but minus the cosmic Big Boss. Getting rid of the spook in the sky doesn't help one to see implicit unity.
People who fall into this are the ones being asked about morality?
The problem atheists have is they likely fall into similar dualistic worldviews of religions but minus the cosmic Big Boss. Getting rid of the spook in the sky doesn't help one to see implicit unity.
Being assholes towards people of other religions? Are religious people free from that? I guess there is no fedora meme equivalent though. Time to change that.
*tips*
Doctor_Thomas
Member
Being assholes towards people of other religions? Are religious people free from that? I guess there is no fedora meme equivalent though. Time to change that.
*tips*
M'baby.
Sorry, I thought it sounded explicit. Religion is literally a factor that allows goalposts to change.
And yet there are also studies showing atheists are more likely to be truthful and stick to their morals
As an atheist I don't get how an atheist mistrusts an atheist over a religious person. I mean I know I have morals and I stick to them becuase I believe in them, not cause some more powerful than me being tells me I should. I'm pretty sure you're going to stick to morals you believe in more than ones you are told to stick to. Then again, I also think people only believe in the stuff they already agree with anyways. And honestly I think anyone who is doing something just cause they are told some other being frowns on it is much less likely to adhere to it if it is advantageous for them not to then some one who truly believes it is wrong (and that goes for religious people too... I bet they adhere most to the stuff they actually agree with).
As an atheist I don't get how an atheist mistrusts an atheist over a religious person. I mean I know I have morals and I stick to them becuase I believe in them, not cause some more powerful than me being tells me I should. I'm pretty sure you're going to stick to morals you believe in more than ones you are told to stick to. Then again, I also think people only believe in the stuff they already agree with anyways. And honestly I think anyone who is doing something just cause they are told some other being frowns on it is much less likely to adhere to it if it is advantageous for them not to then some one who truly believes it is wrong (and that goes for religious people too... I bet they adhere most to the stuff they actually agree with).
AtomskEater
Member
Kind of like how people who always are on about being "good Christian folk" are always the ones engaging in decidedly un-Christian behavior. I feel like people who have to make sure you know just how religious or not religious they are are probably douches.
On one hand fuck anything to do with religion.
On the other hand fuck the atheist movement that you see on the internet.
And I'd even say fuck them more, scum of the earth the lot of them.
Skeptic/atheist community online is the worst thing to happen to irreligious people in more than 50 years.
On the other hand fuck the atheist movement that you see on the internet.
And I'd even say fuck them more, scum of the earth the lot of them.
Skeptic/atheist community online is the worst thing to happen to irreligious people in more than 50 years.
family_guy
Member
What if I just lead a good life and abide by the law? I do it because I believe in being good not because I think there's some reward at the end of all this or a punishment if I'm not. But let's say there is a God. This entity gave you a list of guidelines to live by, and many of its worshippers pervert those teachings or ignore them outright. Are those people better than the atheist?
I agree, the roots go far deeper than what label people slap on themselves or what god they worship. It's just part of being human.
As a Black atheist, I want nothing to do with mainstream atheists that showcase of level of 'skepticism' on things like Black people being killed by police is an issue that the Black community is making up.
From gamergate atheists to the oiled Sam Harris types. Both are kind of gross to me.
Of course, I'm willing to believe that many atheists such as myself have issues with that type of representation but It's almost eerie to see those who don't believe in god express the same type of conservatism as evangelicals but believe they're sound with their logic just because they don't believe in the bible.
From gamergate atheists to the oiled Sam Harris types. Both are kind of gross to me.
Of course, I'm willing to believe that many atheists such as myself have issues with that type of representation but It's almost eerie to see those who don't believe in god express the same type of conservatism as evangelicals but believe they're sound with their logic just because they don't believe in the bible.
At worst, they're condescending a-holes.
How is that even remotely close to the amount of pain and suffering religious groups have inflicted on humanity over the last 5000 years?
The Soviet Union and red China have done far more damage to the concept of atheism than someone like Sam Harris or Hitchens.
Oppo
Member
i guess that's fair. i do the same for "as a christian"... or w/e
i suppose the atheist is simply annoying where the believers are hiding behind supposedly authoritative dogma
it's not the band i hate, it's the fans, etc
Astral Dog
Member
Unfortunately it goes both sides, many religious people don't care about others or their rights because they believe their community to be more moral, they think others deserve bad things because they are sinners and they think everybody is responsible for their soul.they also care less about the suffering beyond their community in some cases.
And they're both from before the last 50 years.
the problem with religion isn't religion or even dogma but the people using religion to assert their power.
It's why the atheist community keep missing the point as to the fault of religion.
This is 100% true. People will always find some arbitrary, inconsequential trait to distinguish themselves from the other, whether a person is religious or atheist.
I've been called not a true Christian, not a true Chinese, not a true Canadian, and so forth.
lemme stop you there and say an athiest prayer for your poor holy ghost lackin no morals havin 'baby girl how can he love you if he dont love God' hearin self
Hell I'm still undercover because I don't want my mom to have a stress related health problem from hearing her firstborn's not christian anymore
Exactly. That's the main thing I see with athiests. They have this simplistic view of the world that if it weren't for religion we'd all be living in wonderland. And anybody who follows religion is an idiot.
Well yeah but that also means that the alt right, several who are atheists, also want things like forced marriages and shit so....
lol this is what I was gonna say. I always found people who are "proud" atheists a little weird
I'm an atheist
This is actually a good analogy. I've always found the term gamer a little weird and cringey
Yeah, as an atheist I actually find being one quite lonely, actually. I think the communal aspect of religion appeals to me, but I'm only idealizing the good bits.
yanipheonu
Member
There is something to be said about religion's influence on morality. Stuff like pacifism has strong religious roots, as do many of our ideals about society and law.
Not to mention it's not hard to see the appeal of a godfigure as the judge role in a moral system.
I read it as atheism, being fundementally without a shared god, built in moral code or specific spiritual identity, having to work a bit harder for morality. But it's certainly not impossible, and there are some really admirable moralities that can come from an unrelgious viewpoint.
Camus' rebellion against the absurd comes to mind.
Not to mention it's not hard to see the appeal of a godfigure as the judge role in a moral system.
I read it as atheism, being fundementally without a shared god, built in moral code or specific spiritual identity, having to work a bit harder for morality. But it's certainly not impossible, and there are some really admirable moralities that can come from an unrelgious viewpoint.
Camus' rebellion against the absurd comes to mind.
Lord Fagan
Junior Member
I'm not atheist, and I don't have an anti-atheist bias.
I have a anti-I-am-certain-I-am-right-about-what-has-not-been-proven-and-those-who-dare-question-me-are-wrong/dumb/evil-and-need-to-get-on-board-my-agenda bias.
I have a anti-I-am-certain-I-am-right-about-what-has-not-been-proven-and-those-who-dare-question-me-are-wrong/dumb/evil-and-need-to-get-on-board-my-agenda bias.
Basically this, and every kind of subculture has this problem, it's why American Christianism looks absolutely psycho to the rest of the world, but it's also why people complain about even more innocuous things like Veganism, Vaping or Furries.
There is a difference between the guy who is screaming about his atheism to get a reaction out of people and the guy who says "nah, Im atheist" when you ask him about god or something.
Sunster
Member
It's caused me to think of atheist youtubers (garbage people) whenever someone mentions atheism. yea, I imagine it's the same reason meat eaters get defensive immediately when veganism and vegetarianism are brought up.
I never declare it, and I try my best not to use the a-word whenever I'm being questioned about my faith (which isn't often, thankfully, people tend to mind their own business). I say that "I'm not a believer" or "I don't have a religion" or something to that extent. If the other person insists and asks, incredulously, "Are you an atheist", I just reply with "I suppose so, yeah". It helps distancing myself from the words and acts of other self-declared atheists, and reframe the discussion to my own lack of faith.
Does that title even match the study though.
"Those who took part were asked whether an imagined person, who tortured animals as a child before becoming a teacher and then killing five homeless people, was more likely to be religious or atheist."
Well yeah thats definitely an athiest.
If the question was "supports stoning adulterers to death." Just as immoral but I bet most would say they werent atheist..
"Those who took part were asked whether an imagined person, who tortured animals as a child before becoming a teacher and then killing five homeless people, was more likely to be religious or atheist."
Well yeah thats definitely an athiest.
If the question was "supports stoning adulterers to death." Just as immoral but I bet most would say they werent atheist..
Dongs Macabre
aka Daedalos42
.
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i don't understand, why people would chose to say that such person being an "atheist" is more likely?, that description is one of a psychopath and believing in god or not would not have anything to do with taking that course of action.
It's weird to assume that because a person didn't learn the 10 commandments (to say something) suddenly they wouldn't abide by law and be murdering people.
You Are Viewtiful
Member
What is even 'immoral' about r/atheism? Compared to the stuff religious people do everyday?
umop_3pisdn
Member
I mean, a person could potentially make a lot of spurious inferences about the characters of people. For example, a person could claim that an atheist might tend to be too prone to pragmatism, and see something like the holocaust as a failure of pragmatic rationality (which many prominent theorists of modernity do). But at the same time, someone whose habits are dictated by observing cultural tradition is probably not that sensitive to their own individual ethical feelings about things, and people with the most nuanced ethics tend to have that kind of particular internal sensitivity.
Basically, I'm going to go with Hegel, and say that the only way we can evaluate someone's character is through their actions. Trying to make inferences on the basis of anything else is basically just practising phrenology or physiognomy.
Basically, I'm going to go with Hegel, and say that the only way we can evaluate someone's character is through their actions. Trying to make inferences on the basis of anything else is basically just practising phrenology or physiognomy.
wait...idiots are co-opting skepticism? ugh.
There is already a well established skeptics counity of science based researchers. See:
http://www.theness.com/
http://theness.com/neurologicablog/
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/
https://skeptoid.com/
These idiots can't have it.
Probings like the one in OP are more meant on getting a read on popular perception rather than saying "Atheists can't be trusted".
umop_3pisdn
Member
I know, I'm just more interested in the normative question personally.
It doesnt scream religious. So its atheist by default.
And thats how I imagine all the respondents thought when taking the survey.
Polioliolio
Member
Don't let the shitty memes influence you.
The obligatory respect for blind, general faith is irrational, though is clearly a cultural social norm. Richard Dawkins addresses it in The God Delusion. The book is a must read.
The obligatory respect for blind, general faith is irrational, though is clearly a cultural social norm. Richard Dawkins addresses it in The God Delusion. The book is a must read.
I still don't understand the reasoning behind religious people being more ethical than atheists? Like I get what they mean about not having a basis for personal morals without the idea of a higher power, but following God's law because he declares what is right and wrong would be akin to me doing what "Santa" thought was good when I was a child for gifts. It wasn't because I thought I should act that way.
umop_3pisdn
Member
I think some people relate both things to a kind of 'respect for the unseen'. Both ethics and the notion of God seem to be things that we encounter through the intellect, rather than something actually in the world. Kant, for instance, said that in practising his ethics we was practising a kind of Platonism, in that taking norms or ideals means apprehending abstract forms that are in a sense perfect and which cannot exist within the world. Basically, I suppose the implication might be that atheists are too 'worldly' for ideals. I can understand why some people might have that association, but it's a really weak argument because we can still readily conceive of kinds or systems of ideals that are wholly humanistic in nature (ie: "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness") that are themselves perfectly compatible with atheism. My guess is it's kind of an irrational fear that if someone negates God, that they might negate an ideal like liberty, too, leading to a descent into moral nihilism, since perhaps both can be dismissed as 'unseen' within the world and/or impractical.