Support NeoGAF

[Scuderia]

If this means price cuts for the XBONE, that's good for me as i've been holding off. Hell, i bet it would shift a hell of a lot of consoles if it had a price cut.

 

[MrBud360]

I dont understand. MS is yet to launch XBONE on several country's. I dont get the problem. And by the way, XBONE its a great product. I really like mine.

 

[CLEEK]

Nothing now is normal. Manufacturing capacity has skyrocketed so you cannot even compare now to last gen.

'Normal' gets reset every gen. What the PS2 sold wasn't normal comapred to the previous gens. What the Wii sold wasn't normal to previous gens. What the PS4 is selling isn't normal to previous gens. But each became the new normal, and the benchmark to judge the current competition against. In this light, the Xbone is struggling and scaling down production at the point where PS4 are still selling out all their stock is a bad sign,

 

[BigSpleenRupture]

I dont understand. MS is yet to launch XBONE on several country's. I dont get the problem. And by the way, XBONE its a great product. I really like mine.

Kinect, xbox is pretty insignificant in any other countries, ms knows this and focused on its biggest territories.

 

[Astro Monster]

My local Tesco Superstore have stopped selling Xbox 360 consoles. Which I found odd, considering they still sell PS3s.

There must be some reason for it.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Except Sony will not have that type of retailer stock problems, as demand for their console is still strong and retail presence of the PS4 is still not stabilized. With WatchDogs media deal and TLOU Remaster in Q2, they can maybe even surpass what they shipped in Q1.

A lot of "bad news for MS" stories are coming out just because Sony is extending their lead with each passing month. Xbone is selling fine by lastgen standards, but not nearly enough to match pace with PS4.

I didn't really say much regarding Sony, although I expect them to also see a reduction in the inventory held at retail during the northern hemisphere Summer. It would be unusual not to.
I think the PS4 will continue to grow it's lead as well.

But that's ultimately irrelevant to what I'm saying, which is simply that I don't think this relatively innocuous statement in an earnings call means anything with regard to continued production of the product. And have no idea where the leap of logic comes from that this means that Microsoft are halting production.

 

[Cthulhu_Steev]

Maybe they secretly started producing new iteration of Xbox one?
You know, the one with mic build in the system (half kinectless) , stronger GPU, GDDR5, slimmer version call Xbox oneS. And forward/backward compatibility with Xbox one at $399 only.

It's a little known fact that Kinect doesn't use the microphone for voice recognition, it actually lip reads.

For everyone saying this is no big deal, you gravely do not understand modern manufacturing. Before I begin, I'm just talking about manufacturing realities, the console is probably going to be fine. I work in IT for a place that does manufacturing internal and external so I have some perspective on this.

Manufacturing plants aren't just some willy wonka magic fantasy place. Production lines have to be specced, assembled, staffed, and set in motion for a predetermined speed for a predetermined about of time. There isn't a speed adjustment. If you want to produce less of something, its a costly retooling of the entire line. Unless you can somehow fill production arms with similar product, say like Apple did with the Ipad 3 by fitting in the very similar Ipad 2, this is a worse case scenario. This is more costly oops than the red ring of death. Most of the time, when a product isn't selling at the rate it was expected, companies will just warehouse the extra. if they don't sell, then eventually they clearance the inventory out because even warehouses cost significant money over time. Another option is just destroy the extra inventory as it comes of the boat and hope demand picks up so you can stop doing that. Those options are still cheaper than going to the manufacture and asking for less product or even stopping production early.

When a company asks a manufacture to stop or reduce production two things are likely going to happen. The company will have to pay the manufacture for all unproduced units even though they weren't produced nor will be delivered. The manufacture will then charge significantly more to produce any future units at less quantity. They may even be an extra fee on top of that because why not? Also the manufacturer may refuse to work with you on future products.

I like to think this is what really happens in factories:

 

[God Dayumm]

This isn't good for anyone. The PS4 cannot carry this generation on it's own.

It will not have to. The xbox is still strong competition, while at the same time failing enough for Microsoft to try better next time.

And even if MS totally fails, Amazon and Valve are preparing to take it's place. They already bared their fangs.

 

[Fornaximus]

Hopefully Microsoft's desperation in this situation will lead them to make some changes. A price cut would be great and all, but the more I think about it, the more I don't want to get one simply because I can't justify paying another $60/year subscription for online multiplayer. I already feel like a chump for paying on PSN, but at least they give you games to soften the blow. I don't wanna pay for Gold, too. These sucker taxes are too damn high!

So, nowadays, the hardwares in the gaming industry:

PS4: Phenomenal
Xbox One: Not good
Wii U: doomed
Xbox360: declining
PS3: declining
Wii: dead
PSVita: Not good
PSP: dead
3DS: mediocre
NDS: dead
Ouya: in the hell

We need Apple, Google and Amazon to save us...

C'mon, son. I love my Vita, but that shit is deader than dead. Sony killed it via neglect.

 

[TrueGrime]

I dont understand. MS is yet to launch XBONE on several country's. I dont get the problem. And by the way, XBONE its a great product. I really like mine.

This.

Reading through the doom and gloom when it comes it Xbox is just painful to read time and time again.

 

[BigSpleenRupture]

This.

Reading through the doom and gloom when it comes it Xbox is just painful to read time and time again.

??? You want people to suger coat things because people are over sensitive about a piece of electronics?

 

[TheDarkKnight774]

On the plus side, they didn't have Yield issues!

 

[CLEEK]

Manufacturing plants aren't just some willy wonka magic fantasy place. Production lines have to be specced, assembled, staffed, and set in motion for a predetermined speed for a predetermined about of time. There isn't a speed adjustment. If you want to produce less of something, its a costly retooling of the entire line. Unless you can somehow fill production arms with similar product, say like Apple did with the Ipad 3 by fitting in the very similar Ipad 2, this is a worse case scenario. This is more costly oops than the red ring of death. Most of the time, when a product isn't selling at the rate it was expected, companies will just warehouse the extra. if they don't sell, then eventually they clearance the inventory out because even warehouses cost significant money over time. Another option is just destroy the extra inventory as it comes of the boat and hope demand picks up so you can stop doing that. Those options are still cheaper than going to the manufacture and asking for less product or even stopping production early.

When a company asks a manufacture to stop or reduce production two things are likely going to happen. The company will have to pay the manufacture for all unproduced units even though they weren't produced nor will be delivered. The manufacture will then charge significantly more to produce any future units at less quantity. They may even be an extra fee on top of that because why not? Also the manufacturer may refuse to work with you on future products.

E3 announcement of an Xbox One ET Bundle.

 

[Salvor.Hardin]

I'm not anonymous.

Not any more you aren't <3

 

[Loudninja]

I dont understand. MS is yet to launch XBONE on several country's. I dont get the problem. And by the way, XBONE its a great product. I really like mine.

This.

Reading through the doom and gloom when it comes it Xbox is just painful to read time and time again.

Like it has been said by other gaffers it wont do much.

They already launched in the territories that they will sell the best in.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

You fail to know how business and large scale projects work, this got sign off and input from all major players at MS. Just blaming mattrick is simply fantasy. He was a part of it but people blame him because he was the public face. Many at MS share the blame here. MS as a whole had a vision for xbox that didn't jive with what consumers wanted, no one person is solely to blame.

But it was his vision. When did I ever say no one else is to blame at all? I said he screwed the pooch because he did. It was his direction, with his device at the center of the product. That's not fantasy, that's fact. We can spit ball back and forth all day, but you know just as little as I do about the power dynamic within MS's Xbox division.

What's so ridiculous in believing a different division head would have lead to the emphasis of different policies and strategies? That's just practicality.

 

[Tomcat]

It will not have to. The xbox is still strong competition, while at the same time failing enough for Microsoft to try better next time.

And even if MS totally fails, Amazon and Valve are preparing to take it's place. They already bared their fangs.

amazon and valve? Yeah sure lol

 

[BigSpleenRupture]

But it was his vision. When did I ever say no one else is to blame at all? I said he screwed the pooch because he did, it was his direction, with his device at the center of the product. That's not fantasy, that's fact. We can spit ball back and forth all day, but you know just as little as I do about the power dynamic within MS's Xbox division.

What's so ridiculous in believing a different division head would have lead to the emphasis of different policies and strategies? That's just practicality.

Proof?? It was MANY peoples direction. Thats like saying KAz was the guy behind ps4, mark cerney and others had zero to do with it.,

 

[Guymelef]

E3 announcement of an Xbox One ET Bundle.

Now we know why this news...
http://www.engadget.com/2014/04/04/microsoft-et-game-documentary/

They want to make space for XBO.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

Please read this and think again.



Good post.

I read it and it didn't change my mind. They came out alright considering the price and bad PR.

 

[Majmun]

Well, the thing just isn't selling really well now.

There are basically only two markets who care for it.

 

[MisterXDTV]

This.

Reading through the doom and gloom when it comes it Xbox is just painful to read time and time again.

I will explain you why:

In the same time Sony was selling to customers 1 million, Microsoft was selling 400k... to retailers.

 

[Averon]

The countries the XB1 has yet to launch in will not add any significant numbers. The XB1 is already out in territories where the vast, vast bulk of its life time sales will come from.

If I'm being very generous, launching in the other territories will add another 400K-500k in XB1 sales.

 

[TrueGrime]

Like it has been said by other gaffers it wont do much.

They already launched in the territories that they will sell the best in.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. Probably won't do much better in the 2nd tier at all, but I think it will continue to get the support it needs.

 

[Salvor.Hardin]

But it was his vision. When did I ever say no one else is to blame at all? I said he screwed the pooch because he did. It was his direction, with his device at the center of the product. That's not fantasy, that's fact. We can spit ball back and forth all day, but you know just as little as I do about the power dynamic within MS's Xbox division.

What's so ridiculous in believing a different division head would have lead to the emphasis of different policies and strategies? That's just practicality.

I would argue that Yusuf Mehdi was probably just as responsible for the initial vision as Mattrick was.

Of the top Xbox executives, Spencer is the one who comes off looking good because he handled his responsibilities rather well.

 

[mrklaw]

I didn't really say much regarding Sony, although I expect them to also see a reduction in the inventory held at retail during the northern hemisphere Summer. It would be unusual not to.
I think the PS4 will continue to grow it's lead as well.

But that's ultimately irrelevant to what I'm saying, which is simply that I don't think this relatively innocuous statement in an earnings call means anything with regard to continued production of the product. And have no idea where the leap of logic comes from that this means that Microsoft are halting production.

drawing down of inventory just means they want to have less surplus in retail stores.
Which means they have too much stock in retail right now.
Which means they've shipped too much
which means they'll ship less
which means they'll either need to produce less (sensible) or pile 'em high in warehouses (possible but expensive)

so you're right, it doesn't necessarily mean slowing or stopping production - and in fact they might not be able to even if they wanted - its still quite soon after launch. But that would be the fiscally prudent thing to do.

 

[zhao3gold]

Phil Spencer will have a tough job ahead. Good luck to him~~

I love my Xbox One and hope the situation can be changed...

 

[Vashetti]

If a certain subset of XBox fans had their way we'd all be dyslexic.

Don't read too much into this post.

 

[Tsundere]

The countries the XB1 has yet to launch in will not add any significant numbers. The XB1 is already out in territories where the vast, vast bulk if its life time sales will come from.

If I'm being very generous, launching in the other territories will add another 400K-500k in XB1 sales.

And considering MS is losing in its strongest market (USA) consistently, and even after their heavy hitter "fell", I'm surprised people think T2 will have any significant impact on sales.

 

[mrklaw]

Phil Spencer will have a tough job ahead. Good luck to him~~

I love my Xbox One and hope the situation can be changed...

its good for everyone, assuming MS wants to fight. They'll need to pretty much do a PS3 - reduce price dramatically, and invest long term in building their first party teams to bring great exclusive software.

otherwise they're fucked.

 

[Coolwhip]

So, nowadays, the hardwares in the gaming industry:

PS4: Phenomenal
Xbox One: Not good
Wii U: doomed
Xbox360: declining
PS3: declining
Wii: dead
PSVita: Not good
PSP: dead
3DS: mediocre
NDS: dead
Ouya: in the hell

We need Apple, Google and Amazon to save us...

I would change PS4 to "Great so far" as I expect the sales to drop off pretty badly myself.

 

[Yopis]

They went cheap in the wrong direction with Xbone. Most likely this is the excuse they need to exit the HW market down the road. OG Xbox they cut short. 360 they used cheap parts (red ring) and gave up during the second half of It's life. Xbone they built cheap system (weak gpu) with focus in everything but gaming.

Had a blast with 360.

 

[Interfectum]

I will explain you why:

So in the same time Sony was selling to customers 1 million, Microsoft was selling 400k... to retailers.

Yup. The Xbox One demand is weak not because of price or games or Kinect, it's consumer apathy. Most people just don't care about it. You have the hardcore console gamers circling the wagons around PS4 and seemingly not much excitement or interest in the industry beyond that. Seems like a market poised for being upended in the next couple years.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

This.

Reading through the doom and gloom when it comes it Xbox is just painful to read time and time again.

About as painful to read as the argument made by people who don't realize where the bulk of the sales of the 360 came from in the past few years and continue to bring the "more markets" argument into the mix.

 

[BigSpleenRupture]

I would change PS4 to "Great so far" as I expect the sales to drop off pretty badly myself.

Disagree, ps4 has a rosy outlook imo.

 

[dantevsninjas]

It will not have to. The xbox is still strong competition, while at the same time failing enough for Microsoft to try better next time.

And even if MS totally fails, Amazon and Valve are preparing to take it's place. They already bared their fangs.

Amazon released a better Ouya, and Steam Boxes are going to hit a really niche market for the forseeable future.

Apparently console cycles only last 6 months to a year now. Both consoles have sold well, and although the XB1 hasn't hit the numbers MS hoped it would, it's by no means doomed. Was the PS3 doomed last gen? Sony managed to rebound from an incredibly shitty launch, and by the end of it's life cycle the PS3 had become a great platform. This will be a competitive gen, and that will be good for everyone. Chill with all the doom and gloom people.

 

[Majmun]

I would change PS4 to "Great so far" as I expect the sales to drop off pretty badly myself.

The Ps4 is now selling really well with "no games" out.

I don't think the sales will go down after some big games get released. I'm expecting Watch_Dogs, for example, to keep the demand still high.

 

[MormaPope]

Yup. The Xbox One demand is weak not because of price or games or Kinect, it's consumer apathy. Most people just don't care about it. You have the hardcore console gamers circling the wagons around PS4 and seemingly not much excitement or interest in the industry beyond that. Seems like a market poised for being upended in the next couple years.

And what caused that apathy?

Raised price due to kinect, no earth shattering exclusives (so far on both Xbone and PS4), and a lack of notable game releases in general.

 

[Dreamgazer]

I would argue that Yusuf Mehdi was probably just as responsible for the initial vision as Mattrick was.

Of the top Xbox executives, Spencer is the one who comes off the best because he handled his responsibilities rather well.

I honestly don't get the Yusuf Mehdi hate or the overenthusiastic Spencer love.
We know nothing of either party's involvement in the initial vision.

Mehdi unfortunately has to get the short end of the stick just because he's not the "games guy."

 

[PanicFreak]

E3 announcement of an Xbox One ET Bundle.

Thus the real reason they are looking for the ET landfill comes out.

 

[Interfectum]

Amazon released a better Ouya, and Steam Boxes are going to hit a really niche market for the forseeable future.

Apparently console cycles only last 6 months to a year now. Both consoles have sold well, and although the XB1 hasn't hit the numbers MS hoped it would, it's by no means doomed. Was the PS3 doomed last gen? Sony managed to rebound from an incredibly shitty launch, and by the end of it's life cycle the PS3 had become a great platform. This will be a competitive gen, and that will be good for everyone. Chill with all the doom and gloom people.

In today's market the PS3 would probably not have bounced back. A lot has changed since then.

 

[Dinjooh]

The Ps4 is now selling really well with "no games" out.

I don't think the sales will go down after some big games get released. I'm expecting Watch_Dogs, for example, to keep the demand still high.

Yup. Watch_Dogs is pretty much the only game that most of my friends know is about to hit PS4 outside of the major 3rd party hits. How Ubi managed to gain mindshare with the mainstream gamer that quick is beyond me.

 

[shinra-bansho]

drawing down of inventory just means they want to have less surplus in retail stores.
Which means they have too much stock in retail right now.
Which means they've shipped too much
which means they'll ship less
which means they'll either need to produce less (sensible) or pile 'em high in warehouses (possible but expensive)

so you're right, it doesn't necessarily mean slowing or stopping production - and in fact they might not be able to even if they wanted - its still quite soon after launch. But that would be the fiscally prudent thing to do.

I don't actually think the 800K or whatever they have in the retail channel is actually that severe. Although the continental European channel might be more stuffed I imagine.

I also don't think Microsoft are completely stupid and didn't expect sales to slow down a) post-holiday and b) in the Summer months which are always slow and in which they don't really have major releases, and that reduction in shipments in these times wouldn't be factored into their production already.

On the prudent decision, that seems like it would depend on what kind of expenses they would incur to significantly alter production levels - if that was actually required.

 

[Salvor.Hardin]

The Ps4 is now selling really well with "no games" out.

I don't think the sales will go down after some big games get released. I'm expecting Watch_Dogs, for example, to keep the demand still high.

Are gamers actually excited for Watch Dogs? Destiny hype I can understand. But Watch Dogs looks so incredibly uninspired and dull.

 

[BigSpleenRupture]

Are gamers actually excited for Watch Dogs? Destiny hype I can understand. But Watch Dogs looks so incredibly uninspired and dull.

Watchdogs is going to be huge....Game forums, and neogaf are a miniscule portion of gamers and pretty irrelevant in the scheme of things. Pre-ordrs for wd are big.

 

[Tsundere]

Are gamers actually excited for Watch Dogs? Destiny hype I can understand. But Watch Dogs looks so incredibly uninspired and dull.

Sure why not? If people can get excited for games like Putty Squad or Kinect Sports Rivals, I'm sure there will be some who are excited for Watch Dogs.

 

[MormaPope]

Are gamers actually excited for Watch Dogs? Destiny hype I can understand. But Watch Dogs looks so incredibly uninspired and dull.

GTA VI and Red Dead 2 will definitely be system sellers on both sides. Of course that has nothing to do with this year, but when those games launch console sales will spike.

 

[Dirtyshubb]

Are gamers actually excited for Watch Dogs? Destiny hype I can understand. But Watch Dogs looks so incredibly uninspired and dull.

From what I have seen watchdogs is THE game non hardcore gamers are looking forward to, I have friends who game but don't really follow the industry much yet they are all pumped for Wd.

 

[Interfectum]

And what caused that apathy?

Raised price due to kinect, no earth shattering exclusives (so far on both Xbone and PS4), and a lack of notable game releases in general.

The makers of Modern Warfare released an "earth shattering" exclusive on Xbox One with millions in advertising, fantastic reviews, bundles and price drops. It barely moved the needle. That shows weakness. Maybe Halo and Gears can pick up the slack but I don't see it doing much besides selling to people who were already interested in buying Xbox One in the first place.

 

[CaptainTiptop]

So Kinect-less Xbone is actually gonna happen, right?

C'mon, son. I love my Vita, but that shit is deader than dead. Sony killed it via neglect.

Neglect? They announced three first-party titles coming to the West recently. Granted, they're localisations, but only one of them was already out in Japan.