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MS HoloLens

Has this PC gamer impressions article been posted here?
http://www.pcgamer.com/microsoft-hololens-hands-on-the-promise-and-disappointment-of-ar/

It's not quite as ecstatic as some other reports:
Microsoft’s HoloLens, in its current form, only projects an AR image onto your eyes in a rectangular area in the center of your field of vision. If AR was baseball, HoloLens would basically be hitting the strike zone—but we have a whole lot of vision outside of that zone, and it’s disappointingly limiting to see these “holograms” in such a small portion of our field of view. On Mars, for example, I’d have to look around to see more of the surface in my small rectangular vision zone, while my eyes were distracted by the walls of the demo room outside of that area.

It’s not immersive at all. I understand that NASA values the software for utility, not immersion, but while I was looking around, I couldn’t help but think how much better standing on the surface of Mars would’ve been in the Oculus Rift.
 
I don't get this obsession with "enhancing TV". With both VR and AR, TV is obsolete.

Not even slightly. Epecially so with VR.

Things like projecting rear view/wing mirrors around tv screens in driving games or replicating triple screen gaming while using only one monitor would definitely be a thing for me.

Even things like removing the hud from the game screen in a racing game and creating a virtual dashboard in front of me around my racing wheel while viewing the actual game on the TV/monitor.......*drools*

The fidelity of the projected image still suffers a lot in VR so far and maybe so in AR too. High quality viewing screens arent going away just yet.
 
Damn I completely missed this. Looks f'ing amazing though.

Looks like I'll be getting Oculus, Morpheus and this eventually. Goodnight sweet bank account.
 
From a gaming perspective this could be very interesting, what MS have done is actually pretty brave. Considering that Morpheus, Oculus and other VR headsets could share similar libraries of games whereas HoloLens would largely require bespoke experiences. In that sense it might be in their best interest to downplay the gaming side a bit for now.
I'm both genuinely happy and cautious about this tech at the same time.
 
Imagine playing Halo on you're TV/Monitor and having the Spartan HUD displayed on your hologlass. It would remove the HUD from the TV space so less clutter and more immersion. Also, imagine hit markers, ADS, waypoints, weather affects like rain and frost, shield regen, blood spatter, sneezes...

halo-5-guardians-beta-11-01-16.jpg


The wait is killing me.
This is exactly what I've been waiting for!
 
From what i've seen i guess we still have to wait at least fall 2016 for a consumer release, plus the price is likely to be over 300$, considering that it has it's own CPU/GPU, special lens, OS ecc, so not that cheap for avarage consumers. We'll have to wait still a lot before see what it'll really be like, but it'll be worth the wait in my opinion.
 
Both systems can render the same type of game, but both handle the situations differently. Both approaches can allow a player to walk around an object and see things from different angles. However the more natural approach is that you just move your head to do this or get up and look around it like the real world. VR requires you to use a controller of some kind to simulate this action, or at least some of the movement required.
Except this is exactly where AR becomes more limiting in other ways. You cannot recreate anything in AR to look at and around. You can only recreate what you can fit in your room and your FoV. Potentially, the scope will broaden, but of course if you want to recreate anything large, you'll need to go outside. And suddenly the whole argument that it can enhance TV or whatever goes out the window. Literally. It will still be cool stuff, but any potentially *really* great applications for gaming and whatnot is going to be a long way off.

The way i see it, both systems need to be fed data from somewhere, however MS has additional processing power in the device itself as it's untethered. To be honest AR is where I was expecting nintendo to go. Far greater potential to reach people interested in using it. To this day VR has always been cool in my mind, but I never sought it out.As soon as I saw what cold be done with AR games ( before the MS announcement) that convinced me that it has a greater chance of being wide spread
By the time AR is practical and powerful enough to be 'widespread', VR will have grown quite a bit, too, realizing more of its potential and probably gaining many AR capabilities as well. I don't think its going to be as much of a 'vs' thing as you think.

I don't think TV is obsolete either. If you pay for an 80 inch 4k tv, why switch to a vr headsets that is a fraction of the resolution? For me, all the things that could be done with illumiroom to make your home environment a part to the game could be done with AR in a much more convincing manner. It can make your standard gaming exp better imo, not only different.
I think, again, the point is that if AR is advanced enough that it can do these things that you envision, there probably wont be much need for traditional TV's anymore because you'll be able to create your own TV in AR. Wherever you want. However big you want. Locked to a plane or floating but locked to your head movement.

And it shouldn't be impossible that you could 'sync' content between users so you can all still be watching the same thing.

TV may still have a place, who knows. Its never possible to accurately predict how much technology will actually change our lives. But personally, I feel that if VR and AR start to gain in popularity and become advanced enough, TV's, as we know them now, are going to feel a lot more limiting and outdated. This would be a ways off, of course. I'm not talking within the next 10-20 years even. But I mean even now, for me, after having tried VR, I sometimes sit and look at what I'm watching and playing and feel a little bit frustrated at just how lacking it really is.
 
I like the idea of an AR headset, but not as much as I like the idea of a VR one (especially after seeing the elite dangerous demos). If they can mix the two together than fantastic, if they can't then I'd rather have a rift or equivalent.
 
The way I see it, AR can render things you wouldn't or could see on a standard TV for a game (hence augmented). VR renders exactly what you would see on a TV. Like the ideas for buds or way points, or the dash of a car in a racing game. Some really interesting ideas in this thread.
 
I like the idea of an AR headset, but not as much as I like the idea of a VR one (especially after seeing the elite dangerous demos). If they can mix the two together than fantastic, if they can't then I'd rather have a rift or equivalent.

In my opinion VR and microsoft holograms are 2 completely different things, and they're both cool
 
The way I see it, AR can render things you wouldn't or could see on a standard TV for a game (hence augmented). VR renders exactly what you would see on a TV.
I honestly don't even understand what you are trying to say here :(

VR has nothing at all to do with a TV. It's all in the name: it renders a virtual reality.
 
The way I see it, AR can render things you wouldn't or could see on a standard TV for a game (hence augmented). VR renders exactly what you would see on a TV. Like the ideas for buds or way points, or the dash of a car in a racing game. Some really interesting ideas in this thread.

Umm... I'm not sure what you're trying to say, VR can do the same things and even more other things.
 
The way I see it, AR can render things you wouldn't or could see on a standard TV for a game (hence augmented). VR renders exactly what you would see on a TV. Like the ideas for buds or way points, or the dash of a car in a racing game. Some really interesting ideas in this thread.

What would be the advantage of having dash-less perspective being rendered on your TV and having AR render the dash on top of that, as opposed to just rendering the whole thing on the TV already, as it's done in racing games currently?

No only there would hardly be any benefit, it will also be a lot more work to have the two perfectly in sync, both spatially and temporally.
 
Now imagine a Metroid Prime style game where you're the one with the arm cannon and you actually see modifications being made to your suit in first person.

Alternatively: getting infected by the Flood in first person.

Double Alternatively: Something along the lines of Halo 3 ODST's intro in first-person!
 
I honestly don't even understand what you are trying to say here :(

VR has nothing at all to do with a TV. It's all in the name: it renders a virtual reality.

what do you mean? VR as its current setup with occulus and such, a small TV for each eye. Everything that would be traditionally rendered with a television or monitor.
 
Actually, the dataset doesn't increase depending on the complexity of the environment. The resolution of the sensors is fixed and so the size of the point cloud is also fixed. It might make recognition less effective however. Though, you don't need significant accuracy for this. Just a basic idea of where a surface might be is enough.

Has this PC gamer impressions article been posted here?
http://www.pcgamer.com/microsoft-hololens-hands-on-the-promise-and-disappointment-of-ar/

It's not quite as ecstatic as some other reports:

Is it well understood how microsoft are seemingly able to accurately track the position of virtual objects so well in relation to multiple points of view?
I don't have a lot of knowledge about what's achievable in this area but was under the impression that this was a problem that hasn't been fully solved yet.
 
Ms was saying this thing had 120 degree field of view. Can anyone simulate how that would look from a eye perspective? I'm on my phone so it would be difficult to make a diagram.
 
Has this PC gamer impressions article been posted here?
http://www.pcgamer.com/microsoft-hololens-hands-on-the-promise-and-disappointment-of-ar/

It's not quite as ecstatic as some other reports:
Their opinion, while I do not doubt close to what they experienced doesn't really add to the discussion, though it underlines some of the limitations of Microsoft's current setup which I would have expected.
Ultimately though they are making the mistake of looking for Oculus where the intent is not that. Even MS sees that hence they decided to instead of focusing on games like they did with MS to pay more on the utility value of this device which is very large.
Of course it can be used in both, but immersion is not the primary goal at this point with this device.

what do you mean? VR as its current setup with occulus and such, a small TV for each eye. Everything that would be traditionally rendered with a television or monitor.
AR is the same, only that the rendered image is super-imposed in the real world.
VR, AR, and current displays (both HMDs like Oculus and traditional displays) are different things. And there is a ridiculous number of ways to go about either VR and AR.

Is it well understood how microsoft are seemingly able to accurately track the position of virtual objects so well in relation to multiple points of view?
I don't have a lot of knowledge about what's achievable in this area but was under the impression that this was a problem that hasn't been fully solved yet.
They can't do this at the moment afaik, which is a large limitation in their current setup, so only 1 person can currently interact with the world you are seeing. It's a fairly difficult hurdle to solve at the moment.
 
Ms was saying this thing had 120 degree field of view. Can anyone simulate how that would look from a eye perspective? I'm on my phone so it would be difficult to make a diagram.

120 degrees would be the field of view of the depth sensors, not the viewing angle for simulated data.

They can't do this at the moment afaik, which is a large limitation in their current setup, so only 1 person can currently interact with the world you are seeing. It's a fairly difficult hurdle to solve at the moment.

What they showed on stage implies that they can do it. In theory it's not that hard, the base requirement for AR is to locate the user's point of view in absolute coordinates. For multiple users, you need to make sure they're both using the same absolute coordinates system, so have the same landmarks. If there is a recognizable object in both points of view it should be possible, at least with a manual initialization.
 
They can't do this at the moment afaik, which is a large limitation in their current setup, so only 1 person can currently interact with the world you are seeing. It's a fairly difficult hurdle to solve at the moment.

All of their PR material seems to suggest they can at least track a virtual object from multiple angles simultaneously, if not interact with it.
 
Not the point I was making. Can you explain how VR is different from a standard TV or monitor (other then having stereoscopic screen closer to your eyes)? Perhaps I'm missing something...
I don't think anybody is saying that 'displays' are going anywhere. Televisions are a very specific type of display with a known and definable function. We're talking this particular type of display, not all displays.

And about how VR is different - its the optics. The way you're making it sound, you seem to think VR is just like a 3D television put up close to your face or something. But the distortion of the image plus the optics basically wraps the image around your vision. You are given a real sense of depth and an encompassing FoV(well, as big as modern VR can practically make it). There really is no comparing it with watching a television.
 
The way I see it, AR can render things you wouldn't or could see on a standard TV for a game (hence augmented). VR renders exactly what you would see on a TV. Like the ideas for buds or way points, or the dash of a car in a racing game. Some really interesting ideas in this thread.
The two of them use somekind of display and render things on it, except one allow you to see through it. VR solution like the rift could also do AR but using cam in the front of the device.
 
Not the point I was making. Can you explain how VR is different from a standard TV or monitor (other then having stereoscopic screen closer to your eyes)? Perhaps I'm missing something...
It's absolutely, fundamentally different in effect, and also significantly different in execution (due to the optics involved).
What is actually a stereoscopic screen in front of your eyes is 3DHead, and it was rightfully laughed out of the house at CES.

Their opinion, while I do not doubt close to what they experienced doesn't really add to the discussion, though it underlines some of the limitations of Microsoft's current setup which I would have expected.
Actually, I think having a real assessment of the FoV of this device adds more to the discussion than most impressions I've read. I mean, I've expected a very small (comparatively) FoV since I saw the first pictures, but people were extremely skeptical of that assessment.
 
Not the point I was making. Can you explain how VR is different from a standard TV or monitor (other then having stereoscopic screen closer to your eyes)? Perhaps I'm missing something...
Intent. And input. Because the display is not static, it allows you to move your real body in the generated world and the changes will be reflected in what you see. A display is a display. How the image reaches your eyes is irrelevant. Ultimately all you are doing is generating light that enters people's eyes.
I am not quite sure what you are asking.
 
Imagine playing Halo on you're TV/Monitor and having the Spartan HUD displayed on your hologlass. It would remove the HUD from the TV space so less clutter and more immersion. Also, imagine hit markers, ADS, waypoints, weather affects like rain and frost, shield regen, blood spatter, sneezes...

halo-5-guardians-beta-11-01-16.jpg


The wait is killing me.

wow. can't wait for this.

Also, that also looks interesting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAqedT9mukY
 
Looks like the HoloLens will feature unrealeased Intel Atom. PCWorld did a feature on the chip http://www.pcworld.com/article/2874352/microsofts-hololens-uses-unreleased-intel-atom-chip.html

Microsoft hasn’t provided a specific availability date, but HoloLens will ship after Windows 10 becomes available later this year.

This makes it sound like its coming sometime soon. I wouldn't expect it anytime before 2017, honestly. Not in a proper commercial release, anyways.
 
what do you mean? VR as its current setup with occulus and such, a small TV for each eye. Everything that would be traditionally rendered with a television or monitor.

In normal TVs, the perspective of the camera (used to render the the scene) is usually dependent from the the TV watcher perspective. So it's like a camera (human eyes) looking at another camera (Camera of the scene)

In VR, you are the camera.
 
Although that video was super sweet and the potential is incredible for this device, what they've done with Kinect doesn't give me any confidence in them being able to tap into the potential of this. They basically gave up on Kinect 2.0 and im supposed to believe that this time, it'll be different. Honest guys!
 
What they showed on stage implies that they can do it. In theory it's not that hard, the base requirement for AR is to locate the user's point of view in absolute coordinates. For multiple users, you need to make sure they're both using the same absolute coordinates system, so have the same landmarks. If there is a recognizable object in both points of view it should be possible, at least with a manual initialization.
Establishing that these are the same object and synchronising different point clouds without knowing the relative position of the two points of capture is non-trivial problem on its own.
It can be solved, but knowing the position of the 2 headsets is imperative but then synchronisation remains difficult.

All of their PR material seems to suggest they can at least track a virtual object from multiple angles simultaneously, if not interact with it.
I would not put much credence to anything you saw on stage. Based on the demos we have the technology only works with 1 user at present.
Actually, are you talking about mutiple users interacting with the same object, or just tracking objects from several perspectives?

Actually, I think having a real assessment of the FoV of this device adds more to the discussion than most impressions I've read. I mean, I've expected a very small (comparatively) FoV since I saw the first pictures, but people were extremely skeptical of that assessment.
Oh sure, it's a very important piece of information. What I question is PC Gamer's perspective and thoughts about it breaking immersion.
 
I would not put much credence to anything you saw on stage. Based on the demos we have the technology only works with 1 user at present.
Actually, are you talking about mutiple users interacting with the same object, or just tracking objects from several perspectives?

For the moment just tracking from multiple perspectives in a manner that is consistent with what you'd expect to see in real life.
As this image suggests:

MicrosoftHMD_1.png
 
Actually, I think having a real assessment of the FoV of this device adds more to the discussion than most impressions I've read. I mean, I've expected a very small (comparatively) FoV since I saw the first pictures, but people were extremely skeptical of that assessment.

That is not the first article stating that the FoV is small; many other articles stated as such. He is the first to have a rather negative opinion of the piece while comparing it to OR.

I personally don't see the point in comparing it to OR; different devices targeting different experience, overlaps not withstanding. What he has found to be a negative, others have made a note of while also noting the positives of the device.

Anyway, this is the first iteration of the device, and its not launching in the market tomorrow, just like the first iteration of OR is nothing compared to what it is now, never mind what it will be at launch.

I am personally happy that both fields are making good progress.
 
Establishing that these are the same object and synchronising different point clouds without knowing the relative position of the two points of capture is non-trivial problem on its own.
It can be solved, but knowing the position of the 2 headsets is imperative but then synchronisation remains difficult.

That's why I was suggesting a manual initialization if necessary. "Click" on an object once to mark it as a common reference, maybe resolve a rotation ambiguity, and once that's done both headsets will do their thing and estimate their position in the same coordinates system (you could also use the usual card with a QR code on it).
The synchronization part is then not different from a regular multiplayer game.
 
I love the potential of Hololens. There is so much that it can be used for, one of them for gaming. The pic of Halo 5 just made me wept, i miss it so much....
 
That's why I was suggesting a manual initialization if necessary. "Click" on an object once to mark it as a common reference, maybe resolve a rotation ambiguity, and once that's done both headsets will do their thing and estimate their position in the same coordinates system (you could also use the usual card with a QR code on it).
The synchronization part is then not different from a regular multiplayer game.

I wondered about the best way to go about this myself. The most straightforward approach seems to be to determine the position and orientation of the object at the moment it is being created. Use gesture information to compute an offset relative to the GPS position and magnetic orientation (as well as additional local sensor data to increase resolution) of the person who "puts" the object in the physical world for the first time, since it's reasonable to assume they put it where they intend it to be. After that, store the absolute position (GPS, magnetic, etc) of the object (calculated with the user position and the offset) offline as metadata for that object. Update the metadata as necessary each time that object is accessed, just like you would with any data.

Accuracy is the issue, obviously.
 
Microsoft hasn’t provided a specific availability date, but HoloLens will ship after Windows 10 becomes available later this year.

This makes it sound like its coming sometime soon. I wouldn't expect it anytime before 2017, honestly. Not in a proper commercial release, anyways.

Probably right about that, I take "within the Windows 10 timeframe" as it'll be ready when it's ready. After seeing the new mobile tech from Intel at CES 2015, it's nice to know that MS is working with them. The fact that this wasn't addressed had me worried MS was going proprietary, which would have all but confirmed the Hololens as novelty wear.
 
In my opinion VR and microsoft holograms are 2 completely different things, and they're both cool


I agree. There's no point in arguing which is better imo because they're not competing with each other. They are so very different I can see people wanting both for what they have to offer. Personally, I can see AR becoming a bit more mainstream because of the fact you're not isolated from the world and the promise of being untethered. That being said they will both be great and excel at their respective goals.
 
I wondered about the best way to go about this myself. The most straightforward approach seems to be to determine the position and orientation of the object at the moment it is being created. Use gesture information to compute an offset relative to the GPS position and magnetic orientation (as well as additional local sensor data to increase resolution) of the person who "puts" the object in the physical world for the first time, since it's reasonable to assume they put it where they intend it to be. After that, store the absolute position (GPS, magnetic, etc) of the object (calculated with the user position and the offset) offline as metadata for that object. Update the metadata as necessary each time that object is accessed, just like you would with any data.

Accuracy is the issue, obviously.

Well, yes, and that's why you can't use GPS and magnetic orientation for that. The accuracy of those is measured in meters, when you need millimeters for AR applications.
The way AR usually works is using elements of the environment as landmarks, and estimate all positions relatively to those. Some use RGB cameras for that (with or without QR-cards to make it easier), the Hololens probably relies on depth information instead.

Let's say two AR users want to play holo-chess sitting at the same table for example. Player1 will look at the table and his headset will think "ok here's a nice plane object to track, let's say that corner is (0,0,0), that border is X, so Y is that way and Z that way". The game engine will draw its 3D objects in "table coordinates", and the headset of Player1 will constantly update its position relatively to the table, and render the chessboard accordingly.
When Player2 enters, his headset will know the game is using "some kind of plane corner" as reference. Either it's smart enough to recognize the table by itself, or it will need to be initialized ("hey I'm looking for Player1's table corner, is that it ?"). Anyway once it's done, it will be able to estimate its own position in "table coordinates" too. From now on, both headsets will keep doing their own things, and all changes in the virtual game world will translate to "table coordinates" which they're both using.
 
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