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[Dictator93]

True story, if you look closely you can even see the 30hz scan lines.

 

[Metal-Geo]

Find another friend who believes in 30fps, and always have them around each other. Dual friends for maximum performance.

 

[CouchMaster]

While some human brains are decidedly mediocre.

That's true, which is why we're having this debate

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

Lots of neuroscientists in this thread, it seems. No need to mock the guy, people.

Besides, FPS is not a relevant term for vision anyway. I'm no scientist, but the eye doesn't process frames discretely like a monitor or television.

bingo.

being able to notice flicker on a pc monitor even suggests your eye is able to discern between a frame and the act of a new one being drawn. but just to be safe, i hereby claim the idea of having v-sync enabled contact lenses.

 

[Votron]

I'm still surprised no one has posted a 30 v 60fps gif/webm

 

[legacyzero]

This. Or Resident Evil 4 on PC, toggling between 30 and 60 FPS. If you can't see the difference between them, you may need to update your eye drivers.

"Eye Drivers".

LOL

 

[Catdaddy]

My framerate drops when I go outside, especially when I stare at the sun....

 

[Sanctuary]

I know right?! But then, he kind of made me uncertain. He explained it as this: The human eye has a response-time of 30hz, where everything completely in sync with this would look completely smooth (if it has motion blur and so forth) but that we perceive higher framerates better because it means there's more information leading to a smaller chance of your eye getting out of sync with the video.

He's been teasing me for a while for being somewhat PC-masterrace, and he told me this when I remarked to DayZ looking really choppy on his PC.

I'm kind of stumped, I want to prove him wrong but I seem to not find any good sources that can disprove him.

Although he does say it's just a placebo effect from becoming an elitist blind to NeoGAF's words... It kind of pissed me off... I tried to explain how higher framerates lead to better reponsetime and smoother gameplay, but he just mocked me.

LMAO. What would really blow his mind is if you took him to see either of The Hobbit movies (and should probably do it with the upcoming one) that are displayed with the HFR cameras (48fps). If he doesn't notice how much "different" it seems, then he might have a neurological disorder. You can easily tell too simply by going to a local Wal-Mart and looking at TV sets that are displaying the same shows, but one is 60hz and one is 120hz.

Some friends and I that watched The Desolation of Smaug hated the effect so much that it ruined our first viewing. It was a much better experience watching it at 24fps when it arrived on Blu-ray. This isn't agruing for or against more frames in games, only that for movies it looked fucking awful, yet Jackson is pushing for it to become the standard.

 

[Slayer-33]

Compare a 30fps gif and a 60fps one of real footage and lets see if there's no difference. Show it to him..

 

[Sanctuary]

Regardless, we aren't even seeing "frames" anyway, we are perceiving the fluidity of motion. According to this, we perceive reality at a rate somewhere between 24 fps and 48 fps.

http://movieline.com/2012/12/14/hobbit-high-frame-rate-science-48-frames-per-second/

HOW OUR BRAINS PERCEIVE REALITY
James Kerwin: “Studies seem to show that most humans see about 66 frames per second — that’s how we see reality through our eyes, and our brains. So you would think that 48 frames per second is sufficiently below that — that it would look very different from reality. But what people aren’t taking into account is the fact that although we see 66 frames per second, neuroscientists and consciousness researchers are starting to realize that we’re only consciously aware of 40 moments per second.”

 

[BibiMaghoo]

Your friend is a special kind of stupid OP. The kind that doesn't have any idea they are stupid, and so perpetuate stupid things to other stupid people and thus, the world is doomed. The end times will come about from this, in 60fps.

 

[SomedayTheFire]

You friend is very very dumb.

 

[scoobidoo112]

My eyes disagree:

http://30vs60.com

http://www.30vs60fps.com/

http://www.digitalstormonline.com/unlocked/30-fps-vs-60-fps-gameplay-there-is-a-difference-idnum255/

 

[Goodacre0081]

and another

http://boallen.com/fps-compare-html5.html

 

[Sanctuary]

He probably taught you a lot of bullshit.

Must have taught them enough to question the validity of his claims. So that's something right?

 

[StalkerUKCG]

Yo what.

The eye has been proven to see at least at "220 frames per second".

I think they did tests on pilots and found they could spot an object in 1 of 400 frames per second.

 

[Goodacre0081]

the gap between 15 and 30 is very noticeable, 30/60 less so.

how about the difference between 60 and 90?

 

[QuantumZebra]

Does your friend work at IGN?

 

[StalkerUKCG]

Find another friend who believes in 30fps, and always have them around each other. Dual friends for maximum performance.

Is this like SLI'ing buddies? Neat tactic. Personally I'd go for one intelligent friend to last me the generation but each to their own.

 

[Dr. Black Jack]

you guys must be a blast at parties

 

[injurai]

I know for a fact I can tell the difference between 60 and 120 fps.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

First of all, it's the brain that's "limited", not the eyes. The eyes receive information much faster than the brain usually processes information, however the rate its processed is not fixed. That's why people who have gone through intense situations such as falling great heights or being in a shootout often describe everything as slowing down - the amount of visual information the brain processes in such situations often increases greatly.

Secondly, it's not a digital process. As others have said, the brain doesn't process visual information in discrete frames. When scientists talk about the framerate of the human eye, it's not a literal framerate, but rather a very rough equivalency. They're really just saying that a human fully processes the amount of visual information available in an amount equivalent to video of a certain framerate. The actual difference in smoothness can still be perceived due to the non-discrete processing, there's just not anymore significant information being gathered.

 

[Rolf NB]

"The eye" does not make snapshots. Human vision is a continuous integration process. A single photon stimulating a receptor at one moment and then never again is perceptible.

 

[RiverBed]

I know right?!

No, you don't know- which is why you started this thread/topic. (and no, nothing negative about that).

I'm kind of stumped

Knowledge helps in that regard.

Your friend doesn't know what he's talking about.

Time for a new friend?

your friend needs to upgrade his eyeballs

My eyes are a lie then.

lol he is an idiot

ridiculous

Slap your friend.

friend must see an eye doctor

These are the kind of responses that really discourage me from thinking that I can have a *gasp* discussion. Responses that try to be funny rather than productive or even meaningful to the conversation, etc. Not every single post and topic *you* see is a chance for you to be funny for strangers.

...

Are you fucking kidding me?! The fuck is wrong with you?!

 

[injurai]

"The eye" does not make snapshots. Human vision is a continuous integration process. A single photon stimulating a receptor at one moment and then never again is perceptible.

this, but I enjoy watching people degrade their intelligence in order to win their fanboy war

 

[CambriaRising]

There are the kind of responses that really discourage me from thinking that I can have a *gasp* discussion. Responses that try to be funny rather than productive or even meaningful to the conversation, etc. Not every single post and topic *you* see is a chance for you to be funny for strangers.

...

What discussion is to be had here? His friend is wrong. 100%

 

[Davey Cakes]

Tell him to play TLOU Remastered, and switch back and fourth between the 30 FPS lock, and 60.

That'll shut him up.

Or Mario Kart 8. Play 1-player then switch to 3-player.

The difference is staggering.

 

[Thoraxes]

Maybe your friend is actually a cyborg with low refresh rates on his eye cameras.

 

[Sanctuary]

the gap between 15 and 30 is very noticeable, 30/60 less so.

how about the difference between 60 and 90?

No idea about 60 - 90, but it's really drastic going from 60 - 120. You can see this for yourself at a local Wal-Mart.

*Actually not sure if the sets are truly displaying a full 120fps. They are marketed as being able to display framerates that fast, and there's a huge difference between standard 30/60fps sets and those when displaying the same content. I'll definitely never be buying one for watching movies/series.

 

[Village]

Yo what.

The eye has been proven to see at least at "220 frames per second".

I think we can see even more than that, it just requires other functions to be inactive

 

[FaintColt388301]

Make a video that is 60fps and in the extra 30 frames that can't be detected have frames of naked men. Either he is wrong or his eyes like the look of undressed men so much they became more powerful.

 

[justjustin]

The human eye has a response-time of 30hz... we perceive higher framerates better because it means there's more information leading to a smaller chance of your eye getting out of sync with the video.

... I tried to explain how higher framerates lead to better reponsetime and smoother gameplay, but he just mocked me.

Logically, your friend should agree with you. Higher framerates means there's a smaller chance the video desyncs from our 30fps eyes, so that leads to better response time and smoother gameplay. He already admits there's a difference and we can perceive variable framerates.

It's an absurd understanding, but it doesn't contradict your argument either. He has to explain why higher refresh rates that can sync better with our eyes is somehow worse.

 

[Falk]

In a more uncivilized time where men had to hunt or go hungry, your friend would have been at a severe disadvantage in preserving his lineage.

 

[JMizzlin]

A customer once told me he didn't believe in surround sound because we only have two ears.

 

[Sanctuary]

A customer once told me he didn't believe in surround sound because we only have two ears.

You should explain to him what it means to have binaural hearing...
Or just play Marco Polo with him.

 

[typho]

Logically, your friend should agree with you. Higher framerates means there's a smaller chance the video desyncs from our 30fps eyes, so that leads to better response time and smoother gameplay. He already admits there's a difference and we can perceive variable framerates.

It's an absurd understanding, but it doesn't contradict your argument either. He has to explain why higher refresh rates that can sync better with our eyes is somehow worse.

Precisely. Even though he appears to have some incorrect information about the topic, I still don't understand where the disagreement lies.

So, assuming the OP's friend's premise is true, there's a chance a 30 FPS video can become "out-of-sync" with my eyes? That sounds unpleasant.

 

[KyleCross]

I'm legally blind in an eye and I see the difference.

I can't see 3D tho.

 

[Seance]

lol

 

[gai_shain]

I heard his dad also works at Nintendo and already got to play The last Guardian

 

[Canis lupus]

"Tests with Air force pilots have shown, that they could identify the plane on a flashed picture that was flashed only for 1/220th of a second."

http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_can_humans_see.htm

 

[lupinko]

I'm tempted to show him this thread, but at the same time as he does drive me crazy at times, he is still a great friend who has been there for me, who has taught me a lot, who has made me a much better person.

Hmmmm...

If that's the case then just ignore it going forward.

 

[TylerDurden4321]

That http://30vs60.com site really chose some bad scenes from mostly the wrong games. You can see it way better during very quick mouse turns in very fast paced shooters. CoD or even better something old-schoolish like Quake III Arena. Racing Games with in-cockpit vibrations from bumpy tarmac are good too. Also the down-sizing anti-alias helps canceling out how annoying 30fps really are in some games. Vids on sites need to be shown in native resolution (so run the game in 640x480 if you want your comparison video/gif to be in that resolution, dammit!)

That other comparison posted already, https://frames-per-second.appspot.com, is kind of unfair, but it helps to understand how severe the difference can be far better than the other link does.

 

[Daviii]

You and your friend live in the US right?

So fucking lucky. I live in Europe and my eyes see at 25fps.

:-(

 

[iNvid02]

print this out and hand it to him

 

[void666]

The difference between 30 and 60 fps is obvious.

Past 60 fps there's almost no difference (I can't see any, personally.)

Try a 120hz monitor.

 

[Calabi]

I think we'd have problems interacting with things and moving around if we could only perceive things this slowly. You'd miss lots of things. Reflex's wouldn't work. It would be a weird world. Has he explained what happens in between the frames or how our brains combine the frames?

 

[Jackben]

No, you don't know- which is why you started this thread/topic. (and no, nothing negative about that).

Knowledge helps in that regard.

These are the kind of responses that really discourage me from thinking that I can have a *gasp* discussion. Responses that try to be funny rather than productive or even meaningful to the conversation, etc. Not every single post and topic *you* see is a chance for you to be funny for strangers.

...

Are you fucking kidding me?! The fuck is wrong with you?!

And you're no better than any of the posts you quoted, because backseat modding adds nothing to this "discussion" either. Congrats.

 

[evilromero]

I hate when people say they can't see the difference.

Yes you can.

Detractors used to say this shit in the 90s when F-Zero X came out. The 60 FPS experience of that game was night and day obvious.

 

[Falk]

That http://30vs60.com site really chose some bad scenes from mostly the wrong games. You can see it way better during very quick mouse turns in very fast paced shooters. CoD or even better something old-schoolish like Quake III Arena. Racing Games with in-cockpit vibrations from bumpy tarmac are good too. Also the down-sizing anti-alias helps canceling out how annoying 30fps really are in some games. Vids on sites need to be shown in native resolution (so run the game in 640x480 if you want your comparison video/gif to be in that resolution, dammit!)

That other comparison posted already, https://frames-per-second.appspot.com, is kind of unfair, but it helps to understand how severe the difference can be far better than the other link does.

Thing that bugs me the most about FPS comparison sites is the tiny video sizes. The ability to perceive jerkiness in a motion is pretty much proportional to how fast something is moving across your field of vision. The effect is way more pronounced at full-screen than a thumbnail-sized image, and unless you game on a thumbnail, it matters a lot more than the comparison leads you to believe.

It makes just about as much sense as trying to do an A-B comparison on audio quality at ludicrously low listening levels.

 

[baphomet]

You're friend has no idea how the human body works.