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Natal allows Microsoft and Rare to be on the same page

vocab said:
Agreed. Rare thinks they can make a come back with Natal? Who are they kidding. They haven't made a good game since they were with Nintendo. Fuck, you would think Rare would just make a new HD BattleToads game, but nope, they just want to keep making crap.
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Banjo Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts was brilliant, they had to rush a bit due to deadlines and they had to cut a world because of Xbox 360 memory limitations which in turn changed the progression of the game, but still a damn good game. Viva Pinata and Kameo were ace too, the only title that's a bit 'eh' is Perfect Dark Zero. But that's because they had to port it in 12 months with incomplete devkits.

Who knows maybe with some experienced designers they'll be at the top of their game again. The tech is still there only the gameplay is lacking at times. And sadistic game design has always been their weakpoint.
 
vocab said:
Agreed. Rare thinks they can make a come back with Natal? Who are they kidding. They haven't made a good game since they were with Nintendo. Fuck, you would think Rare would just make a new HD BattleToads game, but nope, they just want to keep making crap.
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You haven't played any of their games from this generation, have you?
 
I feel like Rare's been running off of past glory this whole gen. Have they done anything worthwhile?

Edit: looking over the list I realize that Kameo was okay, and Banjoo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts looked like fun, I just never got around to it. Still, they've fallen a bit.
 
Rare seems to be a game-company combination of Gil from The Simpsons, Willy Loman and a gambling addict.

This time, I swear I'll do it right this time. I'll fix everything, it'll be just like it was, man.
 
cjelly said:
You haven't played any of their games from this generation, have you?
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Some of Banjo, and PDZ. I was not impressed. Banjo lost all of its exploration feel, and PDZ was probably one of the worst FPS games I have played this gen. The only other Rare game I would try is Grabbed by the Ghoulies just because the name is so Rare. I know it's shit, but still I would play it.
 
Banjo Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts is a gem. It's sad that so few around here really sunk their teeth into the final game. The demo did it no justice.

Banjo lost all of its exploration feel
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incorrect, Showdown Town was one of the best hub-worlds of this generation, thanks in huge part to the exploration and discovery.
 
cjelly said:
You haven't played any of their games from this generation, have you?
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As Johann so put it, if you can't have a success with a thirty minute weekly commercial I think you're doing something pretty special.
 
Rez said:
Banjo Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts is a gem. It's sad that so few around here really sunk their teeth into the final game. The demo did it no justice.
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Ugh, it was terrible. Showdown Town rocked, and so did the builder, but the missions were so fuckin boring.
 
Rez said:
incorrect, Showdown Town was one of the best hub-worlds of this generation, thanks in huge part to the exploration and discovery.
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They could've actually hid all the jiggies around showdown town and I wouldn't have complained.
 
Rez said:
incorrect, Showdown Town was one of the best hub-worlds of this generation, thanks in huge part to the exploration and discovery.
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I wasn't talking about the Hub, even though the Hub is very lack luster compared to the original Banjo. I'm talking about the levels. It feels more linear in a sense they make you go point a to point b with a mini map telling you where to go.
 
Son of Godzilla said:
Ugh, it was terrible. Showdown Town rocked, and so did the builder, but the missions were so fuckin boring.
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The missions were interesting. I can see why you found them boring, and it's a valid criticism, but I just loved the feeling of attempting a mission, failing, realizing what was wrong, going back to the garage, making a new vehicle specifically suited for the occasion, then testing it out and, hopefully, beating the mission with heaps of time to spare because of how great my vehicle was.

The only missions that I found to be truly terrible were the versus races (awful crash physics), but the trick was to get a huge distance between yourself and the rest of the competitors really early on, hence eliminating the issue. :lol

The game is flawed, yeah, but I just loved it.
 
Also people who say:
"Hurrr Rare was better back before they were bought by Microsoft!"

Rare actually made a bunch of LJN games. Including Nightmare on Elm Street(the AVGN hates this), The Amazing Spider-Man and more of those gems. :lol
 
I have yet to play one Rare game this gen, but...

but...


(-_-) for some reason they just seem so out of place with MS.

Rare is so "Hey giez, lets have fun with rainbows and make worlds with legos and stuff"
MS is so "FUCK NOOO, GRAB SOME GUNS, GET SOME EXTREME ACTION AND... YEAAAAH!"



there, I said it... forgive me
 
gerg said:
As Johann so put it, if you can't have a success with a thirty minute weekly commercial I think you're doing something pretty special.
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Well, Viva Pinata did sell over a million copies.

It was the second one that really bombed.
 
Epcott said:
I have yet to play one Rare game this gen, but...

but...


(-_-) for some reason they just seem so out of place with MS.

Rare is so "Hey giez, lets have fun with rainbows and make worlds with legos and stuff"
MS is so "FUCK NOOO, GRAB SOME GUNS, GET SOME EXTREME ACTION AND... YEAAAAH!"


there, I said it... forgive me
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Well that seems to be his point.

With Natal, Microsoft will presumably be targeting the casual/family friendly audience more than they have in the past and perhaps Rare's games will benefit from that extra marketing push.
 
vocab said:
Some of Banjo, and PDZ. I was not impressed. Banjo lost all of its exploration feel, and PDZ was probably one of the worst FPS games I have played this gen. The only other Rare game I would try is Grabbed by the Ghoulies just because the name is so Rare. I know it's shit, but still I would play it.
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Ok, so you haven't in fact played the games, which makes your earlier statement complete bollocks.
 
I really don't think they dropped the ball this gen quality wise.

I'll agree they fucked up pretty badly with PDZ but otherwise, they've steadily tried to do something else and put out good games:
  • Kameo was good, still looks great although it was a bit on the short side.
  • I found both Viva Pinatas very engrossing and spent awful amounts of time on both. My only gripe would be that VP 2 felt more like an add-on than a full blown sequel.
  • Banjo is clearly divisive but I really loved all the messing around and winning by thinking outside the box feels really good. Plus, I'm still of the opinion this is the best looking game on 360. That being said, I totally get how some people could feel betrayed or find the game just unappealing.
If anything, the current Rare kind of epitomizes Microsoft's spectacular inability to cater to more casual audiences, it feels like they're trying too hard and doing it wrong. Typically, Viva Pinata really looks like a kiddy game but quickly ends up as an incestuous breeding micro management simulation. With crunchy bits of cannibalism thrown in the middle for good measure.
In the end, it seems to me a classic franchise like Halo turns out to bring in way more non-gamers than any vivid talking animals game.

Back on topic, I can't shake the feeling Natal will follow that trend of failure in opening up to newer audiences.

edit: my bad, just saw the above post. The first VP didn't bomb. Then again, I guess bundling it helped a lot?
 
[Nintex] said:
Also people who say:
"Hurrr Rare was better back before they were bought by Microsoft!"

Rare actually made a bunch of LJN games. Including Nightmare on Elm Street(the AVGN hates this), The Amazing Spider-Man and more of those gems. :lol
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Those games are at least playable, but they are still LJN games. I'm pretty sure we are referring to the golden age. DKC 1,2,3. Golden eye/PD, Banjo etc. You get the point.

elrechazao said:
Ok, so you haven't in fact played the games, which makes your earlier statement complete bollocks.
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If you say so.
 
vocab said:
Those games are at least playable, but they are still LJN games. I'm pretty sure we are referring to the golden age. DKC 1,2,3. Golden eye/PD, Banjo etc. You get the
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funny how you know what games are playable when you haven't played them.
 
vocab said:
words.
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You said it dude not me. You've played 2 rare games this gen. You said they haven't made a good game since nintendo days. Then said you've played ... 2 of them this gen. You do the math buddy.
 
I still await the killer demo that will make me understand why MS is so heavily invested in Natal.

All I've seen so far are demo's that 'accurately map 48 points on your body', yet no real evidence of how this is going to be used within games. Burnout is great with no controller, but even better with a controller. Hopefully Rare has the answers.
 
Natal makes a lot more sense to me as aid to facilitate communication between Rare and MS than it ever did as a game controller. I'm glad Rare cleared that up for us.

Need to pass around some money hats so we can hear from somebody besides Rare and Peter M. about the wondrous potential of Natal.
 
Mac the KNife said:
21ky17b.jpg
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:lol Just perfect.
 
vocab said:
I wasn't talking about the Hub, even though the Hub is very lack luster compared to the original Banjo. I'm talking about the levels. It feels more linear in a sense they make you go point a to point b with a mini map telling you where to go.
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I'm glad they did that, since the worlds were always so fucking huge. I would've gotten lost if it wasn't for that little map.
 
Why people hate KI? I think is fair assume that the second part and Gold were shitty, but compare the first one to Primal Rage is insane, same goes for people who doesn´t know about "como breakers" and "defense breakers", is not like you could pull a killer como so easily.

The combo breaker system is flawed that´s for sure (combo execution / combo breaker balance) but still an innovative system with button linkers.
 
There's just too much Rare hate in this thread.

Clearly, Rare has been restricted by this partnership. Nintendo was lenient and gave them extensions time after time, and that enabled them to comfortably work at their own pace to develop what they want - and because of that, everything they touched turned to gold. Nintendo also had the perfect market to them: Banjo, Donkey Kong, Jet Force Gemini... they all go hand in hand with Mario, Zelda, and Metroid.

Microsoft's ethics just don't fit with what Rare became accustomed to, and their market is completely different. Lots of the key guys responsible for their AAA shooters have moved on, so they're not exactly in the best position with Microsoft's key "genre" (unlike they were with Nintendo's platformers). Of course Rare is feeling pressure. They're not easily able to churn out the games they're good making at without some marketing guy at Microsoft steering them in a direction that caters to somebody they're not used to making games for, or some niche that doesn't hugely deserve a lot of marketing/development dollars. They're a fish out of water; they're uncomfortable and confused, and unable to show their true colours in that kind of environment.

It's no coincidence that they went from one of the biggest developers to nothing whilst this transition was taking place.

Hopefully they'll feel more at place and able to deliver experiences they're good at, with an audience they're familiar with, by developing for Natal.
 
RARE need someone to tell them how to design good interfaces and slimline their mechanics and controls if they want to appeal to a broad audience.

Both Viva Pinata and Nuts and Bolts were needlessly complex games under the disguise of 'hey, everyone can play this!' graphics.
 
@Michan: Any and all problems relating to how Rare and Microsoft run themselves are exacerbated by the fact that the 360 does not have the audience that Rare were used to selling to on the Wii. And of course, this only becomes worse when your best chance at selling to that audience can't attract them in the first place.
 
legend166 said:
RARE need someone to tell them how to design good interfaces and slimline their mechanics and controls if they want to appeal to a broad audience.

Both Viva Pinata and Nuts and Bolts were needlessly complex games under the disguise of 'hey, everyone can play this!' graphics.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. My little cousin tried to play both and they were too complicated for him.
 
legend166 said:
RARE need someone to tell them how to design good interfaces and slimline their mechanics and controls if they want to appeal to a broad audience.

Both Viva Pinata and Nuts and Bolts were needlessly complex games under the disguise of 'hey, everyone can play this!' graphics.
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It's friggin RARE, they are nothing if not needlessly complex.
 
Their 2 new releases for Natal is their last chance to prove themselves to gamers, after this they're going to be shitbinned into the has been developer category if they don't deliver.

I own all their games this gen, and non of them are top tier. With Banjo Kart being a monstrosity, shopping kart racer with lego pieces, bad pacing, bad mission design, bad everything. Did anybody ever ask for THIS? No.

If they released what people really wanted, a good PDZ, a real platforming Banjo that didn't suck then they'd get the sales.
 
Rez said:
Showdown Town was one of the best hub-worlds of this generation, thanks in huge part to the exploration and discovery.
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I loved Showdown Town, but the rest of the game was a bit meh IMO. Some of the level design was pretty awful when trying to use a vehicle (Logbox, Terrarium of Terror). Jiggoseum was the only level I really liked. Most of the missions get repetitive as well. Even Tooie had a lot more variation there. Overall it wasn't a bad game though, but I wouldn't say it's among their better titles. I prefered Kameo this gen, wish there was a sequel or something.
 
I love rare and they are a perfect fit for natal. they will make natal.

edit any rare thread get hates, if viva, banjo, kameo was on the wii we would not be seeing this. those games are great just don't fit 360 market so they didn't sell that well. but they do fit wii market. doesn't mean the game is bad but they are more fit for the wii market and would sell much better their. and the same people saying rare lost it would be buying the same exact game if it was available exclusively on the wii.
 
xbhaskarx said:
I agree with this. My little cousin tried to play both and they were too complicated for him.
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I was confused for the first couple of hours of Viva Pinata. There's so many menus, so many things to read. The initial tutorial was very heavy, but then they left you all alone, despite introducing new mechanics.

It was a good game, but in terms of designing for its target audience, it was a massive failure.
 
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