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Nathan Drake's looking good (Uncharted 4)

VFX_Veteran

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Uh...

I mean really?

Did you even play Uncharted 1-3?


The Last of Us?


...
Of course I played them.. I'm finishing up TLOU:Remastered now. I still dont' think ND are "god programmers that can do the impossible where many other studios have failed.." A company doesn't get that kind of assumption from me until I actually "see" the game.

Anyway.. UC4 will use TLOU graphics engine (which is dated btw) so I don't expect mind-boggling technology. ND has always had talented artists though -- able to make low-end tech look really good. But that doesn't mean they are the leaders in graphics technology.
 

PLASTICA-MAN

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Of course I played them.. I'm finishing up TLOU:Remastered now. I still dont' think ND are "god programmers that can do the impossible where many other studios have failed.." A company doesn't get that kind of assumption from me until I actually "see" the game.

Anyway.. UC4 will use TLOU graphics engine (which is dated btw) so I don't expect mind-boggling technology. ND has always had talented artists though -- able to make low-end tech look really good.


But that doesn't mean they are the leaders in graphics technology.
Two contradictory in the same sentence. You must really have taken the red and the blue pills at the same time. I just can't imagine the side-effects. God be with you.
 

GribbleGrunger

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Of course I played them.. I'm finishing up TLOU:Remastered now. I still dont' think ND are "god programmers that can do the impossible where many other studios have failed.." A company doesn't get that kind of assumption from me until I actually "see" the game.

Anyway.. UC4 will use TLOU graphics engine (which is dated btw) so I don't expect mind-boggling technology. ND has always had talented artists though -- able to make low-end tech look really good. But that doesn't mean they are the leaders in graphics technology.
So ... it might look like that but it won't really be that.
 

PLASTICA-MAN

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I am sure we will see some gameplay parts in the upcoming days. From the artworks released recently, we can expect very realistic wind phsyics pushing palm tree leaves very violently and awesome strom effects. (look at the released artworks, very promising).
 

VFX_Veteran

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Two contradictory in the same sentence. You must really have taken the red and the blue pills at the same time. I just can't imagine the side-effects. God be with you.
Please don't try to spin my statements into meaningless arguments. The 2 statements aren't contradictory. They are just different approaches that somehow people combine together.

One statement mentions artistic capability. The other statement about technical achievements.

For some reason a lot of GAFers think the two are linked together and they are not. ND has never been known to push graphical technology beyond other studios. Crytek, Frostbite, Unreal Engine, etc.. has been known to do this. ND has always been popular for their artistic direction -- which I have much respect for. But thinking that this artistic advantage will somehow add more/better technical features in their graphics engine compared to those that currently exist while still achieving 60FPS is just asking for disappointment.
 

Shin-Ra

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Anyway.. UC4 will use TLOU graphics engine (which is dated btw) so I don't expect mind-boggling technology. ND has always had talented artists though -- able to make low-end tech look really good. But that doesn't mean they are the leaders in graphics technology.
I'm not sure you read that through. For Drake's Fortune they made the mistake of starting from scratch so they wasted a lot of time waiting for tools to be usable.
 
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So because it's ND, GAFers believe they can do what no other studio has been able to achieve? Hmm.. this will be interesting to follow just for the disappointment alone..

From Uncharted Trilogy to The Last of Us. Naughty Dog have continuously delivered on setting gold standards in cinematic visuals and story telling. Are you trying to play devil's advocate or just being a blind skeptic?
 

VFX_Veteran

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You mean in the same way that Santa Monica used their ps2 engine on ps3 to make GoW 3? The same GoW 3 that ended up being one of the most impressive games of the last generation?
Impressive in what way? Subjectively or Objectively (graphically)? There's a difference. I'm not going to argue subjective opinions.. it's meaningless. I would love to argue tech though. In this case, GoW3 had no technical advantage over say.. CryEngine. Crysis 1 (on PC) was a technical marvel for years and years.. no one could best it until recently. That's what I mean by having a tech advantage.
 

Shin-Ra

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ND has never been known to push graphical technology beyond other studios. Crytek, Frostbite, Unreal Engine, etc.. has been known to do this.
If this were the case I don't think they'd be invited to give tech talks at GDC and the like.
 

RoboPlato

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Of course I played them.. I'm finishing up TLOU:Remastered now. I still dont' think ND are "god programmers that can do the impossible where many other studios have failed.." A company doesn't get that kind of assumption from me until I actually "see" the game.

Anyway.. UC4 will use TLOU graphics engine (which is dated btw) so I don't expect mind-boggling technology. ND has always had talented artists though -- able to make low-end tech look really good. But that doesn't mean they are the leaders in graphics technology.
Iterative engines are nothing new. I remember you were impressed with Shadow Fall and that was an iteration on the KZ2/3 engine and this will have had more time for customization.
 

dolabla

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With Yoshida's and Naughty Dog's comments...I think an Uncharted collection is probably in the works. Could be a good marketing plan, release the collection first half of 2015, include a beta voucher for Uncharted 4 MP before launch.
 

PLASTICA-MAN

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Please don't try to spin my statements into meaningless arguments. The 2 statements aren't contradictory. They are just different approaches that somehow people combine together.

One statement mentions artistic capability. The other statement about technical achievements.

For some reason a lot of GAFers think the two are linked together and they are not. ND has never been known to push graphical technology beyond other studios. Crytek, Frostbite, Unreal Engine, etc.. has been known to do this. ND has always been popular for their artistic direction -- which I have much respect for. But thinking that this artistic advantage will somehow add more/better technical features in their graphics engine compared to those that currently exist while still achieving 60FPS is just asking for disappointment.
Lol, I'd better not try to explain to you
(I am not paid to do that, and even if I am, I won't do that for you)
 

VFX_Veteran

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someone doesn't understand how game engines work
Oh.. so game engines don't get overhauled from scratch anymore to take advantage of new hardware? They just add features on top of existing ones to make the games look stellar? So the CryEngine 1 code is the same as CryEngine 3 code? Or how about UE 1.0 vs. UE 4? It's the same code? Riiiiiighhhhtt..
 

DiresuDR

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Oh.. so game engines don't get overhauled from scratch anymore to take advantage of new hardware? They just add features on top of existing ones to make the games look stellar? So the CryEngine 1 code is the same as CryEngine 3 code? Or how about UE 1.0 vs. UE 4? It's the same code? Riiiiiighhhhtt..
I am willing to bet there is reused code in each of those iteration. Reusing code where appropriate is pretty much how software development works.
 

Nightengale

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Just because the engine's foundation isn't new doesn't mean it cannot be massively improved or enhanced with new tech.

I recall TLOU requiring ND to either build anew or make massive improvement to their lighting components within the engine.

Maybe the engine isn't as flexible or long term as some of the other next gen engines, but it's not like ND is going to make The Sims or Winning Eleven.
 

demolitio

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And here this thread goes with the same debate with some of the same participants. This engine discussion will never go away it seems despite it not going anywhere the last time.

All I can say is that player model is extremely sexy and while I think some people might get too hyped for their own good, I don't see ND disappointing 99% of gamers graphically speaking. Some developers just have the faith of gamers due to their past games, nothing shocking. They aren't perfect and neither will U4, but it's not unreasonable for some people to be really excited and expect top-notch graphics from ND.

I actually have some deja vu right now since this almost reads exactly like the last discussion. The same ND discussion that's happened in the AC: Unity thread, the Dragon Age thread and countless others. I don't think either side is going to cave although I find it odd to look forward to people possibly being disappointed with a game.

We'll have to wait and see, but in the mean-time, I guess I should expect this same discussion to pop up in any thread relating to graphics...lol
 

PLASTICA-MAN

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Oh.. so game engines don't get overhauled from scratch anymore to take advantage of new hardware? They just add features on top of existing ones to make the games look stellar? So the CryEngine 1 code is the same as CryEngine 3 code? Or how about UE 1.0 vs. UE 4? It's the same code? Riiiiiighhhhtt..
Nothing these days is built up from scratch, the only engines built from scratch are the ones at early 90s. Everything that comes after is built over those old engines and each new engine version is built on its previous one. The same goes for Windows OSes.
 

karkaran

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Top secret footage of Elena's U4 idle animation!

Her name is Ashley. In the behind close doors demo that i've saw, a girl and a boy
find her dead in a chair
(could be just pretending or something). I think that this demo is public, so it's not a spoiler.

Edit:

Btw, don't know if you guys know, but Until Dawn is using KZ Shadow Fall's Engine.
 

VFX_Veteran

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Iterative engines are nothing new. I remember you were impressed with Shadow Fall and that was an iteration on the KZ2/3 engine and this will have had more time for customization.
Not *all* engines are iterative. A lot of them are actually overhaul from scratch.. taking the old algorithms/techniques out and replacing them with a newer better foundation of code.
 

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From Uncharted Trilogy to The Last of Us. Naughty Dog have continuously delivered on setting gold standards in cinematic visuals and story telling. Are you trying to play devil's advocate or just being a blind skeptic?
I'm not blind and not playing devil's advocate.

I disagree that ND is the ONLY company that has paved the way on setting gold standards in cinematic visuals. There are other studios that have done the same. You speak as if each Uncharted game blew away every other game (graphically) out of the water.. including games on the PC. That's just .... incorrect imo.
 

Ishida

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I'm not blind and not playing devil's advocate.

I disagree that ND is the ONLY company that has paved the way on setting gold standards in cinematic visuals. There are other studios that have done the same. You speak as if each Uncharted game blew away every other game (graphically) out of the water.. including games on the PC. That's just .... incorrect imo.
On consoles they absolute did, at least. Every time.
 

demolitio

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God... Can't imagine what Santa Monica can made with Kratos model.
That's going to be amazing to see. Part of me wishes they'd move on, part of me just wants to see what Kratos would look like on PS4.

It's going to be interesting to see how this generation develops despite some people insisting on the PS4 being maxed out already although I guess that comes up every generation.
 

PLASTICA-MAN

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That's going to be amazing to see. Part of me wishes they'd move on, part of me just wants to see what Kratos would look like on PS4.

It's going to be interesting to see how this generation develops despite some people insisting on the PS4 being maxed out already although I guess that comes up every generation.
Who told you that the PS4 is maxed out? Ubisoft? :eek:

-_-
 

VFX_Veteran

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I am willing to bet there is reused code in each of those iteration. Reusing code where appropriate is pretty much how software development works.
Reusing code yes.. I know. But going from a function based, single-threaded system written in C to a purely OO based, muti-threaded system, IMO requires an overhaul. Sure, I can take an algorithm for building an octree and reuse that code somewhere else, but the foundation for the graphics engine CAN change. If we look at an engine based on DirectX 7.0, for example and needed to port it to DX11, you'd make a LOT of changes to the point where it would better to just change your foundation.
 

RoboPlato

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Not *all* engines are iterative. A lot of them are actually overhaul from scratch.. taking the old algorithms/techniques out and replacing them with a newer better foundation of code.
That's exactly what an iterative engine is. They're not starting from scratch but they're overhauling almost everything.
 

Shadow_FFVI

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I'm not blind and not playing devil's advocate.

I disagree that ND is the ONLY company that has paved the way on setting gold standards in cinematic visuals. There are other studios that have done the same. You speak as if each Uncharted game blew away every other game (graphically) out of the water.. including games on the PC. That's just .... incorrect imo.
That´s the amazing part. They work within the confines of the limited hardware at their disposal. They do wonders all things considered. they absolutely have released the best looking games of each year they release a game (on consoles).

If they were working on PC, believe me, they would be doing the same.