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[Proelite]

post-apocalyptic, fighting mutants, ... Don't we have enough of those too?

I'd say Uncharted settings, as they are, are quite refreshing and unique.

Doesn't have to be post-apocalytpic. Any universe that offers developers to come up with enemy types besides humans with ARs, snipers, shotguns, and rocket launcher etc is better in my opinion.

I think Naughty Dog should say fuck it with trying to be realistic with Uncharted 3, and have evil magician Atlantean re-surface or something. Of course the story would be WTF, but the enemy variety and firefights can be massively improved.

 

[ultron87]

If Uncharted had been a bad or merely okay game this thread would be the exact opposite with everyone decrying Sony for constricting the poor developer's creative vision.

 

[hsukardi]

People are giving Sony credit for their cynical outlook? They didn't want it more realistic because they thought it would make a better product, but rather that it was the "trend."

Look at Guitar Hero.
Rockband.
Lost Odyssey. JRPGs.


TRENDS DO MATTER.
That's why we hope something sells and the rest of the industry catches onto it.

 

[subversus]

People are giving Sony credit for their cynical outlook? They didn't want it more realistic because they thought it would make a better product, but rather that it was the "trend."

some people like the trend

 

[hamchan]

If Uncharted had been a bad or merely okay game this thread would be the exact opposite with everyone decrying Sony for constricting the poor developer's creative vision.

Definitely. Good thing Uncharted is one of the best games this gen. Well done Sony.

 

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

some people like the trend

Hopefully even those people wouldn't want every project from a publisher to be forced to follow any trend.

Definitely. Good thing Uncharted is one of the best games this gen. Well done Sony.

Well done Naughty Dog, Sony probably wanted a bunch of steroid solders shooting it up in an apocalypse.
ND found a way to something a little bit different through.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

ALSO, before saying Sony, who is Sony? Who pushed this decision? Great conversation in hind sight BUT I would like to know if this was a Phil, Shu, or whomever's decision.

For this particular game, it made sense. Sony has a great stable of game so the fact that there is taint of Sony pushing gritty real games is likely true but that hasn't stopped them from funding the Ratchet's and LBP's ALONGSIDE PSN games that are outside the box.

All the same, Uncharted turned into one of the best new IP's this cycle. You can't knock that or just paint Uncharted itself as an overly realistic game. Again, ND knows what they are doing and have earned their creative freedoms. That does not mean that Sony will just green light any type of game. It has to be within means and ND has the luxury of earning such a place BUT even they know that it can't be some train simulator or Checkers adaptation!

 

[Kimosabae]

Wasn't it Jaffe that said recently that he feels fortunate working for Sony since they tend to give developers the freedom to make what they want?

 

[Cipherr]

Sony made the right push. The game isn't "dark and gritty" like so many other shooters, however. It's still very whimsical, but those elements are grounded in reality (similar to the Indiana Jones and the pulp novels that served as inspiration). I really don't think a fantasy world would have benefited this series at all. It wasn't until this generation that I truly thought of Naughty Dog as a AAA force to be reckoned with.

I cannot tell you how much the bolded grates me. Thats horrible dude. Especially in the context you wrote it in. Makes me want to smash my fucking desk.

 

[Gravijah]

Definitely. Good thing Uncharted is one of the best games this gen. Well done Sony.

just think, it could have been the best game of this gen with dragons.

 

[Sullichin]

I think Uncharted still manages to have its own style without being too gritty. It's not a very dark game, and there's lots of humor in the dialogue.

I'd love for ND to make a fantasy platforming game after they're done with Uncharted though. Or just get the god damn rights to Crash back

 

[Callibretto]

I knew this was the direction that they wanted to take Uncharted but somehow was getting side tracked.

I think Naughty Dog can make up their own minds Sony....

I kinda doubt it. whatever this fantasy game is, it would have turned out to be way different game. I doubt it'll be called Uncharted and stars Nathan Drake. most likely ND have some ideas for their next game after Jak racing, it's a fantasy game, show it to Sony but Sony said they want shooter, so it gos scrapped and they start come up with what will become Uncharted as we know it today.

I don't think this is a Dark Sector situation where the game start out fantasy than change into contemporary setting in mid development.

 

[Auto_aim1]

I am curious how this affects the "Sony does not bother their developers, they just let them make their games" mantra I hear so often.
My guess: Not at all!

Well that should have been obvious with the 3D and Move support in most PS3 exclusives nowadays. There will always be some sort of interference, as they are the ones that fund the games. Although, as long as we get games like LBP and TLG, it doesn't matter really.

 

[plainr_]

Not complaining. After U3 we need something new though.

 

[hamchan]

just think, it could have been the best game of this gen with dragons.

No sir, that is Demon's Souls.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

Not seeing a positive in this scenario.

Ok replace Carrie Underwood with the girl from the visa black card commercial.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Wasn't it Jaffe that said recently that he feels fortunate working for Sony since they tend to give developers the freedom to make what they want?

Yes and this thread is also putting too much weight on this. It's a great conversation though but look at Sony's stable of games, kind of speaks for itself. Yes, you can see the realistic push but then you look at PSN games and their other retail games and you can see the broad vision. Not just shooter driven but with games like LBP and Ratchet too!

 

[Pyrrhus]

Generally speaking, I'm against the studio strong-arming the developers, but I think it worked for the better in this case. If it forced them to make a game where they couldn't have bullshit "zany" characters like Daxter, it was a major victory. The "sassy Dreamworks movie with stuff 12-year-olds think is gritty" aesthetic they were working with from Jak 2 onward was smarmy and completely obnoxious.

 

[Grisby]

Do you guys think they'll move back to more fantasy stuff ala Jak and Dexter next gen? I always thought UC was envisioned as a more 'realistic' TPS.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

Well that should have been obvious with the 3D and Move support in most PS3 exclusives nowadays. There will always be some sort of interference, as they are the ones that fund the games. Although, as long as we get games like LBP and TLG, it doesn't matter really.

Which is funny when you consider that the same people complain about how Nintendo don't mandate Motionplus support or online play in their games.

They take the opposite approach and the good comes with the bad.

 

[Auto_aim1]

Wasn't it Jaffe that said recently that he feels fortunate working for Sony since they tend to give developers the freedom to make what they want?

They probably do, but this is decided at the concept stage before the project is approved.

 

[Dr.Palutena]

Wasn't it Jaffe that said recently that he feels fortunate working for Sony since they tend to give developers the freedom to make what they want?

well it's not like the issue is black or white here. also the key word in your sentence would be tend. it's safe to say Sony would have been more meddling at the launch of a new console than now or prior. Mind you I think executive meddling is bad in general.

Also all things being said I really hope Sony allows more freedom when it comes to theme and genre come next generation. Especially after somewhat middling success this gen with certain shooters. I'd say the Vita both shows a good (sound shapes, gravity rush, ruin, LBP) and "bad" (resistance, killzone but hey no new shooters) precedent of whats to come.

 

[DMeisterJ]

No sir, that is Demon's Souls.

No, it is Lair.

 

[StealthGoblin]

Well that should have been obvious with the 3D and Move support in most PS3 exclusives nowadays. There will always be some sort of interference, as they are the ones that fund the games. Although, as long as we get games like LBP and TLG, it doesn't matter really.

Sony actually had a rather large influence on how LBP turned out. Harrison's vision for it was much bigger than what was initially proposed.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

just think, it could have been the best game of this gen with dragons.

I agree on some things but remember that we have GREAT studios making them types of games to fill our plates. Why complain when Skyrim and Dark Souls are coming from reputable devs who know that field (not saying you said this btw)?

Don't any of you folks think that Sony or MSFT know not to make them types of games or just ignore them because we have Bethesda and FROM/Obsidian to make such games?

It's not so clear cut like some are making it, as with anything in the industry. These things are probably some of the things that either are under NDA or are just things you have to be there to know. Not on internet forums while sitting on couch or bed. Some of the reactions are too knee jerk and I'm surprised more common sense thought hasn't been put into some of the responses.

 

[Acosta]

Screw you Sony.

 

[Man]

Dude doesn't even work at Naughty Dog.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

They probably do, but this is decided at the concept stage before the project is approved.

A good common sense answer!

Any game dev tells you this unless they have an epiphany and see something they can drastically change to make a game better. Most of the time the foundation and direction is clear when the R&D concept stage is complete.

Dude doesn't even work at Naughty Dog.

Hence the knee jerk arm chair reponses like people know it all without actually being there.

And not that the guy is coming off as disgruntled but he is an EX EMPLOYEE lol

 

[[Nintex]]

I am curious how this affects the "Sony does not bother their developers, they just let them make their games" mantra I hear so often.

My guess: Not at all!

No and why would it affect that mantra. Especially since Sony London really wants to develop SingStar after SingStar. The creative leads couldn't be more excited about working with Sony and doing what 'they' want which is to develop sequel after sequel in this great creative franchise.

Wasn't it Jaffe that said recently that he feels fortunate working for Sony since they tend to give developers the freedom to make what they want?

Jaffe is full of shit, that should be quite obvious by now. Say what you want about Retro Studios or Rare but at least they make it perfectly clear that it's the management of their respective owners that decides on what projects are greenlit and developed.

 

[BIONIC-ARRRMMM!!]

Explains why the games are so uninspired.

 

[Callibretto]

Sony actually had a rather large influence on how LBP turned out. Harrison's vision for it was much bigger than what was initially proposed.

I know that Media Molecule original vision is very different from what we got now, but what does Harrison vision that is different from LBP now?

 

[LiquidMetal14]

No and why would it affect that mantra. Especially since Sony London really wants to develop SingStar after SingStar. The creative leads couldn't be more excited about working with Sony and doing what 'they' want which is to develop sequel after sequel in this great creative franchise.


Jaffe is full of shit, that should be quite obvious by now. Say what you want about Retro Studios or Rare but at least they make it perfectly clear that it's the management of their respective owners that decides on what projects are greenlit and developed.

Again though, would you greenlight ND or Sony SM to make the next killer Checkers or Rugby game? NO. It's simple but not really lol

Explains why the games are so uninspired.

Way to contribute to the conversation guy!

So well thought and deeply explained. Not that Uncharted won those awards because of it's lack of inspiration. You, the internet forum dweller, knows his stuff /sarcasm

 

[bwahhhhh]

They probably do, but this is decided at the concept stage before the project is approved.

yeah, this reads more like guidelines for the concepts, not Sony meddling with the development once it's under way. I don't have a problem with that.

 

[Neuromancer]

Bummer. I'd rather have seen what ND might have come up with on their own without Sony's meddling.

 

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

Dude doesn't even work at Naughty Dog.

Why the fuck do people think this is a good counter argument?
He used to work their, he heard and saw thing at the time and in an interview shared some of those things.

 

[Orayn]

So short-haired or bald men with guns is a publisher-enforced standard, not just a follow the leader type of deal. Good to know.

 

[Plinko]

I'd like to see what others have already said--Naughty Dog gets a hold of Crash or something like that and goes all out with it.

I'm surprised people haven't started talking about ND "milking" the Uncharted series yet.

 

[Shadow of the BEAST]

I dont know what type of game they had planned.

But i can say this. The fantasy elements are the worst part of the uncharted series.

 

[_Alkaline_]

Definitely. Good thing Uncharted is one of the best games this gen.

It is?

 

[TONX]

Explains why the games are so uninspired.

Jesus Christ.

 

[duckroll]

but the concepts were much more far out. One was a forest world where the antagonists lived underground.

I dunno if he realizes it, but there's nothing far out about that description. He just described... Uncharted 1.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

yeah, this reads more like guidelines for the concepts, not Sony meddling with the development once it's under way. I don't have a problem with that.

Bah, I agree and wish more would properly process the good posts in this thread. I hope ND reads this and knows that their GREAT TALENT alongside some direction by Sony (I don't know how much of it other than not letting them make a train simulator or Checkers game this goes for though).

 

[ProfessorMoran]

Dude doesn't even work at Naughty Dog.

It looks like he's some sort of contractor, he worked on Infamous 1 & 2.

 

[ultron87]

But i can say this. The fantasy elements are the worst part of the uncharted series.

I almost feel like all the crappy bullet sponge enemies are the result of trying to keep things at least somewhat believable in terms of the world they created.

If they could go full bore fantasy they'd be able to do far more interesting stuff.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

I'd like to see what others have already said--Naughty Dog gets a hold of Crash or something like that and goes all out with it.

I'm surprised people haven't started talking about ND "milking" the Uncharted series yet.

3 games in 6 years isn't exactly milking it. 1 VITA game not made by them too but I won't give you that one

ND proved that they are an elite dev in the PS1 days, have to disagree with your Dark

 

[[Nintex]]

Again though, would you greenlight ND or Sony SM to make the next killer Checkers or Rugby game? NO. It's simple but not really lol

What gets made is always decided by higher ups and managers from the respective studios. EA did the same thing with Dead Space and Mirror's Edge, so their developers would say: "Yeah EA is so great to work with they're giving us a chance to work on these awesome projects that we want to make!". The truth is somewhere in between, I think most of Naughty Dog could live with the decision that Uncharted was to be more gritty and realistic but when they say "we have full 100% control of what we make and how we do it!" it's just not true.

 

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

I'd like to see what others have already said--Naughty Dog gets a hold of Crash or something like that and goes all out with it.

I'm surprised people haven't started talking about ND "milking" the Uncharted series yet.

If it gets milked it will be because of the IP holder not the developer, just look at what Bungie had to do to get a way from the Halo franchise.

 

[Plinko]

3 games in 6 years isn't exactly milking it. 1 VITA game not made by them too but I won't give you that one

Yet it happens to be when other series do the same thing?

And, yes, you've got to include the Vita game as well (although that's not ND).

 

[AbsoluteZero]

Fuck me a fantasy Naughty Dog could would have been amazing.

Dammit Sony.

 

[Plinko]

If it gets milked it will be because of the IP holder not the developer, just look at what Bungie had to do to get a way from the Halo franchise.

I agree completely with this. ND is a quality developer.